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View Full Version : Lernaean creature + Swallow Whole = ?



Uncle Pine
2015-10-17, 07:06 AM
1) Take a creature with the Swallow Whole special attack (notably a suboptimal ability because by swallowing something you're inviting it to attack your insides, which usually have a lower AC than your "outsides"). I.e. a purple worm:

A purple worm can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of a smaller size than itself by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+12 points of crushing damage plus 8 points of acid damage per round from the worm’s gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 17). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A Gargantuan worm’s interior can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, 128 Tiny, or 512 Diminutive or smaller opponents.
2) Apply the Lernaean multiheaded template (Savage Species) to the creature:

These multiheaded creatures have bodies that are immune to attack (but see below). The only way to slay a Lernaean creature is to sever all its heads. However, each time a head is severed, two new heads spring from the stump in 1d4 rounds. A Lernaean creature may never have more than twice its original number of heads, and any heads it gains beyond that number wither and die within a day.

To prevent a severed head from growing back into two, at least 5 points of fire or acid damage must be dealt to the stump (AC 19) before the new heads appear.

Spells such as disintegrate, finger of death, and slay living kill a Lernaean creature outright if they succeed. If the spell deals damage on a successful save, that damage is directed against one of the creature's heads.
3) Swallowed creatures can only escape by dealing damage to the creature's stomach/gizzard/etc., except they can't because it's immune to damage.
4) Enjoy a new way to make your players hate grappling monsters! But beware Freedom of movement.

Does anyone know some good monsters with swallow whole to apply the above to?

Necroticplague
2015-10-17, 07:18 AM
I'd think specific vs. general would kick in, and the part of Swallow Whole that states you can cut your way out would override the general rule about lernean creatures having bodies that can't be harmed.

Mr Adventurer
2015-10-17, 08:21 AM
Is the damage dealt to a gizzard even subtracted from the creature's hit points?

Necroticplague
2015-10-17, 09:01 AM
Is the damage dealt to a gizzard even subtracted from the creature's hit points?

I don't think so.

Werephilosopher
2015-10-17, 10:01 AM
This is why every adventurer should carry vials of ipecac. Just in case.

Uncle Pine
2015-10-17, 10:43 AM
I'd think specific vs. general would kick in, and the part of Swallow Whole that states you can cut your way out would override the general rule about lernean creatures having bodies that can't be harmed.
I think specific vs general would work the other way around: you have the general rules for this creature species (purple worm in my example) and then you have this specific two- three- or N-headed specimen.


Is the damage dealt to a gizzard even subtracted from the creature's hit points?
I always ruled it was. Otherwise, we'd probably have an entire line of feats to improve a gizzard's combat capabilities at this point: Gizzard Proficiency, Improved Gizzard, Deflect Arrows to the Gizzard...
Also, it's not stated anywhere that the gizzard has a separate hit point pool.


This is why every adventurer should carry vials of ipecac. Just in case.
Does ipecac work on undead creatures? I'll have to check that.
EDIT: Undeads are immune to harmful effects that require a Fort save (unless they affect objects), but ipecac doesn't grant a save. Thus, you can use ipecac if you get swallowed by an undead multiheaded purple worm and it'll work! +1 for ipecac.

Flickerdart
2015-10-17, 10:43 AM
Do lernaean creatures have one gizzard, or one per head?

Uncle Pine
2015-10-17, 10:50 AM
The multiheaded template doesn't grant multiple gizzards, so they'd have only one.

Necroticplague
2015-10-17, 11:05 AM
I think specific vs general would work the other way around: you have the general rules for this creature species (purple worm in my example) and then you have this specific two- three- or N-headed specimen.

Equally accurately: You have the general rule for learnean creatures, and then you have the rules for Lernean creatures with Swallow Whole, which are a subset of Learnean Creatures. Learnean Purple Worm is definitely more specific than Learnean Creature, and would possess the Swallow Whole ability that states "A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard", overriding the general immunity of their body to damage.

martixy
2015-10-17, 11:11 AM
The multiheaded template doesn't grant multiple gizzards, so they'd have only one.

It doesn't also explicitly grant multiple spines(or at least a forked one), yet we don't question that...

(You know, this thread is delightfully gross. I like it.)