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Tibbaerrohwen
2015-10-22, 12:11 AM
I'm currently working on a campaign. I don't have a group of players yet, so I cannot ask for their input. I've mostly finished crafting the world (well the continent) that they will be adventuring on. Now I'm concerned about the story.

The general premise is that an ancient evil is infiltrating society and is posed to topple it (Hail Hydra!). What I don't know how to do is get the party interested in investigating this ancient evil. There are bad things happening all around the continent but no one group is taking responsibility.

How can I get a group of strangers interested in finding the cause of some disaster or another without just having a rich guy/noble/king ask them to?

Honest Tiefling
2015-10-22, 12:05 PM
The oldest and bestest trick in the book of course! They steal something from the party. Or try to, let's not be a train conductor here. Many people respond badly to this and will chase that mother****er down, even if the entire universe is on fire. If they have an NPC they like, have the NPC be captured. Not killed, not this early in the game. Just captured, so there's a chance of retrieval.

Segev
2015-10-22, 12:21 PM
First and foremost, I would suggest that you do one of two things:

1) Tell the party to figure out why they all know each other and would be willing to work together on the plot; or
2) Determine a unifying location or event, and tell the party to come up with why their characters are present at that place and time.

This leaves it up to them to ensure that they are present for your plot hook.

Secondly, the key to revealing an overarching mystery is to first establish a good "case of the week" premise, hopefully with a framing device to keep the PCs motivated. Since you mentioned Hydra, I'll point out that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. made the protagonists (the PC-equivalents) into a unified task force working for the eponymous agency, and thus the framing device was deployment to individual cases each week, which they finally figured out were all linked.

Supernatural used the device of Sam and Dean doing supernatural-monster hunting as their sole "job." They went from hot spot to hot spot because that's what they DID. That they eventually learned of linking events between some of the cases they covered was a matter of noticing patterns in seemingly unrelated events.

If you don't want to have "a rich dude" tell the PCs, "you're now a task force, go handle these kinds of things," you'll need a reason for them to be working together in the first place, and that reason needs to be enough of an overarching device that they will do so past the first seemingly-isolated event. If you tell them to come up with why they'd know each other and put aside their lives to work together (or have lives that would cause them to work together), that puts it on them. Otherwise, you'll need your device to shove them together, perhaps as the only people they can rely on for some reason. Post-apocalyptic stories often do this by having the party be randomly together when the apocalypse occurs, and thus having only each other to rely on, literally. Another common device is to have the Big Event that kicks off their adventuring career ruin their lives in some way: perhaps to survive, they had to be at the epicenter of something that is publicly billed as a terrorist attack, and they're branded the terrorists. Now, they all need to clear their names and avoid being caught. If you're willing to bring the overarching connection into play early, they could make an enemy of whatever they had to thwart to survive, and now Its After Them; they keep having to turn to each other because who else knows or even would believe it?

The hardest thing to work with would be disparate individuals randomly brought together for one of these cases, and then trying to rope them into the later, seemingly-isolated ones together.

frasmage
2015-10-22, 02:12 PM
I would agree with the above posts. The first order of business is to frame how the party comes to interact with these events in the first place. Backstory aside, I think it is important that the party engages with these random events because of their own reasons that should be unrelated to the overall plot. For example, they might trip on agents while treasure hunting; they might be caught in a town square where an event occurs while running an errand; a wealthy, but innocent, noble might thank the party for some deed by inviting them to ball or gala where various malfeasance occurs. Let each encounter with your evil faction seem circumstantial.

During each of these encounters, let the observant party members notice various seemingly innocuous details. Things that might be odd, but mundane enough to not warrant much further investigation. As the party goes through more and more encounters with this force, let similar details crop up again and let the party start to draw parallels themselves. You shouldn't need to overdo it for it to be effective over time.

some ideas:
- an unusual mark presents itself somewhere in the scene (graffiti, tattoo on a passerby, arcane mark)
- some people in the area (conspirators) gesture to each other in a unique way or speak with an unusual mannerism
- a particular residue is left at the scene of the crime. For example, you might have charred remnants of paper which presents a trace magical aura if the conspirators used scrolls to trigger an event that seemed like an accident or force of nature.

StealthyRobot
2015-10-22, 08:03 PM
This sounds like something I once tried to do, so I will try to briefly explain how the process went, and the results.

I created the world and the lore, lots of kingdoms, exotic locations, stuff like that. Then, I created the plot. A prophecy that anticipated a war between gods, needing to be stopped. I planned out artifacts needed to stop the war and the locations, and planned out the general path the players would take.
Then I told the Players to make characters, whatever they want as long as they were in City X for whatever reason.

Results: after 2 sessions, PvP followed by criticism.
The players liked the world, but didnt like finding out they had to stop a god (they were level 2 at the time.) They stated that they wanted to be a part of the story, not follow a story to its conclusion.
Another problem was getting the party to actually form a party. The PCs all had their own ambitions and were total strangers, and they didnt feel like they knew one another well enough for a quest like this. (The quest was extensive and by the end would have been level 17+).

Basically, know your players. If they want a cool story, then give them that. If they dont, make minor adventure hooks in your extensive world and let them discover it. And have a plan to get the PCs together before you start playing. We are heavier on the rp, so with being in character it was difficult to keep them together.

I recently started a new campaign using the same world, but they all get to do almost whatever they want. They have been enjoying it so far, and my planning has only gone as far as the next session. If they get through those planned things (or avoid them) then I improv.

Quick edit: Have the players go through something that brings them together before the big mission. Such as being employed by a stranger to rob a house, only for it to be a set up distraction and they get tossed in jail and work together to break out, and are now united by their hatred of the employer. Worked pretty well.

I hope this helps, and if you have any other questions I will gladly answer!

Tibbaerrohwen
2015-10-22, 09:26 PM
This sounds like something I once tried to do, so I will try to briefly explain how the process went, and the results.

I created the world and the lore, lots of kingdoms, exotic locations, stuff like that. Then, I created the plot. A prophecy that anticipated a war between gods, needing to be stopped. I planned out artifacts needed to stop the war and the locations, and planned out the general path the players would take.
Then I told the Players to make characters, whatever they want as long as they were in City X for whatever reason.

Results: after 2 sessions, PvP followed by criticism.
The players liked the world, but didnt like finding out they had to stop a god (they were level 2 at the time.) They stated that they wanted to be a part of the story, not follow a story to its conclusion.
Another problem was getting the party to actually form a party. The PCs all had their own ambitions and were total strangers, and they didnt feel like they knew one another well enough for a quest like this. (The quest was extensive and by the end would have been level 17+).

I recently started a new campaign using the same world, but they all get to do almost whatever they want. They have been enjoying it so far, and my planning has only gone as far as the next session. If they get through those planned things (or avoid them) then I improv.

I hope this helps, and if you have any other questions I will gladly answer!

This strikes home for me, because this is very much what I was planning. I want to give them free-reign and have them run into bits of story here and there, but I'm not sure how to provide that kind of freedom while still tying in an overall story.

The plot right now has them all working with a trading caravan before the group gets sabotaged by a competitor. Everyone dies but the PC's. The competitor is a red herring, but he's powerful and it forces them to act with the proper degree of caution. I'm not sure if it'll be enough to make them want to get vengeance, since it'll be near the beginning of the campaign and they'll barely know each other or the people they were working with.


First and foremost, I would suggest that you do one of two things:

1) Tell the party to figure out why they all know each other and would be willing to work together on the plot; or
2) Determine a unifying location or event, and tell the party to come up with why their characters are present at that place and time.

This leaves it up to them to ensure that they are present for your plot hook.

Secondly, the key to revealing an overarching mystery is to first establish a good "case of the week" premise, hopefully with a framing device to keep the PCs motivated. Since you mentioned Hydra, I'll point out that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. made the protagonists (the PC-equivalents) into a unified task force working for the eponymous agency, and thus the framing device was deployment to individual cases each week, which they finally figured out were all linked.

Supernatural used the device of Sam and Dean doing supernatural-monster hunting as their sole "job." They went from hot spot to hot spot because that's what they DID. That they eventually learned of linking events between some of the cases they covered was a matter of noticing patterns in seemingly unrelated events.

If you don't want to have "a rich dude" tell the PCs, "you're now a task force, go handle these kinds of things," you'll need a reason for them to be working together in the first place, and that reason needs to be enough of an overarching device that they will do so past the first seemingly-isolated event. If you tell them to come up with why they'd know each other and put aside their lives to work together (or have lives that would cause them to work together), that puts it on them. Otherwise, you'll need your device to shove them together, perhaps as the only people they can rely on for some reason. Post-apocalyptic stories often do this by having the party be randomly together when the apocalypse occurs, and thus having only each other to rely on, literally. Another common device is to have the Big Event that kicks off their adventuring career ruin their lives in some way: perhaps to survive, they had to be at the epicenter of something that is publicly billed as a terrorist attack, and they're branded the terrorists. Now, they all need to clear their names and avoid being caught. If you're willing to bring the overarching connection into play early, they could make an enemy of whatever they had to thwart to survive, and now Its After Them; they keep having to turn to each other because who else knows or even would believe it?

The hardest thing to work with would be disparate individuals randomly brought together for one of these cases, and then trying to rope them into the later, seemingly-isolated ones together.

The party will be informed that working together will be necessary for the story. I've had difficult players who just wanted to up and do their own thing, despite what the rest of the party wanted. I tried spotlight sessions for players and such but it was never enough; I'm not dealing with that again.

I'm not sure how to plan out weekly, episodic events. I will work on that.


The oldest and bestest trick in the book of course! They steal something from the party. Or try to, let's not be a train conductor here. Many people respond badly to this and will chase that mother****er down, even if the entire universe is on fire. If they have an NPC they like, have the NPC be captured. Not killed, not this early in the game. Just captured, so there's a chance of retrieval.

I'm saving this for after the red herring. When the real BBEG is revealed, this is, of course, my go-to.

Gorilla2038
2015-10-23, 02:13 AM
I ran a deadlands game once that was similar in theme to this. I started the characters as Pinkertons before the war, ran a couple sessions increasing the wierdness (bank robbery, then a serial killer, then a possession, and then BOOM! Evil warlock). 4 sessions in, and the players were sent forward in time to the default setting, basically having those sessions as a prologue.

They were fish out of water, and quickly found out they were now known as renegade killers across the west.

Point is, if you want a mystery, make them detectives of some kind or other. Suggest they read a mystery book to get in theme, or maybe have a group watching of the Maltese Falcon. Also, if you can, I suggest a system that pushes more towards non combat challenges.

For yourself, glance over Gumshoe. Great hints on every part of a mystery.

Storywise, remember that every mystery has 3 things: The hook, the twist, and the reveal. The hook is why its a mystery (how was he killed in a locked room), the twist is when you redefine whats been going on (Hydra was SHIELD all along!) and the reveal is well, the reveal (Old man Jenkins!)

Personal piece of advice: Never have a organization so powerful the players can't quit. Storming out and going rogue, dragging the reluctant cop (.036 nanoseconds from retirement) with them, in a trope for a reason. Plus, its good way for characters to grow and break away from your hand holding organization.

Edit: Also, try doing character gen as a group. You can even do a Dresden files thing and have them each map out one connection to one other person. Person A is person B's brother. Person C quietly hates Person D because of a love triangle he lost years ago. Etc.

You can also go the Dread route of "Person A saved your life last week, How do you feel about it, and how did they save you?"

Tibbaerrohwen
2015-10-23, 07:22 AM
I ran a deadlands game once that was similar in theme to this. I started the characters as Pinkertons before the war, ran a couple sessions increasing the wierdness (bank robbery, then a serial killer, then a possession, and then BOOM! Evil warlock). 4 sessions in, and the players were sent forward in time to the default setting, basically having those sessions as a prologue.

They were fish out of water, and quickly found out they were now known as renegade killers across the west.

Point is, if you want a mystery, make them detectives of some kind or other. Suggest they read a mystery book to get in theme, or maybe have a group watching of the Maltese Falcon. Also, if you can, I suggest a system that pushes more towards non combat challenges.

For yourself, glance over Gumshoe. Great hints on every part of a mystery.

Storywise, remember that every mystery has 3 things: The hook, the twist, and the reveal. The hook is why its a mystery (how was he killed in a locked room), the twist is when you redefine whats been going on (Hydra was SHIELD all along!) and the reveal is well, the reveal (Old man Jenkins!)

Personal piece of advice: Never have a organization so powerful the players can't quit. Storming out and going rogue, dragging the reluctant cop (.036 nanoseconds from retirement) with them, in a trope for a reason. Plus, its good way for characters to grow and break away from your hand holding organization.

Edit: Also, try doing character gen as a group. You can even do a Dresden files thing and have them each map out one connection to one other person. Person A is person B's brother. Person C quietly hates Person D because of a love triangle he lost years ago. Etc.

You can also go the Dread route of "Person A saved your life last week, How do you feel about it, and how did they save you?"

This is all great advice. One thing: what is Gumshoe?

I might check out the first seasons of a few episodic shoes (Agent's of Shield, Supernatural, etc.) to help with the inspiration. Any suggestions beyond those listed?

I will definitely watch the Maltese Falcon again.

Because of us having new blood and using a new system (Legend from ruleofcool) we will be doing character gen together. Our first session might only be character creation and a few minutes of roleplay, depending on how long it takes.

Gorilla2038
2015-10-24, 03:35 AM
Gumshoe is one of Pelgrane Press' systems, it powers a bunch of stuff like Trail of Cthullhu and Ashen Stars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUMSHOE_System

Honestly, Murder She Wrote might be a good idea for an episodic start, if not as inspiration, then as a case study. X-Files of course, since its the trademark evil conspiracy show.

The best mysteries tend to be in book form IMHO. Conspiracies are best in spy movies. So read Mystery of Edwin Drood while marathoning James Bond.

Darth Ultron
2015-10-24, 02:52 PM
The general premise is that an ancient evil is infiltrating society and is posed to topple it (Hail Hydra!). What I don't know how to do is get the party interested in investigating this ancient evil. There are bad things happening all around the continent but no one group is taking responsibility.

How can I get a group of strangers interested in finding the cause of some disaster or another without just having a rich guy/noble/king ask them to?

Other then just making the characters good and having them stop evil as that is their job, you need to make the characters, and the players, care about the world.

When you sit a player down and say ''Ho no the city of Umberlatopa is in danger'', the average player will be like ''too bad, what to watch some You Tube videos?". Even when that player is ''role playing'' their character they will just be like ''so what?". And there is no really good way to get players to care other then bribing them.

Take a basic Scooby plot: A ''haunted'' inn is going to go out of business as no one will stay there. The owner hires the PC's to do some ghostbusting. The Pc's save the inn, and as a reward the innkeeper lets them stay at the inn for free. Now, the Pc's care about the inn, as they don't want to loose their free ride. So if the town is attacked, the PC's will fight to defend the town(but really just the inn). The PC's will be willing to do just about anything to help the inn(aka help themselves).

Tibbaerrohwen
2015-10-25, 12:04 AM
Other then just making the characters good and having them stop evil as that is their job, you need to make the characters, and the players, care about the world.

When you sit a player down and say ''Ho no the city of Umberlatopa is in danger'', the average player will be like ''too bad, what to watch some You Tube videos?". Even when that player is ''role playing'' their character they will just be like ''so what?". And there is no really good way to get players to care other then bribing them.

Take a basic Scooby plot: A ''haunted'' inn is going to go out of business as no one will stay there. The owner hires the PC's to do some ghostbusting. The Pc's save the inn, and as a reward the innkeeper lets them stay at the inn for free. Now, the Pc's care about the inn, as they don't want to loose their free ride. So if the town is attacked, the PC's will fight to defend the town(but really just the inn). The PC's will be willing to do just about anything to help the inn(aka help themselves).

True enough. I suppose I won't really know what to hook them with until I see their character concepts.

sktarq
2015-10-26, 10:29 PM
There is a rather easy possibility here. Give them a basic theme for the party. If you have a main story already built. And by theme you can go rather big-a law enforcement/detective crew, a bail jumper tracking crew, a search team for a magical institute, secret hand of a holy order. . . . It gives you focus (like anger-oh sorry-ahem) Personally I like to work out the theme at a meeting zero but you could present it as part of shopping the game around.

snowman87
2015-10-27, 09:53 AM
1. PC's are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now they are witnesses that must be hunted.

2. Several small quests where the underlying motivations begin tying together to form a much larger and intricate conspiracy.

3. The PC's are wronged and therefore motivated to investigate, possibly being framed for something (watch Quantico).

4. They are hired by someone who suspects something is wrong, possibly a victim or a guy with a room covered in pictures connected by strings.

5. They are hired by the bad guys under false pretenses until they discover the truth (what a twist!)

6. Several major events happen while they are questing that don't directly concern them but if they decide to investigate will lead to the bigger conspiracy.

7. The PC's stumble across something the bad guys want or need.

8. One of the PC's discover that the conspiracy relates to them or someone they know (or maybe even ALL of them!); possibly they have a heritage that makes them the perfect sacrifice or they are the only one who can open a sealed vault or break a family code hiding information.

9. The bad guys want to corrupt them for their machinations.

10. Etc., etc....

TheOOB
2015-10-28, 01:14 AM
You should always start every campaign by discussing the themes of the campaign with the players, maybe even making a party charter. Players should know what kind of campaign it is, if any special skills are needed, and what kind of motivation they are likely to get. I ran the Tyranny of Dragons official campaign last, and before it started I informed the players that they needed to play heroes, they needed to be willing to oppose and fight the cult of the dragon across great distances with very little promise of reward, and they made characters who, for one reason or another, were willing to fight the cult at every turn.

Tibbaerrohwen
2015-10-28, 02:47 AM
There is a rather easy possibility here. Give them a basic theme for the party. If you have a main story already built. And by theme you can go rather big-a law enforcement/detective crew, a bail jumper tracking crew, a search team for a magical institute, secret hand of a holy order. . . . It gives you focus (like anger-oh sorry-ahem) Personally I like to work out the theme at a meeting zero but you could present it as part of shopping the game around.

I had not thought of that. I may discuss it with my players (when I get some) and see if this is something they can work with.



1. PC's are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now they are witnesses that must be hunted.

2. Several small quests where the underlying motivations begin tying together to form a much larger and intricate conspiracy.



I'm currently working with these two.


You should always start every campaign by discussing the themes of the campaign with the players, maybe even making a party charter. Players should know what kind of campaign it is, if any special skills are needed, and what kind of motivation they are likely to get. I ran the Tyranny of Dragons official campaign last, and before it started I informed the players that they needed to play heroes, they needed to be willing to oppose and fight the cult of the dragon across great distances with very little promise of reward, and they made characters who, for one reason or another, were willing to fight the cult at every turn.

This is a very good point. I don't want my players to think I'm railroading them and I want to give them a good deal of freedom, but there are underlying needs that will have to be met, due in part to the world they will be playing in and, as well, what is happening int hat world.

sktarq
2015-10-28, 06:29 PM
A meeting zero is my preference to work it out but even if you have a big overall theme "agents of law & order in nation/city X" you can still have the players get together and discuss their take on it. Brainstorm various kinds of taskforces and sponsors that would work for you to get discussion started but be ready to have the players pick/come up with their own ones. This also helps built both party and table cohesion. Most players want have a collaborative story building experience when they play TTRPG's and getting them involved so they make characters who they feel will fit in and conect to the story pulls the players in more in my experience.

Also use the time to find out what kind of themes the players want to see in the game-take notes. Ask about focus vs sandbox style issues, do they want side projects like building castles? And would that be run at table or by e-mail outside normal game time.

Also: have a way of kicking the mystery forward if your players turn out to like mysteries but are totally inept at solving them. Some people love the idea but will never think to use their Search, Gather Info, or Investigate type skills. . . Even if they have a bunch invested it them.
Good Luck

Segev
2015-10-30, 02:21 PM
This post may seem like it, but I assure you my goal here is not to tell you you're doing it wrong, nor that your plot is a bad one.

That said, I am now going to point out what I see as potential pitfalls in your plans:

You start off well; you do some pre-game "railroading" by telling the players that their PCs have been hired to work for this merchant and help escort his caravan. The first pitfall I see is that you plan for the PCs to be the "sole survivors" of sabotage by this red herring competitor. Not only is sabotage usually fairly subtle, and done via catspaws to specifically avoid having any evidence link back to you (at least, when you're rival merchant princes or the like), but you're counting on the PCs surviving without managing to save anybody else. This is akin, in many ways, to the classic mistake of having the PCs captured and taken prisoner as a foregone conclusion plot point. While you can probably orchestrate it, it is going to feel scripted and there's a risk the players will feel cheated.

"Worse," there's a possibility that they'll do something remarkable and clever which should or could save one or more of the NPCs (if not the entire caravan).

You are also saying that you hope the desire for revenge will be enough to keep them together. That's not a guarantee. "Well, that's a job we're not being paid for; let's see what else we can do!" is a perfectly valid response from guards, unless they all have personal reasons to feel hurt. There's also little keeping them together, IC, once they reach civilization again, unless they have personal reasons or history to do so naturally.

Having him as a "red herring" may also backfire, if he really does wind up as their prime motivation for sticking together. They may wish to pursue HIM instead of your "real" villain.



Additionally, when I mentioned episodic monsters-of-the-week, I wasn't being literal about the "week." Don't force a timescale on it. My point there was to suggest having a number of seemingly unconnected mini-arcs. A caravan escort mission; a dungeon crawl; a kingdom whose lost its crown prince; all of these things could take more than one session to resolve, but still be "quick." The goal is to drop the clues and hints to the larger plot until they start piecing things together.

It's not the only way to do it. But it's a good way to let the party build a dynamic without having to worry about much beyond the immediate mini-plot until you've laid all the groundwork.