My Paladin makes his own god, help me decide the domain

[deathbymanga]

So, context. I'm playing a Kuo-Toa Paladin, Kuo-Toa are notorious for making up gods and creating churches built around them. I'm having a Kuo-Toa, who actually makes his own god into a real Deity.

I'm currently playing an Oath of Ancients Paladin, using a Net and the Kuo-Toa Pincer Staff (remade in this game to be an Improvised Weapon with Reach, using the Tavern Brawler rules on Improvised Weapons). I'm planning on multiclassing into Cleric because I really don't feel like any of the later level stuff fits this particular character. But I don't know what domain to go. We already have another player going as a War Cleric, so I don't need to worry about being the main Cleric of the group

My first thought was Nature Cleric, since the Oath of Ancients is all about Preserving Life and Nature. However, I thought it might be kool to go Tempest or Trickery as well.

Statistically, my character's stats are: 16 8 14 10 14 14 Lvl 4 with the Tavern Brawler Feat.

Thematically, he's a trapper. he fights by moving to immobilise the enemy. He then makes an effort to try and convert the enemy to his religion. He's a Chaotic Good individual.

What Domain do you think would fit well? Any domain is good except War Cleric. I plan to grab 1 more level of Paladin to get the Extra Attack before I multiclass

[Gizmogidget]

Kudos to you for the great character concept. I would personally suggest that your god have two domains, Tempest and Nature because many gods already have 2 domains and it would be perfectly okay in this situation. Tempest seems thematically appropriate for the Kuo-toa and the Nature domain as you said fits in nicely with your current oath.

I really hope you enjoy playing your character, and good roleplaying!

[deathbymanga]

Kudos to you for the great character concept. I would personally suggest that your god have two domains, Tempest and Nature because many gods already have 2 domains and it would be perfectly okay in this situation. Tempest seems thematically appropriate for the Kuo-toa and the Nature domain as you said fits in nicely with your current oath.

I really hope you enjoy playing your character, and good roleplaying!

so, which of the two domains would fit well with my class? I'm looking to be a Paladin/Cleric here see, and I'd like to know which domain to make my character

[brainface]

Clearly trickery, because a chaotic good shark man leaping out of the shadows to net someone so that he can tell them the good news of this-god-he-made-up-in-his-head is the best thing? And, you know, duplicate images of said shark man also preaching the good word?

[deathbymanga]

Clearly trickery, because a chaotic good shark man leaping out of the shadows to net someone so that he can tell them the good news of this-god-he-made-up-in-his-head is the best thing? And, you know, duplicate images of said shark man also preaching the good word?

Stealth isn't really a thing for someone wearing Heavy Armor with a -1 Dex modifier.

[Sredni Vashtar]

Maybe he's just standing in the shadows, thinking that he's hidden when he's not.

[Belac93]

What stats are you using for the Kuo-toa? Just the ones from the DMG, or homebrew?
For domains, I would say tempest and either death or nature. And ancients oath.

[LnGrrrR]

Why not just make up a new domain? You could make a "water" domain, utilizing some spells and home made flavor. Steal some stuff from Nature and Tempest as mentioned before, and reskin some of the nature stuff to fit better. (Instead of Entanglement causing vines, maybe it turns the ground into muddy swamp.)

[deathbymanga]

What stats are you using for the Kuo-toa? Just the ones from the DMG, or homebrew?
For domains, I would say tempest and either death or nature. And ancients oath.
We re-skinned the Water Genasi as a Kuo-Toa


Why not just make up a new domain? You could make a "water" domain, utilizing some spells and home made flavor. Steal some stuff from Nature and Tempest as mentioned before, and reskin some of the nature stuff to fit better. (Instead of Entanglement causing vines, maybe it turns the ground into muddy swamp.)

the DM doesn't want to do anything homebrew

[deathbymanga]

And can I get any opinions at all that don't have to do with flavour? I'm more wondering about the build and what existing domains offer more interesting features for this specific build

[This be Richard]

If you're a level four paladin, you might want to invest in one more paladin level before you multiclass. That extra attack isn't something to pass up lightly.
But let's talk cleric, shall we?

I didn't see much in your post that actually describes your god. Are the details still up in the air, or is there more you haven't described for us? If the only thing defined about your god so far is that it blesses Ancients paladins, Nature and Life are the two that recommend themselves. So I'll go over those along with Tempest and Trickery.

Life seems like a decent choice to me. The heavy armor proficiency isn't going to do you any good, but you get Disciple of Life right off the bat. That, combined with your Lay on Hands, would make you a powerful healer for your team, and if your other cleric is a War cleric, that might be something your party could really benefit from. Preserve Life as a Channel Divinity option just takes that further, as does Blessed Healer if you get to it. Divine Strike will definitely benefit you, but it's in all of these.

Nature gives you a skill proficiency which you might or might not especially need or care about. The heavy armor is wasted again. The most interesting thing it gives you early on is a druid cantrip. Shillelagh wouldn't do you any favors since your Paladin background means you'll be a Strength cleric, but you might get some mileage out of Thorn Whip for battlefield control. Charm Animals and Plants isn't great. Dampen Elements is good for any character that doesn't yet have a reliable use for their reaction. Divine Strike will definitely benefit you, but it's in all of these.

Tempest, once again, gives you proficiencies you already have. Wrath of the Storm is pretty good for you, though. Destructive Wrath synergizes with Wrath of the Storm and some of the domain spells, but doesn't really take advantage of your paladin-ness very well. Thunderbolt Strike could help you out of a tough spot, I suppose, if you take a hit that brings you low enough that you want to get away from the front line: hit them with Wrath of the Storm and Thunderbolt Strike as a reaction, and if there's no one else close by, then you can run away without needing to disengage or risk an opportunity attack. Divine Strike will definitely benefit you, but it's in all of these.

Trickery, from the reading I've done (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?374604-The-Devout-and-the-Dead-a-guide-to-Clerics), is normally hurt by the fact that it doesn't give out heavy armor or martial weapon proficiencies... but you already have those, so you really don't need to worry about that. With that said, Blessing of the Trickster is respectable... if and only if you have someone in your party who would meaningfully benefit from advantage on Stealth checks. If you have a Rogue, for example, it would be amazing. Otherwise... meh, it's not bad. Invoke Duplicity doesn't do you much good because your build wants you up in the enemy's faces, meaning the concentration requirement is a problem and most of the time you don't need it to reach enemies with your spells anyway. Cloak of Shadows is good in a pinch, especially if you're fighting an enemy with high AC and need advantage to get your smite on. Divine Strike will definitely benefit you, but it's in all of these.

[Joe the Rat]

Tempest is a beat-up-your-enemies Domain. From early on you get "electric/thunderous rebuke" when you get hit, which is fun, and you can maximize your lightning/thunder, which is scary awesome. Plus Thunderwave can totally be a spectral wave crashing down and driving your enemies back. If your made-up deity is a sea deity of any sort, Tempest is very fitting. I can see that working well with the proselytizing flounder. "Have you heard the word abou-" >whack> <zot!< "Now then, maybe you'll want to listen..." Higher level tricks (flight)... may not be a perfect fit.

Nature is your Druid Lite Domain. Here the focus is on the sea life rather than sea itself. Is that mancatcher mostly wood? You could Shillelagh the other end. Plus Goodberryoyster. On the other hand, some of that woodsy/planty feel can come from your paladin portion. It would be appropriate for the deity, but may not be what you want to add here.

Life is a default (and not necessarily a domain of your deity, it's just an option for everyone) that goes well on any pacifist-type. Fix the broken (and yourself as a rider).

If you are serious about lockdown, War is probably not the best choice.

[Shining Wrath]

First, ask your DM how many domains your god can have, I think three is not out of the question, but if I were your DM I'd say "New god starts with one, heads of pantheons get 3" - of course, your DM may rule differently and in that case You Are Having Bad Wrong Fun may you prosper. But I think you should ask.

Having done that, which domain suits a guy who thinks he can trap a foe and then convert them while they struggle to escape? That has a sort of War feel to me: "You see I am mightier than you, and thus my god is mightier than yours. Would you care to convert? We're offering a free dagger as a welcoming gift to new converts this week".

Life is the other: "I could slay you - but my powers are of Life, not Death. Would you like to convert?"

Ooops, sorry, read down the page, OP wants min-maxing help on the build.

I think you want mobility and also strength. Heavy armor might encumber you in the water, so I'd deweight that (pun!). Light seems like a fair choice - pin them down, try to convert them, smite them with vigorous smiting if they don't.

[deathbymanga]

If you're a level four paladin, you might want to invest in one more paladin level before you multiclass. That extra attack isn't something to pass up lightly.
But let's talk cleric, shall we?

I didn't see much in your post that actually describes your god. Are the details still up in the air, or is there more you haven't described for us? If the only thing defined about your god so far is that it blesses Ancients paladins, Nature and Life are the two that recommend themselves. So I'll go over those along with Tempest and Trickery.

I was planning to go 5th level paladin, I think I said so up top. This also gives me access to 1st and 2nd level Paladin spells, which means lots of Smite variety.

I don't have much in my mind about what my god is. From what I know, he's a minion of Lolth, and has a Crab motif (similar to how Lolth has a Spider motif). I could bull**** an idea for more about him if you want.


Life seems like a decent choice to me. The heavy armor proficiency isn't going to do you any good, but you get Disciple of Life right off the bat. That, combined with your Lay on Hands, would make you a powerful healer for your team, and if your other cleric is a War cleric, that might be something your party could really benefit from. Preserve Life as a Channel Divinity option just takes that further, as does Blessed Healer if you get to it. Divine Strike will definitely benefit you, but it's in all of these.

Hmm, I was hesitant about going life cleric, because we already had a cleric and I assumed he'd be the healer, but I guess being a War Cleric makes you less inclined to want to heal. Definitely an option.


Nature gives you a skill proficiency which you might or might not especially need or care about. The heavy armor is wasted again. The most interesting thing it gives you early on is a druid cantrip. Shillelagh wouldn't do you any favors since your Paladin background means you'll be a Strength cleric, but you might get some mileage out of Thorn Whip for battlefield control. Charm Animals and Plants isn't great. Dampen Elements is good for any character that doesn't yet have a reliable use for their reaction. Divine Strike will definitely benefit you, but it's in all of these.

This was the one that felt the most right, but I don't have much experience playing a Cleric so I wasn't sure. Thorn Whip was the most intriguing since it is my favourite cantrip. Nature does also offer the most types of damage with their divine strike, so there's that. the Nature Cleric seems best if we end up against a lot of spellcasters and I need to use Dampen to defend against it.


Tempest, once again, gives you proficiencies you already have. Wrath of the Storm is pretty good for you, though. Destructive Wrath synergizes with Wrath of the Storm and some of the domain spells, but doesn't really take advantage of your paladin-ness very well. Thunderbolt Strike could help you out of a tough spot, I suppose, if you take a hit that brings you low enough that you want to get away from the front line: hit them with Wrath of the Storm and Thunderbolt Strike as a reaction, and if there's no one else close by, then you can run away without needing to disengage or risk an opportunity attack. Divine Strike will definitely benefit you, but it's in all of these

like you said, this domain works alongside my paladin levels, but there isn't much synergy. Especially since Paladins don't get many lightning spells.


Trickery, from the reading I've done (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?374604-The-Devout-and-the-Dead-a-guide-to-Clerics), is normally hurt by the fact that it doesn't give out heavy armor or martial weapon proficiencies... but you already have those, so you really don't need to worry about that. With that said, Blessing of the Trickster is respectable... if and only if you have someone in your party who would meaningfully benefit from advantage on Stealth checks. If you have a Rogue, for example, it would be amazing. Otherwise... meh, it's not bad. Invoke Duplicity doesn't do you much good because your build wants you up in the enemy's faces, meaning the concentration requirement is a problem and most of the time you don't need it to reach enemies with your spells anyway. Cloak of Shadows is good in a pinch, especially if you're fighting an enemy with high AC and need advantage to get your smite on. Divine Strike will definitely benefit you, but it's in all of these.

Trickery seems to benefit the most from me, without me benefiting much at all from it.

So, it looks like, among the 4 best candidates, Life is the best option. Nature and Tempest work well, but don't synergies well, and Trickery mostly holds me back.

For my god, I guess I can make them a Nature+Life Domain god then.

[deathbymanga]

First, ask your DM how many domains your god can have, I think three is not out of the question, but if I were your DM I'd say "New god starts with one, heads of pantheons get 3" - of course, your DM may rule differently and in that case You Are Having Bad Wrong Fun may you prosper. But I think you should ask.

Having done that, which domain suits a guy who thinks he can trap a foe and then convert them while they struggle to escape? That has a sort of War feel to me: "You see I am mightier than you, and thus my god is mightier than yours. Would you care to convert? We're offering a free dagger as a welcoming gift to new converts this week".

Life is the other: "I could slay you - but my powers are of Life, not Death. Would you like to convert?"

Ooops, sorry, read down the page, OP wants min-maxing help on the build.

I think you want mobility and also strength. Heavy armor might encumber you in the water, so I'd deweight that (pun!). Light seems like a fair choice - pin them down, try to convert them, smite them with vigorous smiting if they don't.

thanks for the ideas