A Dragon That Has Taken a Vow of Poverty

[walfulninja]

I think this would be very interesting to roleplay. Why would a dragon forsake all wealth? How would it act because of this?



Clarification: I don't mean the feat Vow of Poverty, just a dragon that has taken a vow to refuse all wealth.

[JNAProductions]

It's insane?

[A Tad Insane]

The most plausible thing I could think of, outside of being cursed in some manner, is that the dragon has the long term goal of learning as much about magic as it can so it can eventually become invincible and rule the world, and it believes other dragons are it, so it doesn't acquire a hoard so other dragons would have no reason to attack it.

[Bomaz]

It might see wealth as the thing that has made most dragons very complacent (they really aren't up and about all that much) and so has chosen to forsake wealth for itself. Perhaps it even sees it as what caused the age of dragons to end.

[Talion]

First and foremost, having a huge amount of wealth sitting around is just asking for an adventuring party to show up and kill it for profit. Doubly so if there is a bounty on it.

That being said, this opens the dragon up to other possibilities. Since going off to kill the dragon is suddenly a lot more cost-inefficient, we're probably looking at a dragon that is genuinely concerned with its own well being. As such, it might also look into making a deal with the other inhabitants of the area. In exchange for a consistent and agreeable food supply, and assurances that it won't be bothered in its lair, it may agree to serve as protection against bandits and other dangers that affect the region. It could also arrange for other benefits, such as entertainment or servants for similar considerations, such as the right to sell its old, worn, and shed claws, scales, and teeth, among other things. Depending on the size and wealth of the region, simply supplying the dragon with its basic needs will likely be less costly than it burning down the country side and anything that stands in its way. Moreso if the dragon is able to produce some of this itself through its magic. This also allows the dragon to follow more scholarly pursuits and perhaps even extend a friendly claw to its neighbors and act as a teacher, again for considerations such as building and maintaining a dragon friendly library.

From there, things can go anywhere from a simple stay at home and wander about aimlessly dragon to one who's preparing to marshal an army, and its well rested and well supplied self, against a hated rival.

[Honest Tiefling]

Maybe the dragon has taken a vow to reject material wealth? There are good aligned dragons, so it would not be implausible that one...Might do good aligned things with that pile o' gold it is sitting on, rather then hoarding it?

Perhaps this dragon used its wealth to make a refuge for a certain race that faces prejudice from the outside world. The refuge itself would be beautiful, but also provide for a comfortable life for those driven away from other places, finally giving them a sense of peace. The dragon might trade the wealth of the horde for other forms of wealth, be it art produced by grateful refuges, or in the form of speaking to the dragon, or even knowledge.

Brass dragons value speech, copper dragons value jokes, and bronze dragons value responsibility. The latter might have given up a horde to provide for descendants or followers or helpers of one of their own kind, while the other two might be more amused by the company of others while doing the right thing by protecting them.

[Regitnui]

Well, the most plausible way I could see that happening is if the dragon valued some other object more than wealth; maintaining a village of humanoids near their lair and making sure they're all happy and healthy like a fantasy version of the Sims.

[Honest Tiefling]

Well, the most plausible way I could see that happening is if the dragon valued some other object more than wealth; maintaining a village of humanoids near their lair and making sure they're all happy and healthy like a fantasy version of the Sims.

Well, hopefully minus the fire, ghosts, alien abductions, constant urination, and abandoning babies in the street.

Through what prevents a posh dragon from settling in a city? They deserve no less, and they can easily surround themselves with poets, artists, intellectuals and scholars as is fitting for their majesty.

[The Glyphstone]

Well, hopefully minus the fire, ghosts, alien abductions, constant urination, and abandoning babies in the street.

Through what prevents a posh dragon from settling in a city? They deserve no less, and they can easily surround themselves with poets, artists, intellectuals and scholars as is fitting for their majesty.

Substitute aliens for orcs/fey/demons/etc. and you basically have life in a D&D village anyways, so it's pretty accurate when you think about it.

[Honest Tiefling]

Substitute aliens for orcs/fey/demons/etc. and you basically have life in a D&D village anyways, so it's pretty accurate when you think about it.

I'd like to think that good aligned creatures are prevented from removing the outhouse just to see the two-legs do a crazy little dance until they soil themselves.

I guess insanity might be one reason that a dragon would get rid of their wealth. It was suggested before, but an insane dragon controlling a small population of people (or even animals) and forcing them to obey impossible or insane demands. Add in illusions and this would probably work as some sort of hook.

[Traab]

A dragon who has a bigger goal in mind. He doesnt want to accumulate wealth, because then he has to waste time protecting it and dealing with treasure seekers. Instead he is concentrating on mastering his magic, growing stronger, gathering knowledge, whatever.

[Winds]

They feel other things are more important.

Magic has been mentioned, of course. Though what about a crusading mindset? If you aren't wasting time on gathering and guarding a hoard, you have an awful lot of time to serve a deity's interests...Though the main ones that would demand such services are Evil.

...Maybe it's just as well that isn't the baseline.



Another thing might be martial skill: A dragon doesn't need much by way of gear...so they could be out to prove the well-known superiority of dragons in a slightly different field.

[TheCountAlucard]

Perhaps it's attempting to live a life of asceticism through shedding material wealth to gain enlightenment?

Nah, nobody's gonna do that. :smalltongue:

[nedz]

Same reason as anyone else.

They could be a rebellious draconic iconoclast.

They could be pious, seeking only the spiritual side of life.

They could have been addicted to gambling, say, and want to make a fresh start.

...

[Shalist]

A greedy and foolish dragon once thought to increase its hoard by kidnapping the child of an exceptionally powerful diviner, demanding as ransom wealth "equal to the value you place on this one's life." Angered, the archwizard was happy to acquiesce, though she insisted that the dragon never reveal her secrets nor spend this ill-gotten wealth. Not being overly bothered by this, and suspecting the wizard would not agree otherwise, the dragon agreed.

After various mystical oaths were exchanged, the wizard took them to some of the more obscure regions of the Elemental Plane of Earth (Minerals), revealing to the greedy wyrm literally endless rivers of gold, platinum, silver, mithril, and such, similarly plentiful veins and caverns of gemstones of every conceivable type, and more treasures besides. At first, the dragon was increasingly ecstatic, though his great intellect soon forced him to an unavoidable realization.

Namely, due to the infinite nature of these treasures, the wealth he had spent his existence obsessing over was ultimately as common and precious as dirt; endless rivers and caverns of shiny dirt! To the dragon, this struck far, far more deeply than merely losing a few baubles to some thief or misfortune, as such losses could eventually be recovered or replaced. This loss of...innocence was like having a piece of his soul brutally ripped away, as even the idea of accruing physical fortunes was irreversibly poisoned.

It took decades to begin coming to terms with this, though in some ways being freed of the delusions and obsessions has been quite liberating for the wyrm. These days, he can generally tolerate displays of opulence, and may even arrange for wealth to be used by others in his stead, though he will remain forever opposed to (and mildly nauseated by) the notion of accumulating it for himself.

(tl:dr: a dragon over-indulges its greed and gets sick of it.)

[GorinichSerpant]

"Wealth is useless, pointless baubles that rats kill each other over. Power is what matters, the power to control, to make, to burn. I am above the petty squabbles of mere mortals and the idiots who I won't even consider calling kin. I am truly the superior being, I am above these delusions, I am the mighty one, tremble before me!"

A Dragon could replace is prideful obsessiveness of treasure with a prideful obsession of being better then everyone else.

[Draconium]

Same reason as anyone else.

This.

A dragon often will hoard gold, for several reasons, among them an instinct given to it by it's heritage. However, dragons are still free-willed, intelligent, thinking creatures. Their nature may influence them one way, but they are free to choose any way they want.

Now, why they would choose to give up wealth depends on the dragon themselves. Perhaps they still hoard, but no longer hoard material wealth. Instead, perhaps they hoard knowledge, learning the secrets of the world. Or maybe magical power, making themselves unstoppable mages.

Or perhaps they have chosen to forsake their nature. Perhaps they choose to discard wealth to seek enlightenment. Or maybe it is a situation like Shalist presented, where they realize how pointless their hoarding is, and choose to forego it. Or maybe they were simply born without a lust for treasure, and never particularly wanted to seek it out in the first place.

[Suichimo]

In a bid for divinity, the dragon decides to enrich the lives of the lesser races. It builds massive towns, transportation systems, waterworks and spends much time learning and creating new forms of magic to make things more convenient. The people start to worship the dragon over the years, as per the plan, but it still isn't enough. The dragon then stumbles on to the myriad uses of the teleportation circle. The metropolis comes in to a new era of prosperity and growth. Soon, it has enveloped a majority of the planet and its people, the only ones not enthralled have now become savages.

The Tippyverse comes in to being with a dragon as its god.

[icefractal]

"Consider humanoids. They've accomplished much - built great cities, created powerful artifacts, discovered new forms of magic. Even if every last one were to vanish tomorrow, their legacy would remain."

"Now consider Dragons. We are superior to humanoids in every way. Smarter, stronger, longer-lived, more magically inclined. For everything one of them can do, a Dragon should be able to accomplish easily a hundred times as much. And so - what mark have Dragons made on the ages? Almost nothing. Much of what would be remembered is mere destruction, something any brute creature could do."

"So what causes this contradiction? What holds Dragons back from molding the world in our image? Gold. Gold and other shiny baubles, the opiate of the Draconic masses. Collect even a little, and its lure kicks in, tempting you to just one bit more, just another ruby, until it's centuries later and you've done nothing beyond accrue a pile of shiny garbage for whoever finds your corpse to collect."

"Cast aside the glitter, every last coin. Only then will you be free of the cloying hypnotism that blunts our potential."

[Regitnui]

I like the idea that dragons don't collect gold and jewels for their monetary value, but because the hard edges and cut planes make a sufficiently-sized pile of treasure feel like a knitted blanket to them. Then, a dragon could be entirely happy with the amount of treasure it already owns; a ton (for a great wyrm) or so, just spread out so the dragon can sprawl on it after a hard day of being the awesome apex predator they are.

[Jay R]

The dragon's parents, mate, and children were all slaughtered by treasure-hungry adventurers. So the last remaining dragon of the family has created a gigantic hoard, filling the many tunnels and passageways under the mountain, and now sits waiting...

... waiting behind the largest, most varied, and most insidious hoard of subtle and dangerous traps in the world.

[Alent]

I'll go off beat with a suggestion for how he might be wealthy beyond anyone's imagination but not actually have a hoard:

The dragon is a Financial Guru and believes that idle money is a sin.

When inquired about his wealth, he can explain all the ways that his money is invested across multiple planes of existence in stock markets, angel funds, retirement investment funds in different countries with favorable tax codes, how he used that last emergency fund to start a trust fund then hire a cleric to go resurrect that distant cousin's grandchild after adventurers slew her for her hoard, that one time he donated the funds to build a new dorm at the bardic college in exchange for them accepting the black sheep of the family's half-dragon child as a student without asking any questions, etc.

He just can't lay his hands on any of it at the moment because of regulations, tax codes, minimum 30 year investment agreements, and so on. Not that that matters to him, he'd just reinvest it if he had it, what good is idle money, after all?

[daremetoidareyo]

I'll go off beat with a suggestion for how he might be wealthy beyond anyone's imagination but not actually have a hoard:

The dragon is a Financial Guru and believes that idle money is a sin.

When inquired about his wealth, he can explain all the ways that his money is invested across multiple planes of existence in stock markets, angel funds, retirement investment funds in different countries with favorable tax codes, how he used that last emergency fund to start a trust fund then hire a cleric to go resurrect that distant cousin's grandchild after adventurers slew her for her hoard, that one time he donated the funds to build a new dorm at the bardic college in exchange for them accepting the black sheep of the family's half-dragon child as a student without asking any questions, etc.

He just can't lay his hands on any of it at the moment because of regulations, tax codes, minimum 30 year investment agreements, and so on. Not that that matters to him, he'd just reinvest it if he had it, what good is idle money, after all?

"Damn red dragons are using their hoards as banks! And they're destroying the ancient artifact of Glass-Steigal!!! Call the carrier pigeons, we need some adventurers to knock some sense into them"

[Mastikator]

Is it also on a diet where it doesn't get to eat virgins anymore?

[Regitnui]

Is it also on a diet where it doesn't get to eat virgins anymore?

In my experience, adult virgins really don't taste all that different from promiscuous or married adults. It's the hormones, you see. When they ask for 'virgins', they really want someone large enough to be filling but young enough to not have gone all the way through puberty yet.

Not that I'd have any idea of the succulent taste of human flesh, or anything... *starts whistling*

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Maybe it's looking for enlightenment. If I think "vow of poverty" the first thing that comes to mind is a monk, any type of monk. Work hard, pray hard, you know the type. Some dragon monks might even make vows not to use breath weapons or fly because it doesn't fit their sober lifestyle. Although at that point why would you still be playing a dragon?

[Jay R]

In my experience, adult virgins really don't taste all that different from promiscuous or married adults.

In some D&D games I've seen, this would be a purely theoretical speculation, incapable of being tested.

[Aldrakan]

Another thing might be martial skill: A dragon doesn't need much by way of gear...so they could be out to prove the well-known superiority of dragons in a slightly different field.

Yeah my immediate thought was Dragon Monk. They get a huge strength bonus, natural armor, a decent ranged attack, flight etc. Also they'd gain evasion, and a dragon doing a backflip to dodge a fireball then using the Feral Combat Training feat (PF) to make 5 bite attacks in one round is a fun mental image.

[Rubik]

There's a dragon archetype (PrC? I don't remember) that consumes its hoard to ascend to divinity. IIRC, they usually don't hoard wealth afterwards, so why not take VoP?

[Tvtyrant]

It is a thrallherd munchkin and named its followers "charity" so it can give them its wealth while getting the bonuses to AV and stats.

[Draconium]

There's a dragon archetype (PrC? I don't remember) that consumes its hoard to ascend to divinity. IIRC, they usually don't hoard wealth afterwards, so why not take VoP?

That would be the Dragon Ascendant, IIRC. It's a PRC from the Draconomicon. Only a True Dragon can take it, and it turns them into, as it says, a "quasi-deity" for it's capstone.

[Jay R]

He's not really a dragon.

A hermit illusionist wants to be left alone, and so has tried to convince the surrounding countryside that he is a dragon without a hoard.

He figures that nobody will try to face a dragon with no potential reward.

[Melcar]

I think this would be very interesting to roleplay. Why would a dragon forsake all wealth? How would it act because of this?



Clarification: I don't mean the feat Vow of Poverty, just a dragon that has taken a vow to refuse all wealth.

Well the King of Justice sprang to mind. I know that canon he has a huge hoard, but I could se it work. Also the feat. I believe the king of justice has 20 levels of paladin, so...

[Lvl 2 Expert]

In some D&D games I've seen, this would be a purely theoretical speculation, incapable of being tested.

Regitnui's DM allows "chaotic neutral" characters, with basements and twenty years to waste.

[Saintheart]

It could be a dragon that has a very big library as its lair - from memory Candlekeep in Faerun was defended by a good lich dragon for this purpose. It doesn't go looking for gold because it's too busy reading. To quote a certain Indiana Jones film, "Knowledge is his treasure ... and his treasure is knowledge."

[hamishspence]

As a Mercedes Lackey character put it in the Tales from the Five Hundred Kingdoms series "You are Bookwyrms, aren't you?"

[ben-zayb]

The dragon worships a god of death (bonus points if he is a Dispassionate Watcher of Chronepsis), and makes it a point to forsake material things since it barely amounts to anything in death; maybe he believes that non-material tokens such as souls and favors are the most prized currency in the lower planes.

[Melcar]

It could be a dragon that has a very big library as its lair - from memory Candlekeep in Faerun was defended by a good lich dragon for this purpose. It doesn't go looking for gold because it's too busy reading. To quote a certain Indiana Jones film, "Knowledge is his treasure ... and his treasure is knowledge."

I believe this is the one (http://www.realmshelps.net/npc/wyrms/miirym.shtml) I believe the "ghost dragon template" would fit...

[Templarkommando]

Maybe it's a medical reason. Dragons frequently sleep on their hoards, and depending on the lore you're taking from, sometimes they have to sleep on precious metals. Maybe he's a chronic insomniac which in Dragon terms translates to staying awake for years at a time.

Some people have metal allergies. I knew a guy that couldn't wear a ring with nickel in it because he had bad skin reactions. Maybe our dragon has bad reactions to gold and silver.

Maybe it's based on a psychological trauma in childhood. Adventurers killed it's parents/friend/whatever and it became apparent that the reason for the death had to do with copious amounts of wealth. Or maybe it's a trauma that involves another monster made of gold or silver such as an elemental, golem or a metallic dragon. Depending on the severity of the trauma, even mentioning gold or silver causes psychotic episodes.

Maybe the dragon is lying. There actually is a hoard, but it's very well hidden.

Or.... the dragon actually had its hoard stolen, but it's too embarrassing to talk about. There could even be a plot related to tricking players into recovering its gold.

The hoard is in the form of mostly solid assets rather than fluid assets. The dragon is basically Mr. Potter from It's a Wonderful Life. He owns everything and nearly everyone in town or in the country. Maybe he's the head of multiple corporations, and only pays himself 1 gold piece a year for tax reasons. Every hundred years or so, he uses the accumulated gold pieces to buy a herd of sheep and has a nice quick meal before going back to work.

There's an elaborate story involving a deal with devils or a wizard in order to become a dragon - maybe to exact revenge or a dozen other reasons. Part of the deal involves all wealth the dragon accumulates has to go to a particular cause.

Then there's the obvious religious reasons. Maybe not good for an evil dragon, but that's not all the dragons that there are.