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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other A way to even the playground / power level for pure non magical melee builds



tsj
2015-10-20, 01:39 AM
the concept is that this is a template that will be freely applied to any charecter that has a pure base attack bonus and no magical or psionic capabilities what so ever... the soulknife could perhaps be allowed to get this since he has no actual psionic powers...

the fluff is something along the lines of genetic advantages that manifest over time, some bloodline thing and
that due to the nature of the inner workings of the genetic advantages, any charecter who decides to gain magical or psionic abilities will automatically lose any benefits from this template...

MELEE TEMPLATE

(genetic template that works for pure non magical melee charecters,
it is free and applies to any race)

CLASS LEVEL; BONUS FEATS; FIRE, COLD, ELECTRICITY, ACID AND SONIC RESISTANCE

1; toughness, improved toughness, proficient will all weapons, armors and shields; 0%
2; improved initiative, mage slayer, trap sense, scent; 5%
3; iron will, steadfast determination, lucky:reroll dices per day equal to your BAB;10%
4; ambidexterity, fast draw, spell resistance, blind sense; 15%
5; blindt fight, pierce magical concealment; 20%
6; pierce magical armor, Martial Study: Devoted Spirit; 25%
7; Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades, power attack; 30%
8; improved bull rush, shock trooper; 35%
9; dodge, mobility, combat reflexes; 40%
10; evasion, uncanny dodge; 45%
11; Occult tracker, witchhunt (+1/1d6); 50%
12; combat expertise, pushback ; 55%
13; escape the cage, witchhunt (+2/1d6); 60%
14; disturb spells, improved trip, sweaping trip; 65%
15; mind cage, witchhunt (+3/2d6), combat focus; 70%
16; bind magic, improved escape the cage, improved sunder; 75%
17; witchhunt (+4/2d6), combat vigor, knock-down; 80%
18; improved occult tracker, leap attack, point blank shot; 85%
19; anti-magic barrier 2/day, witchhunt (+5/3d6), rapid reload, whirlwind attack; 90%
20; witchslayer, tumble, STR+2, DEX+2; 95%

the % is interpreted as, there is a % chance that you will suffer no effects

the order of the feats are more or less random at this time and would perhaps need to be rearranged...

another reason for this is also that even a fighter will all his bonus feats, cannot afford to spend them all on becoming anti mage like...

will a 3.5 level 20 Fighter be able to slay a 3.5 level 20 Wizard if the fighter had this template and they both had access to all 3.5 splat books and the wizard had access to all spells ?

or would the fighter need something even more godlike power to be able to compete using pure melee ?

what happends if the wizard uses timestop, Shapechangy, Contingency or Tenser Transformation ? or any of the other wild stuff that wizards can do ?

it is inspired by this thread: 204945-3-5-Wizard-vs-Fighter and many many more like it... it seems obvious that pure melee charecters are badly underpowered compared to casters... so I wish to offset that without having to use an entirely different system like Mutants & Masterminds or something similar...

many of the feats are from : Magehunter (3.5e Prestige Class)

and by a personal desire to ensure that pure melee charecters in my games can feel and be just as powerfull as any spell caster....
I am aware that it will affect the power level of the PCs, but I can just make the monsters and guards and whatnot tweaked to be more nasty ... and commoners.. well... they will always be easy to slay anyhows....

My main concern here is to make a pure melee charecter just as powerfull as a caster.

what are your thoughts on this? to powerfull? not powerfull enough? can a fighter slay a wizard with this?

Solaris
2015-10-20, 09:10 PM
My main concern here is to make a pure melee charecter just as powerfull as a caster.

Bigger numbers aren't why spellcasters are more powerful. If you look at the Tome of Battle, widely lauded for reducing the gap between casters and warriors, you'll note that the damage maneuvers deal really isn't that high - that's not how they closed the gap, although damage-dealing maneuvers certainly are nice to have and can be a lot of fun. No, the way they reduced the gap is by making warriors more versatile. Spellcasters outclass everyone else because they have a plethora of options available to them, whereas warriors have (without ToB) only attack, full attack, and a handful of combat options of dubious merit (many of which casters can do better with spells anyways).


what are your thoughts on this? to powerfull? not powerfull enough? can a fighter slay a wizard with this?

I think that, aside from some wonky mechanics, trying to gauge balance as "Can this class kill that class?" is completely missing the point of the game and failing to recognize what makes classes good or bad, strong or weak. Wizards aren't more powerful because they can beat a fighter in a fight; in many cases, the exact opposite is true. Wizards are more powerful because they can do more. They have a wide range of problem-solving capabilities and can do a lot more to opponents than just deal lots of damage to them. Attempting to remedy the gap by making fighters better at witch-slaying is going to fail, for the reasons I've mentioned above, and it's bringing a PvP emphasis into it which isn't aligned with the core premise of D&D. It doesn't matter if the fighter's great at killing wizards, because he was always able to kill stuff. In fact, that's all he's ever been able to do.

Piling loads and loads of abilities at random also... lacks elegance. It's very kludgy, and it drowns out everything about the chosen class. When it comes to designing a game, especially a homebrewed rule, less is more.

tsj
2015-10-21, 01:04 AM
Yes, you are correct, versatility is key. I studied some classes made by bekeleven and must admit that
it is not a matter of being able to do insane amounts of damage, though that is always fun....
But I will most likely choose to use bekeleven's "The Professional" class for melee charecters.

Or parhaps a slightly enhanced version of it, in regards to power but mostly in regards to additional versatility if possible :smallsmile:

Do you know of other homebrew melee only classes with high versatility ?

roko10
2015-10-21, 04:43 AM
Yes, you are correct, versatility is key. I studied some classes made by bekeleven and must admit that
it is not a matter of being able to do insane amounts of damage, though that is always fun....
But I will most likely choose to use bekeleven's "The Professional" class for melee charecters.

Or parhaps a slightly enhanced version of it, in regards to power but mostly in regards to additional versatility if possible :smallsmile:

Do you know of other homebrew melee only classes with high versatility ?

The Mythos Classes by Xefas fits the bill, as well as the hypermundanes by Jorm.