Tips wanted for gish cleric/prestige paladin

[Glimworm]

Hello all,

I've tried to make a heavily optimized character for the first time and would love to have some critiques, feedback or tips on the build.
Mostly because the campaign is really tough (we have a player death nearly every session) and I'd like to bring the best I can, secondly because one of those deaths was me and I'm wondering what I'm to do with this character. Originally It was envisioned as some sort of melee battle cleric but I'd like to offer more support (buff/debuff) for the rest of the party while still remaining viable in melee.

Party role is buffer/debuffer, secondary (now primary) melee , secondary tank.


- halfling VoP ninja/monk
- shifter druid/barbarian
- gnome paladin/aglarondan griffonrider
- Dwarf scout/ranger
- Human sorcerer





Campaign rules : Ravenloft setting, 3.5, Good character, human, 28 point buy, no 3rd-party material, no Divine metamagic.

Human cleric3 / church inquisitor 1 / ordained champion 2 / prestige paladin 3
God : Heironeous
Flaws : Vulnerable (-1 AC), shaky (-2 ranged attack)



Ability
Score


STR
14


DEX
8


CON
12


INT
10


WIS
16


CHA
16





Lvl
Class
Feat
Special
Remarks


1
Cleric
Mounted combat, (domain) weapon focus(longsword), (human) Law devotion, (flaw) Sacred vitality, (flaw) practiced spellcaster
Turn undead, war domain, good domain
Practiced spellcaster feels a bit out of place here. It could be removed, eliminating a flaw


2
Cleric





3
Cleric
Divine defiance




4
Church inquisitor
inquisition domain,detect evil




5
Ordained champion
(Ord. champion) Power attack, (Ord. champion) ride-by-attack
law domain, combat feats, continued advancement, modified spontaneous casting



6
Prestige paladin
Battle blessing
detect evil, smite evil, turn undead



7
Ordained champion
diehard
dieharf feat, smite



8
Prestige paladin

divine grace, lay on hands, special mount



9
Prestige paladin
Holy warrior
divine health, aura of courage




Worldly posessions:
- 1 barded mount with saddle
- a longsword
- a large metal shield
- a breastplate

Assets
- Medium-to-good BAB.
- Good fortitude and will saves, bad reflex save
- Cleric spellcasting : character level - 2, CL equal to character level
- Access to cleric and paladin spell lists in cleric spell slots.
- Access to 4 domains for spells (War, law, good, inquisition)
- Immediate/Swift actions (casting most paladin spells, smiting, counterspelling, law devotion)
- Situational defenses (Law devotion, sacred vitality)
- Good dispel check (1d20 + 13 @ lvl 9)

Weaknesses
- Bad reflex save
- So many spells, so few slots
- MAD
- Few skill points
- Low HP
- Gear-dependent : low AC without gear.

Tactics
- Casting immediate dispel magic on enemy casters
- Buffing the party by means of bless, prayer and divine protection as paladin (swift) spells.
- Charging enemies with lance & ride-by-attack in combination with smites and power attack
- frontline sword & board fighter/tank


Problems
- The character has some serious MAD as a gish, moreso with charisma-based (smite, saves) abilities.
- I seem to want to cover too many bases. I love being versatile but it comes with a cost towards effectiveness
- Having (almost) no gear negatively impacts combat effectiveness. Are there ways to circumvent this?
- Many of the features of the character require turn attempts. Those are starting to become a limiting factor.
- No ranged capability, though I hope cleric spellcasting can offset that.
- Not enough hp/AC for tanking / frontline melee.



Are there any glaring mistakes in this build? Missing feats, suboptimal choices and such?
The current spell selection might also be lacking. Any suggestions for really nice spells?


(Pal) denotes spells cast as paladin spells, mostly swift.

Detect magic
light (2x)
Read magic
Summon holy symbol (2x)


Bless Weapon (Pal)
Rhino’s rush (Pal)
Divine favor (pal)
Bless (2x) (Pal)
Domain: Protection from evil (Pal)


Resist energy (Pal)
Bull’s strength (Pal)
Clarity of mind (Pal)
Divine Protection (Pal)
Domain: Zone of truth (Pal)


Dispel magic (2x)(pal)
Prayer (pal)
Domain: Magic circle against evil (Pal)


Revenance (Pal) (Used for Greater Luminous armor, as per BoED rules)
Domain: Holy smite

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'd suggest taking the 3rd level of Ordained Champion instead of Prestige Paladin 3. Channel Spell beats Aura of Courage and Divine Health hands down, and Divine Bulwark can save your life.
Also i'd switch the 16 in Cha to Con and take Serenity (DComp) at level 9 instead of Holy Warrior. PA and buffs should suffice for damage, so getting the rest of your build up to scratch should take priority.

Trade out the Law domain for Law Devotion instead of spending a feat on it. Take Cloistered Cleric to get an additional domain to trade away for Ride-by-attack if you really want it (though i'd suggest something else since you can get it from an item) - the BAB loss is negligible with so few cleric levels. The class order changes, but that doesn't matter much if you start at 9.

Instead of taking more levels of Prestige Paladin after getting Divine Grace i suggest going into Knight of the Raven instead. It really doesn't add much after that.

To deal with your relative squishyness i suggest getting temporary HP - as many as possible since temp HP from different sources stack unless stated otherwise. I even have a list, pick what applies to you.
Spells:

Aid (Cl2, Lck2) 1d8+CL (max 10), touch, 1 min/level
Aid, Mass (Cl3) 1d8+CL (max 15), AoE 1 min/level
Aid, Legions (Cl4) 1d8 +Cl (max 20), AoE 1 min/level
Bears's Heart (Dr4, Cl5) +1d4/Cl, AoE, 1 round/level
Chaav's Laugh (Cl5) 1d8 +CL (max 20), good only, AoE 1/min level
Divine Power (Cl4) 1/CL, personal, 1 round/level
False Life (Wiz2) 1d10 +CL (max 10), personal, 1 hour/level
Feast of Champions (CL9) 1d8 +1/2CL (max 10), AoE, 12 hours
Heart of Earth (Dr4, Wiz4, WJ4) 2xCL (max 30), personal, 1 hour/level
Heat Drain (Cl8) 2/target, AoE attack, 20ft burst, 1 min/level
Heroes' Feast (Brd6, Cl6) 1d8 +1/2CL (max 10), AoE, 12 hours
Heroism, Greater (Brd5, Wiz6) +1/CL (max 20), touch, 1 min/level
Leech Undeath (Cl7, Wiz8) 5/CL, single attack, close, 1 hour
Lion's Roar (CL8) 1d8 +CL (max 20), AoE, 1 min/level
Righteous Fury (Pa3) 5/CL (max 50), personal, 1 hour
Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (Cl7) 1d8 or 2d8, AoE, 1 round/level
Ruin Delver's Fortune (Ba4, Wiz4) 4d8 + Cha, personal, 1 round/level
Sta[wart Pact (Cl5) 5 x 1/2CL (max 35), touch, permanent until triggered at half health, then 1 round/level
Unicorn Blood (Dr5, Wiz5) 1 x CL (max 15) or 2 x CL (max 30), touch, non-self, 10 min/level
Vampiric Touch (Wiz 3) 1d6 x 1/2 CL (max 10d6), touch attack, 1 hour


Feats:
Aberrant Dragonmark Vigor: 1/level, uses dragonmark SLA as fuel, 1 hour
Azure Toughness: 3/essentia, 1/day, 24 hours
Divine Vigor: 2/level, uses Turn Undead, 1 min/cha-mod
Initiate of Illmater: 3xHD max, uses normal cure spells, 1 hour
Minor Shapeshift: HD max, swift action reserve feat, 1 round/level of polymorph spell prepared

For more turn attempts get a Nightstick - or several if your DM allows it. If you trade out cleric turning for Rebuke Dragons ACF you can get a seperate turning pool from Prestige Paladin for two pools. That should help. Trade that in for the Lightbringer ACF (ECR) if you later go into Knight of the Raven for 3 turning pools.

[Glimworm]

Thanks for the suggestions!

The awesome

- The separate turning pools is pure gold, that could get a lot of extra turn attempts. I'll have to figure out how the turning advances though, I'm afraid that my effective turning level might be impacted, with ordained champion smite becoming less effective. Is this true?

- I had not considered temporary HP. That's a good route to go. I'll start planning for it :)

Prestige paladin 3 VS Ordained champion 3
The reason I took prestige paladin 3 was:
- Better HD (but just 1 HP, so meh)
- increased lay on hands (+ Cha)
- Better mount (But I'll never dip beyond lvl 3, so the mount will not increase anymore)
- Better damage on paladin smite (But I'm not sure yet if I can somehow stack these with ordained champion smites)

So I'll trade the pal3 for ordained champion 3. Thanks :)


The bad
- I considered nightsticks but the DM will not allow them
- Serenity has been proposed but is from dragon, which is banned in this campaign. I will request it though, see if the DM can be persuaded. Alternatively I might be able to use the dynamic priest feat from dragonlance to shift spellcasting to cha and decrease reliance on wis.
- I've been brewing on a cloistered cleric build. However, I can't get both the battle blessing feat and the holy warrior feat in the same in that chassis, since holy warrior requires 4th lvl caster (9th level feat slot) and battle blessing requires paladin class features that won't be available at lvl 6. This hurts the melee side a bit. But I can always put holy warrior in the 12th level feat slot.


And the questionable
Knight of the raven was on my list of future prestige classes. Originally I had planned for bone knight, but the whole necromancy thing doesn't really work well in Ravenloft. It does, however, mean another hit to spellcasting, which is starting to hurt me spell slot-wise. Originally I had planned to dip prestige paladin 3 and ordained champion 3.

I'm somewhat torn here, as I could try to go for ordained champion 5, which would mean another delay in spellcasting advancement (through practiced spellcaster means the caster level will increase normally). But then again, this is a build to be played at lvl 9-12 (probably), not a build that is meant to peak @ lvl 20.

And our DM is sort of a stickler for roleplay-based rules. I'll still have to spend the vigil in the chapel to get into the knight of the raven class. Working towards that point.

Lastly, gear-wise my character is outfitted rather..sparsely. I was considering tacking on the ancestral relic feat somewhere, as I suspect that finding/buying magic items that fit the character will be problematic. Are there other solutions for this problem?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Serenity is also in the Dragon Compendium, if that helps sway your DM any.

If you aren't too worried about losing three more caster levels (yeah...), you can do great work by adding crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 7. Keep in mind that requires you to refluff the RKV from Wee Jas to Heironous, but the fluff of the RKV (stealthy holy knight) fits with the Inquisitor (roots out hidden evil) and Ordained Champion/Paladin (holy knight), and there are no mechanical changes involved.

Crusader 1/Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 1/Ordained Champion 3/prestige paladin 2/Ruby Knight Vindicator 7 - You lose a whopping 5 caster levels - Practiced Spellcaster covers the CL, but you're still two to three full spell levels behind a pure cleric. To compensate, you do get a whole bunch of great class features - Divine Grace, Divine Impetus, Channel Spell, Smite (works with maneuvers and channel!), and you're only one point of base attack behind a full paladin/crusader/whatever, if you are using fractional base attack bonus (if not, you're another one lower).


Edit: VoP is a stop-gap solution for a relative lack of magic items. If you go VoP, it becomes more important to not lose any spellcasting, because you're going to have to provide all the usual magic item benefits through spells. It's not perfect, but you do have the spells to pull it off.

Ancestral Relic will work as well, but it's only one item, and that means you won't have the other items you might need.

[RoyVG]

Fist of Raziel is a nice PrC in Book of Exalted Deeds. It give you more Smite attempts and upgrades them pretty nicely, D10 hit die, 1/1 BAB, a Permanent Magic Circle against Evil around you, progresses your Cleric casting 9/10 levels. The main problems is you need a feat that is not that good (Servant of the Heavens)

[sleepyphoenixx]

Yes, the damage of your smites will suffer. You have PA though and the attack bonus is unaffected, so it really doesn't matter much.

There isn't actually a difference between the special mount of a PrPa 2 and a PrPa 3. You'd need 8 effective paladin levels to get to the next bonus bracket, which isn't happening in your planned build in either case.
Lay on Hands isn't really that strong a feature, and the difference is minimal. Not really a consideration imo.

As i said before, damage shouldn't be a problem with PA, so Holy Warrior can wait. It's more of a filler after you have the essentials. Serenity would be perfect for that feat slot, so try to convince your DM. It may help that it's in Dragon Compendium, which many DMs allow even if they otherwise ban Dragon Magazine content.

You'll have to decide where your priority is regarding spellcasting vs martial power. If you want to keep the full casting progression you'll have to take a non-combat PrC, which could a bit of a hassle since you can't persist Divine Power. So you're more of a paladin than a cleric. You already have better spellcasting than a paladin your level would have, and your combat abilities are at least on par if not better.
There also aren't really any other PrCs that fit your build flavorwise, and getting more levels of cleric is just a waste since it doesn't really add anything.

Consider this: With Cleric 3/ChIn 1/OrCh 3/PrPa 2 you currently cast as a level 7 cleric, meaning 4th level spells. If your campaign is likely to end at 12 that means for a big chunk of it you won't get another spell level anyway, where each level of a combat-focused PrC will give you an immediate benefit. The Rapid Spontanous Casting of OrCh 4 is especially juicy, and the +2 to CL at level 5 don't hurt either.

KotR is more of a flavor choice, since it's unlikely to really add anything in the time you have left either. It will at least increase your BAB and saves though and it doesn't really cost you anything in prerequisites, and the raven is a nice bit of flavor even if it doesn't add much benefit mechanically. It's at least a good scout though.

For items first talk to your DM, then to your party. If it turns out you won't be able to buy much find out if you're going to have a bit of free time or if you'll be under constant time pressure. If you have time try to get every spellcaster in your group to take a different item creation feat.

Or just get an Artificer cohort, but that's unlikely to be allowed.

[Warrnan]

Grab the spell delay death as soon as possible. This is an immediate action 4th level cleric spell that prevents death due to hp loss for 1 round/ level. Very useful. Then just make sure to heal up before the spell wears off using cheap CLW or lesser vigor wands. Close wounds cleric 2 is similar lower level solution. These combined with diehard will make you pretty hard to kill because you can go deeply to negative Hp while delay death is up and still fight.

Swift, spontaneous war domain spells and swift paladin spells will make you pretty strong.

For ranged attacks I'd suggest light of venya and similar spells from the Spell Compendium. You can find tons of great spells in there.

I love the feat healing touch as well. Tons of cheap healing for the cost of a feat.

Fist of Raziel is a great class even with the feat tax. I usually build this. Cleric3/ church Inquisitor1/ ordained champion5/ prestige paladin1/ fist of raziel10. You have 19 base attack and 17 caster levels a perfect base for a divine gish. Buy your own disposable horse with gold or summon something. You could still follow this build path if you want to keep Prestige paladin 3 but you'll lose 9th level spells @ 20th level.

Make the phb paladin cry LG tears as you cast gate and smite anyone like a boss.

[Glimworm]

Grab the spell delay death as soon as possible. This is an immediate action 4th level cleric spell that prevents death due to hp loss for 1 round/ level. Very useful. Then just make sure to heal up before the spell wears off using cheap CLW or lesser vigor wands. Close wounds cleric 2 is similar lower level solution. These combined with diehard will make you pretty hard to kill because you can go deeply to negative Hp while delay death is up and still fight.

Sadly, delay death is considered necromantic and subject to a powers check in Ravenloft, so that option will not be used.



Swift, spontaneous war domain spells and swift paladin spells will make you pretty strong.

Yup, and those yummy tasty paladin lvl 4 spells being cast while at character level 9 will make quite the impact.



For ranged attacks I'd suggest light of venya and similar spells from the Spell Compendium. You can find tons of great spells in there.

I love the feat healing touch as well. Tons of cheap healing for the cost of a feat.

Fist of Raziel is a great class even with the feat tax. I usually build this. Cleric3/ church Inquisitor1/ ordained champion5/ prestige paladin1/ fist of raziel10. You have 19 base attack and 17 caster levels a perfect base for a divine gish. Buy your own disposable horse with gold or summon something. You could still follow this build path if you want to keep Prestige paladin 3 but you'll lose 9th level spells @ 20th level.

Make the phb paladin cry LG tears as you cast gate and smite anyone like a boss.

I have to admit that in creepy spooky ravenloft, I'm rather fond of the extra saves and therefore the prestige paladin 2, even though it means lagging behind in casting.

[Warrnan]

Fair enough. I can totally see your reasoning.

[Glimworm]

I still agree with you though, caster level hits are generally a pain in the ass and I -wish- I could use the delay death / diehard / just wade into melee option.

[Glimworm]

I think I also see why the ordained champion 3 level is preferable over the prestige paladin 3 level:

Channel spell(SU) is an awesome feature. It enables the character to pre-cast a spell* at the cost of only a move action.

First round of combat is usually:
- Swift ability / spell
- Standard action spell
- spending a move action on something useful

Now it can become:
- Swift ability/spell
- Standard action spell
- Move action channel spell.

Am I correct in assuming that as a supernatural ability, channel spell is not subject to attacks of opportunity? And what spells are applicable / usable that might be of use? It seems that Damage over Time (DoT) effects and debuffs are the spell of choice here, with a large preference for no SR / no save spells.
So far I've come up with:
- Haboob. Debilitate and damage, no save/no SR, 1 min/lvl, 1d4 damage / 2 cl per round.
- Holy storm. 1 rnd/lvl, no save/no SR, 2d6 damage/rnd to evil creatures, 4d6 damage/rnd for evil outsiders.

Shame that silence and light spells generally have an object as target. Imagine casting these on enemy casters / light-sensitive undead.



* target is one creature or more
* Spell only applies to hit target, even if an area spell
* Any lvl spell
* up to Standard action casting time spells
* Spell is retained for 8 hours
* Spell is discharged at first hit after channeling
* Limitations may apply, not applicable in anti-magic fields, please consult your physician before using, not recommended for children up to age 7

[Glimworm]

I'd suggest taking the 3rd level of Ordained Champion instead of Prestige Paladin 3. Channel Spell beats Aura of Courage and Divine Health hands down, and Divine Bulwark can save your life.
Also i'd switch the 16 in Cha to Con and take Serenity (DComp) at level 9 instead of Holy Warrior. PA and buffs should suffice for damage, so getting the rest of your build up to scratch should take priority.
...


I've juist built a version on a base of cloistered cleric and I've noticed that only 1 feat slot (lvl 9 feat) can be used for feats that have paladin features as prerequisite.
Battle blessing requires the ability to cast paladin spells.
Serenity requires the divine grace class feature

Sadly, I fear that the only way to get both serenity ánd battle blessing would be my old build, replacing the holy warrior feat.

An option I do see is the 'Dynamic priest' feat. It would allow cleric spellcasting and bonus spells to be based off of cha. The DC's would, however, still be wisdom-based. Might be an option, as it could be taken at lvl 1. (Dynamic priest is a feat from dragonlance)

[Warrnan]

Dynamic priest seems like I would only take it if my Dm wouldn't allow serenity from dragon mag. It's similar but a tad nerfed.

A little note for holy storm, I would suggest swift casting it as an aoe instead of channeling it, once you get your paladin battle blessing feat. Typically OC channeling is used for single target nukes and debuffs. I'd recommend the SpC to find some go to spells.

[Glimworm]

Without further ado, the new build of this character (And I really felt like updating the tables, this looks prettier, no?)

The crunch:-4 hp, -1 BAB, +1 fortitude save, +1 reflex save, +24 skill points, +2 feats, +5 turn attempts




Human cloistered cleric3 / church inquisitor 1 / ordained champion 3 / prestige paladin 2
God : Heironeous
Flaws : Vulnerable (-1 AC), shaky (-2 ranged attack)



Ability
Score


STR
14


DEX
8


CON
12


INT
10


WIS
14


CHA
18





Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Cloistered clericl
+0.5
2.50
0.33
2.50
28
Mounted combat, dynamic priest, Weapon focus(longsword), Law devotion, (flaw:shaky)sacred vitality, (flaw:vulnerable)extra turning
Knowledge domain, war domain, law domain, lore, turn undead


2nd
Cloistered cleric
+1.0
3.00
0.67
3.00
7
-



3rd
Cloistered cleric
1.5
3.50
1.00
3.50
7
Divine defiance



4th
Church inquisitor
2.25
3.83
1.33
4.00
5
-
detect evil, inquisition domain


5th
Ordained champion
3.25
4.33
1.67
4.50
3
Power attack, ride-by-attack
Bonus domain(good), combat feats(good & knowledge), continued advancement, modified spontaneous casting


6th
Ordained champion
4.25
4.83
1.67
5.00
3
practiced spellcaster, diehard
Diehard feat, smite


7th
Prestige paladin
5.25
5.33
2.00
5.33
3
-
detect evil,smite evil 1/day, turn undead


8th
Prestige paladin
6.25
5.83
2.33
5.67
3
-
Lay on hands, divine grace, special mount


9th
Ordained champion
7.25
6.33
2.67
6.17
3
Battle blessing
channel spell, divine bullwark



Spells per Day


0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


6
5+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-

[ZamielVanWeber]

Talk to your DM about Battle Blessing. You cast as a cleric, not a paladin, and the majority of your spells are cleric spells. He can rule that it still affects the paladin spells added to your list or that those become cleric spells and are thus ineligible.

[Glimworm]

Talk to your DM about Battle Blessing. You cast as a cleric, not a paladin, and the majority of your spells are cleric spells. He can rule that it still affects the paladin spells added to your list or that those become cleric spells and are thus ineligible.

The DM has already approved this part of the combination. As long as I use the slots and fill them with paladin spells. this means that a spell such as Cure serious wounds (Pal4, Clr3) can be cast as a paladin spell from a 4th level (or higher) spell slot as a paladin spell and can be cast in a swift action. Casting it from the 3rd level spell slot means it is the cleric variant and therefore not eligible for swift casting.

The definition of 'paladin spell' in our campaign is "Spells from the paladin spell list".

[Warrnan]

Very solid build. 2 CL behind a standard cleric but lots of great class features and extra feats are worth it.

What are your V2 feats?

[Rebel7284]

For more turn attempts get a Nightstick - or several if your DM allows it. If you trade out cleric turning for Rebuke Dragons ACF you can get a seperate turning pool from Prestige Paladin for two pools. That should help. Trade that in for the Lightbringer ACF (ECR) if you later go into Knight of the Raven for 3 turning pools.

You can also dip Sacred Exorcist for an extra turning pool without losing any caster levels. Highly Recommended as you will go through your turning uses fairly quickly.

Something like:
Cleric3 / Church Inquisitor 1 / Ordained Champion 2 / Prestige Paladin 2/Ordained Champion +1/ .... future ... /Sacred Exorcist 1/Church Inquisitor +1/Prestige Paladin +1/

Finish with some combination of more Sacred Exorcist (3/4th BAB) or consider a contemplative dip for extra domain.

[Glimworm]

You can also dip Sacred Exorcist for an extra turning pool without losing any caster levels. Highly Recommended as you will go through your turning uses fairly quickly.

Something like:
Cleric3 / Church Inquisitor 1 / Ordained Champion 2 / Prestige Paladin 2/Ordained Champion +1/ .... future ... /Sacred Exorcist 1/Church Inquisitor +1/Prestige Paladin +1/

Finish with some combination of more Sacred Exorcist (3/4th BAB) or consider a contemplative dip for extra domain.

Oof. I had somehow completely missed the sacred exorcist as a viable option.
I'll have to somehow get some knowledge(the planes) in the build, but that's a doozy with a cloistered cleric.

The only downside is the 3/4 BAB and the lack of a good fort save. But the build isn't meant to go all the way up to 20, so not hitting that 4th iterative attack isn't that problematic, especially with divine power & Righteous might looming on the horizon.

Is the exorcism ability useful? As far as I read it, it's a class lvl + cha check VS 10+HD+cha of the posessing creature. That doesn't really give much chance of success.
And what is the DC/CL for the spell-like ability based on? It's not clear from the sacred exorcist entry.


Very solid build. 2 CL behind a standard cleric but lots of great class features and extra feats are worth it.

What are your V2 feats?

In order:
Mounted combat, Dynamic priest, Weapon focus(longsword), Law devotion, Sacred vitality, Extra turning, Divine defiance, Power attack, ride-by-attack, practiced spellcaster, diehard, battle blessing.

The reasons :
- Differentiating turning pools won't be an option. I've alleviated this with the extra turning feat and shifting towards more CHA instead of wis

- It's not possible to both have both battle blessing ánd serenity. I don't want to wait 3 levels on battle blessing. Hence the choice for dynamic priest over serenity. This negatively impacts the DC of spells, but most spells used are (group/self)-buffs and dispells. Direct damage might come into play at some point but isn't a priority for the current character.

- Due to the choice for dynamic priest, I've been able to shift some wisdom to charisma. (16/16 to 14/18 respectively). This has a few added positive effects :
- Divine grace bonus increases with +1
- Ordained champion (and paladin) smite gain an extra +1 to hit
- 1 extra turning attempt /day
- Better turning check / damage rolls. (I'm still checking if the lightbringer ACF can be used to damage undead)
Negative effects
- DC for spells still based on wis. This will impact direct-damage spells.

- The feat Sacred vitality is added to get a defense against all those nasty ability damage/drain and energy drain effects. I could also munchkin-size it to offset the penalty for casting sanctified spells from the BoED

- The mounted combat tree (Mounted combat, ride-by-attack) is there because I'm currently using the paladin mount. Since the mount will not gain more power, it should become less important over time. The ride-by-attack could be swapped for another fighter feat. I don't see any good choices, though.

- Practiced spellcaster is added to keep the same potency on spell durations/effects (buffs need to be as long and good a possible), dispel checks and defense against enemy dispels. In the original build the feat came in at lvl 1, but it feels more natural to use the freed lvl 6 feat slot.

- Extra turning is sort of shoe-horned in to alleviate the reliance on turn attempts. This one I have my greatest doubts about. It's a no-brained to help with the turn attempts, but I feel there might be a better 1st lvl feat that I could take for this build.

- Lastly, Battle blessing remains solidly in place, but now in the 9th level feat slot.

Breakfast spells
A small addendum to the character : I'll be using the following breakfast spells (duration 24 hrs or at least long enough to last a day):
- Greater Luminous armor (+8 AC, -4 penalty to be hit in melee for opponents, daylight spell effect, 24 hour duration, no armor check penalty, no weight, no max dex bonus)
- Tyche's touch (+4 sacred bonus on first save made in a day, +3 on the 2nd, +2 on the 3rd and +1 on the 4th, 24 hour duration)

This is done because the character is still decked out in crappy gear (Basically a breastplate, longsword and a large shield). To offset this more I've got the following options:
- Magic vestment on the shield (9 hr : +2 enchantment)
- Greater magic weapon on the longsword (9 hr: +2 enchantment)

Any options I'm missing?

[Rebel7284]

Battle Bridle from MIC can give you ride-by attack for a fairly cheap cost. I say save the feat. Anything from Cleave to Martial Study would be a better fighter feat.

Or how about Improved Bullrush so that you can take Shock Trooper later? With Rhino Rush in your spells known, seems like a nice long term investment.


Without granting an extra turning pool, Sacred Exorcist is certainly a lot less exciting. All it does then is gives you extra BAB over taking more cloistered cleric.

[Warrnan]

Looks good Glimworm. It should be a solid and enjoyable character. :)

[ZamielVanWeber]

Magic Vestment, Greater Luminous Armor, and Breastplate don't stack. GLA is an armor bonus, Magic Vestment increases an items armor bonus, and Breastplate grants an armor bonus.

[Glimworm]

Magic Vestment, Greater Luminous Armor, and Breastplate don't stack. GLA is an armor bonus, Magic Vestment increases an items armor bonus, and Breastplate grants an armor bonus.

I know that they don't stack. The breastplate is baseline, greater luminous armor is cast to get the 'real' AC. The magic vestment will be cast at the shield.


Looks good Glimworm. It should be a solid and enjoyable character. :)

Thanks warman! I'm looking forward to kicking ass with this build :)

[ZamielVanWeber]

I know that they don't stack. The breastplate is baseline, greater luminous armor is cast to get the 'real' AC. The magic vestment will be cast at the shield.

Fair enough. One last recommendation: at lower level Luminous Armor's cost vs bonus is more favorable than Greater Luminous Armor's. Unless you really need the extra three AC I would recommend Luminous Armor until you have at least 4 4th level spells (not including domain).