Storm Character?

[Pocket_Sand]

Hey guys, so I'm still rather new to D&D, and after quite a few adventures I lost my first character, a Druid that was level 13. So, I'm looking to make a new character, and while i was looking through some of the characters and i noticed the Stormsinger as a Bard. Is it any good? Currently our party is a Duskblade, Sorcerer, Warblade, Druid (friend died too, decided to replace mine), Warlock, and a Cleric. Is a Stormsinger particularly useful or fun, and if we're dungeon diving, will he become useless if he's in those places?

Also to clarify, i just kinda want something that can do cool things like control weather and use lightning and stuff to injure targets.

[Vaern]

Stormsinger looks like it could be fun. As a mid-to-high level bard you'll always end up with more uses of bardic music than you can reasonably use in a day... adding a few extra abilities to help burn off some of your daily uses makes it almost like having a second spells known/spells per day list.
The class definitely fits the bill for a weather-controlling character. Keep in mind when using the thunderstrike abilities that they're supernatural rather than spell-like, so they aren't subject to being negated by spell resistance or spell immunity. Always a nice perk to have.
You wouldn't see much of the effects of the control weather ability if you're often stuck in dungeons, but all of the other effects should work just fine. Most of the abilities emanate from you. Storm of Vengeance may be a bad idea, though... Your party will most likely not appreciate it if you summon a 360-foot-radius storm cloud to flood a 40-foot-square room with acid and hail.

[Crake]

I actually have a homebrew variant of the frost mage called the storm mage available here (http://madius.wasd.net.au/doku.php?id=hb:storm_mage) if you're interested in using homebrew. It's practically just a straight port of the frost mage from cold to electric, with a few thematic changes.

[Andezzar]

Also to clarify, i just kinda want something that can do cool things like control weather and use lightning and stuff to injure targets.Stormlord is also quite nice, but the deity restriction could be a problem and your party already has a cleric. One more cleric isn't bad though.

[DarkSoul]

Take a look at Stormcaster from Stormwrack.

I liked the flavor when I skimmed it.

[Pocket_Sand]

Storm of Vengeance may be a bad idea, though... Your party will most likely not appreciate it if you summon a 360-foot-radius storm cloud to flood a 40-foot-square room with acid and hail.

NONSENSE! They'll love me! No, but i do see your point. The thing is we don't have any type of buff character, so I was trying to fill that slot, but i didn't want to be a regular bard. I tried to figure out some way to make a bard assassin, but that didn't work. I just want to be a class that is interesting, and can fill a role in my party that's needed.

[Pocket_Sand]

Take a look at Stormcaster from Stormwrack.

I liked the flavor when I skimmed it.

According to one of my buddies we don't use Stormwrack.

[Pocket_Sand]

Alright so looks like they don't wanna use Frostburn so i think Stormsinger is now out of the question. Any other suggestions for a fun, maybe unorthodox class?

[Nifft]

Alright so looks like they don't wanna use Frostburn so i think Stormsinger is now out of the question. Any other suggestions for a fun, maybe unorthodox class?

Looks like your group lacks a skill-monkey, and you're using PHB-2.

Maybe a Beguiler?

For a high-powered build, perhaps a Gnome Beguiler / Shadowcraft Mage (from Races of Stone).

[Pocket_Sand]

Looks like your group lacks a skill-monkey, and you're using PHB-2.

Maybe a Beguiler?

For a high-powered build, perhaps a Gnome Beguiler / Shadowcraft Mage (from Races of Stone).

DM is switching out with another player after this next adventure so we're gonna have a Chameleon as well, we'll be losing our Sorcerer, and he was saying the Chameleon has a high focus on skills, but I think Beguiler might be good. I'll read up on it some more. I just don't know if I'll be useless.

[Nifft]

DM is switching out with another player after this next adventure so we're gonna have a Chameleon as well, and he was saying he has a high focus on skills, but I think Beguiler might be good. I'll read up on it some more. I just don't know if I'll be useless.

The usual trouble with a Beguiler is that you are useless vs. undead and mindless stuff like golems, oozes, vermin, plants, etc.

Shadowcraft Mage ameliorates that by making your Illusion spells into Conjuration and Evocation emulated spells which affect everything. Requires a rather high level, though -- entry after character level 8 with minimal optimization (to grab shadow conjuration at Beguiler class level 7, after a 1-level dip in some other caster-advancing PrC).

With more optimization, you can get in earlier, of course.

[Andezzar]

The thing is we don't have any type of buff character, so I was trying to fill that slot, but i didn't want to be a regular bard.What is the cleric doing? He should be able to buff. He isn't using his spell slots for cure X wounds, is he?


I tried to figure out some way to make a bard assassin, but that didn't work. I just want to be a class that is interesting, and can fill a role in my party that's needed.Bardsader or bardblade should also be able to bluff.

[Nifft]

DM is switching out with another player after this next adventure so we're gonna have a Chameleon as well, we'll be losing our Sorcerer, and he was saying the Chameleon has a high focus on skills(...)

Ah, just noticed the edit.

If you want to cover Storm + Buffing, you can totally do that with a Sorcerer.

Here's one idea: be the epitome of Blue Dragon (which is all about lightning + desert).

Be something with the Dragonblood subtype. Silverbrow Human (from Dragon Magic) is a good choice.

Level 1-5: Sorcerer (take the Dragonblood ACF from Races of the Dragon to get Draconic Heritage free)
Level 6-15: Sand Shaper PrC from Sandstorm.
Level 16-20: Abjurant Champion

You'll end up with level 18 Sorcerer spellcasting, plus 43 bonus spells known via Sand Shaper.

The Sand Shaper spells include a bunch of very nicely thematic storm spells (e.g. haboob is a dusty whirlwind), plus a bunch of basic buffs and battlefield control. The rest of your spell list is therefore very open for thematic spells, since so much of the basic stuff is covered.

- - -

A more buff-oriented build might be to get into Heartfire Fanner, perhaps via Apprentice (Entertainer), and then stack on Words of Creation, Dragonfire Inspiration, and the like. That could get you enough full-party buffing to not worry about using spells to buff. You could get into that PrC via Sorcerer, if you wanted.

[Pocket_Sand]

What is the cleric doing? He should be able to buff. He isn't using his spell slots for cure X wounds, is he?

Our Cleric is indeed healing.

[Pocket_Sand]

Ah, just noticed the edit.

If you want to cover Storm + Buffing, you can totally do that with a Sorcerer.

Here's one idea: be the epitome of Blue Dragon (which is all about lightning + desert).

Be something with the Dragonblood subtype. Silverbrow Human (from Dragon Magic) is a good choice.

Level 1-5: Sorcerer (take the Dragonblood ACF from Races of the Dragon to get Draconic Heritage free)
Level 6-15: Sand Shaper PrC from Sandstorm.
Level 16-20: Abjurant Champion

You'll end up with level 18 Sorcerer spellcasting, plus 43 bonus spells known via Sand Shaper.

The Sand Shaper spells include a bunch of very nicely thematic storm spells (e.g. haboob is a dusty whirlwind), plus a bunch of basic buffs and battlefield control. The rest of your spell list is therefore very open for thematic spells, since so much of the basic stuff is covered.

- - -

A more buff-oriented build might be to get into Heartfire Fanner, perhaps via Apprentice (Entertainer), and then stack on Words of Creation, Dragonfire Inspiration, and the like. That could get you enough full-party buffing to not worry about using spells to buff. You could get into that PrC via Sorcerer, if you wanted.

Sounds neat! I think i'm gonna try this one out. If my DM shuts this one down than i don't know what to do, haha. I'll keep it in my "back pocket" for maybe a different campaign.

[Pocket_Sand]

The epitome of Blue Dragon is a no go. :\ I don't know what to do. A lot of books we aren't using.

[Troacctid]

What books are allowed? I see PH2, CAr, and ToB at least are on the table.

[Pocket_Sand]

I gotta make 10 posts.

[Pocket_Sand]

Some books are being used only for their enemies i know that much. let me get the list.

[Pocket_Sand]

https://gyazo.com/86f3c366db79240fdb18d67a99ff08be

Here is the list from my PCGen sources.

[Pocket_Sand]

What about Dragonfire Adept? I asked about that and they said that one is usable.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dragonfire Adept is very similar to Warlock in that you get one signature at-will ability and a smattering of other, more situational at-will abilities.

However, I would recommend going with a Sorcerer instead. Use the +0 LA Aasimar (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) since you never have to spend a level on the rest of its abilities (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a), and add Dragonborn of Bahamut in Races of the Dragon, making you an Outsider (Native, Dragonblood) with Dex -2, Con +2, Cha +2, and no LA. Get the Dragonblood Sorcerer 1 substitution level in Races of the Dragon for Draconic Heritage for a variety that uses electricity (Blue, Bronze, Oceanus, Platinum, Sapphire, Shen Lung, Song, Tun Mi Lung).

Get the Heart aspect from Dragonborn, and/or spend a feat on Draconic Breath, and learn the spell Blinding Breath in Spell Compendium. That makes it so anything that fails the reflex save vs your electrical breath attack is permanently blinded, even if they're immune to electrical damage. Get the Storm Bolt reserve feat in Complete Mage for an at-will electrical attack, and get a nice variety of crowd controls, utility, and damage/death spells.

Pick up the Ancestral Relic Runestaff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?267805-Sorcerer-Handbook#4) trick, and make it an Elvencraft Composite Longbow from Races of the Wild, which counts as both a quarterstaff and a longbow. You'll need to buy masterwork three times for it, and put three wand chambers from Dungeonscape in it if possible (100 gp per, each can hold a wand, you can activate a wand it contains as though you're holding the wand as long as you're holding that weapon). As an Outsider you're proficient in all martial weapons, including longbows. Put useful/situational spells on that, buffs you'll only use 1/day, etc.

Don't just take Sorcerer levels, they don't give you class features, you want to take prestige classes that advance your spellcasting for as many levels as possible. Be sure to include Sacred Exorcist 5 from Complete Divine, so you'll always have a Consecrate effect and can swap your Ancestral Relic Runestaff's stored spells during adventures. If the value doesn't change, the amount of time it takes to change it is multiplied by zero, so you don't even spend a free action on it. I would start out something like Sorcerer 6/ Ruathar 2/ Sacred Exorcist 5, since Ruathar in Races of the Dragon gets the Knowledge skills you need for Sacred Exorcist and four skill points/level. You can put Dismissal on the Ancestral Relic Runestaff to qualify for Sacred Exorcist, and once you get Dispel Evil 1/week from that it fulfills that prerequisite for you and you don't even need to keep Dismissal on there.

[Nifft]

https://gyazo.com/86f3c366db79240fdb18d67a99ff08be

Here is the list from my PCGen sources. That's weird.

It looks like all the source books I used are on your list:
- Dragon Magic
- Sandstorm
- Races of the Dragon
- Complete Mage

Was there something specific that was objectionable? Ask what it was, it's pretty easy to pare stuff down.

The core of the build is just:
- Sorcerer
- Draconic Heritage (blue)
- Sand Shaper PrC

That's only two supplements (Sandstorm, plus any one of: Complete Arcane, Races of the Dragon, or Dragon Magic).

Beyond that, it's just "lighting spells" and "dragon spells", which are not really abusive.



What about Dragonfire Adept? I asked about that and they said that one is usable.

Dragonfire Adept is a fine class.

Take Entangling Exhalation (from Races of the Dragon) at level 1, and Endure Exposure for your Invocation. Make everyone in the party immune every morning, then you can breathe fire constantly with no targeting concerns.

Level 2, I like Lightning Breath, because very few things seem to be immune to both Fire and Lightning damage, but Frost Breath is probably better overall.

Level 3, for your 2nd Invocation, you have to decide if you're going to be the party face (so +6 to talking is good), or the sage (so +6 to knowledge), or the Identify monkey, or something else. You also get a feat, and you have the Dragonblood subtype, so you can use Draconic Auras pretty effectively. If you want to be the backup healer, take Draconic Aura (vigor) and now everyone in 30 ft. has fast healing 1 up to half max hp. Since you have a divine character who seems to want to do nothing but heal, this might not be important.

Level 4, nothing interesting happens.

Level 5, you get Slow Breath. It's fantastic. Acid isn't bad, but Slow is better.

Level 6, you get your 3rd Invocation: Charm, Humanoid Shape, or Frightful Presence (unless you fight Undead / Oozes / Constructs a lot). Ask your DM if Humanoid Shape allows you to use your class-based Breath Weapon, or not. It should, since it's a class feature and not a form-based racial power, but you have to check. If it doesn't, then consider Draconic Flight instead. You also get a feat. Leadership is pretty nice, if it's allowed.

Level 7, meh.

Level 8, another Invocation: Charm, Humanoid Shape, and Frightful Presence are still looking good. Voidsense and Voracious Dispelling tend to be very useful around this level -- think about what sorts of opponents you've fought recently, and what sort of tactics they've used.

Level 9, you get a feat. Draconic Cohort is spiffy.

Level 10, a Breath Effect: I like Thunder.

Level 11, your next Invocation, and it's Greater: Chilling Fog is amazing in a combat-heavy game. Draconic Toughness is really nice, since it's an unlimited number of uses. Baleful Geas is amazing in a social / political game.

Level 12, another feat. I dunno, check the guide: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=15686.0

[Pocket_Sand]

That's weird.

It looks like all the source books I used are on your list:
- Dragon Magic
- Sandstorm
- Races of the Dragon
- Complete Mage

Was there something specific that was objectionable? Ask what it was, it's pretty easy to pare stuff down.

The core of the build is just:
- Sorcerer
- Draconic Heritage (blue)
- Sand Shaper PrC

That's only two supplements (Sandstorm, plus any one of: Complete Arcane, Races of the Dragon, or Dragon Magic).

Beyond that, it's just "lighting spells" and "dragon spells", which are not really abusive.




Dragonfire Adept is a fine class.

Take Entangling Exhalation (from Races of the Dragon) at level 1, and Endure Exposure for your Invocation. Make everyone in the party immune every morning, then you can breathe fire constantly with no targeting concerns.

Level 2, I like Lightning Breath, because very few things seem to be immune to both Fire and Lightning damage, but Frost Breath is probably better overall.

Level 3, for your 2nd Invocation, you have to decide if you're going to be the party face (so +6 to talking is good), or the sage (so +6 to knowledge), or the Identify monkey, or something else. You also get a feat, and you have the Dragonblood subtype, so you can use Draconic Auras pretty effectively. If you want to be the backup healer, take Draconic Aura (vigor) and now everyone in 30 ft. has fast healing 1 up to half max hp. Since you have a divine character who seems to want to do nothing but heal, this might not be important.

Level 4, nothing interesting happens.

Level 5, you get Slow Breath. It's fantastic. Acid isn't bad, but Slow is better.

Level 6, you get your 3rd Invocation: Charm, Humanoid Shape, or Frightful Presence (unless you fight Undead / Oozes / Constructs a lot). Ask your DM if Humanoid Shape allows you to use your class-based Breath Weapon, or not. It should, since it's a class feature and not a form-based racial power, but you have to check. If it doesn't, then consider Draconic Flight instead. You also get a feat. Leadership is pretty nice, if it's allowed.

Level 7, meh.

Level 8, another Invocation: Charm, Humanoid Shape, and Frightful Presence are still looking good. Voidsense and Voracious Dispelling tend to be very useful around this level -- think about what sorts of opponents you've fought recently, and what sort of tactics they've used.

Level 9, you get a feat. Draconic Cohort is spiffy.

Level 10, a Breath Effect: I like Thunder.

Level 11, your next Invocation, and it's Greater: Chilling Fog is amazing in a combat-heavy game. Draconic Toughness is really nice, since it's an unlimited number of uses. Baleful Geas is amazing in a social / political game.

Level 12, another feat. I dunno, check the guide: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=15686.0

We basically only use Sandstorm for the monsters, and also we're not in the world of Sandstorm so we don't have Touchstones, specifically the one I need to be a Sand Shaper.

I'm being the Party Face and these are the Invocations I'm taking, Beguiling Influence, Draconic Flight, See Unseen, Endure Exposure, Draconic Knowledge, and Walk Unseen. I'm starting at level 14 because that's when my character bit the dust.

[Troacctid]

I'm being the Party Face and these are the Invocations I'm taking, Beguiling Influence, Draconic Flight, See Unseen, Endure Exposure, Draconic Knowledge, and Walk Unseen. I'm starting at level 14 because that's when my character bit the dust.

You should have two greater, two lesser, and two least invocations. You have two lesser and four least there, so you're selling yourself short. Grab some greaters.

[TheifofZ]

You're taking quite a few lower level invocations, there.
I suggest Beguiling Influence (Least), Endure Exposure (Least), Draconic Flight (lesser), Enthralling Voice -or- Frightful Presence (lesser), and Devour Magic (Greater), and either Wingstorm for at least a little storm-type thematics, or Chilling Fog, for actual use.
Use magic items and your party members to fill in the rest, as it looks like you've got quite a versatile squad.

Also: remind your cleric he can spontaneously convert spells to healing Cure spells, and should be filling his spell slots with anything else (except maybe afew of his domains, if he took the Healing domain) because if he needs to, he can swap on the spot. Buff spells are usually one of the best options for a cleric to be carting around, because unless he really builds into healing, it generally takes less effort to negate damage than it does to heal it.
The Energy Resistance spell, for example, can negate huge swathes of damage with a single lower level spell slot that would require much higher level healing to match.

[Troacctid]

I would take Extra Invocation at 6th and 12th to pick up extra least and lesser invocations. Then take Beguiling Influence, Draconic Knowledge, and Endure Exposure for leasts, Voracious Dispelling, Walk Unseen, and Draconic Flight for lessers, and Chilling Fog and Baleful Geas for greaters.

Make sure you get a familiar. They're very good for DFAs. A standard bat familiar gets you blindsense, which pinpoints your enemies so you know where to breathe (even if they're in a chilling fog). If you upgrade to a lantern archon or coure eladrin, you get a fantastic suite of spell-like abilities (each of them is worth like six or seven invocations, it's amazing).

[Andezzar]

Yeah the cleric really has better things to do than preparing cure X wounds. Even an evil cleric (who cannot convert other spells to cure spells) shouldn't prepare many Cure spells. Other spells are simply better at the job e.g. (lesser) vigor.

[Nifft]

Just checking in, and it seems like everything I was going to suggest has been suggested -- do take two Greater Invocations if you possibly can.

Also, I hope you were allowed to take Entangling Exhalation as a feat.

Have fun and kick butt!