Can you explain the Incantrix?

[raistlin807]

Ok, I am going to reveal the magnitude of my ignorance once again by asking why everyone keeps saying that the Incantrix class is so awesome. I looked it over and saw nothing all that wonderful. Perhaps someone out there can save me from my blasphemy.

[Fourth Tempter]

Are you looking at the 3.0 or the 3.5 version of the prestige class? Both are very good, but the 3.5 version is frighteningly good. If you can not understand why cheaper metamagic and free metamagic are incredibly powerful, I do not know that we--or, indeed, anyone--can help you.

[Tellah]

Ok, I am going to reveal the magnitude of my ignorance once again by asking why everyone keeps saying that the Incantrix class is so awesome. I looked it over and saw nothing all that wonderful. Perhaps someone out there can save me from my blasphemy.

It's better than a Wizard. It's better than a Wizard.

[Tokiko Mima]

Link: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010803

Well, assuming you started as a Diviner, and dropped Evocation, you could then take Incantatrix and also be a specialist Abjurer by dropping the Enchantment school. That more or less evens your spells/day with a same level sorcerer.

You get all the bonus feats that a wizard would, making familiar abilities the only class feature you lose.

The See Ethereal and Strike Ethereal are marginally useful, but the bonuses to dispel checks and spell Resistance vs. outsiders and the sudden metamagic and improved metamagic are VERY useful to a lot of the spells you'll cast.

And there are probably fun ways to abuse the Drain Item level 10 class feature that I haven't thought of. Anyone know of a spell that creates a temporary charged magic item?

[Fourth Tempter]

That is the 3.0 version linked above. The 3.5 version, in the Player's Guide to Faerun, is significantly more powerful.

[Tokiko Mima]

Ah! Well, then yeah. I would totally take Incantatrix then. :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Simth]

Ok, I am going to reveal the magnitude of my ignorance once again by asking why everyone keeps saying that the Incantrix class is so awesome. I looked it over and saw nothing all that wonderful. Perhaps someone out there can save me from my blasphemy.

It partly depends on what other sources you have available, but basically, the class kinda breaks power caps.

A Wizard-20 can have an Empowered (+2), Quickened (+4) Fireball (base 3rd), in a 9th level spell slot, and Maximize it via rod. A Wizard-10/Incantatrix-10 can have an Empowered (+2-1), Quickened (+4-1) Fireball in a 7th level spell slot, and Maximize it via rod. The Incantatrix gets the effect two full spell levels earlier (and thus can be throwing around 60+1/2 10d6 Fireballs at a moment's thought as a Wizard-5/Incantatrix-8; 13th, as soon as the Incantatrix gets 7th level spells).

That alone is strong.

With Instant Metamagic, and many sources, though, it gets a bit over the top. The traditional metamagic feat to use is Persistant Spell. Normally, you wouldn't be able to Persist any spell over 3rd level pre-epic (so you could Persist Detect Magic, Shield, Expiditous Retreat, Detect Thoughts, Mirror Image, Arcane Sight and the like, but not (Lesser) Globe of Invulnerability, Fire Shield, the Symbol line, Mislead, Shapechange, or Time Stop. The Incantatrix-7+ can, provided the Incantatrix is high enough up to have the spell at all.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Sadly, Time Stop is not persistable. Temporal acceleration, the psionic version, is, however. And I agree - persistent shapechange is made of win.

[Tokiko Mima]

Oh wow! 3.5 Incantatrix is a lot better than Wizard. Even more bonus feats than a Wizard gets, the ability to steal an active spells effect from it's caster, apply metamagic to a spell after you cast it, and you get the instant/improved metamagic features still.

[Quellian-dyrae]

There's also the part where you get an item of Spellcraft +20 and use your Cooperative Metamagic ability to persist 3 + Int Mod of your cleric friend's best personal augments. Or, better still, let your cleric friend cast a bunch of group augments and persist them (entire party walking around all day with Recitation, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Mass Shield of Faith, Mass Spell Resistance, Holy Aura...) I think it also works using Metamagic Effect to persist 3 + Int Mod of your best augments, although I may be misinterpreting the term "effect".

[raistlin807]

Ok, I can see how it could potentially be useful, HOWEVER I don't like specilization in the best light and giving up even more schools of magic just makes me afeared. Maybe I'm too conservative but I don't think I will go for it. Thanks to all of you who knew things I didn't.

[raistlin807]

Ok, I can see how it could potentially be useful, HOWEVER I don't like specilization in the best light and giving up even more schools of magic just makes me afeared. Maybe I'm too conservative but I don't think I will go for it. Thanks to all of you who knew things I didn't.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I never got why Incanttrix wasn't female only.

The main problem I see with Incantrix is that people take it completely outside the fluff. As a campaign setting specific Prc for a limited number of people its flavourful. As it is actually implemented it's just cheese.

In previous editions of Forgotten Realms Incantrix existed as a select all female club of anti-outsider magic users who specialised in metamagic. Then for 3rd edition when metamagic feats came in the decieded to make an Incantrix Prc to specialise in them. The 3rd edition version is doesn't talk about the 2nd edition fluff and doesn't have any roleplaying requirements but still has anti-outsider abilities.

They should have made a generic metamagic specialist, then this would be less annoying.

I know people talk about classes not making characters but Prcs are specificaly designed to make characters. That's why they're Prestige classes, if you're in one everyone knows it.

[Jack_Simth]

Sadly, Time Stop is not persistable.
By FAQ interpertation, that is true. By literal reading of the rules themselves, it's a personal range non-instantaneous spell, and quite the valid target... you'll just normally need a 15th level spell slot for it without Divine Metamagic cheese, Incantatrix cheese, or similar.

Temporal acceleration, the psionic version, is, however.
If you go by the FAQ reasoning, temporal acceleration isn't Persistable either. With the actual rules as written in the book, it would be.

And I agree - persistent shapechange is made of win.Yeah. Persistant Time Stop - if your DM lets you pull it off - is even more Win - you get 24 hours to rest, prepare spells, craft stuff.... and if you prepare another Time Stop to Persist, you can do the same again, and again, and again.... until you've got exactly what you need to deal with the current, frozen situation.

But that's cheese upon cheese, worthy of a particular 1st level Paladin build.

[Emperor Tippy]

Well Shapechange also gives you a full heal each round as a free action. You won't die unless they can 1 hit you..

[Arbitrarity]

Where does is say 3.0 Incantatrix is female only?

If it's the use of female pronouns, most classes do that.
I.e. female only paladins, from the SRD:

Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus

And 3.5 incantatrix has the flavor. The metamagic flavor. Guess what 3.5 incantatrix's use?

EDIT: Ah, sorry. Misread. Obviously I need to brush up on my FR history.

[Talya]

Where does is say 3.0 Incantatrix is female only?


It doesn't. That's the problem. Incantrix is a female descriptor, like Dominatrix. Incantor would be the male version of it.

(But then, by that reasoning, Sorceror would only be male. Sorceress is not a class...)

[Tokiko Mima]

I think the correct spelling is Incantatrix. There are very few single gender only classes out there, and the requirement is meant for flavor. In general D&D tries to push gender equality with it's classes, as it wouldn't be making a statement tainted sexism to have a 'Ultimate Warlock' PrC with a requirement that says 'Only men have the mental capacity to handle this class. Sorry all you stupid, weak girls' or to a lesser extent, vice versa. The interesting thing, I think, is that in D&D women on average are stronger than men, since they have the same average STR load carryoing/lifting capacities but lower average body weight.

As far as sorcerer goes, when you have a female sorcerer the title sorceress is usually assumed. For clarity reasons most people just leave it Sorcerer because it's easier to reference that way.

[Lemur]

The fluff for Incantatrix explains that most members of the prestige class are female. However, it goes on to explain that the few men who take the class are referred to as Incantatars. So that should clear up any naming disputes.

In any case, the general feeling I get from most of D&D, especially 3.x edition, is that it avoids limiting character concepts by gender whenever possible. The times that it does, it seems to be based on pre-established cultural fluff, such as the Hathran. Since the Rashemi being led by female witches is a key part of their identity, male hathrans wouldn't make sense. Incantatrixes, however, aren't from any specific culture, at least in Faerun.

[Closet_Skeleton]

In OA they made Battle Maiden female only for pure fluff reasons (It could have been Battle Lad) despite the fact that if you made the class non-Rokugan it wouldn't matter, but that book also had Eunuch Warlock so the designers were probably more open.

It might be a writer preference thing. Some writers are okay making a female only Hathran while others aren't.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Incantitrix is just WIN. Thru and Thru. One of the best classes to come out of Faerun; and it was made BETTER in the 3.5 version... that in and of itself is awesomeness. Name another class that was made better by 3.5 rules. That is a challenge. :smallbiggrin:

[Arbitrarity]

Planar Shepard! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=709233)

With the time traits, he WINS. Badly. And shapechange/polymorph abuse. And... yeah.

[Adrayll]

What? Wizard 10/Incantrix 10? You forgot your Metaphysical spellshaper (with strongheart vest soulmeld feat)!

[The Glyphstone]

Great Modthulhu: Thread necromancy.