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View Full Version : Is there anyway to stop a frenzied berserker without killing him?



Masakan
2015-10-19, 04:33 PM
For as much as people revel in the power of spellcasters, none can deny the danger of the frenzied berserker. To friend and Foe alike, This whirling dervish of carnage and destruction, has the capacity to kill anything you throw at it...as well as your own party.
Now i'm fairly sure that there are a multitude of ways to deal with this and one just came to mind right now...your cleric or bard would more than likely have calm emotions on standby, But I'm looking for a more permanent solution. Any suggestions?

ZamielVanWeber
2015-10-19, 04:37 PM
Marbles will slow him down greatly. He auto fails the Balance check and so loses the rest of his move, had to crawl out of the marbles, and stand up. Apply multiple marbles for greater effect. Scoop them up when done. You can even have him buy them for their (negligible) cost.

Other options include an Apostle of Peace's touch (some risks apply) as well as simply out of the Berserker' sensory range.

ComaVision
2015-10-19, 04:38 PM
It's the Frenzied Berserker's responsibility to make sure he doesn't go out of control and attack the party.

AvatarVecna
2015-10-19, 04:38 PM
Calm Emotions works, but that gives a save. Grease is better when it affects an area: whether they make or fail the initial Reflex save, they have to make a Balance check to move out of it...and Frenzied Berserkers automatically fail Balance checks while in a Frenzy.

Amphetryon
2015-10-19, 04:40 PM
In addition to marbles, Grease, Path of Frost, and other BFC spells that create slick surfaces pretty much autostop FBs outside of specific builds.

Masakan
2015-10-19, 04:42 PM
Calm Emotions works, but that gives a save. Grease is better when it affects an area: whether they make or fail the initial Reflex save, they have to make a Balance check to move out of it...and Frenzied Berserkers automatically fail Balance checks while in a Frenzy.
That's kinda funny to imagine a berserker flailing around on the floor like a baby throwing a tantrum.

Werephilosopher
2015-10-19, 04:43 PM
Calm Emotions works, but that gives a save.

A Will save. If he can't make the DC 20 save to end the frenzy, he probably won't make the save vs. calm emotions either. Nor against hold person, glitterdust etc.

Tanglefoot bags, nets, marbles, etc. are good nonmagical solutions.

AvatarVecna
2015-10-19, 04:44 PM
That's kinda funny to imagine a berserker flailing around on the floor like a baby throwing a tantrum.

The person who introduced me to the trick (who had actually played in a party with a FB at one point), compared it to covering The Incredible Hulk in industrial-strength lube: every time he slips and falls, he gets angrier and angrier, and tries to use more and more strength to brute-force his way to a standing position...only to slip, because brute-force and rash decisions does not a Balance check make.

Rebel7284
2015-10-19, 04:45 PM
Eventually, the FB will need flight to stay relevant, so marbles/grease become problematic to use. :-\

ZamielVanWeber
2015-10-19, 04:45 PM
I double checked marbles and the balance check is also to move out of the square at all. Locks them down nicely.

AvatarVecna
2015-10-19, 04:46 PM
A Will save. If he can't make the DC 20 save to end the frenzy, he probably won't make the save vs. calm emotions either. Nor against hold person, glitterdust etc.

Tanglefoot bags, nets, marbles, etc. are good nonmagical solutions.

Calm Emotions is certainly a good thing for taking down a friendly FB, but an enemy FB might have the Will save to end it and just chooses not to. He might have huge saves across the board and immunity to mind-affecting, but Grease will affect him all the same unless he can fly.

AvatarVecna
2015-10-19, 04:47 PM
Eventually, the FB will need flight to stay relevant, so marbles/grease become problematic to use. :-\

That's in mid-op games and up, though; in more standard games, where mages aren't breaking the universe in half, the DM won't be making adventures that require the FB to have independent flight. So unless he's got innate wings, that **** can be dispelled (or, if high enough level, Disjunction'd).

Kelb_Panthera
2015-10-19, 04:53 PM
Marbles and grease my foot. A melee character who can't fly by level ten is doomed to death from above at some point.

First and foremost, don't worry about it too much. A berserker who's pumped his will save like a responsible player should will fail to control himself so rarely that the risk is negligible.

If you're -really- concerned, just insist he carry and use a merciful weapon and an always on but easily removed necklace or torc that provides a calm emotions effect.

The exalted feat righteous wrath will allow him to control himself so long as he's raging at the same time as he is frenzying and -should- allow him to control himself regardless as that was the crystal clear intent of the feat.

Flickerdart
2015-10-19, 05:10 PM
Establish control over a swarm, and have it shadow the berserker. Once the berserker runs out of enemies, he will attempt to attack the swarm - fruitlessly, since swarms are not damaged by weapon attacks.

ZamielVanWeber
2015-10-19, 05:13 PM
Establish control over a swarm, and have it shadow the berserker. Once the berserker runs out of enemies, he will attempt to attack the swarm - fruitlessly, since swarms are not damaged by weapon attacks.

Couldn't this be done by a warlock with summon swarm? Even if theirs are vulnerable to his hits he will full attack them and the warlock can summon more on his turn. As long they exist the FB can keep attacking them, which he can even do with permaflight.

Tohsaka Rin
2015-10-19, 05:17 PM
Swarms! You two are brilliant!

Possibly mad, but still, brilliant!

Flickerdart
2015-10-19, 05:18 PM
Couldn't this be done by a warlock with summon swarm? Even if theirs are vulnerable to his hits he will full attack them and the warlock can summon more on his turn. As long they exist the FB can keep attacking them, which he can even do with permaflight.
Yes, a warlock or really anyone with at-will summons like a binder can spam cannon fodder at the berserker until he abates, but it may be easier to just bribe a friendly hivemind and not have to rely on specific class combinations.

ZamielVanWeber
2015-10-19, 05:21 PM
Yes, a warlock or really anyone with at-will summons like a binder can spam cannon fodder at the berserker until he abates, but it may be easier to just bribe a friendly hivemind and not have to rely on specific class combinations.

I was more thinking of a solution a DM would like. Strictly speaking access to any monster that is immune (or extremely highly resistant) would work.

Uncle Pine
2015-10-19, 05:21 PM
I could swear I saw a thread almost identical to this one recently... Nevertheless, if Grease won't cut it, you Dominate your FB early in the morning and ask her to voluntarily fail the save, then issue the following command: "act as if you weren't dominated". Adventure normally. As soon as your FB runs out of enemies in combat, either command the FB to not attack you and your allies or, if your DM rules that such a command is "against the FB's nature" and thus would would get her a new save, command her to "attack that extremely dangerous and invisible enemy adjacent to her that will explode and kill her in [number of rounds of frenzy left] unless she manages to defeat it". The latter command should be well within the FB's nature, so she shouldn't get a new save.

Tvtyrant
2015-10-19, 05:26 PM
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere + Darkness spell. Now the Berserker cannot perceive any foes, and so ends their frenzy. Just have the Berserker buy contingencies for when they fail a will save.

Hal0Badger
2015-10-19, 09:31 PM
There are certain magical measures:
Low level: Grease
Mid level : Solid fog
Mid-High level: Pacification (bard 4, cleric 5, no save, Hd limit equal to CL, acts as "calm emotion")

Necroticplague
2015-10-19, 09:47 PM
It's pretty close to trivial to make the will save to stop frenzying an auto-pass(except for ones). Combine with a merciful weapon, and you should have enough time (the berzerker can fight normally with merciful on, knocking them really far unconcious then CDGing them after nobody can fight back.) for him to come to his senses with no casualties.

Or, you can just say 'disregard frenzy, acquire improved power attack' and just waste your frenzy uses for the day in the morning beating up trees or sections of ground aeay from the party.

Alternatively, if the berzerker doesn't have IUS, you could give him an intelligent item. This would count as a creature, and would be the one nearest to him (since its on his person), so he'd attack it. Since I don't think you can hit a weapon with itself, he'd have to attack it unarmed for nonlethal damage (to which it is immune). Alternatively, if the object isn't his weapon (or he has backups), you could have the intelligent item augmented by hardness improving spells to the points that the berzerker can't even scratch the surface.

LTwerewolf
2015-10-19, 11:29 PM
FB takes a level of Thayan knight, wizard takes a level of red wizard. FB now auto fails saves against red wizards.

Sacrieur
2015-10-19, 11:53 PM
Alternatively, if the berzerker doesn't have IUS, you could give him an intelligent item. This would count as a creature, and would be the one nearest to him (since its on his person), so he'd attack it. Since I don't think you can hit a weapon with itself, he'd have to attack it unarmed for nonlethal damage (to which it is immune). Alternatively, if the object isn't his weapon (or he has backups), you could have the intelligent item augmented by hardness improving spells to the points that the berzerker can't even scratch the surface.

On the contrary FB's must attack to the best of their ability. This doesn't necessarily mean punching the crap out of a metal sword, as the FB would know that wouldn't be an effective way of damaging it. They may grab a nearby rock and attempt to smash into pieces, however.

They don't suddenly turn to incompetent oafs when you run out of foes. You essentially have to keep playing the character the same as you were before, treating the closest creature as a foe. It's one of those moments when the DM (and I will if I have to) can control a player into not pulling any punches with it. But I've never had an issue with a player not enjoying going on a bloody rampage against their allies; rather, the opposite certainly seems the case.

Troacctid
2015-10-20, 12:07 AM
Couldn't this be done by a warlock with summon swarm? Even if theirs are vulnerable to his hits he will full attack them and the warlock can summon more on his turn. As long they exist the FB can keep attacking them, which he can even do with permaflight.

Summon Swarm takes a full round to cast and doesn't take effect until your next turn. By the time you finish, the barbarian will have already charged you.

Sir Chuckles
2015-10-20, 01:55 AM
So! What I'm gleaning from all this is a bag of marbles and a Bag of Tricks.

Kraken
2015-10-20, 01:58 AM
Is there a way to simply make a jump check to get out of the grease without needing a balance check?

AvatarVecna
2015-10-20, 02:19 AM
Is there a way to simply make a jump check to get out of the grease without needing a balance check?

You need a Balance check to move. Heck, if you fail the Balance check by more than a little (which an FB arguably does, since they auto-fail Balance checks), you're prone. Jumping from prone? I don't think you can do that by RAW, even at a big penalty. It's debatable if you can fly, but if you can fly as an FB, you likely didn't get in a situation where Grease would cause you to go prone.

Mage keeper
2015-10-20, 02:20 AM
halfelf bard. there is a variant sostitution level that trade your countersong for a bardic music with a calm emotion effect, the godd thing is that the DC is your diplomacy check (easiest optimization ever)

Kraken
2015-10-20, 02:55 AM
You need a Balance check to move. Heck, if you fail the Balance check by more than a little (which an FB arguably does, since they auto-fail Balance checks), you're prone. Jumping from prone? I don't think you can do that by RAW, even at a big penalty. It's debatable if you can fly, but if you can fly as an FB, you likely didn't get in a situation where Grease would cause you to go prone.

Even then, once they're on the ground, arguably they can use a full round action to move five feet. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#hamperedMovement) And they don't need to get far, grease only covers 4 squares, so of their eight possible exit squares, only three contain grease, if they find a way to make it to any of the other five squares connected to where they're currently standing, then it's game time again. Marbles are even riskier, only covering one square I believe.

But I agree that by level 10, they should be flying, so a safer solution is to simply create a silent image of a summoned enemy. That buys everyone a round to get away at minimum, which is probably sufficient, or the best case scenario is that they fail the will save once they start dueling the illusion and you just keep kiting them away with it. And if this conversation is happening, their will save is probably pretty bad, otherwise they'd simply be making the save to end their frenzy early in the first place.

AvatarVecna
2015-10-20, 02:58 AM
halfelf bard. there is a variant sostitution level that trade your countersong for a bardic music with a calm emotion effect, the godd thing is that the DC is your diplomacy check (easiest optimization ever)

That reminds me of another potential shut-down that isn't dependent on the FB's lack of movement types: that Yu-Gi-Oh esque card game challenge feat that I can never remember the name of. Mechanics are similar to that bard thing, but the basic idea is "you diplomancy a sentient enemy into playing a card game instead of fighting". The DC you have to beat to succeed is garbage even outside of decent Diplomancy optimization.

Uncle Pine
2015-10-20, 03:14 AM
So! What I'm gleaning from all this is a bag of marbles and a Bag of Tricks.

And Dominate. Don't forget Dominate.

bekeleven
2015-10-20, 12:22 PM
They're bound by the rules to fight to the best of their ability. If they're frenzying, they can hardly optimize combat tactics. Ergo, failing saves against calm emotions fulfills this purpose.

If the DM doesn't buy that, I have another plan, but it involves shouting "Bull's Strength!" and a bluff check.

LTwerewolf
2015-10-20, 01:44 PM
I still feel like thayan knight/red wizard is the way to go.

danzibr
2015-10-20, 01:50 PM
Marbles will slow him down greatly. He auto fails the Balance check and so loses the rest of his move, had to crawl out of the marbles, and stand up. Apply multiple marbles for greater effect. Scoop them up when done. You can even have him buy them for their (negligible) cost.

Other options include an Apostle of Peace's touch (some risks apply) as well as simply out of the Berserker' sensory range.
I was going to pop on to say this, but damn, the second post had it.

I was also going to say... it'd be a neat party idea to have Frenzied Berserker in with Apostle of Peace.

AvatarVecna
2015-10-20, 01:55 PM
I was also going to say... it'd be a neat party idea to have Frenzied Berserker in with Apostle of Peace.

"The only way to make an intolerable PrC tolerable is with another intolerable PrC!"

ZamielVanWeber
2015-10-20, 01:57 PM
"The only way to make an intolerable PrC tolerable is with another intolerable PrC!"

Apostle of Peace isn't too bad as long as you leave humanoids and monstrous humanoids alone... And stand outside that dang aura.

I could see a party where an Apostle of Peace works with a Frenzied Berserker that uses a merciful weapon to knock people out and then redeem them.

Hal0Badger
2015-10-20, 10:47 PM
Apostle of Peace isn't too bad as long as you leave humanoids and monstrous humanoids alone... And stand outside that dang aura.

I could see a party where an Apostle of Peace works with a Frenzied Berserker that uses a merciful weapon to knock people out and then redeem them.
Eventhough I would agree it is one of the possible ways, it is not the most optimal, if not the one of the least ones. It requires a touch, something quite risky if the FB has reach, also it is a certain type of PRC, hard to dip in.
Requires 4 feat to enter, a base will save of +5, and forces a character to play a certain type (exalted feats).

Isn't normal magical measures are better?

Grease can cover till you FB gets fly option, when when he gets fly (around level 10), a cleric or bard should have access to "Pacification" spell, which works like calm emotions but with no save, with HD limit equal to CL, so as far as FB does not get more HD than the caster, party should be okay. If you don' access to Pacification (sadly it is bard or cleric only), a solid fog would do the trick just fine.

I would agree using spell slots, especially high ones, to stop your teammate is not ideal, but it sure is better than forced to play a certain type?

ZamielVanWeber
2015-10-20, 10:55 PM
Eventhough I would agree it is one of the possible ways, it is not the most optimal, if not the one of the least ones. It requires a touch, something quite risky if the FB has reach, also it is a certain type of PRC, hard to dip in.
Requires 4 feat to enter, a base will save of +5, and forces a character to play a certain type (exalted feats).

Isn't normal magical measures are better?

The Vow of Peace gives an aura of Calm Emotions, which if they are bombing their will save to end frenzy has a decent chance of protecting them. And I did say it was risky; it is an option.

daremetoidareyo
2015-10-20, 11:08 PM
"The only way to make an intolerable PrC tolerable is with another intolerable PrC!"

Add a CN kender rogue for the trifecta.

Eisfalken
2015-10-20, 11:23 PM
If the FB isn't immune to nonlethal damage somehow, consider the whelm spell and it's higher-level variants from Player's Handbook 2; inevitable defeat works best when it lands. It helps that they already take nonlethal damage while frenzied. Bigby's striking fist from that book is mildly useful, too, because it both does nonlethal damage and knockback. If the FB took lethal damage from combat, you'll heal both that and nonlethal at the same time with various curative effects, so that's something that takes care of itself.

Spell Compendium has a few more goodies. Ray of clumsiness may take a couple of hits to do much good, but once their Dex is 0, they can't move for a few minutes. Sting ray isn't strictly better, because it still lets them move or attack, but if they have to keep moving at least 10 ft. a round, you can dance with them until they calm down.

If you want to be an a-hole, hit them with torrent of tears (CM); it makes them cry, and they are sickened and blinded for 5 rounds. There's just something amusing about an FB crying and screaming and being unable to run around as good...

AvatarVecna
2015-10-20, 11:46 PM
Add a CN kender rogue for the trifecta.

And the Apostle of Peace doesn't have anything to steal! It's perfect!

So...a self-righteous holier-than-thou hippie caster is in a party with an uncontrollable rage monster and a standard Kender Rogue. I'm pretty sure this is the point where most DMs would throw in the towel...or flip the table.

ZamielVanWeber
2015-10-20, 11:53 PM
And the Apostle of Peace doesn't have anything to steal! It's perfect!

So...a self-righteous holier-than-thou hippie caster is in a party with an uncontrollable rage monster and a standard Kender Rogue. I'm pretty sure this is the point where most DMs would throw in the towel...or flip the table.

My DM keeps a tiny table from a pizza just so he can flip it. I have needed to use it myself...

Kraken
2015-10-20, 11:54 PM
Of all the spells mentioned so far, I still think silent image is the best option, both because as far as I can imagine it can effectively keep the FB distracted (if the FB has a good will save in the first place, they can just end their frenzy on their own with a DC 20 save), and the spell is very useful on its own. Most (possibly all) wizards I've ever played have taken silent image at level 1 anyway.

Blinding spittle (Spell Comp.) is an option for druids, another good spell all on its own. Can't think of a cleric option.

ZamielVanWeber
2015-10-20, 11:56 PM
Of all the spells mentioned so far, I still think silent image is the best option, both because as far as I can imagine it can effectively keep the FB distracted (if the FB has a good will save in the first place, they can just end their frenzy on their own with a DC 20 save), and the spell is very useful on its own. Most (possibly all) wizards I've ever played have taken silent image at level 1 anyway.

Incontrovertible evidence (such as his sword mysteriously passing through it) will let him see through the illusion without making a save. It will buy you a round (two if he cannot reach it in one round) but isn't a permanent solution.

daremetoidareyo
2015-10-21, 12:10 AM
And the Apostle of Peace doesn't have anything to steal! It's perfect!


And the kender needs that calm emotions aura more than the apostle does.

AvatarVecna
2015-10-21, 12:12 AM
And the kender needs that calm emotions aura more than the apostle does.

Actually, looking back on it, if I found myself in that situation...well:


"Alright I'm ready for the game. What's everyone else playing?"

"I'm playing a Frenzied Berserker!"

"I'm playing a Kender Rogue!"

"...I guess I'm playing an Apostle of Peace, then, just to survive in a party with you two."

Kraken
2015-10-21, 12:35 AM
Incontrovertible evidence (such as his sword mysteriously passing through it) will let him see through the illusion without making a save. It will buy you a round (two if he cannot reach it in one round) but isn't a permanent solution.

The image isn't static, you can make it react appropriately to being struck - or make it move out of the way to not be struck, arguably. And because we're talking about silent image, you of course need to pick something that plausibly could have a sword pass through it and live, and also wouldn't make sound, like a shadow, wraith, ghost, or other incorporeal undead. Or an incredibly nimble assassin mime, if your DM rules that you can make your illusion dodge.

ZamielVanWeber
2015-10-21, 12:53 AM
The image isn't static, you can make it react appropriately to being struck - or make it move out of the way to not be struck, arguably. And because we're talking about silent image, you of course need to pick something that plausibly could have a sword pass through it and live, and also wouldn't make sound, like a shadow, wraith, ghost, or other incorporeal undead. Or an incredibly nimble assassin mime, if your DM rules that you can make your illusion dodge.

Nothing about the spell says you can move it when it is not your turn. That aside there is no way a Frenzied Berserker can identify an incorporeal undead as such, which causes a rules hiccup: if he cannot identify it he will be unable to determine as to why his attack passed through it: the only possible answer is that it doesn't exist and thus he cuts through the illusion.

As to it dodging do illusions like that have an AC based on its size? I am not sure but it would be relevant.

Troacctid
2015-10-21, 01:08 AM
Nothing about the spell says you can move it when it is not your turn. That aside there is no way a Frenzied Berserker can identify an incorporeal undead as such, which causes a rules hiccup: if he cannot identify it he will be unable to determine as to why his attack passed through it: the only possible answer is that it doesn't exist and thus he cuts through the illusion.

Just tell him it's a ghost. It's not like he has Sense Motive as a class skill.

AvatarVecna
2015-10-21, 01:09 AM
Just tell him it's a ghost. It's not like he has Sense Motive as a class skill that he can attempt checks on while frenzying.

Even better.

Kraken
2015-10-21, 01:45 AM
Nothing about the spell says you can move it when it is not your turn.

In practice, combat in D&D plays out in games like Chrono Trigger and other video games where only one person seems to be moving at a time.
That's not how combat in D&D works from a roleplaying perspective, though, everything in one round is taking place simultaneously, your perspective here is completely wrong.


That aside there is no way a Frenzied Berserker can identify an incorporeal undead as such, which causes a rules hiccup: if he cannot identify it he will be unable to determine as to why his attack passed through it: the only possible answer is that it doesn't exist and thus he cuts through the illusion.


Just tell him it's a ghost. It's not like he has Sense Motive as a class skill.

Neither will he likely be investing his few skill ranks to knowledge (religion), also cross class. I think we all agree that it's very unlikely the FB will have much understanding of incorporeal undead, but I find your claim based on that to be dubious. Let's say they're fighting a real wraith (or whatever). The FB swings, their blade goes clean through, and they don't affect the shadow because of the 50% chance of magic weapons working. In world filled with an incredible variety of fantastical creatures, which at a minimum of level 7, the FB has no doubt seen many of by now, I don't think the FB would doubt the existence of the creature in front of them for even a second. With that in mind, I find it doubtful that swinging a sword through an illusory wraith would incite a different reaction or thought process. But, even if that were the case, there's a very simple workaround: have someone in the party tell the FB about wraiths (at least one of you will have ranks in knowledge (religion) hopefully). Boom, the FB now knows that their sword passing through is normal, and thus that can no longer be taken as proof that the wraith is a mere illusion.

But like I alluded to earlier with assassin mimes, you can get creative with it. The FB will likely have little ability to discern truth from lies. Create an illusory recurring foe for him, and convince him that he's haunted, and occasionally when he frenzies, it will summon his ghostly nemesis, which he must then defeat.

Sacrieur
2015-10-21, 02:00 AM
In practice, combat in D&D plays out in games like Chrono Trigger and other video games where only one person seems to be moving at a time.
That's not how combat in D&D works from a roleplaying perspective, though, everything in one round is taking place simultaneously, your perspective here is completely wrong.

On the contrary that's how the rules work. You can't take actions when it's not your turn with the exception of speaking and immediate actions. You can't even stop concentrating on a spell when it isn't your turn.

Should it be necessary to make the silent image react to something, then you can use a readied action to move the image around (as a free action).

---

It doesn't matter how in the roleplaying perspective you see it working, because that's not argument to change the rules.

Susano-wo
2015-10-21, 02:14 AM
One thing that has not been suggested is, if the FB does not have flight: Levitate. levitate him before he considers you a foe, (probably need to bar him from ranged weapons as well :smallbiggrin:)pop him up 20 ft once the enemies have been taken out, and let him wait it out.:smalltongue:

AvatarVecna
2015-10-21, 02:17 AM
One thing that has not been suggested is, if the FB does not have flight: Levitate. levitate him before he considers you a foe, (probably need to bar him from ranged weapons as well :smallbiggrin:)pop him up 20 ft once the enemies have been taken out, and let him wait it out.:smalltongue:

If the enemy has been taken out, he's likely already frenzied, and isn't considered willing; once he starts frenzying, he has preferred targeting, but that doesn't make him friendly towards the party while frenzying just because there's some enemies nearby.

Kraken
2015-10-21, 02:20 AM
On the contrary that's how the rules work. You can't take actions when it's not your turn with the exception of speaking and immediate actions. You can't even stop concentrating on a spell when it isn't your turn.

Should it be necessary to make the silent image react to something, then you can use a readied action to move the image around (as a free action).

---

It doesn't matter how in the roleplaying perspective you see it working, because that's not argument to change the rules.

This is not an interpretation of the rules that I would ever expect to see at a real table, because I'm not talking about taking an action, I'm talking about an action that you've already made (concentrating on the spell, manipulating the image isn't a separate one) continuing throughout a combat round. If I were to cast silent image and say 'I summon a wraith to fight angry Bob,' and haven't ceased to concentrate on the spell, I would expect it to work as I've described. Though I consider this part of the discussion academic, because as mentioned, I don't really believe the FB would know enough about incorporeal undead for this to matter.

Suichimo
2015-10-21, 02:52 AM
I thought the normal trick was just drowning him a little bit.

Vizzerdrix
2015-10-21, 08:46 AM
Make his weapon out of shape sand, and have someone else be the creator of the weapon. Then when the FB gets out of hand, turn the weapon into a set of shackles.

Kelb_Panthera
2015-10-21, 02:29 PM
So...a self-righteous holier-than-thou hippie caster is in a party with an uncontrollable rage monster and a standard Kender Rogue. I'm pretty sure this is the point where most DMs would throw in the towel...or flip the table.

That sounds like a pitch for a fantasy sitcom.

Also, why are fantasy sitcoms not more of a thing outside of anime?

Yogibear41
2015-10-21, 10:09 PM
Barbarian 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berserker 1

+1 base will save, +2 will save raging, endurance +steadfast determination = 5+ while raging(assuming base 16 con), Iron Will +2, Greater Resistance cast by your 7th level cleric buddy +3, +1 Detached Trait.

1+2+5+2+3+1= +14 will save at level 7

Toss in Mage Slayer to bring it up to +15, Bear's Endurance or Amulet of Health can raise it even higher.
Once you get to about level 10 you should make the save pretty much always as long as you don't roll a 1.

Nifft
2015-10-21, 10:14 PM
Is there anyway to stop a frenzied berserker without killing him?
Is there any REASON to stop a frenzied berserker without killing him?

Seriously, if a character is deliberately endangering the lives of the rest of the party, then the rest of the party is quite justified in endangering that character's life right back.

daremetoidareyo
2015-10-21, 10:33 PM
summon monster 2 may do the trick. 1d3 things that he has to kill instead of ya'll. Those creatures are instructed to fight defensively and are directed to keep themselves to getting chased further and further away from the other party members, who then take the opportunity to hide.

This works with flying berserkers too.

I suggest teamwork benefits for the rest of the people in the party. If your DM rules that the frenzy is a compulsion effect, DMG2 has the teamwork benefit entitled "snap out of it." Which allows other party members to make a full round action to give the barbarian an additional save attempt.

If dragon mag is allowed, a heartfire fanner can grant the use of any fighter bonus feat, which can be martial study, which can be iron heart surge.

And lastly, maybe a cerebral hood from fiend folio can dip his intelligence down to zero for a bit while mind blasting during the battle. If he begins attacking the crew, he has permission to mind blast the berserker, stunning him for 1d4 rounds. Which is hopefully enough for him to end the rage. Then you just need a wand of lesser restoration and a caster, bing bang boom. Actually, the cerebral hood would make him look so scary. Plus, those mind blasts are really effective helpers at lower levels and if you can dark chaos shuffle off the really crappy feats for the cerebral hood, you could have a best buddy.