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Seatbelt
2007-05-23, 01:23 AM
I got my first kill tonight. I feel kinda bad about it. I have 3 players, two of which are great "dice" players and know how to make and run a good character. The other one isint. He knows the rules, but does dumb things, and he was playing a spellcaster, so he's been doing dumb things since the first tactical encounter. The other two understand character death is a normal thing, so of course I manage to kill the one who takes it kinda hard. Whats worse is that this is the first character he's made that has any kind of real effort put in to back story at all, and he put a fair amount of effort into optimization for levels 6-12 (his cleric would have sucked at lvl 20, but would have been great in this adventure, which was his goal). What makes this EVEN WORSE is that this was only our second session, and 5th tactical encounter.

Here is the story: We're playing Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, with some rules tweaks borrowed from the Ravenloft PHB. This is a lethal module. CR2 zombies have 42HP for crying out loud. This is not a module that forgives dumb mistakes. They're in the cellar of a church, fighting a blaspheme. They've neutralized all the other baddies, so everyone is a little beaten up and low on spells. The Blaspheme is damaged, but with 147HP it might as well be untouched.

This Cleric has the lightbringer variant where he deals straight damage to undead instead of turning them (1D6 per cleric level, will save DC 10+cleric level+cha for half), and he took extra turning twice (to use some of the less broken turn attempt feats). He is perfectly set up to sit there, pulsing his Lathandarbeacon each round for good damage. ESPECIALLY since he has 5HP left. After each of the Paladins get hammered on hardcore, he has the brilliant idea to step up to it and cast cure moderate wounds spell on the Blaspheme. Now this thing is dumb, but smart enough to know that clerics = bad. And he only has to roll a 3 to hit the cleric. And he does +13 damage on a hit. The party had already guessed those stats. This was known. So I have to kill him. Both because it's what the monster would do, and to show him that this is lethal, and you cant be an idiot in a lethal adventure.

So short of rolling a 1, there is no way I cant kill him. So ofcourse I do, and he moped around while the rest of the party killed the thing and looted the place. We were playing at his house BTW, so hecouldnt even leave. There is no way to raise his character either. There are no clerics in the area of high enough level to raise him. I could probably fake something with the Vistani fortunetellers.. But anyone powerful enough to raise the dead is also powerful enough to try to take on Strahd, so it kinda destroys the point of the game.

I just feel bad, because he's being all mopey. On the other hand, I just got my first PC kill so I'm all w00t!ed. Does anyone else want to share a particularly unfortunate/your first PC kill?

Rejakor
2007-05-23, 02:27 AM
I TPK'ed the entire 2nd level party with a half-health grimlock.

Hide Check + wait for them to pass + Mage goes down first, + squeezing quarters, + the cleric not wearing armour + crit taking down the fighter = TPK. If you told him that it was a lethal module, too bad. Why the hell would he run up to the thing if he can just pulse for damage each round? Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Rincewind
2007-05-23, 02:46 AM
Take a shower and try talking to some of your trusted friends, but try to keep it from your family for now... And many DMs today get PCs killed, so don't feel alone... :eek:

Jasdoif
2007-05-23, 02:51 AM
On the other hand, I just got my first PC kill so I'm all w00t!ed....and why is that?

Renx
2007-05-23, 03:35 AM
Well... at 5HP the B has to make 5+con damage to kill your cleric automatically (assuming con 12, 17)... so if he rolls badly on his weapon roll the cleric might have been saveable. But still, you have a bad guy right there so a Heal attempt might not be the best thing to try :P

And still, he just saw a bunch of (I'm assuming armoured) paladins get whacked and still tried. Not that great an idea, and you were well within your rights to have the kill attempt succeed. If he gets all annoyed and emo, doing even more foolish stunts, that's bad and you should have a talk with him, but he just might get a clue and start thinking before an action.

Psiwave
2007-05-23, 09:26 AM
Don't feel too bad, it was a silly tactic on his part. besides, did the PC's feel bad when they killed your first lovingly selected NPCs? (sobs, lost in the memories of goblins 1 through 7)

Ikkitosen
2007-05-23, 09:45 AM
If it's gonna ruin your game then have him raised somehow (item? ghost? some unique power? you're the DM). However I think THAT might ruin your module, since the PCs will come to think that you'll save them, and in Ravenloft they need to feel anything BUT safe to have fun.

So, he's dead. Crap happens. Help him make a slightly more optimised character for next time and get on with it.

goat
2007-05-23, 10:02 AM
Reincarnate! It'll be awesome.

He could be a bugbear cleric, then he might survive a bit longer.

Threeshades
2007-05-23, 10:04 AM
I had 2 unfortunate PC kills too.
It is very weird because both of these kills have pretty much the same circumstances: The PCs killed were both monks, and both belonged to the same player, also both died in an encounter which i merely tried to make a little bit stronger because those before were all much too weak, and both characters were killed because of an unfortunate critical hit.

One of them was in a lvl3 party. A Tiefling Monk getting hit critically by a redcap. The other was a lvl 8 party, an ibixian monk getting hit critically by a jumping bulette.

The lvl 8 party ended after the fight with the bulette. i was only a one-weekend-party because 2 players werent there. In the other one i had to give the party a side quest because they couldnt afford a raise dead, in the other, if we ever go on with it, the NPC cleric accompanying the party will just call a higher level cleric to get him raised.

the_tick_rules
2007-05-23, 10:31 AM
a monk in our party got totally killed by a fireburst from a warmage. sometimes PC's die. what fun is it if you are certain of your immortality?

Tormsskull
2007-05-23, 10:50 AM
What I find makes players more accepting of their character's deaths is that someone in the world actually cares. If the other PCs just shrug and forget about the dead PC it can really hit hard on the dead one.

One of the times I had a player who roleplayed an excellent character. He was an all-around good player, not selfish, played as a team member, etc. When his character died due to an unfortunate critical hit, the NPCs that he had previously helped out built a statue of him in their town and planted flowers around it.

The player of that dead PC thought that the statue was really cool and his next character also tried to interact with the town's NPCs a lot.

lillitheris
2007-05-23, 11:26 AM
Player deaths happen.

It's not an unfortunate thing, it's just part of the game. I've been one shotted by things before and as a GM, I've had that unfortunate series of events that happened to kill a player when no one, not even the GM expects it.

Those unfortunate series of events are the ones that you feel bad for, freakish luck.

However, player stupidity should never be greeted with anything other than pride for the hope that you've shown them the error of their ways and the hope that they'll know better next time and become a better player.

If you decide you want to see if Strahd has nuts and run to kick him in them, you shouldn't later have the nerve to be surprised when you find yourself in the afterlife with your own head in your hands.

If they still don't learn their lesson than it is clear that they need to suffer the pains of their own stupidity.

If they still don't learn, then they need to go play Call of Cthuhlu for awhile. Nothing will clear up a nasty inability to part with character quicker than going through 11 characters in two month period over a summer of playing CoC. I know, it happened to me.

Where's the fun if in playing a game if there's no danger?

Seatbelt
2007-05-23, 12:50 PM
What I find makes players more accepting of their character's deaths is that someone in the world actually cares. If the other PCs just shrug and forget about the dead PC it can really hit hard on the dead one.

One of the times I had a player who roleplayed an excellent character. He was an all-around good player, not selfish, played as a team member, etc. When his character died due to an unfortunate critical hit, the NPCs that he had previously helped out built a statue of him in their town and planted flowers around it.

The player of that dead PC thought that the statue was really cool and his next character also tried to interact with the town's NPCs a lot.

This is not a bad idea. They werent in town very long, but there were enough people to notice that a 4 person party is now a 3 person party +1 corpse.