character creation: starting age

[The Shadowdove]

Hey forum lurkers,

Heres something I forgot about. In previous editions there were age impacts. Perhaps optional, perhaps houserules. I dont recall.
I remember seeing someone start as a late in life ex adventurer and have stat changes once.
In another game, our 50 year old human cleric started at level 2.


Are there any 5e rules regarding starting as someone who is past their prime racially/physically?

if not, how would you rule it?

Thank you in advance. Your creativity always impresses.

-Dove

[Slipperychicken]

No explicit rules. There used to be rules in 3.x, and pretty much nobody used them except munchkins trying to get a "free" +3 to mental stats. And pretty much no campaigns lasted long enough for PCs to change age categories.


In 5th edition, if your PC's physically long past his prime, then you allocate his ability scores appropriately. Maybe he might not have 18 in strength. But it depends really. In a fantasy universe where a divinely empowered 20-something is running around decapitating dragons and punching out demons, it's a little easier to believe that an older person could have somehow retained much of his physical power.

[Malifice]

Hand wave it generally. Or just dock Str and Con the older you get. Dont bump Int and Wis. You get more experienced as you get older, you dont get any smarter.

Also: Check ghosts in the MM.

[rollingForInit]

if not, how would you rule it?

-Dove

I wouldn't change anything. If an 60-year-old starts adventuring as a fighter, and you cannot reconcile with him being as good a fighter as a 20-year-old, find a somewhat supernatural explanation. Perhpas the person was invigorated by a deity. Perhaps the person had a magical potential that restored some of his vitality. Perhaps they've lived near a magical shrine that kept him from suffering from the ailments of old age.


Hand wave it generally. Or just dock Str and Con the older you get. Dont bump Int and Wis. You get more experienced as you get older, you dont get any smarter.

Actually, Intelligence is explicitly mentioned in the PHB as representing formal education, memory and deductive skills. All of which are highly trainable. And wisdom can definitely be attributed to experience. So I think that, if you were to penalise Str, Con and Dex, bumping Wis, Int and Cha would be a fair trade. Especially for a martial character.

[Anonymouswizard]

In my view any 'adjustments' would only apply when you transition in play. If this means your 78 year old human fighter begins with 18 Strength, that's your problem.

[Tanarii]

Simulating rules for a human:
The ability to have significant Str generally doesn't decrease until very late age. If you think otherwise, you've clearly never seen the 75 yo men killing it at the gym. It's absurdly common for post-retirement men to hit the gym and get in the best shape of their lives. That not to say they're *as* big. So a 75 yo fighter probably tops out at 18 Str instead of 20. But that typically stops being possible at some point, and muscles break down pretty quick. So dropping the cap by one per year past 75 down to Str 8 at 85 might be decent representation.

Dex & Con on the other hand decrease starting as early as forties. Flexibility and recovery time degrade after that point. I'd cap them at 18 at age forty, with the cap decreasing by 2 every decade. So down to 10 max at age eighty, and 8 at age one hundred.

I'm talking a cap here for guidlines for creating & advancing a new old-age character, not adjusting ability scores. So allocate scores & ASIs appropriately. I don't think adjusting scores is a good idea unless you're trying to bring a well established character from a previous campaign back for a new campaign. Even then I'd say that character should be an NPC if he's very old ... play his kid or apprentice or something. ;)

[The Shadowdove]

thanks for all of the feedback so far everyone. I find it all very useful, and refreshingly positive! (a lot of threads turn into flame-offs due to differing opinions)
keep it coming.

While you're at it, google "Buff old man". the last post inspired me to do so.

I imagine those wouldnt be uncommon in such a fantasy / survival setting.

[Vogonjeltz]

Hey forum lurkers,

Heres something I forgot about. In previous editions there were age impacts. Perhaps optional, perhaps houserules. I dont recall.
I remember seeing someone start as a late in life ex adventurer and have stat changes once.
In another game, our 50 year old human cleric started at level 2.


Are there any 5e rules regarding starting as someone who is past their prime racially/physically?

if not, how would you rule it?

Thank you in advance. Your creativity always impresses.

-Dove

No, there aren't. I wouldn't want to discourage players from being creative in their roleplaying, so I wouldn't artificially create penalties or bonuses.

[Malifice]

Actually, Intelligence is explicitly mentioned in the PHB as representing formal education, memory and deductive skills. All of which are highly trainable.

Yeah, but you're older, not better trained.

You could have been sitting on the couch eating cheeso-s and watching Firefly for the past 50 years.

Alternatively you cuold have been out exploring the world, adventuring and gaining experience.

Age does not = experience+training. Age is just the time allotted to gain it.


And wisdom can definitely be attributed to experience.

Youre confusing getting old (age) with experience (xp). The two are not one and the same.

[The Shadowdove]

out of curiosity. let me put an example on the table.

Say a player wants to be a War veteran.

A post traumatic stress riddled, gruff old war dog who suddenly has reason to don his armor for the benefit of his (family, city, country, king, etc.).

hes spent the last 30 years of his life boar hunting, trapping, raising sons daughters grandchildren, building homes, and suddenly this is all threatened by a returning foe.

A foe he thought his generation had dealt with so that his childrens children could live without fear.

In secrecy his few remaining comrades had established an order to protect the oaths theyd made in their youth. Now, they're rallying to protect whats theirs before others can die for their failure. To go on the last mission of their lives, telling only their proud old king so that he can make preparations should they fail.

Along the way they pick up some hardy adventurers who've somehow been drawn to the task as well.

say, in an ambush the elders are slain while valiantly covering the retreat of this one man and the younger adventurers. Leaving only them to complete the task.

how might this old man differ from the adventurers?

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I think age is a lot like sex. There is no need for a rule that gives men a bonus on strength and women one in dexterity/wisdom/charisma/comeliness/profession (cook)/whatever I can use as the most insulting example or anything like that. When people think up a character concept that relies mostly on brute strength most of the time they're going to end up making it a guy. In a D&D world, most of the broad chested rampaging barbarians who drink too much, get in too many bar fights and work out just to brag about how strong they are are male, just like in the real world. Expectations enforce realism. Age works the same way. If someone is playing an old monk they will probably go for a wise and dexterous (after a lifetime of training) character, someone who may have lost some of their physical strength, but gained insight and skill in return.

And yes, there are going to be those campaigns where an old knight is back flipping over his horse with an anvil on his back. And that is fine with me for two reasons: they are a minority, there are more young folks doing that, as is realistic. And we're telling a story, even if realism was getting into the way I'd still want people to go for the cool option.

And if your campaign lasts long enough for this to become an issue, you can always give people the option to relocate base ability scores to something more befitting an old person.

[Bubzors]

out of curiosity. let me put an example on the table.

Say a player wants to be a War veteran.

A post traumatic stress riddled, gruff old war dog who suddenly has reason to don his armor for the benefit of his (family, city, country, king, etc.).

hes spent the last 30 years of his life boar hunting, trapping, raising sons daughters grandchildren, building homes, and suddenly this is all threatened by a returning foe.

A foe he thought his generation had dealt with so that his childrens children could live without fear.

In secrecy his few remaining comrades had established an order to protect the oaths theyd made in their youth. Now, they're rallying to protect whats theirs before others can die for their failure. To go on the last mission of their lives, telling only their proud old king so that he can make preparations should they fail.

Along the way they pick up some hardy adventurers who've somehow been drawn to the task as well.

say, in an ambush the elders are slain while valiantly covering the retreat of this one man and the younger adventurers. Leaving only them to complete the task.

how might this old man differ from the adventurers?

Short answer, mechanically not at all. It's a great and interesting back story and will probably make for good play. But I wouldn't penalize the player for wanting to play this guy.

If I was playing it, the old age would come into the RP side. Grumbling after battles about creaky bones or old injuries. Having foreknowledge and wisdom of creatures you fight. Shaking your head at the actions of your young whipper snapper allies. Etc.

I don't believe in gimping a character due to old age just for the sake of realism. In a realm of dragons, wizards and demons, the idea of an older man being in shape really doesn't break my immersion

[jkat718]

out of curiosity. let me put an example on the table.

*EXAMPLE SNIPPED*

The only thing I would consider is that, if he has had combat experience (especially through adventuring), he might have a few PC class levels, possibly in Fighter or Paladin. You can use some of the DMG's rules for NPC creation (found on pages 89-94) for help with that.

[Anonymouswizard]

out of curiosity. let me put an example on the table.

Say a player wants to be a War veteran.

A post traumatic stress riddled, gruff old war dog who suddenly has reason to don his armor for the benefit of his (family, city, country, king, etc.).

hes spent the last 30 years of his life boar hunting, trapping, raising sons daughters grandchildren, building homes, and suddenly this is all threatened by a returning foe.

A foe he thought his generation had dealt with so that his childrens children could live without fear.

In secrecy his few remaining comrades had established an order to protect the oaths theyd made in their youth. Now, they're rallying to protect whats theirs before others can die for their failure. To go on the last mission of their lives, telling only their proud old king so that he can make preparations should they fail.

Along the way they pick up some hardy adventurers who've somehow been drawn to the task as well.

say, in an ambush the elders are slain while valiantly covering the retreat of this one man and the younger adventurers. Leaving only them to complete the task.

how might this old man differ from the adventurers?

Using point buy, he would likely not bump his main stat up to 15 and put a couple more points into mental stats. He could have the soldier background, and either the fighter or ranger classes based on what the player wants. Maybe he swaps some skills from his class or background to ones more suited to his backstory.

And that's basically it. Although he might have experience fighting he likely wouldn't have had more than a few levels, and because skills degrade without use you can justify him being whatever level the campaign needs (if he needs to be 12th level then he was part of an elite unit and saw a lot of action, and the boar hunting and the like was a hobby to his job as a town guard, if he's 2nd level then he didn't see much combat and/or hasn't picked up his spear in a long time).


I think age is a lot like sex. There is no need for a rule that gives men a bonus on strength and women one in dexterity/wisdom/charisma/comeliness/profession (cook)/whatever I can use as the most insulting example or anything like that.

While at first such rules might seem unfair, upon closer inspection you will discover that this is because the writer is a sexist person and the rules are actually unfair, rather than whatever justification they have pulled out of their ancient Greek texts.

[EggKookoo]

My feeling is that an older adventurer, if remaining active, will bolster any physical slowdown with greater experience. Much the way many an older driver will know he or she doesn't quite have the reaction time as before but will drive a little more tactically to compensate. So I wouldn't dock the older character in any physical attributes. However, it might be interesting to demonstrate some slowdown by giving the character a penalty to initiative (perhaps disadvantage?) after age 55 or so. And perhaps one of the following: a penalty on the number of hit dice used for healing after a short rest or a penalty on the number of hit dice recovered after a long rest.

For compensation of old age, I'd consider giving the older character a bonus (advantage?) on WIS saving throws and either INT checks or CHA checks. I'm less concerned about the strict realism of such things and more about how these things feel.

Another fun thing might be to alleviate the initiative penalty for X rounds after the older character has received any magical healing. "Why I feel like I'm 90 again!"

[Dimolyth]

While at first such rules might seem unfair, upon closer inspection you will discover that this is because the writer is a sexist person and the rules are actually unfair, rather than whatever justification they have pulled out of their ancient Greek texts.

Not at all - ancient Greek texts were made by the sexiest sexistes ever - ancient greeks))))

Back to the topic - that is a player, who rolls/pointbuys attributes. Due to his character concept. You need nothing to represent a wise barbarian - you just augement his Wisdom attribute. You need nothing to represent muscled sorcerer - you just augement his Strengh. That`s all.

If you wan something special - 5e has a flavor tool built in character - background. Be sure taking something like Insight (for those who lived longtime among others) or History (that 500 years old elf actually remember those events of the past). Make apropriate feature, flaw, ideas.
But the best piece of advice - actually just roleplay it. Even if you rolled great initiative - delay it, to wait a moment for action. Even if you rolled natural 20 on Con save - roleplay a weakness of health without any mechanic issue (being tired is most common here). And when you roll natural "1" on Int check, don`t be afraid to propose a really made decision, and argue it as if it is great and you`ve been doing that way your whole life.