Deathbed Trope in DnD

[Kanthalion]

Everyone has seen it in some form of media: The ally, the old wise dude, even the enemy that, with their dying breath, give a key piece of information that the protagonist needs to complete their quest.

But how can you use this dramatic tool in DnD without cheating when the players can just pour a potion down their throat or cast a cure spell and bam! the NPC is good as new?

[Draconium]

In D&D, dying of nothing but old age is a real thing that can happen. There's nothing you can do to stop it, and you can't bring the person back if they just got to old. This only works on mortal races, of course.

[Kanthalion]

In D&D, dying of nothing but old age is a real thing that can happen. There's nothing you can do to stop it, and you can't bring the person back if they just got to old. This only works on mortal races, of course.

True enough. But howabout someone dying from combat? The old "Tell my girl I love her..."

[Draconium]

There are a few effects that state that if they kill someone, it utterly destroys them, no chance of coming back (except maybe divine intervention). However, I can't recall which effects exactly do that, outside of a bit of homebrew, and I know homebrew isn't the only option for it.

[Seto]

First and best possibility : have a (tacit or explicit) agreement with players that PCs and important NPCs get death scenes and last words : when it's assured that they'll die (they've hit -10 HP), they're allowed a last sentence before kicking it.

Second possibility : if the first doesn't work, unilaterally do it and turn down the player's efforts to save the NPC. Either don't leave room for action "As he dies, he mutters a few last words". Or "His souls departs to the afterlife, but not before he's told you the last bit of the prophecy". Or just less subtly "He says stuff. And then he dies. No, you don't have time to make him drink your potion, he's already dead."
Of course I'd advise against it and the players will probably be mad if you don't do it subtly, and then there's always Speak with Dead or Raise Dead. But if you're just worried about the NPC not dying, this can do the trick.

[Vhaidara]

I go with -10 being "Mortally wounded, beyond the scope of healing magic". They might not be dead yet, but you can't save them at that point. They're too far gone.

[Troacctid]

Use Constitution poison instead of HP damage. Because nobody ever prepares Neutralize Poison. If for some reason they did prepare Neutralize Poison, or if they invested enough in the Heal skill to treat the poison, then good for them, they deserve to save the dude's life.

[Kanthalion]

Second possibility : if the first doesn't work, unilaterally do it and turn down the player's efforts to save the NPC. Either don't leave room for action "As he dies, he mutters a few last words". Or "His souls departs to the afterlife, but not before he's told you the last bit of the prophecy". Or just less subtly "He says stuff. And then he dies. No, you don't have time to make him drink your potion, he's already dead."
Of course I'd advise against it and the players will probably be mad if you don't do it subtly, and then there's always Speak with Dead or Raise Dead. But if you're just worried about the NPC not dying, this can do the trick.

Yeah, this is what I was meaning by "cheating" and the thing I was wanting to avoid doing. I'd feel like I was railroading them and they would not like it much.


First and best possibility : have a (tacit or explicit) agreement with players that PCs and important NPCs get death scenes and last words : when it's assured that they'll die (they've hit -10 HP), they're allowed a last sentence before kicking it.


I go with -10 being "Mortally wounded, beyond the scope of healing magic". They might not be dead yet, but you can't save them at that point. They're too far gone.

I can't believe this has never occurred to me! I don't have an agreement with my players about it, since obviously I've never done it, but I really like this and I don't think I'd get push back about it.

[Vhaidara]

I can't believe this has never occurred to me! I don't have an agreement with my players about it, since obviously I've never done it, but I really like this and I don't think I'd get push back about it.

To be fair, I also have a standing houserule that players and major NPCs (allies and enemies) can only be killed by wipe or coup de grace. Nothing is worse than investing several hours into a character just to get crit down.

[heavyfuel]

Use Constitution poison instead of HP damage. Because nobody ever prepares Neutralize Poison. If for some reason they did prepare Neutralize Poison, or if they invested enough in the Heal skill to treat the poison, then good for them, they deserve to save the dude's life.

Or maybe someone was smart enough to get a Scroll of it. It costs 375 gp for the divine version. More than afordable when at lv 7 (when the average party would normaly have access to the spell in the first place).

Alternatively, most Clerics will have Divine Insight prepared. Tied with a high Wis score (say, +4), the bonus (+10 at lv 5), I say the Cleric has a fair chance of Healing with the skill. Even more so if the DM allows you to take 10/20, which there's no reason they wouldn't, especially if you used a Delay Poison scroll (only 150 gp) beforehand.

[Milo v3]

I'd use the disease and poison rules from Unchained if I wanted to try something like this... but it doesn't really work in combat.


In D&D, dying of nothing but old age is a real thing that can happen. There's nothing you can do to stop it, and you can't bring the person back if they just got to old. This only works on mortal races, of course.

Not even That is true, you can use reincarnation to cheat old age.

[Nibbens]

Everyone has seen it in some form of media: The ally, the old wise dude, even the enemy that, with their dying breath, give a key piece of information that the protagonist needs to complete their quest.

But how can you use this dramatic tool in DnD without cheating when the players can just pour a potion down their throat or cast a cure spell and bam! the NPC is good as new?

Make sure that this situation is one where the PCs absolutely will not want to have this guy back around. If the revive him, he'll nearly kill them a second time - and probably will kill them because they're lower on HP and resources now.

[Crake]

I'd use the disease and poison rules from Unchained if I wanted to try something like this... but it doesn't really work in combat.



Not even That is true, you can use reincarnation to cheat old age.

That only works if you actually kill them before they die of old age, once they die of old age, reincarnate will no longer save them. That, and not all people want to live eternally on the material plane, some actually want to go on to the afterlife and enjoy the rewards of a life well lived. If you were to murder someone on their deathbed just so you could reincarnate them, unless they seriously didn't want to die, I would say they wouldn't accept the reincarnate.

Personally, I've only used the deathbed trope once in my game, but it was done to extremely great effect. One of the characters was an alchemist, who created an experimental potion of immortality. It was flawed however, and didn't work properly (functioned as the delay death spell, essentially granting temporary immortality). Another character, the alchemist's partner, had learned of this from her, and stole it to use it in a final confrontation with a demon from his past (in this case the demon was actually an epic abomination, a Xixecal). The character used the potion, along with other forms of immunity against the creature's more deadly spells, essentially making him immune to death against the creature... for a duration, but that was all he wanted. He knew he was likely going to die by the end of it all, but he had come to peace with that. The other characters all discovered his plans, and went out to try and stop him, but by the time they caught up, he had already engaged it in battle. The alchemist rushed over to him, just as the Xixecal issued out a blasphemy that would have killed her, were it not for a quick invulnerability sphere (fluffed as Ice, since the character was an ice mage) encased her and saved her. The other characters were quickly engaged by the white dragons that accompany the Xixecal.

By the time the others had dealt with the white dragons, the fight was over, but the character's wounds were immense. There was no amount of healing that could be done to him to save him in time (he was in something like the -400 range, so it would have taken something like 3 heal spells just to bring him back to living status, and the party had no healers that could do that level of healing anyway). He had just enough time to whisper sorry to his beloved, that this wasn't how he wanted her to remember him, a dead man walking, and that he hadn't wanted her to see him die before her eyes, before the potion wore off.

It was a very sombre moment around the table, everyone was silent. They had no one capable of resurrection magic, despite being level 13-15, and in my world, there are practically no NPCs available to perform that kind of magic. They decided to bury him in his ice fortress at the north pole, on the eve of midwinter (this had taken place during that day, the coldest day of the year), before returning to their city, the mood much darker than had been expected for what essentially equated to christmas eve in my setting. No longer would his laughter grace the guild halls, or his ice magic fill the guild members with wonder at his magnificent (and occasionally comedic) sculptures. They didn't tell most of the guild, but all of the senior members knew, and it was heartbreaking.

[Psyren]

Talking is a free action, curing them is a standard. Enough time to deliver the plothook, not enough to be saved.

Sure it doesn't account for quickened heals, but who's going to waste those on a NPC? :smalltongue:

[LudicSavant]

There are tons of effects that cause permanent death, or, failing that, death that is unusually difficult to resurrect from.

See also Speak with Dead.

[Crake]

There are tons of effects that cause permanent death, or, failing that, death that is unusually difficult to resurrect from.

See also Speak with Dead.

I think this is more about having inevitable death, where characters can speak before dying, rather than about being able to bring people back from the dead, or casting speak with dead. A jerky, animated corpse does't really give the same feeling.

[Uncle Pine]

In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn’t your turn. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#speak)

[Aharon]

Xixecal Story

That sounds really awesome, I like it :smallbiggrin:

Out of interest: Did you homebrew the Xixecal to be weaker? It's CR 36, so characters at the levels where getting sufficient Heals is a problem probably can't deal with it unless you added some thematic weaknesses? Even the Old Whites alone are CR 15 each...

@OP:
A sad reality is that there are extremely few characters that have access to ressurrection, and it is very expensive. Yes, there are ways (Revivify at 5th, Reincarnate at 7th), but they are not without monetary cost - you may use them on close team members, but not on every person that you happen to like.

[Crake]

That sounds really awesome, I like it :smallbiggrin:

Out of interest: Did you homebrew the Xixecal to be weaker? It's CR 36, so characters at the levels where getting sufficient Heals is a problem probably can't deal with it unless you added some thematic weaknesses? Even the Old Whites alone are CR 15 each...

@OP:
A sad reality is that there are extremely few characters that have access to ressurrection, and it is very expensive. Yes, there are ways (Revivify at 5th, Reincarnate at 7th), but they are not without monetary cost - you may use them on close team members, but not on every person that you happen to like.

there was some significant planning on the behalf of the player. He spent a long time discovering the various abilities it had, coming up with ways to counter them all through various magic items crafted for the specific purpose of keeping him alive (and gave them all ring of counterspelling-like effects, so they would counterspell any targetted greater dispel magics at them). I let him research a custom version of mantle of the fiery spirit which let him take away the Xixecal's cold subtype permanently, and added cold to the things that bypassed it's regeneration (but removed fire), then he began using his iceshaping magic to encase it in ice (he was using a snow based variant of the sandshaper). It took quite a few rounds before he was able to completely encase it, but I ruled once it was completely encased, it was killed by it's own cold. As for the dragons, one of the characters was actually a dragon ascendant great wyrm (which, in my campaign setting, are called dragon lords, rulers of particular elements or things, for example bahamut would be the dragon lord of good, tiamat of evil, this character was the dragon lord of fire, and one of the dragons with the xixecal was the dragon lord of cold) and began fighting 4 of the 5 dragons, leaving the level 15 party to fight the CR 15 dragon :P.

You may be thinking, hold on, sandshapers get the ability to get resurrected when buried in sand as their capstone, and the characters were level 15...... Yeah, he came back that evening and had the dance he'd promised his partner at midnight on midwinter's eve :smallcool: The happiness on the faces of the other players when that happened was just as priceless :smallbiggrin:

Also worth noting that the sufficient heals wasn't from lack of levels, it was from lack of anyone being able to actually cast that spell :smalltongue:

[Inevitability]

In a 5e campaign I am DM'ing, the party met this black dragon. They weren't strong enough to fight it and ended up just trying to not anger it too much, eventually forging some kind of unspoken pact of nonaggression (important, as the party's main base was only a few miles from the dragon's lair).

Then, when the dragon went missing, they entered its cave, fought their way past some demons, and saw one of the main villains standing next to the dragon, horribly mutilated but still alive.

The villain grinned, drew a knife, and cut the dragon's vitals out in a single stroke before teleporting away.

The party, whose highest level divine-caster at the moment was a 15th-level ranger, did not have the magic to bring the dragon's organs back, and was forced to accept that it was going to die. It allowed me to get some plot-relevant information in without having to give the PC's an overpowered ally. I did allow them to delay its death a bit through use of healing spells, though.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Have their ghost linger briefly, to deliver their last words even as it fades away.

[Elder_Basilisk]

1. Take a hint from greek tragedy: use a messenger to describe the death which occurred offscreen.

If needed, the messenger could be a bound creature summoned specifically for this purpose. "If you are hearing this message, then I am already dead."

2. Formal execution, Braveheart or True Grit style. Allow the PCs to be in the audience but if the power levels are appropriate and the countermeasures against interference are visibly in place and it is clear that you are not running a Robin Hood campaign where the players are expected to save the guy, you can have his "deathbed" speech be some formal, "last words."

3. Written last message. This is a staple of thriller fiction. "My lawyer/a friend/someone who can't be easily got to has a sealed envelope with instructions to deliver it to X, Y, Z if something happens to me." The summoned messenger from 1 is probably a variant of this too.

4. Magical last words. For my last standard action I cast... whispering wind. Your players get the message, but are too far away to do anything about it.

5. How much do you really need that trope anyway? It's pretty stale by now and can be rather contrived anyway. Just let the dude live if the players want to go to all that trouble.

[Jay R]

Rocks fall. Old wise dude dies.

And then refuses to return. As soon as he died, he realized how much pain he had been in, and won't return to it.

[AlanBruce]

This happened in a 3.5 game I ran several months ago.

The party's DMM Persist cleric/druid had gone missing for over a week in a large city. The party met new allies (new players that joined the game) and together, they divined where the missing priest might be.

For the older party members, this man was very important- he had been their ally for almost a year IC, braving numerous challenges in far off lands and, although the PC had quite a temper, he always pulled through for his friends. So, they convinced the new group, which included a Beguiler, Dervish and a Druid, along with her warbeast fleshraker companion to delve into the city sewers.

Now, the original party- a conjurer, sorceress, bard, and an archer cleric, along with the new PCs were a formidable fighting force. What horrors they found in the bowels of the city were summarily disposed of in a matter of seconds.

Then, they reached the hidden facility.

Braving a few puzzles and finding cryptic notes, the party found their lost ally. However, the man had been subjected to a multitude of experiments by a Mad Transmuter, long thought dead.

The DMM cleric begged them to leave, that this place was dangerous and that he didn't have much time, but his old allies refused to acknowledge his words and began moving into the grand lobby where the DMM cleric stood.

That's when the Mad Transmuter caused the dozen of experiments in his body to trigger...

What ensued was a terrifying fight as the Fleshraker was thrown across the lobby, bringing down several columns in its wake.

The Dervish was cut in two by the mutated druid's scythe.

The Beguiler was chucking mind affecting spells at the druid, but because of his impossibly high Will save, they proved for naught.

The sorceress attempted to dispel the over 20 buffs on him, by virtue of the Transmuter, amongst them, the dreaded Greater Blink.

The bard was calling on the Words of Creation, so as to have a better chance to drop her former ally.

The other druid was calling bears to be sacrificed by the mutated druid with his scythe- better them than her.

The conjurer was tossing his most powerful force orbs at his ally, but the Transmuter had made him hardy- this man was a warrior as a Human. As a mutant, he was destruction personified.

It would be the archer cleric, calling on the one Wish he saved from meeting a powerful Marid, that he was able to pierce the druid's chest with a special arrow, removing several buffs and allowing the party to gang up on him, finally dropping him.

A short lived victory, however, as the Transmuter sent an army of her mutants to finish them off, as the Conjurer teleported everyone back to their base of operations in the city in the nick of time.

The party placed the nearly dead PC on a cot and although they did try to heal him (and as the other druid suggested, Last Breath him), the mutated PC asked only for a dagger, which an NPC granted the dying man and proceeded to cut open his abdomen, releasing a hideous parasite that had latched onto his spinal chord and allowed the Transmuter full control over him.

And even as the party offered to heal him, the cleric refused, stating that had gone through too much already and that fighting his own friends was a sin he would not be able to bear, preferring to watch over them from above, as a spirit or star.

The conjurer took the body far away, to be buried in the woods where he trained to become a druid and as for the rest of the party, they got a bunch of important information the cleric had in his bag, which they have been safekeeping for the right moment.

The player thanked me later for giving his PC such an end.

[Kanthalion]

5. How much do you really need that trope anyway? It's pretty stale by now and can be rather contrived anyway. Just let the dude live if the players want to go to all that trouble.

All good suggestions and if it comes up again, I may use one or more of them, but I ended up using the -10 gets to say something before he dies. (the players do not have, or currently have access to, resurrection) as to why?

We just finished Red Hand of Doom and the party fled from the aspect of Tiamat but not before the one player who could use the teleport scroll they had to get them out went and died. But he didn't die. Due to his warlock deal with a devil, he ended up being reborn near enough Brindol to tell them about what was going on. So he decided to send Immerstal to get them while he stayed in town to help prepare for what they expect to be coming.

Anyhow, we just added a new player who is also a caster, so I decided it would be dramatically fun and give a good bonding thing for him to join the party and the party to accept him if he came across Immerstal on the brink of death, (his first teleport went awry and he was on his way there on foot --well, not on foot: he summoned his mount-- when he was waylaid) who would give him the scroll and instructions to where the party is before dying.

[Twurps]

First and best possibility : have a (tacit or explicit) agreement with players that PCs and important NPCs get death scenes and last words : when it's assured that they'll die (they've hit -10 HP), they're allowed a last sentence before kicking it.


Illumians actually get a 'last sentence' racial trait called 'final utterance'.

[Roog]

You could play with a general rule that anyone who wants (including PCs) gets a chance to say their final words in the round (or so) after they die.
That way, the final words come after any attempts to save them.