most useless race/class combo ? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

beckyangelix

2015-10-21, 08:46 AM

Yorrin

2015-10-21, 08:59 AM

I think he's looking for stuff like Tielfing Barbarian, which is the most useless combo I can think of. No synergy at all, really. Still not a useless character, but pretty close.

Here's the thing about races, though. Any race with a bonus to Dex, Wis, or Con is automatically useful to every class, since those are your defensive stats. This makes the only potentially useless races Dragonborn and Tiefling. Even then they get elemental resistances.

Goodberry

2015-10-21, 09:10 AM

Any small race Barbarian. No heavy weapons = fail.

Yorrin

2015-10-21, 09:23 AM

Any small race Barbarian. No heavy weapons = fail.

Not quite. You can still make a Shield + Staff build with Polearm Master, for a tanky build with some solid damage output.

Naanomi

2015-10-21, 09:37 AM

Conventional wisdom is Beastmaster ranger is the worst class... What makes the worst Beastmaster? Tiefling?

KorvinStarmast

2015-10-21, 09:40 AM

For my money, the Tieflings need to all go back to Sigil and have tea with the Lady ...

Falcon X

2015-10-21, 09:44 AM

Drow/Deep Gnome Light Domain Cleric - "I cast Daylight.... and burn my own eyes out..."

N810

2015-10-21, 09:46 AM

lol, nice one. :smallbiggrin:

foolinc

2015-10-21, 09:47 AM

Any small race Barbarian. No heavy weapons = fail.

My Rock Gnome Barbarian would like to have a word with you.

On a more serious note, Lucky and Gnome Cunning stop Halflings and Gnomes from having the "worst" combo with anything because they are useful for any class.

Chronos

2015-10-21, 09:52 AM

Quoth beckyangelix:

Though I've never found races and classes affected each other THAT much. I have found in past editions that races are often way more over powered than others (Aasimars were waaaaay too over-powered in 3.5). And then there are templates you will probably be able to add (half-Celestial in 3.5 was RIDICULOUS).
Aasimars were on the low end of the power scale, and half-celestial was ridiculously underpowered. You need more than what an aasimar gets to make LA worthwhile, and as much LA as a half-celestial gets is almost impossible to make worthwhile.

Flickerdart

2015-10-21, 09:56 AM

Aasimars were on the low end of the power scale, and half-celestial was ridiculously underpowered. You need more than what an aasimar gets to make LA worthwhile, and as much LA as a half-celestial gets is almost impossible to make worthwhile.
Quite. Even with LA buyoff/lesser Aasimar/Aasimar racial class, human was still miles ahead thanks to "bonus feat" being the best racial feature in the game.

Half-Celestial isn't even eligible for more than one point of LA buyoff before 20th, but at that point it becomes a pretty decent deal for martial types. Giving up 3 HD for SLAs up to 9th level is on the edge of tolerable.

NNescio

2015-10-21, 09:57 AM

Hard to say right now. Everything is very well balanced with the currently published literature. Wait a couple years until we have three PHBs and more supplementary books than you can count and soon it will become unbalanced and there will be way more options for fails of race/class combos.

Though I've never found races and classes affected each other THAT much. I have found in past editions that races are often way more over powered than others (Aasimars were waaaaay too over-powered in 3.5). And then there are templates you will probably be able to add (half-Celestial in 3.5 was RIDICULOUS).

5e is so well balanced right now that even a gnome fighter can do serious damage, and an orc wizard or bard makes just as much sense as anything else.

Just wait. *steeples fingers*

Just wait.

3.5 Aasimars don't hold a candle to humans ('though to be fair, most races in 3.5 are worse than a human, because tasty bonus feat) and burns a level on LA. +2 Wis/Cha was only useful for a Paladin, who can probably eat the LA, unlike casters. Then again the 3.5 Paladin kinda sucks and is quite MAD, so...

3.5 Half-celestial burns four levels on LA.

--

Going back to topic... 5e Warforged (from UA: Eberron) Druid, with a jerk DM who counts Composite Plating as armor and sticks to the exact wording of ""Your construction incorporates wood and metal"?

'though technically there's no penalty for wearing metal, and well, Beast Wars transformers are a cool-enough concept, so...

Theodoxus

2015-10-21, 10:01 AM

Small size can use heavy, they have disad - and reckless attack negates that, so, sure, not optimized, but doable.

This be Richard

2015-10-21, 10:14 AM

I play a half-orc wizard. It hasn't gone especially well.
Worse still because stats were rolled and mine came up pretty poor, so I couldn't even multiclass for gish purposes if I wanted to.

Hawkstar

2015-10-21, 10:31 AM

Any small race Barbarian. No heavy weapons = fail.

Battleaxe+Shield.

Inevitability

2015-10-21, 10:38 AM

3.5 Aasimars don't hold a candle to humans ('though to be fair, most races in 3.5 are worse than a human, because tasty bonus feat) and burns a level on LA. +2 Wis/Cha was only useful for a Paladin, who can probably eat the LA, unlike casters. Then again the 3.5 Paladin kinda sucks and is quite MAD, so...

I think she was referring to lesser Aasimar, a variant that changed the outsider type and all the nice stuff it gave into the humanoid type, but removed the LA.

Not surprisingly, aasimar suddenly got a lot more popular.

Yorrin

2015-10-21, 11:34 AM

I think she was referring to lesser Aasimar, a variant that changed the outsider type and all the nice stuff it gave into the humanoid type, but removed the LA.

Not surprisingly, aasimar suddenly got a lot more popular.

Dragonborn Lesser Aasimar made for some hilarious builds.

But to get back on topic 5e has done a surprisingly good job of balancing races. Except Tiefling. Seriously, why are Tieflings so bad?

Nishant

2015-10-21, 11:36 AM

Dragonborn Lesser Aasimar made for some hilarious builds.

But to get back on topic 5e has done a surprisingly good job of balancing races. Except Tiefling. Seriously, why are Tieflings so bad?

It would have been nice if they took a note from PF and did the heritage traits.

Demonic Spoon

2015-10-21, 11:50 AM

But to get back on topic 5e has done a surprisingly good job of balancing races. Except Tiefling. Seriously, why are Tieflings so bad?

Because Hellish Rebuke doesn't scale. Tiefling is actually pretty solid at low levels.

As a houserule in my own games, I added a D10 at the same level the Dragonborn breath weapon scales.

recapdrake

2015-10-21, 12:17 PM

Dragonborn Lesser Aasimar made for some hilarious builds.

But to get back on topic 5e has done a surprisingly good job of balancing races. Except Tiefling. Seriously, why are Tieflings so bad?

I think the problem can be found by looking at aasimar in the Dungeon Master's Guide. They built tiefling only wanting it to be a good warlock.

Tanarii

2015-10-21, 12:20 PM

Standard Human with Standard Array. :p

Str races with Str dump builds. Mountain Dwarf especially ... Hill Dwarf is almost always better. Dragonborn Wizards, Rogues, Archer Rangers/Fighters, ie not Cha-primary & long range attackers.

Dex races get a degree of that too, ie Elf/Halfling with a Heavy Armor wearing class. Although Stout still get a lot of mileage out of Lucky & Con bonus.

Gnome almost anything aren't optimal, although they're far from useless. Sadly. I love these guys, especially Forest Gnomes.

Yorrin

2015-10-21, 12:35 PM

I think the problem can be found by looking at aasimar in the Dungeon Master's Guide. They built tiefling only wanting it to be a good warlock.

But Tieflings aren't good Warlocks, just like Aasimar don't make good Clerics or Paladins. No build really wants two high mental stats.

Tanarii

2015-10-21, 12:57 PM

But Tieflings aren't good Warlocks, just like Aasimar don't make good Clerics or Paladins. No build really wants two high mental stats.I disagree. Warlocks make passable Sage-style characters. Pretty sure they're the only class that gets access to all five Int skills other than Bards. Edit: Obviously they aren't Int skill-monkeys or anything. But certainly an Int 14 with Sage background and all four knowledge-type skills is something that works for them. Only Druids, Bards, and Warlocks can pull that off. (And variant humans/half-elves of course.)

Yorrin

2015-10-21, 01:14 PM

I disagree. Warlocks make passable Sage-style characters. Pretty sure they're the only class that gets access to all five Int skills other than Bards. Edit: Obviously they aren't Int skill-monkeys or anything. But certainly an Int 14 with Sage background and all four knowledge-type skills is something that works for them. Only Druids, Bards, and Warlocks can pull that off. (And variant humans/half-elves of course.)

Skills are relatively easy to acquire. The only classes that need Int are Wizard and sometimes Eldritch Knights and Arcane Trickters. And realistically, most EKs and ATs don't need it either. Int is the dump stat of 5e, no getting around it.

Tanarii

2015-10-21, 01:28 PM

Skills are relatively easy to acquire.Not really. The only RAW PHB way to get the combo History/Arcana/Nature/Religion is to be a Sage Druid / Warlock, be a Bard, or be a Half-elf/Variant Human. And Int is only a dump stat if you play in games where no one ever needs to make Int-based checks. That's highly DM/Campaign dependent. Even in a hack-n-slash dungeon delve, you probably want at least one 'Sage' in the party.

Edit: I agree that it's a dump stat in terms of Int being useful to less builds overall than most other stats.

deathbymanga

2015-10-21, 01:32 PM

Conventional wisdom is Beastmaster ranger is the worst class... What makes the worst Beastmaster? Tiefling?

sorry if this was already adressed, but no, the Beast Master is not the worst class. It's actually a LOT of fun to play with. it does suffer from a major survivability issue, which can cause some problems like RPing with your Dog or something, but a simple rule of the animal companion getting Evasion, or getting your companion back after a long rest , fixes that for long-running campaigns. That, or just have a very willing DM who let's you just grab a new companion whenever.

The worst archetype I feel would have to be the Champion Fighter, but I don't think either Beastmaster or Champion could ever be called the worst "class", because their parent-class still holds up. However, the Fighter does suffer a bit from a lack of features aside from 3 attacks, meaning I'd say the Champion is the worst class in the book.

And the worst race to accompany it would be the fragile Tiefling.

Person_Man

2015-10-21, 01:47 PM

sorry if this was already adressed, but no, the Beast Master is not the worst class. It's actually a LOT of fun to play with. it does suffer from a major survivability issue, which can cause some problems like RPing with your Dog or something, but a simple rule of the animal companion getting Evasion, or getting your companion back after a long rest , fixes that for long-running campaigns.

You can replace your Companion when it dies by spending 8 hours bonding with another animal that qualifies for 8 hours. (And it's basically just DM fiat to find another Companion. It'd be nicer if it could just be magically summoned, but that doesn't fit the traditional fluff of the Ranger).

Also, the Mounted Combat Feat gives your Companion Evasion and makes it harder to target.

Separately, this thread reminds me of how much I hate racial ability scores and fiddly benefits. There shouldn't be any bad Race/Class combinations, period. It should be a roleplaying choice, with one or two big universally useful abilities.

deathbymanga

2015-10-21, 01:54 PM

You can replace your Companion when it dies by spending 8 hours bonding with another animal that qualifies for 8 hours. (And it's basically just DM fiat to find another Companion. It'd be nicer if it could just be magically summoned, but that doesn't fit the traditional fluff of the Ranger).

8hours equals a long-rest. so it fits with what I said about getting a new companion.

Also, the Mounted Combat Feat gives your Companion Evasion and makes it harder to target.

I forgot about mounted combat, but that's a very specific build, but it can work quite well. but it can only be done with Small races

Theodoxus

2015-10-21, 02:38 PM

Separately, this thread reminds me of how much I hate racial ability scores and fiddly benefits. There shouldn't be any bad Race/Class combinations, period. It should be a roleplaying choice, with one or two big universally useful abilities.

This made me laugh. I was reading the official WotC conversion guide yesterday, where it talked about races, and along the lines of "converting a race from a previous version, it shouldn't get more than a +3 bonus total to stats (and a max of +2 to any single attribute) unless it doesn't have a lot of racial benefits."

And I though... hmm. Mountain Dwarf and Half-elf don't have a lot of racial benefits? Ok, the dwarf might be a bit sparse... but the HElf? really? There's a reason it's the go to race for nearly any build. I used it for a cleric/rogue who didn't need Cha at all (boosted my 8 to a 10) because of the extra skills. The currently campaign I'm playing was all half-elves (I swapped out the cleric/rogue for a HOrc barbarian because we needed a front line meatshield.)

VHuman gets +1 to two attributes, a feat and a skill. Yawn. If there was a feat that granted: Darkvision, Immunity to Sleep, +2 Cha, +1 Skill and 2 languages, it'd be comparable. There's no class that can't benefit from a HElf in the helm.

Vogonjeltz

2015-10-21, 04:52 PM

Quite. Even with LA buyoff/lesser Aasimar/Aasimar racial class, human was still miles ahead thanks to "bonus feat" being the best racial feature in the game.

Half-Celestial isn't even eligible for more than one point of LA buyoff before 20th, but at that point it becomes a pretty decent deal for martial types. Giving up 3 HD for SLAs up to 9th level is on the edge of tolerable.

This just serves to remind me how little I miss 3.5e.

As for the OP, Nobody really gets negatives...but maybe a Mountain Dwarf Hunter who wants to focus on ranged combat. Low/No ability score synergy, Redundant armor and weapon proficiencies. That leaves them with: Slower speed, darkvision, and advantage on saving throws vs poison / resistance on poison damage.

So that's some fairly meagre benefits.

Magic Myrmidon

2015-10-21, 06:10 PM

Separately, this thread reminds me of how much I hate racial ability scores and fiddly benefits. There shouldn't be any bad Race/Class combinations, period. It should be a roleplaying choice, with one or two big universally useful abilities.

It's weird how frequently I agree with you about design ideas. :p

I'm always super irritated when I have a great idea for a character, especially one who goes against type, only to find that the idea is terrible, mechanically. In 5e, the problem is more surmountable than in previous editions, but it still totally exists.

I know a lot of people really think that race should be integral to your character, but I definitely prefer it to a roleplaying thing first, with maybe a flavorful ability or two tied to it.

Naanomi

2015-10-21, 07:03 PM

deathbymanga

2015-10-21, 08:09 PM

I like Beastmaster, I just said conventional discussion says it is the worst. Other contenders are champion fighter, thief rogue, and... What... Trickster cleric? But that is still a full caster... No class is 'bad' but if I had to point to one it would be from that list

Outside of the Champion I could definitely make an argument for all the others to be really good classes if you want

Coidzor

2015-10-21, 10:23 PM

Half Orc non-gish Wizard? Only racial feature of use is the free ability to be at 1 hp instead of being dropped once per long rest.

deathbymanga

2015-10-21, 11:09 PM

Half Orc non-gish Wizard? Only racial feature of use is the free ability to be at 1 hp instead of being dropped once per long rest.

well, yeah, any Physical race going magic is likely going to go Gish, since that's where their stats work, but at least their stats work that way

Nishant

2015-10-21, 11:12 PM

well, yeah, any Physical race going magic is likely going to go Gish, since that's where their stats work, but at least their stats work that way

but hey, you never know why those physical stats will come in handy. and CON is always good.

Logosloki

2015-10-21, 11:37 PM

Bog standard human/any class. To be fair though it is not the worst by much. This is assuming that you are working with the class rather than lolradumbing the class. Human offers almost nothing at all in comparison to other races. It isn't crippling bad but it is the worst option.

Tanarii

2015-10-22, 01:41 AM

Baseline human is worth about +4 point buy points over other races depending on what you do with them. For example you can start with 5 14s if you wanted to for some weird reason. It's also the only PHB race that can start with any three 16s. (1/2-Elf can but one must be Cha). Basically it's only "useful" for MAD characters. Or maybe someone that rolled stats and got all odd numbers.

Shojiteru

2015-10-22, 11:14 AM

I would have to say Tiefling is the worst class to pair with a melee build. It's not a bad race since Tiefling would be my top pick for Lore Bard while Dark Elf my pick for Valor and Half Elf my top pick for Bard in general. You can make any race horrible and any class horrible. Human/Varient Human/Half Elf are some top races that can't be made horrible without purpose... Put those +1's in INT and WIS while you're a Barbarian. If you don't purposely try, any race/class combo can be good. Especially if you choose to opt out on the Option Rules. No feats? Everyone gets their main stats to 20 and some dump stats up since 3-4 ASI should get 2 20's. The last 1-2? I have no dump stats anymore! With Optional Rules then sure you can get your stats maxed but you will miss out on a feat or two.

As with everything in 5e, the answer is "It's situational." In other words, there are no rules in 5e. You make the rules. Yay for the Anarchist game!

Maxilian

2015-10-22, 03:43 PM

Drow/Deep Gnome Light Domain Cleric - "I cast Daylight.... and burn my own eyes out..."

2 things

1- Daylight is not actually sun light (that's kind of fun and sad at the same time, many DMs will most likely rule it as sun light)

2- Deep Gnomes doesn't have Sunlight sensitivity like the Drow elves (Yes, Deep Gnomes are awesome)

Maxilian

2015-10-22, 03:49 PM

Half Orc non-gish Wizard? Only racial feature of use is the free ability to be at 1 hp instead of being dropped once per long rest.

Actually it could be useful if the player knows how to do it (have in mind, that this make the Wizard less vulnerable to STR checks and CON is always useful even more to a caster)

Alikat

2015-10-22, 04:22 PM

sorry if this was already adressed, but no, the Beast Master is not the worst class. It's actually a LOT of fun to play with. it does suffer from a major survivability issue, which can cause some problems like RPing with your Dog or something, but a simple rule of the animal companion getting Evasion, or getting your companion back after a long rest , fixes that for long-running campaigns. That, or just have a very willing DM who let's you just grab a new companion whenever.

The worst archetype I feel would have to be the Champion Fighter, but I don't think either Beastmaster or Champion could ever be called the worst "class", because their parent-class still holds up. However, the Fighter does suffer a bit from a lack of features aside from 3 attacks, meaning I'd say the Champion is the worst class in the book.

And the worst race to accompany it would be the fragile Tiefling.

Champion fighter is a great chasis for a tanky dual wield build, remarkable athlete acts like a mini jack of all trades, just take all mental stat skills. Two stances lets you have twf and defensive stance, then use the fighters prolific asi's to get stuff like resilience dex/wis, defensive duelist. You end up with a tanky skill monkey.

Arc-Royal

2015-10-22, 04:52 PM

I play a half-orc wizard. It hasn't gone especially well.
Worse still because stats were rolled and mine came up pretty poor, so I couldn't even multiclass for gish purposes if I wanted to.
One of my players is a half-orc sorcerer. The only reason he's been one of the better party members is because everyone else seems to have garbage luck with dice, which makes his shortcomings seem less drastic.

Kane0

2015-10-22, 04:55 PM

An aaracokra that fights in melee would be pretty bad. Monk perhaps?

Shojiteru

2015-10-22, 11:21 PM

An aaracokra that fights in melee would be pretty bad. Monk perhaps?

Aaracokra would be the one of the best Monks. Fly would make anyone way more useful. Flying barbarian, fighter, paladin... all awesome. Snipe arrows 600' in the sky (ignore wind and breathing)

Malifice

2015-10-22, 11:29 PM

I think he's looking for stuff like Tielfing Barbarian, which is the most useless combo I can think of.

Dump Cha and Int to 8 and Wis to 10. Start with a Str and Con of 15; Dex 14. Grab an Axe and some medium armor.

+4 to hit dealing 1d12+4 when raging is nothig to sneeze at.

Darkvision and fire resistance are always OK. Throwing a 3d10 fire damage in someones face when they hit you is also fun for a 1st level melee character.

At 4th when Rebuke is losing steam, grab +1 to Str and Con.

Not as good as a Half orc, Human, Half elf, Dragon born or Dwarf, but hardly useless.

Kane0

2015-10-22, 11:38 PM

Aaracokra would be the one of the best Monks. Fly would make anyone way more useful. Flying barbarian, fighter, paladin... all awesome. Snipe arrows 600' in the sky (ignore wind and breathing)

You misunderstand. I mean an Aaracokra that does not fly, as they choose to fight in melee. The race gets pretty much no benefits aside from flight so if you choose to build a character based around not flying (by staying in melee with a greatsword and heavy armor for example) you would have been better off with literally any other race. I chose monk as an example because it was the first class i thought of that pretty much requires you to be in melee, unlike other martial classes that can grab a bow and take full advantage of the flight.

So something like a Fighter (EK) Aaracokra using heavy armor and melee weapon, utility spells and cantrips only with no Int to speak of. Even then you are pretty handy to have around, since you can't exactly drop your AC to below standard levels, you still have action surge and your useful for something outside of a fight occasionally.

Oh, and make sure all your ASIs are for plain stat increases or things like entertainer.

FightStyles

2015-10-23, 07:30 AM

I'm going to be playing a Warforged Wild Sorcerer. Warforged does not help the Sorcerer, but I don't mind not optimizing for RP reasons.

Naanomi

2015-10-23, 08:13 AM

You misunderstand. I mean an Aaracokra that does not fly, as they choose to fight in melee.

...

Oh, and make sure all your ASIs are for plain stat increases or things like entertainer.
Aaracokra is Dex/wisdom; probably the best race for monk. If the challenge was 'build a bad character' we could multiclass something dumb, but only picking race and class (to me) doesn't mean we start getting to pick suboptimal tactics as well. A birdy-monk would be hit-and-run dive bomber and very effective.

JackPhoenix

2015-10-23, 08:21 AM

I'm going to be playing a Warforged Wild Sorcerer. Warforged does not help the Sorcerer, but I don't mind not optimizing for RP reasons.

I dunno, Con bonus and extra AC helps anyone, combined with immunity to diseases and no need to eat or breathe it makes up for the lack of charisma bonus

Joe the Rat

2015-10-23, 08:24 AM

I think it says something where the most useless combos start with +2 rather than +3 in their primary stat(s), so it really is mostly about feature strength and synergy.

Mountain Dwarf Monk is high on my "not great idea" list. Those racial armor and weapon proficiencies flat out don't work with your class features... unless you plan on putting your ki to work for everything but attacking. Half-Orc does better with their bonus crit die and ability to not fall down (which with max starting AC 14 will probably see use in those first few levels).

Yorrin

2015-10-23, 08:26 AM

Dump Cha and Int to 8 and Wis to 10. Start with a Str and Con of 15; Dex 14. Grab an Axe and some medium armor.

+4 to hit dealing 1d12+4 when raging is nothig to sneeze at.

Darkvision and fire resistance are always OK. Throwing a 3d10 fire damage in someones face when they hit you is also fun for a 1st level melee character.

At 4th when Rebuke is losing steam, grab +1 to Str and Con.

Not as good as a Half orc, Human, Half elf, Dragon born or Dwarf, but hardly useless.

Yeah, I didn't say the character was garbage, just that Tiefling did almost nothing for it. Fire resistance matters a lot less to a Bear totem than to anyone else (any why wouldn't you pick bear totem? I mean, wolf is good for some parties, but seriously. Bear). Darkvision is the standard these days, so I don't really count that. That leaves Hellish Rebuke, which is a great effect, but hardly one to build around.

That being said, the new SCAG variant Tieflings are suddenly looking very nice. They are definitely the race which most benefited from it, which is good since they needed it. I'm now considering Feral Winged Tielfings cannon in my homebrew setting.

Mara

2015-10-23, 11:45 AM

Standard Human with full multiclassing. 14 14 14 13 13 13 array. Start wizard, grab one level in everything, then double up on everything but Fighter, Rogue, Druid, Warlock.

Malifice

2015-10-23, 11:48 AM

Yeah, I didn't say the character was garbage, just that Tiefling did almost nothing for it. Fire resistance matters a lot less to a Bear totem than to anyone else (any why wouldn't you pick bear totem? I mean, wolf is good for some parties, but seriously. Bear). Darkvision is the standard these days, so I don't really count that. That leaves Hellish Rebuke, which is a great effect, but hardly one to build around.

That being said, the new SCAG variant Tieflings are suddenly looking very nice. They are definitely the race which most benefited from it, which is good since they needed it. I'm now considering Feral Winged Tielfings cannon in my homebrew setting.

Wolf is fantastic if you have even the one Melee character in the party. Two or more and it's almost a no-brainer.

DireSickFish

2015-10-23, 12:13 PM

Dragonborn monk is my offering to be sacrificed. A MAD class that wants Dex, Con, and Wis with stat bonuses to none of those. The resistance is going to be useful so pick acid, the most rare of the elemental damage types. Go elemental monk for the high ki point cost. You'll be rocking a 14 AC at lvl1 if you pump Dex and wis both to 15. 16 Ac at level 4 is more respectable but you're going to continually be 1 point behind on to hit and damage compared to those that get dex bonuses.

The breath weapon is shoring up a weakness that the monk doesn't have because both are good at dealing with mooks.

Flashy

2015-10-23, 06:54 PM

Half Orc non-gish Wizard? Only racial feature of use is the free ability to be at 1 hp instead of being dropped once per long rest.

I suddenly want to make a half orc evoker that leans REALLY hard on overchannel. The first couple of levels might be sort of miserable though.

Sigreid

2015-10-23, 07:08 PM

I don't think there's any such thing in this addition. No matter what your racial bonuses, you can use it to enhance a strength or remove a weakness. There's a lot of benefit to doing either.

Edit: But taking a race with Darkvision on a character that is going to take the Devil's Sight evocation can be annoying. :smallwink:

Hawkstar

2015-10-23, 07:37 PM

You misunderstand. I mean an Aaracokra that does not fly, as they choose to fight in melee. The race gets pretty much no benefits aside from flight so if you choose to build a character based around not flying (by staying in melee with a greatsword and heavy armor for example) you would have been better off with literally any other race. I chose monk as an example because it was the first class i thought of that pretty much requires you to be in melee, unlike other martial classes that can grab a bow and take full advantage of the flight.

So something like a Fighter (EK) Aaracokra using heavy armor and melee weapon, utility spells and cantrips only with no Int to speak of. Even then you are pretty handy to have around, since you can't exactly drop your AC to below standard levels, you still have action surge and your useful for something outside of a fight occasionally.

Oh, and make sure all your ASIs are for plain stat increases or things like entertainer.

Can Aaracockra fly in medium armor? If so, just don't shut down Flight, and you're still useful. They make awesome monks, especially through Open Palm knocking people around shenanigans.

Melee =/= "Not Flying". Sure, it cuts out one of flight's advantages (not being hit in melee), but it still allows you to move around a battlefield unhindered, move faster than ground-based warriors, back off if you need to (You have power over who you engage in melee)... and stops enemies from flying away to avoid getting hit in melee. An Aaracockra Greatsword-wielding (Or Sword+Board Shield master) knight can fight dragons in high-altitude battles. Might want to grab the Mobility feat, to be the ultimate melee skirmisher.

Jamesps

2015-10-23, 08:02 PM

Dragonborn Lesser Aasimar made for some hilarious builds.

But to get back on topic 5e has done a surprisingly good job of balancing races. Except Tiefling. Seriously, why are Tieflings so bad?

You play Tiefling because from time to time you just have to eat your own fireball.

Also, Darkness=Great escape mechanism.

I'd say Dragonborn are worse than Tiefling.

bid

2015-10-23, 08:07 PM

Dex14 is always useful, so is Con14. That leaves dragonborn and tiefling.

Tiefling monk, barbarian and ranger. But they have darkvision.

Dragonborn wizard and rogue, but both are SAD.

HoarsHalberd

2015-10-25, 12:54 PM

JoeJ

2015-10-25, 02:13 PM

Gnome barbarians. Low dex/con bonus. High bonus to dump stat. Removes possibility of using heavy weapons (Polearms and greataxes being out sucks.) Small races are the only ones that actively remove options and halfling (especially stout) has useful stat bonuses for a barbarian.

It doesn't remove the possibility of using heavy weapons. It just makes using them less optimal than, well, pretty much anything else (The only thing actually worse, without invoking magic, would be an improvised heavy weapon).

ShikomeKidoMi

2015-10-27, 07:18 AM

Can Aaracockra fly in medium armor? If so, just don't shut down Flight, and you're still useful. They make awesome monks, especially through Open Palm knocking people around shenanigans. Melee =/= "Not Flying". Sure, it cuts out one of flight's advantages (not being hit in melee), but it still allows you to move around a battlefield unhindered, move faster than ground-based warriors, back off if you need to (You have power over who you engage in melee)... and stops enemies from flying away to avoid getting hit in melee. An Aaracockra Greatsword-wielding (Or Sword+Board Shield master) knight can fight dragons in high-altitude battles. Might want to grab the Mobility feat, to be the ultimate melee skirmisher.

One of the most useful applications for a monk, 'move around the battlefield unhindered' lets you fly right over defensive formations to start attacking enemy ranged guys or casters in the back of the group.