China Mieville's books - Kudos and Criticisms from what I've read

[Siberys]

Well, prompted by the Dragon Magazine issue I got, I bought all three Mieville books, and have been considering the style. So here, as I progress, I will list my kudos and criticisms.

I'd like to note, I like the plot and setting and all that rot, but I don't like some of the specifics or generalities.

1) Cynical - China obviously is VERY cynical, at least in regards to politics. It shows in his portrayal of New Crobuzon - though it does get across that 'late 19th century New York / mid 19th century London' feel.

2) EXCESSIVE PROFANITY - This guy throws around curses worse than a Klingon! I found the profusion of unnecessarily vulgar words to be a put-off - instead of saying 'sh*t', he could have said 'crapped', 'defecated', or simply left out the detail. I swear, I'm not halfway through chapter 6, and I've seen a number of string-sentences with something like 5 curses each. This guy's mouth needs to washed with soap.

3) Overuse of the word 'fart'. I don't care how childish it is of me, but it's hard to focus on the import of a serious soliloquy when he says 'fart'.

4) The obvious idea behind the story - I can appreciate the story at face value, but, underneath, it is obviously a pro-socialist allegory or fable - it's especially transparent in regard to the Garuda (However cool nomad Hawkmen with a moving library may be). 'individualism to the point of communism'. The Remade, the nasty conditions, etc. All symbolic.

5) The obvious distaste for religion this guy has. I mean, when he first introduced Ged, he was so cynical about religions.

6) I like the longwindedness and large words. It puts some people off, but I like expanding my vocabulary - I always read with a dictionary at my side, and memorize any word I don't recognize.

I am a self-proclaimed conservative, hence my issues with 2, 4 & 5, but, even disregarding that, the stories would be better without 5 curses a page and a political message - regardless what that political message was.

Anyways, I'm gonna read all of the books, and post kudos and complaints as I go along. If nothing else, it'll at least be an exercise in acceptance of other's values and views, or what to avoid when writing a novel of my own.

[bosssmiley]

Hi Siberys.

Please don't let China's love of the grungy (in both language and situation - the guy almost seems to have a grot fetish at times :smallannoyed: ) or apparent political agenda put you off what are fantastic fantasy books. If you liked Lovecraft, Hodgson, Poe, Peake or Pratchett(!) you'll hopefully come to appreciate the stories that China Mieville writes. It's just a case of growing accustomed to his - rather distinctive - authorial voice.

If nothing else, forgive his trespasses for bringing us the sheer visceral horror of the Slake Moth. :smallwink:

[Strasserine]

First post- it took China Mieville to lure me from a year of lurking!
I suppose the thing to remember about Mieville is that he's a 6-foot, shaven-headed, over-muscled London socialist who just happens to also be a colossal self-confessed DnD nerd. So, if while watching the Lord of the Rings you found yourself wondering why there were no farms around Minas Tirith or why Gondorian armour didn't actually seem to do anything, Mieville is the author for you. There are a few hidden rpg jokes in his books- like the adventurers who "fight for gold and experience," which sounds like Mieville's typical odd phrasing until you realise that he's referring directly to the gaming staples of loot and XP!
Still, I agree that his focus on gunge and politics can take a lot of getting used to. If you found the politics in PSS a bit much, you might want to skip Iron Council entirely. The Scar is also intensely political, but more in the sense of the dynamics of power than of communism vs capitalism. (You might also enjoy driving yourself mad searching for all the hidden meanings of the ship names in the Scar...)
And I agree with bosssmiley- the slake moth is one of the coolest fictional creatures EVER.

[Siberys]

Well, it's not that I'm not liking the stories. It was just the sheer shock value of some of it. I do love Poe and Lovecraft, so I'm hoping it'll pick up. It will be fun looking for the hidden symbolism (both political and D&D oriented :smallbiggrin: ), though.

If the Slake Moth is as cool as it's Dragon treatment, I'm sure I won't be disappointed. Just gotta get used to his 'authorial voice', as you say.

Siberys

[El Jaspero, the Pirate King]

I dunno...I found Mieville's profanity sort of like reading the wonky Riddley Walker language...it becomes texural, part of the fabric of the book and I quit noticing it after a while.

[Mr Croup]

I'm a fan of Mieville, but unfortunately a lot of what I like about his writing, at least in regards to the New Crobuzon, is tied to his writing as social commentary, which would no doubt lead me into off limit topics. That being said, I find the world he created very intriguing, and I really enjoy the "voice" he cultured in Perdido Street Station. It's the only of his books set in the New Crobuzon world that I've read, but his style carries throughout his other writings. Personally, I'm a big fan of King Rat, but then I'm a sucker for "modern/urban fantasy." I think that one of the aspects of his writing that I enjoy the most is that he has a very distinct style and voice, but is also able to cultivate very specific individual voices for his characters, whether it be the disaffected club kids of King Rat, or the rough, cockney tinged voice of King Rat himself, or the myriad voices in Perdido Street Station.

I'll agree with El Jaspero, in that the profanity, and the sometimes odd rhythms and diction of Mieville in general, become easy to accept after a while, as they become as intricate a part of the stories as any of the characters. The comparison to Riddley Walker is a great example (and it's a great book).

[Stagger Lee]

Mieville's a socialist. The villains in his novels (Bas-Lag at least) are accurate portraits of capitalist "robber barons". I, for one, find them much more interesting than generic dark lords. The fantasy genre should welcome innovation. Asimov had heroic "trader" capitalists, as did Heinlein, and to a lesser degree, Kim Stanley Robinson. There's room enough in Sci-fi/fantasy for dirty capitalist slime.

[MinusInnocence]

I, too, picked up a copy of Perdido Street Station after reading that issue of Dragon (I write monthly reviews of the magazine for a friend's website so I felt like I should probably read what the hell this guy was talking about).

I'm into it. I fell in love with the city as one of the characters of the story, despite all of its numerous faults. I think the sociopolitical message would be a little hard to swallow if that's all the book is but if you take it as just part of this fantastic new world the author is leading us through, it's fine. I hope you enjoy the rest of it.

Plus there's bug women. That's the hottest thing ever.

[Gaelbert]

I went out and bought Perdido Street Station after the Dragon magazine article, too. I thought it was fairly good, although the Slake Moth's freaked me out, and I thought the end of the book was... interesting, to say the least. I'm trying to decide right now if I should buy some of his other books.

[Siberys]

Okay - I've read much farther into the book. It's definately gotten better, but I could still go without the profanity. Preferences, I guess.

I sorta over-reacted about the sociopolitical point of the book. It is definitely socialist, but I've read 'The Jungle' - if I can get through that much socialism, this'll be easy. It's also not quite as heavily socialist as I first thought - yes, there's all of that anti-capitalism through portrayal of the negative side of it, robber-barons, etc., but it's not AS pervasive as it originally appeared.

Speaking of 'he Jungle', the slaughterhouse 'Runagate Rampant' was run from reminded me of it. :smallbiggrin:

But I'm in agreement. So far, it's a good book, if taken in stride.

[Stagger Lee]

Speaking of 'the Jungle', the slaughterhouse 'Runagate Rampant' was run from reminded me of it.

Yeah, I thought that was an intentional homage. Anyone else agree?

[bosssmiley]

Yeah, I thought that was an intentional homage. Anyone else agree?

I thought it was intended as a passing critique of the way the print media (both in RL and Bas-Lag) carves up complex living issues into easily consumed and digested chunks far removed from their source, much as a slaughterhouse carves animals into meat in an out-of-sight, out-of-mind way.

*meh* You know a book's doing well when people all take different, yet equally valid points away from it while agreeing that the story is great.