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SangoProduction
2015-10-17, 05:19 AM
So, I basically know next to nothing about PF. Are there good spells in it to support going melee?
What are good feats to take as a martial character? Power Attack has a much better ratio, but is capped based on level (I think that's rather reasonable). Is it still worth picking up (especially as a half BAB progression class)?
What else is there?

Serafina
2015-10-17, 06:26 AM
First:
If you want to play a "Gish" (melee-based caster), Pathfinder has much better classes for that than Sorcerer. Just looking at Arcane casters, you have four classes that combine a medium BAB with medium spellcasting (=up to 6th-level spells):
The Magus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus) is the archetypical gish in one class. You can even make a full attack and cast a spell in the same turn right from first level, and you're particularly dangerous with touch-spells.
The Bard, but more importantly the Skald (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/skald) combines martial ability and spellcasting and the buffing of allies. The Skald in particular is well-suited for melee (proficient with all martial weapons, being able to cast in medium armor) and gets several barbarian rage-powers.
The Summoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/unchained-classes/summoner-unchained) gets a powerful companion. While the class is perfectly viable to play as a caster, you gt a combat partner if you decide to go into melee.

Outside those parameters, any Divine Spellcasting class can make a good melee-caster. The Bloodrager (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/bloodrager) only gets up to 4th-level spells, but does get Sorcerer-like Bloodlines, full BAB and a rage class feature. The Investigator (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator) uses Alchemy instead of spellcasting, but does get a very powerful melee class feature (Studied Combat).


Second:
You can grab Sorcerer Bloodlines in other ways, if that is what you are interested in. Eldritch Heritage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/eldritch-heritage) (Improved (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/improved-eldritch-heritage), Greater (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/greater-eldritch-heritage)) gives you a Bloodlines first (3rd/9th; 15th) power. However, it requires Skill Focus and good charisma to take.
The other way is Variant Multiclassing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement). It is less flexible (you lose feats at set points in exchange for the features) and comes in at different times, but you gain all of a bloodlines powers without needing any Charisma.


Third:
If you really want to be a Melee-based Sorcerer for some other reason other than melee+(spontaneous) casting or Bloodlines, you will probably want to enter a Prestige Class that actually gives you a decent base attack bonus. Ideal for this is the Dragon Disciple (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/dragon-disciple), which advances your casting and bloodline and gives medium BAB.


Fourth:
Yes, power attack is still a staple melee feat. There are others too, though I won't get into that now.

Vhaidara
2015-10-17, 09:00 AM
You forgot one of the gish level PF classes: Alchemist, which fills the role of the buff-focused gish in PF:catch them off guard, and they'll be a bit weaker than the standard frontliner. Give them a few minutes to prep and buff though, and they are gonna wreck yo ****.

But yeah, I recommend highly looking at the PF gish classes (3/4 BAB, 6th level casting). It's pretty much the one type of class Paizo actually knows how to make well consistently (full BAB classes tend to be too weak, excepting Bloodrager, and full casting classes are, well, full casting classes)

SangoProduction
2015-10-17, 01:33 PM
I like the magus...those Dragon Disciple looks pretty nice, considering I was already wanting a Dragon bloodline....I'll just make due with the Magus. Are there any spells not in core that I just really should know about going in to this?

Vhaidara
2015-10-17, 01:40 PM
If you like the look of Dragon Disciple, you can combine it with Draconic Bloodline Bloodrager for a much more melee friendly build.

For Magus, the core spells are Shocking Grasp, Snowball, and Disintegrate. There's a guide floating around somewhere.

Serafina
2015-10-17, 02:37 PM
You know, you CAN enter Dragon Disciple with a Magus, as long as you take the Eldritch Scion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/eldritch-scion) Archetype.

And according to the FAQ, Dragon Disciple does advance Bloodrager bloodlines (which Eldritch Scion gets). However, entering the PrC would still stop progressing your Eldritch Pool, you would gain no more Arcana or Bonus Feats, and you'd lose spellcasting. You would get some ability boosts, some natural armor, a bite attack and some extra breath weapon uses/flight speed and blindsense.

If you want to go for "Draconic Gish", Eldritch Scion is already plenty good on it's own.
You're a charisma-based medium caster with medium BAB. You can fight with Claws from 1st-level onward, gain energy-resistances, natural armor, a breath weapon, wings and can eventually turn directly into a dragon. That all comes with limited duration, mind you, but it's plenty good for combat.

You'll naturally want the Natural Spellstrike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/magus-arcana/paizo---magus-arcana/natural-spell-combat-ex) Arcana


There are potential shenanigans if you variant-multiclass into Sorcerer as a Eldritch Scion (or Bloodrager), then take the Dragon Disciple PrC. It might potentially maybe advance both of your Bloodlines at once, with potential maybe fast-advancement of the Sorcerer-part. If it does, it'd work like this:
- Bloodrager Bloodline advances with your level normally - from each Magus and Dragon Disciple level.
- Sorcerer Bloodline advances by character level AND by Dragon Disciple level. So as Magus 5/Dragon Disciple 5, you'd have an effective Sorcerer level of 15 (10 from character level, 5 from PrC), unlocking your wings. You'd also deal the damage of a 15th-level Sorcerer with your Breath Weapon, scaling all the way up to 30 if you're level 20.
Again, potential shenanigans that seem RAW-legal, but I might be overlooking something. Not actually broken, mind you - the worst would be the 4/day 30D6 damage breath weapon, at level 20 that's hardly broken.

This all hinges on the following interpretation:
- Variant Multiclass Sorcerer says that you "treat your character level as your effective sorcerer level for all bloodline powers."
- Dragon Disciple "adds his level to his sorcerer level when determining the powers gained from his bloodline".
- That this stacks as "character level + dragon disciple level=effective sorcerer level".
- That Blood of Dragons unlocks the powers, instead of your variant multiclass.

If that's an option, you'll probably want to trade out the Sorcerer-bloodline Claws power (which is redundant with your Bloodrager-claws) for a Bloodline Familiar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar#TOC-Bloodline-Familiars).

But at any rate, this is heavily "ask your GM" territory. But it'd be cool for an Extra-Draconic Gish.