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F.H. Zebedee
2007-05-24, 08:55 AM
Okay, my group's Barbarian style character has been discussing with me the possibility of a new ability for him due to a mage screwing around with him to try and learn more about Barbarian rages.

Basically, we've decided to give him a sort of rage like ability in addition to normal rage. We're thinking same duration as rage, and a similar effect, but this is Rage taken to the next level. He's tapping beyond his limits so far that it literally is destroying his body.

We're thinking since this ability literally is killing him, it will deal permanent Con damage, probably 1 point each time he uses it, and Fatigues him afterward. So, in exchange, what kind of stat boosts would be reasonable for the duration of the effect (He's around level 12 right now, btw.)

NullAshton
2007-05-24, 08:59 AM
By permanent CON drain do you mean Constitution Drain, recoverable by 100 of diamond dust and a 4th level spell? Or CON damage, with 2 points recovering a day, or a 2nd level spell that restores 1d4 points of ability damage per casting? Or CON burn, which cannot be healed magically and can only be healed by natural recovery? Or permanent CON loss like if you get ressurected at level 1, which really sucks? Depends on which type.

F.H. Zebedee
2007-05-24, 09:09 AM
We're thinking permanent Con loss, maybe restorable by way of wish or miracle, but little else.

NullAshton
2007-05-24, 09:28 AM
Well, that's very nasty then. A permanent loss of HP, not restorable in barely any way? I'd probably give him a temporary +10 boost to strength and constitution, and double his critical range. But make him lose 2 constitution when it's all over

goat
2007-05-24, 09:29 AM
That's pretty damaging. He's not going to have the option of using that more than 3 or 4 times before he really starts feeling it, it'll start seriously damaging his normal rage times.

If you're going to give him the option of doing it, it's going to have to have some almightly benefits. I'd not even consider it unless it was a fight winner in a situation that would otherwise be approaching TPK.

F.H. Zebedee
2007-05-24, 10:06 AM
Yeah, it's basically desperation/final battle material. The +10 STR/CON and x2 Crit range sounds pretty nice. Think I may add a 20 foot speed increase to make him a real unholy terror, but beyond that, keep it pretty much a normal rage. (I dunno, I may also bump up his saves and AC by a considerable ammount, maybe 2 or so.)

Thanks for the help thusfar, everybody.

Tormsskull
2007-05-24, 10:31 AM
Yeah, that is rather nasty for the barbarian. I'd give him everything you said except the increased AC. Instead of that I'd give him DR increase of 5/-.

rollfrenzy
2007-05-24, 11:34 AM
You may also think about making it a "Cold Rage" Where he goes so far beyond the normal rage that all emotions Shut off. All the screaming and yelling die off and his face becomes blank with only his eyes showing anyhting, and they are locked on whatever caused the rage.

In game terms, allow him to still use all the feats and skills he has access too, instead of limiting his options like the normal rage, but only as far as they apply to killing or getting to whatever caused the rage. I would give him immunity to mind affecting spells and effects.

If you are gonna drain con permanently, he is only ever gonna use this once or twice, so it should be on par with a ninth level spell at least.

An alternative to permanent con may be xp drain and make it less potent.

Yechezkiel
2007-05-24, 11:50 AM
I suggest giving him his original Con + Rage bonuses while raging, but taking it away whenever he's not in Rage.

Person_Man
2007-05-24, 12:10 PM
I'd give him the Frenzy ability. The built in restriction on Frenzy (it's automatically set off if you take damage unless you make an insane Will save) should balance it out nicely.

Another option is that you greatly improve his Rage ability, but at the end of his Rage he is Exhausted (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/abilitiesAndConditions.html#exhausted), not just Fatigued. This is a serious drawback, since he'll need magical healing or an hour of rest after every combat, and it fits very nicely into your "its literally killing him" fluff, without screwing the player by dealing Con damage.

SpiderBrigade
2007-05-24, 12:11 PM
I suggest giving him his original Con + Rage bonuses while raging, but taking it away whenever he's not in Rage.Oooh, I like that. So as he levels up he becomes more and more uber while Raging....but his body is drained by the extreme anger he channels, and he is weakened the rest of the time.

Of course, this should still assume that he chooses to use the Mega-Rage ability, rather than it replacing his normal Rage. So it will be saved for big battles, and have a very flavorful long-term (permanent!) drawback associated with it. He'll get a chance to roleplay the struggle with temptation, the way his character must always weigh the addictive power of the Mega-Rage with the knowledge that he's gradually burning himself out.

In such a version, I would re-design the ability somewhat. Make it +10 to Strength and Con, +20 to movement, and temporary Powerful Build (you are treated as one size larger when it would help you). Otherwise identical to Rage. This is usable once/week without penalty. Any additional uses give you a permanent -2 penalty to Con for each such use. When Mega-Raging, this penalty is ignored.

I like the idea of allowing it to be used very rarely without penalty, to represent the body's natural energy reserves or what have you. But if you don't take the time to replenish that, the ability breaks down your body to fuel its power, in a way that can't be cured.

Of course, players really hate permanent penalties. There are very few things in the RAW that can't be removed by proper application of restorative magic (or Wish, in some cases.) But I think in this case you have to stand firm, because the idea is for the ability to be really good. If you reduce the penalty to be healable, you'd have to make it less awesome or it'd be broken.

JoeFredBob
2007-05-24, 04:14 PM
You could make a very long penalty, rather than a permanent one. Massive bonuses while mega-raging, but each one applies a cumulative penalty for the next 24-48 hours, which is ignored while mega-raging, and can't be removed by any other means short of a wish or miracle.

This means that you might see him getting into the habit of using it, and then being more and more screwed if he's not using it, which makes him use it more, etc. It would be amusing.

SpiderBrigade
2007-05-24, 04:35 PM
Yah, JoeFredBob, that's exactly the kind of addictive/destructive dynamic I think would be awesome. You'd have the guy practically dead, but convinced he has to mega-rage one last time to win the current battle...with his party members staging interventions because they don't want him to die...

just awesome.

JaronK
2007-05-24, 04:38 PM
It might work better to just take levels of the Frenized Berserker class...

JaronK

Jasdoif
2007-05-24, 05:32 PM
Yah, JoeFredBob, that's exactly the kind of addictive/destructive dynamic I think would be awesome. You'd have the guy practically dead, but convinced he has to mega-rage one last time to win the current battle...with his party members staging interventions because they don't want him to die...

just awesome.In the interests of the dramatics of this, I do have an idea...each time you use this uber-rage, you take...1d4 points of ability burn to Constitution. And if this takes your Con to 0, you get triple the normal bonuses (+30 to Str and Con) and the usual duration for the improved Con (13 rounds)...but you're dead when the rage ends, and thanks to the super bonuses you know the clock is ticking.

The roll on the burn amount is so you don't necessarily know if your next rage will be your last.

CaptainSam
2007-05-24, 06:15 PM
Simon R. Green has a similar thing in the Deathstalker books, called the Boost. Sounds the same as what you're aiming for. It increases speed, dexterity, power and so forth. Using it too much will kill the user.

The other down side is that it is extremely addictive. The more you use it, the more you want to use it, even though you know that it will kill you. Make the barbarian roll a Will save to avoid going into mega-rage when he's raging perhaps?