The Ancestral Greenhilt Sword

[dmaxno]

I used to think that the Greenhilt sword was a +5 undead bane sword (+6 enhancement), but after seeing the massive damage it inflicted on the last strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1009.html) (and despite knowing that the plot is not limited by rules) I am going to say it acts more like the following, SRD-based made up sword with an effective enhancement of +8 (arguably +7):

+5 ancestral positive energy(*) greatsword
(*)-Not a permanent effect, only when drawn by the righteous rage of a good-aligned descendant.

We know it is a +5 sword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html) in all respects, but it sometimes has a devastating effect on undead - a special ability. From the latest strip, it seems this special ability is more damaging than a bane sword (a mere +2D6 is not enough for that huge wound on a powerful creature like the HPoH).
In the SRD the best-fitting special ability I saw happens to be the ability of a specific weapon, the sunblade (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#sunBlade). A sunblade has a regular +2 enhancement bonus but against negative-energy creatures (like the undead) it has a devastating effect: +4 enhancement with double-damage, triple on a critical. As I recall, double damage is more than +2D6 (for Roy) because it also applies to all other enhancements and bonuses (like Strength and feats). Given its cost being very close to a total +5 enhancement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#tableWeapons), I think it is fair to claim that a sunblade is a +2 sword with special abilities equivalent to a +3 enhancement. Hence, similar special abilities in Roy's sword would add a +3 enhancement bonus.

A sun blade also has a sunlight power, which I am can't quite calculate, but will note that calling upon the sunlight power is strikingly similar to how Roy brings the anti-undead green glow (although a different effect, the procedure is similar). Perhaps once could argue that the green-glow, if it is a positive-energy effect (just green due to the ancestry), then it could have a (mild?) healing effect on the wielder instead of a sunlight effect.
In my opinion, the fact that the Greenhilt sword's green glow effect is temporary, that it does not have the sunlight effect, and that it may need to be wielded by someone of the ancestral line would make this a +7 instead of a +8. To start a discussion I am taking the more conservative approach and calling it a +8.

Also, notice that when the sword is reforged, Roy conveniently swears an oath upon his ancestral sword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0298.html).

[Rift_Wolf]

Interesting hypothesis, but the green glow is a side effect from reforging with starmetal. It's not an intended enhancement, and the Swordsmith was going to remove it. If anything, it's more 'oddly serendipitous flaw' than anything.
I don't think starmetal enhancements follow srd rules. It follows story rules, which don't roll dice. It follows rule of cool, which has no stat block.

[Murk]

Interesting hypothesis, but the green glow is a side effect from reforging with starmetal. It's not an intended enhancement, and the Swordsmith was going to remove it. If anything, it's more 'oddly serendipitous flaw' than anything.

Makes you wonder why the swordsmith wanted to get rid of it. It seems like a fairly potent side ability.
I guess the green glow would harm Roy, too, if he were undead himself. But even then it seems like a power adventurers would pay a lot of money for, not something you want to "counteract".

This green glow must have some nasty side effect. Nothing else would make sense! Nothing!!

[dmaxno]

Makes you wonder why the swordsmith wanted to get rid of it. It seems like a fairly potent side ability.
I guess the green glow would harm Roy, too, if he were undead himself. But even then it seems like a power adventurers would pay a lot of money for, not something you want to "counteract". Nothing!!

I thought that part was mostly for the purpose of the joke in that panel. Roy quite clearly shows the green glow is a positive thing he wants to keep. Perhaps it is not proper for an azure-city blade to glow green instead of blue? Blacksmiths can be quirky. it is interesting the blacksmith had enough knowledge to know the side effect. Perhaps it was not understood fully.

[littlebum2002]

(a mere +2D6 is not enough for that huge wound on a powerful creature like the HPoH).

Really? So how much damage, exactly, is required to make a wound that big?

[NerdyKris]

Makes you wonder why the swordsmith wanted to get rid of it. It seems like a fairly potent side ability.
I guess the green glow would harm Roy, too, if he were undead himself. But even then it seems like a power adventurers would pay a lot of money for, not something you want to "counteract".

This green glow must have some nasty side effect. Nothing else would make sense! Nothing!!

Yeah, I think that was just a joke, and not a legitimate clue about the glow. Otherwise he would have led with the actual nasty side effect, and not a side effect nearly everyone would be totally okay with.

[Talion]

I could see two primary drawbacks to the green glow:

First and foremost, it acts as a visual cue for any undead and their allies that something is amiss. For example, the green glow popping up in the middle of a graveyard, alerting all of the undead in the area to the user. A lot of undead are weak individually, but as we saw in the battle for Azure City, being outnumbered by a large enough margin is dangerous even to higher level entities. Further, they could have some reasonably powerful allies (a necromancer or a vampire for example). Combined, this creates a relatively dangerous situation for the user, depending on how many entities would be needed to be considered properly outnumbered. The damage bonus is great, but it doesn't trigger with every attack, and a low level or unlucky adventurer might find themselves in over their heads. However, this is also no different from any other flashy technique the user might employ.

The second potential drawback to the green glow would be some as of yet undisclosed backfire effect it has. This might be with every glowing swing. It might trigger on critical failures. Or it might slowly build up as a random backlash for X damage after so many uses over so much time. It might even be something more long term, such as detriments from long term radioactive exposure. This is far from guaranteed. The only person who has known anything concrete about the Starmetal in the OotS world was the one who proposed removing the green glow. Further, with Roy being able to take as much of a beating as he can, he might not notice 1 or 2 points of damage being tallied off every so many swings, least of all in comparison to his other damage sources. But it still remains a possibility.

Honestly without more information that can be inferred from what we see in the comic or told to us directly, we may not be able to find the real reason why it would be considered detrimental.

[Rift_Wolf]

Actually thinking about it, a weapon that emits a bright light you can't control is a big drawback. In a typical dungeon setting, anything that could attract the attention of that Dungeons inhabitants would be seen by PCs as unnecessary. And I doubt there's too many Undead round azure city, seeing as those 1st level Paladins don't level themselves. The Swordsmith might've considered the drawback of the green glow overall more important than the situationally useful Undead damage.

[NerdyKris]

The second potential drawback to the green glow would be some as of yet undisclosed backfire effect it has. This might be with every glowing swing. It might trigger on critical failures. Or it might slowly build up as a random backlash for X damage after so many uses over so much time. It might even be something more long term, such as detriments from long term radioactive exposure.

But why wouldn't the blacksmith have said that instead of "It damages undead"? There's only three real options here:


The glow might give the wielder away, which is understandable but I don't think that's what he meant.
The blacksmith is so stupid that he thinks a side effect that damages the opponent is bad but neglects to mention one that damages the user.
It was an joke in a humor comic based on the irony of calling a benefit a drawback. (irony = using a word to mean something other than it's intended meaning)

[Vinyadan]

Or the healing ability may trigger on a crit combined with a power attack.

[Rift_Wolf]

Warning: repeated nonlethal exposure to starmetal energy will force Creatures with intelligence above 3 to multiclass into Green Star Adept.

I think we can all agree this is the most chilling scenario.

[zimmerwald1915]

Warning: repeated nonlethal exposure to starmetal energy will force Creatures with intelligence above 3 to multiclass into Green Star Adept.

I think we can all agree this is the most chilling scenario.
Well, Roy does have ranks in Knowledge (architecture and engineering). Unfortunately for this theory, he doesn't have arcane caster levels.

[Talion]

But why wouldn't the blacksmith have said that instead of "It damages undead"? There's only three real options here:


The glow might give the wielder away, which is understandable but I don't think that's what he meant.
The blacksmith is so stupid that he thinks a side effect that damages the opponent is bad but neglects to mention one that damages the user.
It was an joke in a humor comic based on the irony of calling a benefit a drawback. (irony = using a word to mean something other than it's intended meaning)


It's not the most likely scenario, but there does remain the possibility. If memory serves correctly, the OotS world is fairly young. If the sword were radioactive, the most likely of the self damaging options, they're unlikely to know what radioactivity is, much less its effects on the body. This, combined with the rareness of Star Metal, could introduce an interesting effect on the Blacksmith's Knowledge roll concerning the metal. He might recognize that it isn't entirely safe for the user, referencing that it gives off a 'deadly green energy' (that is in their own words, "particularly harmful to undead"). As we see with Roy's fight with Sabine, this does not mean it is limited to the undead.

Also, I never said it wasn't a joke. It is obviously intended as such. I just wanted to propose reasons on why it might not necessarily be only a joke in relevance to Murk's post. (Also, in the last panel of the comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html) in question, Roy seems a little too worried about what the blacksmith is saying for it to be just an offhand joke. Similarly the blacksmith seems entirely serious. This leads us to believe that either, as you suggested, the blacksmith is indeed that stupid, thus calling into question his ability to use the Craft Skill to the degree shown, or that something else is amiss.)

[theasl]

I don't think that the blacksmith is serious because she thinks it's bad; she does not say anything that indicates whether the effect is good or not. It's Roy's sarcastic reaction to her informing him that there is a side effect. Really, it's Roy's fault, because he assumes that it will be bad, and the blacksmith assumes Roy knows enough about it to think it is bad.

So, stop calling the blacksmith stupid, and start calling Roy stupid.

[dmaxno]

Warning: repeated nonlethal exposure to starmetal energy will force Creatures with intelligence above 3 to multiclass into Green Star Adept.

I think we can all agree this is the most chilling scenario.
I agree, this would be awesome.

I do like adding an element of it being an ancestral weapon. Roy does care about it being his ancestral sword.


Or the healing ability may trigger on a crit combined with a power attack.
Yes, there could be a few ways of triggering a healing effect. that would be a somewhat realistic option with a greatsword, you'd expect a lot of offense and at the same time the healing should not simply occur with every swing (too powerful).


About the green glow: I think the blacksmith may have other reasons besides the joke. Perhaps in a city full of ninjas a glowing effect is undesireable (similar to Talion's comment of the glow giving you away in a dungeon). I would still think it was mostly a joke and not a considerable negative effect 9graned, on little information)

Edit: Added comment on green glow

[facw]

This green glow must have some nasty side effect. Nothing else would make sense! Nothing!!
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/metallurgy.png
alt text: This exotic blade was wrought from a different fallen star. The meteorite was a carbonaceous chondrite, so it's basically a lump of gravel glued into the shape of a sword. A SPACE sword!

From xkcd of course (https://xkcd.com/1114/)

[WindStruck]

Well what I get from the explanation is that the sword first and foremost "may glow with a deadly energy". That energy is particularly harmful to the undead.. but I gather that it also does harm other living things, just not to such an extent.

Perhaps a problem for a smith of the sapphire guard is that swords that glow with deadly energy aren't always good for paladins. This is because, they'd normally try to subdue criminals without killing, right? Maybe this was a concern before they all had to fight an army of hobgoblins and hordes of sea monsters.

Anyway, I don't think the blacksmith was going to remove the effect. I think she was going to explain what Roy could do to suppress it. It would probably be along the lines of "do not attack in anger".

[Vinyadan]

Perhaps a problem for a smith of the sapphire guard is that swords that glow with deadly energy aren't always good for paladins. This is because, they'd normally try to subdue criminals without killing, right?

Maybe it's because it's green. It is Azure City, after all. :smallbiggrin: