[3.5/PF] Your favourite obscure rule?

[Wonton]

Personally, I just remembered this gem:


If one abjuration spell is active within 10 feet of another for 24 hours or more, the magical fields interfere with each other and create barely visible energy fluctuations. The DC to find such spells with the Perception skill drops by 4.

I seriously think that's probably only been used a handful of times in the history of the game.

Do you have a favourite really obscure rule that most people don't know?

[nyjastul69]

In 3.5 30% of magical weapons shed light as the light spell.

[Psyren]

Many GMs forget that Abjurations extend into the ethereal plane. "That ghost did trigger my alarm, actually."

[Dusk Eclipse]

Many GMs forget that Abjurations extend into the ethereal plane. "That ghost did trigger my alarm, actually."

[Citation Needed] (not being facetious, I genuinely want to know)

[Psyren]

[Citation Needed] (not being facetious, I genuinely want to know)

[Citation Requested] is less facetious if that's what you're going for :smalltongue:

It's tucked away in Ethereal Jaunt: "Force effects and abjurations affect an ethereal creature normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa."

[Dusk Eclipse]

Thank you very much.

[Novawurmson]

In Pathfinder, taking 1 point of ability damage does nothing, even if it would take you from an even score to an odd score (i.e. Str 18, take 1 point of Str damage, no effect).


For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability. If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score.

Ok, so if you were at 1 in a given ability score and take 1 point of damage to that ability, you go unconscious (or die, for Constitution), but in general an odd amount of ability score damage is the same as the same amount of damage -1.

[Snowbluff]

Human Heritage's interaction with the undead type. Due to how specifically it's worked, a human can become a necropolitan, but retain the ability to heal from both positive and negative energy.

In Pathfinder, if you use the Magic Bullet (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/n/named-bullet) spell on an arrow, and then choose a type rather than a creature (if you choose a creature, it would discharge on hit), you can wield it as an improvised melee weapon without it discharging.

Furthermore, Abundant Ammunition allows you to duplicate Named Bullets, since the arrows are under a magic effect, but aren't actually magical like +1 arrows.

Naturally, I discovered these. :3




In Pathfinder, taking 1 point of ability damage does nothing, even if it would take you from an even score to an odd score (i.e. Str 18, take 1 point of Str damage, no effect).



Ok, so if you were at 1 in a given ability score and take 1 point of damage to that ability, you go unconscious (or die, for Constitution), but in general an odd amount of ability score damage is the same as the same amount of damage -1.

D: This is actually one of my least favorite rules ever. I liked debuffing stats.

[Barstro]

In Pathfinder, if you use the Magic Bullet (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/n/named-bullet) spell on an arrow, and then choose a type rather than a creature (if you choose a creature, it would discharge on hit), you can wield it as an improvised melee weapon without it discharging.

You sure? My reading of "selected" and "specific" would contradict that ruling.




Furthermore, Abundant Ammunition allows you to duplicate Named Bullets, since the arrows are under a magic effect, but aren't actually magical like +1 arrows.

Not sure about that one either. Abundant Ammunition seems to have a different description now than I remember from a year ago.

[Snowbluff]

You sure? My reading of "selected" and "specific" would contradict that ruling.

That's irrelevant. It specific creature, not creature type. If you're not specifying/selecting a creature, it's impossible to attack the specified/selected creature.

[Telonius]

My favorite random, obscure, and arbitrary rule: Elves are immune to Ghoul Paralysis. The rule dates way back to OD&D, and was always grandfathered in to later editions. (That reminds me, I've got to check to see if they kept that in 5e).

[Debihuman]

Boiling water causes scalding damage in 3.5 ("Boiling water deals 1d6 points of scalding damage, unless the character is fully immersed, in which case it deals 10d6 points of damage per round of exposure.") rather than fire damage so even fire immunity doesn't help.

I think Pathfinder changed it to fire damage.

Debby

[Necroticplague]

Human Heritage's interaction with the undead type. Due to how specifically it's worked, a human can become a necropolitan, but retain the ability to heal from both positive and negative energy.

Not quiet. Cure X heals living creatures and damages the undead. Since you aren't undead, you aren't damaged. However, you're not alive, either, so you aren't healed. You're healed by negative, and simply ignored by positive.

[Troacctid]

I've seen it joked that high-level characters can stroll through a burning building for basically as long as they want, because fire only deals a paltry 1d6 damage per round. Actually, the risk is much greater, due to the chance of explosions, backdrafts, and collapsing floors or ceilings, which can hit you pretty heavily, as described in DMG2.

[Psyren]

My favorite random, obscure, and arbitrary rule: Elves are immune to Ghoul Paralysis. The rule dates way back to OD&D, and was always grandfathered in to later editions. (That reminds me, I've got to check to see if they kept that in 5e).

Yep, this quirky rule is still in 5e :smallbiggrin:

[Dgrin]

That's irrelevant. It specific creature, not creature type. If you're not specifying/selecting a creature, it's impossible to attack the specified/selected creature.

With that reading, the spell does absolutely nothing if you specify creature type, cause every effect written specifies that it works only versus selected creature.

[Snowbluff]

With that reading, the spell does absolutely nothing if you specify creature type, cause every effect written specifies that it works only versus selected creature.

Huh, good point. *nods*

My favorite obscure rule is that Pathfinder sucks, but there's nothing obscure about that. :smallsmile:

[Sgt. Cookie]

Mechanically, Elves can't grow a beard. It's tucked away in the Silverbeard spell in Spell Compendium.

[Psyren]

I usually love grapes, but they can be so sour too :smalltongue:

One of my favorites is the rule that free actions can be performed during other actions. Combine this with Combat Style Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-style-master-combat), and you can switch styles any time on your turn, even while doing other things - like charging. For example, using Dragon Style to charge through allied squares/difficult terrain, then switching to Pummeling Style and full-attacking the enemy target once you reach them. Or full-attack, stunning fist + Mantis Style on the first blow, if they get stunned Medusa's Wrath triggers for two bonus atacks, and you switch to Jabbing Style to pile on the bonus damage.

[Snowbluff]

I usually love grapes, but they can be so sour too :smalltongue: You're actually using the phrase sour grapes wrong.


One of my favorites is the rule that free actions can be performed during other actions. Combine this with Combat Style Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-style-master-combat), and you can switch styles any time on your turn, even while doing other things - like charging. For example, using Dragon Style to charge through allied squares/difficult terrain, then switching to Pummeling Style and full-attacking the enemy target once you reach them. Or full-attack, stunning fist + Mantis Style on the first blow, if they get stunned Medusa's Wrath triggers for two bonus atacks, and you switch to Jabbing Style to pile on the bonus damage.
ANother fun one is the partial move action option in Legend. For example, a lich can cast Cause Fear using their move action, while using a perception check to determine a creature's weaknesses for a bonus to your next attack.

[Kurald Galain]

If you're an aasimar with the scion of humanity trait and the racial heritage feat, you can take feats or archetypes from pretty much every other race in the book. Except tieflings.

[nyjastul69]

Another one from 3.5 is starting a full round action in one round as a standard action and finishing it the next round with another standard action.

Can this also be done in PF?

[Psyren]

You're actually using the phrase sour grapes wrong.

Mhm, if you say so.



One of the common ones overlooked by DMs is that divine casters don't need to sleep to recover their spells; furthermore, even if interrupted at their designated time, they can pray later ("at the first opportunity") and still get their magic back. Even better, if you only have 15 minutes available at that time, you only need to prepare a single spell, and then you can fill in all the other slots any time during the day that you like.


Another one from 3.5 is starting a full round action in one round as a standard action and finishing it the next round with another standard action.

Can this also be done in PF?

Yes, this is in PF.

One that didn't make it to PF (at least not to my knowledge) is the "partial action charge" if you are staggered or otherwise restricted.

[AvatarVecna]

No matter how strong a Hulking Hurler is, no matter how massive an object they can lift/throw, no matter what kind of area it would cover if hurled IRL, it hits only a single target.

[Psyren]

No matter how strong a Hulking Hurler is, no matter how massive an object they can lift/throw, no matter what kind of area it would cover if hurled IRL, it hits only a single target.

Couldn't you "attack a square" to throw it into the air, then have it fall onto your target? At that point it would use the falling object rules and potentially squash an area.

[Tuvarkz]

Mhm, if you say so.



One of the common ones overlooked by DMs is that divine casters don't need to sleep to recover their spells; furthermore, even if interrupted at their designated time, they can pray later ("at the first opportunity") and still get their magic back. Even better, if you only have 15 minutes available at that time, you only need to prepare a single spell, and then you can fill in all the other slots any time during the day that you like.



Yes, this is in PF.

One that didn't make it to PF (at least not to my knowledge) is the "partial action charge" if you are staggered or otherwise restricted.

In PF, if you can only perform a standard action in your turn (But not because you spent your move action already) you can make a charge, but you can't move more than your speed instead of double.

[AvatarVecna]

Couldn't you "attack a square" to throw it into the air, then have it fall onto your target? At that point it would use the falling object rules and potentially squash an area.

Maybe, but your DM might decide to simulate that by throwing a DMG at you. As it stands, Hulking Hurler has a way to "target a square", but it requires you to be using a Huge or larger weapon (not object, so I think the rules still say you can't target more than a single creature with a hurled mountain).

[Snowbluff]

One of the common ones overlooked by DMs is that divine casters don't need to sleep to recover their spells


I often use this. Get a high perception divine caster, and have a Lesser Restoration to deal with Fatigue.

[Eldan]

My favorite random, obscure, and arbitrary rule: Elves are immune to Ghoul Paralysis. The rule dates way back to OD&D, and was always grandfathered in to later editions. (That reminds me, I've got to check to see if they kept that in 5e).

I remember reading an article that explained that it goes back even before D&D, to the tabletop wargame Chainmail, where apparently, ghouls absolutely destroyed elves regularly, so that rule was added.

[Wonton]

One of my favorites is the rule that free actions can be performed during other actions. Combine this with Combat Style Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-style-master-combat), and you can switch styles any time on your turn, even while doing other things - like charging. For example, using Dragon Style to charge through allied squares/difficult terrain, then switching to Pummeling Style and full-attacking the enemy target once you reach them. Or full-attack, stunning fist + Mantis Style on the first blow, if they get stunned Medusa's Wrath triggers for two bonus atacks, and you switch to Jabbing Style to pile on the bonus damage.

That's pretty awesome. I was re-reading Ultimate Combat yesterday and really wanted to roll a Monk, and this only further increased that desire.

[Zanos]

Not sure how obscure this is, but I don't see it used very frequently. Prepared casters can leave spell slots open, and prepare more spells later in the day, with time based on total slots filled, to a minimum of 15 minutes. Pathfinder even had an Arcane Discovery for this that let you do it in 1 minute. Being able to prepare a utility spell or recast a dispelled buff in 60 seconds is really nice. Also nice if you turn out to be fighting undead that day, so you can prepare some anti-undead stuff after the first encounter.

[oxybe]

3.5 and pathfinder rule that when you begin drowning, it brings your HP to 0. this can, technically, be used both offensively and in a strangely perverse way to reverse the effects of negative HP loss ("OH CRAP THUNK'S DYING AND AT -7", shoves head underwater, begins drowning, HP becomes 0).

it's dumb and the latter will never fly but i love it.

[Psyren]

That's pretty awesome. I was re-reading Ultimate Combat yesterday and really wanted to roll a Monk, and this only further increased that desire.

Unless there's a specific archetype you want, go with the Unchained Monk, they rock!

[Wonton]

Not sure how obscure this is, but I don't see it used very frequently. Prepared casters can leave spell slots open, and prepare more spells later in the day, with time based on total slots filled, to a minimum of 15 minutes. Pathfinder even had an Arcane Discovery for this that let you do it in 1 minute. Being able to prepare a utility spell or recast a dispelled buff in 60 seconds is really nice. Also nice if you turn out to be fighting undead that day, so you can prepare some anti-undead stuff after the first encounter.

You know this is actually really useful as a utility caster. Just yesterday, my Druid found himself in a situation where Ant Haul would have been really useful, but had prepared other level 1 spells for the day. 15 minutes to prepare a key spell is usually not very long in non-combat situations - certainly much better than saying "I can do it if we wait until tomorrow".

[Necroticplague]

Really love the rules for great-than-two-handed-weapons in Savage Species. An extra .5 to the STR modifier to damage for each extra hand beyond two. And the cost for such a weapon is cheap as dirt: cost to make it masterwork, and it includes masterwork's benefits (so basically, comes free with masterwork). Sadly, there's a cap as to how high it can go (8 arms for a x4.5 STR modifier).

[atomicwaffle]

(3.5) If you move at least 10 feet and your base attack bonus is +1 or more, you can draw your weapons as part of your move action.

Friends don't let friends take Quick Draw.

[Deadkitten]

In general, magic armor protects the wearer to a greater extent than nonmagical armor. Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses). All magic armor is also masterwork armor, reducing armor check penalties by 1.

It seems that if you somehow are wearing two sets of armor in Pathfinder or even 3.5, such as light armor and an armored coat or your an oracle with a revelation that gives you an armor bonus, that you can use the enhancement bonus of one set of armor and apply it to your AC while using the armor bonus of the other to your AC.

The wording on armor enhancement bonuses seem to imply that they directly affect your AC and not your armor bonus to AC, which is different than the amulet of natural armor since it applies its enhancement bonus directly to your natural armor value.

[PersonMan]

3.5 and pathfinder rule that when you begin drowning, it brings your HP to 0. this can, technically, be used both offensively and in a strangely perverse way to reverse the effects of negative HP loss ("OH CRAP THUNK'S DYING AND AT -7", shoves head underwater, begins drowning, HP becomes 0).

it's dumb and the latter will never fly but i love it.

On the other hand, unless you have Stormwrack, drowning cannot be stopped and you die the next turn no matter what.

[Forrestfire]

One of my favorite obscure rules in 3.5 is that Oriental Adventures' racial and fluff prerequisites don't actually exist. In the feats chapter of that book, it details how in any setting other than Rokugan, they should be ignored completely, allowing you to take ancestor feats and similar on any character you want (although you can still only take one).


D: This is actually one of my least favorite rules ever. I liked debuffing stats.

Fear not! Because of the way Pathfinder's ability damage works, you're actually better at debuffing stats; you just need to shift gears a bit. Why? Because unlike in 3.5, ability damage doesn't reduce the stat. Since it builds up, and when it equals the stat they go down, this means it stacks a lot better with penalties. In 3.5, you couldn't use a penalty to reduce a stat below 1, and they applied after ability damage. In Pathfinder, the penalty reduces a stat and ability damage doesn't, so the fact that you can't use a penalty to reduce a stat below 1 never comes into play. A penalty just makes the threshold needed to take someone down with ability damage much lower.

My bad, I got confused by some of the inconsistencies in how ability penalties are presented, and misremembered. This advice only applies to spells like bestow curse and blasphemy that say "decrease to an ability score," which actually would decrease the ability score and lower the threshold needed, as nicely laid out by James Jacobs (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kqm0?Ability-Score-Damage-Penalty-and-Drain#31).

[Slithery D]

Fear not! Because of the way Pathfinder's ability damage works, you're actually better at debuffing stats; you just need to shift gears a bit. Why? Because unlike in 3.5, ability damage doesn't reduce the stat. Since it builds up, and when it equals the stat they go down, this means it stacks a lot better with penalties. In 3.5, you couldn't use a penalty to reduce a stat below 1, and they applied after ability damage. In Pathfinder, the penalty reduces a stat and ability damage doesn't, so the fact that you can't use a penalty to reduce a stat below 1 never comes into play. A penalty just makes the threshold needed to take someone down with ability damage much lower.

This is confused, is some ways wrong, and some terms are misused.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores (Do a find on "Ability Score Damage")

There is ability drain (BAD, actually lowers scores for all purposes), ability damage (pretty bad, applies penalties, also makes unconscious if it exceeds the ability score), and ability penalties (like ability damage they cause penalties, but short term and can't make you unconscious).

So ability damage and penalties are the same effect unless damage equals the base score. Drain actually lowers the score, which as extra effects like stripping high level spell casting ability. Ability penalties just nerf selected ability related tests, like spell DCs, saves, attack rolls, etc. Most spells only cause ability penalties, not damage or drain.


Ability Score Penalties

Some spells and abilities cause you to take an ability penalty for a limited amount of time. While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1.

Penalties cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die, so you have to do full drain/damage (not ability score penalty) in order to cause those effects, it does not stack with ability score penalties or lower the threshold like you say above.

So pay attention to what your spells actually do, damage is great, ability score penalties is not. For example Ego Whip.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/ego-whip


You can use your psychic power to overwhelm the target's ego, leaving the target feeling hopeless and unsure of itself. Choose Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma. The target takes a –2 penalty to that ability score, and is also staggered for the first round it's affected. A successful Will save negates the staggered effect and reduces the duration of the penalty to 1 round.

The highest level of this can apply a -10 penalty, but it can never put anyone unconscious or help to do so. The best bet is to pick Wisdom and you've got a guaranteed one round debuff to their Will save so you can follow up with a finisher.

Ray of Enfeeblement is the same, can't make you unconscious, here it even spells it out explicitly, although it's not necessary.

Bestow Curse also calls it out.

The only spells I can think of that would actually do ability damage and force someone unconscious in Pathfinder would be those that cause a poison or disease effect.

[Jormengand]

A couple of my favourites:

- Any silver cord is nearly impossible to break (From Astral Projection, "Luckily, very few things can destroy a silver cord.") All spell component pouches held by spellcasters contain silver cords. (Alarm: "Arcane Focus//A tiny bell and a piece of very fine silver wire", Goods and Services: "A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch").
- Humans are never specified to have the humanoid subtype and are only referred to in passing as being humanoid; they're not assigned any types or subtypes directly.

[Crake]

My personal favourite is that positive/negative energy effects don't suffer from the 50% incorporeal miss chance from a corporeal source.

[CockroachTeaParty]

My favorite is from the 3.5 Jump skill:


If you attempt a Jump check untrained, you land prone unless you beat the DC by 5 or more.

Most of the world's population can't jump 10 ft. without landing on their ass roughly 75% of the time.

Likewise, an untrained wizard using the Jump spell needs to aim 5 ft. less than their intended distance or else they land prone.

[elonin]

Not sure how obscure this is, but I don't see it used very frequently. Prepared casters can leave spell slots open, and prepare more spells later in the day, with time based on total slots filled, to a minimum of 15 minutes. Pathfinder even had an Arcane Discovery for this that let you do it in 1 minute. Being able to prepare a utility spell or recast a dispelled buff in 60 seconds is really nice. Also nice if you turn out to be fighting undead that day, so you can prepare some anti-undead stuff after the first encounter.

I use this in case of that odd utility spell that I don't know I'll need.

Don't know how well known this one is but I hear that there are no more auto make or auto fails for pathfinder saving throws.

[Slithery D]

Don't know how well known this one is but I hear that there are no more auto make or auto fails for pathfinder saving throws.

Not true, unless there's an option for it in Unchained.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Saving-Throws

Automatic Failures and Successes


A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on a saving throw is always a failure (and may cause damage to exposed items; see Items Surviving after a Saving Throw). A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a success.

Skill checks don't auto fail or succeed on a 1 or 20, maybe that's what you were thinking of.

[Aldrakan]

Don't know how well known this one is but I hear that there are no more auto make or auto fails for pathfinder saving throws.

That one's just wrong, saving throws and attack rolls still have those.

Edit: Ninja'd

[OttoVonBigby]

- Any silver cord is nearly impossible to break (From Astral Projection, "Luckily, very few things can destroy a silver cord.") All spell component pouches held by spellcasters contain silver cords. (Alarm: "Arcane Focus//A tiny bell and a piece of very fine silver wire", Goods and Services: "A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch").

Ehhhh... "Any" silver cord is not subject to that line from astral projection; it doesn't say "ANY silver cord." It's meant to refer to just THE "silvery cord" connecting the astral and physical bodies. This specific astral-travel-related silver cord concept is a New Age thing and it comes from the Bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_cord

[elonin]

Sorry bout that. I rely on a friend for my understanding of where pathfinder differs from 3.5 and it seems he was pulling my leg.

By the way how does the drowning yourself back to full health glitch work?

[Aldrakan]

Sorry bout that. I rely on a friend for my understanding of where pathfinder differs from 3.5 and it seems he was pulling my leg.

By the way how does the drowning yourself back to full health glitch work?

I believe it's not up to full, but it gets you out of negatives.
After a certain number of rounds you have to start saving every round continue holding your breath or you immediately go to 0 HP and fall unconscious, and you have to start saving immediately if you're unconscious when you submerge (like someone with negative HP would be). In 3.5 you can deliberately fail any saving throw (in Pathfinder this might only apply to spells), allowing you to go from any negative to 0 by submerging and failing your save. It's the kind of exploit that sticks around by being so abjectly stupid no one can be bothered to remove it.

Although as was said, it just says that the round after that you go to -1 HP, and the round after that you drown, with no stated way to interrupt the process, so its utility is dubious.

[Forrestfire]

-snip of a helpful explanation on ability penalties-

Good points. Sorry for my incorrectness; I got confused and misremembered how ability penalties work in Pathfinder.

[StreamOfTheSky]

The fact that you can 5 ft step as part of a readied action, if you did not move at all on your turn. So many people seem to not realize this, and I've used it to my advantage in countless games to:
1. Get my readied action in (usually an attack)
2. 5 ft step and rob the foe of his attack by moving out of his reach
3. Laugh as the readied action rules switch my initiative to just before the schmuck's, so now I can 5 ft step back into reach and full attack him.

(depending on the reach of myself and my foe, 1 and 2 may happen in reverse -- step inside the reach of a longspear user and hit them with my falchion, for example)

[Mr Adventurer]

A wire isn't a cord.


The fact that you can 5 ft step as part of a readied action, if you did not move at all on your turn. So many people seem to not realize this, and I've used it to my advantage in countless games to:
1. Get my readied action in (usually an attack)
2. 5 ft step and rob the foe of his attack by moving out of his reach
3. Laugh as the readied action rules switch my initiative to just before the schmuck's, so now I can 5 ft step back into reach and full attack him.

(depending on the reach of myself and my foe, 1 and 2 may happen in reverse -- step inside the reach of a longspear user and hit them with my falchion, for example)

The initiative change means you still have to wait for a round to cycle back to [target+1] initiative count though?

[nedz]

[Citation Requested] is less facetious if that's what you're going for :smalltongue:

It's tucked away in Ethereal Jaunt: "Force effects and abjurations affect an ethereal creature normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa."

Also here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#theEtherealPlane).

[Dr TPK]

I didn't read the whole thread, but if you make an untrained jump check, you have to beat the DC by 5 or end up on your face. In most cases, it's not dangerous, but certainly it's embarrassing. Try to enforce this rule in your game!

[Curmudgeon]

From page 171 of the 3.5 Player's Handbook:
The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don’t generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus works (see Combining Magical Effects, below).
Other references to bonus types stacking always give dodge and circumstance bonuses as example exceptions, but leave out racial bonus stacking.

[Jormengand]

Ehhhh... "Any" silver cord is not subject to that line from astral projection; it doesn't say "ANY silver cord." It's meant to refer to just THE "silvery cord" connecting the astral and physical bodies. This specific astral-travel-related silver cord concept is a New Age thing and it comes from the Bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_cord

It says "A silver cord". Not "A silver cord made by the Astral Projection spell".


A wire isn't a cord.

Uh... yeah, it is. cord
kɔːd/
noun
noun: cord

1.
thin, flexible string or rope made from several twisted strands.
"her feet were tied with cord"
synonyms: string, thread, thong, lace, ribbon, strap, tape, tie, line, rope, cable, wire, ligature; More (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define+cord&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=8YsrVuW4CoHbUsrfoSg)

[StreamOfTheSky]

The initiative change means you still have to wait for a round to cycle back to [target+1] initiative count though?

Well, yes. In a duel situation is when that tactic shines the most.

[Kurald Galain]

It says "A silver cord". Not "A silver cord made by the Astral Projection spell".

This is the obscure rules thread, not the dysfunctional rules thread.

[Wonton]

This is the obscure rules thread, not the dysfunctional rules thread.

This. Please stick to the spirit of the thread... this thread should be about rules that make you go "wow, I didn't know that", not loopholes you've found. If you have to argue about it, it's not an obscure rule, it's an unusual interpretation of a common rule. :smallannoyed:

Getting back to it, here's another one I just found:


Rain: It has the same effect on flames, ranged weapon attacks, and Perception checks as severe wind.

Severe Wind: Ranged weapon attacks and Perception checks are at a –4 penalty.

Yup, shooting a crossbow or a bow while it's raining carries a -4 penalty. This one I honestly find really weird, since I don't see how rain would affect the trajectory of an arrow... Yeah, you could argue that the -4 is because the rain makes it harder to see, and therefore harder to aim, but it only says "ranged weapon attacks", so spells are unaffected. Bizarre.

[Lalliman]

Yup, shooting a crossbow or a bow while it's raining carries a -4 penalty. This one I honestly find really weird, since I don't see how rain would affect the trajectory of an arrow...
Because it pushes the arrow down? You'd need some heavy-ass rain for that, but it might be a concern over long distances. Seems unlikely in short range though.

[Wonton]

Because it pushes the arrow down? You'd need some heavy-ass rain for that, but it might be a concern over long distances. Seems unlikely in short range though.

Yeah that's probably the intent but it's just so hard to believe. I mean, arrows travel very fast, and raindrops are very light...

[Curmudgeon]

I don't think it's so much the rain affecting the arrows in flight as soggy bowstrings stretching. A non-taut string will decrease the bow's range and accuracy.

[Wonton]

I don't think it's so much the rain affecting the arrows in flight as soggy bowstrings stretching. A non-taut string will decrease the bow's range and accuracy.

I don't believe the designers of the game thought about it that deeply, but I'll take it. :smalltongue:

[Banjoman42]

(3.5) If you move at least 10 feet and your base attack bonus is +1 or more, you can draw your weapons as part of your move action.

Friends don't let friends take Quick Draw.

Huh. Where's that from, by chance? I feel like I've seen it before and I'm just clueless.

[Wonton]

Huh. Where's that from, by chance? I feel like I've seen it before and I'm just clueless.

It's in the PHB...

Here, on the SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#draworSheatheaWeapon

[Curmudgeon]

(3.5) If you move at least 10 feet and your base attack bonus is +1 or more, you can draw your weapons as part of your move action.
Where is the bolded part from? I don't know of such a restriction. With BAB +1 or more you can draw as a free action at any point of a regular move AFAIK. Drawing right at the start of the move would make a difference about whether you threatened any spaces and could make AoOs.

[Lalliman]

Where is the bolded part from? I don't know of such a restriction. With BAB +1 or more you can draw as a free action at any point of a regular move AFAIK. Drawing right at the start of the move would make a difference about whether you threatened any spaces and could make AoOs.
It's just a way of saying that you can draw it as part of a move but not a 5-foot-step. Despite the different phrasing, the meaning is identical, as there is, as far as I know, no reason you would ever spend a move action to move only 5 feet.

Edit: Unless you for some reason have 5 speed. Slugs have a real hard time drawing weapons.

[Curmudgeon]

It's just a way of saying that you can draw it as part of a move but not a 5-foot-step. Despite the different phrasing, the meaning is identical, as there is, as far as I know, no reason you would ever spend a move action to move only 5 feet.
Actually that happens all the time.
You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness.
Muddy ground? No 5' step. Nighttime or in a dark dungeon? No 5' step. Move actions still work.

[Lalliman]

Actually that happens all the time.
You know what, you're right. I was having a stroke of idiocy while I wrote that.

Something tells me that whoever wrote the "If you move at least 10 feet" part didn't consider those situations either.

[bekeleven]

The very simple conclusion of two well-known rules areas:


Unarmed strikes. They're natural weapons.
Rules on secondary natural weapons.

You can hit with an unarmed strike after every full attack routine. Although I don't think you can if the full attack routine included an unarmed strike.

[Curmudgeon]

You can hit with an unarmed strike after every full attack routine.
Well, that's definitely not allowed if you get more than 2 attacks per full attack.

If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest.
Assuming no other bonuses, if you had a +1 sword and BAB +11 your sword attacks would be at +12/+7/+2. Assuming an unarmed attack treated as a secondary natural weapon with a -5 penalty, that would be at +6. So the above rule requires +12 (sword), +7 (sword), +6 (unarmed secondary natural attack), +2 (sword again).

[Lalliman]

Unarmed strikes. They're natural weapons.

I'm 99% certain that's straight-up not true. Point me to one place where it actually says an unarmed strike is a natural weapon, cause there is none.

What the rules do say is this: "A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity." ( www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#naturalWeapons )

Do I need to explain why that clashes? :P

[gadren]

The very simple conclusion of two well-known rules areas:


Unarmed strikes. They're natural weapons.
Rules on secondary natural weapons.

You can hit with an unarmed strike after every full attack routine. Although I don't think you can if the full attack routine included an unarmed strike.

Unarmed strikes are not natural weapons in Pathfinder, at least:

From the PRD:

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons (see Combat). The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.

EDIT: Seems to be the same in the SRD, too.

The exception is monk's unarmed strike, but only for certain purposes:

A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

[gadren]

This. Please stick to the spirit of the thread... this thread should be about rules that make you go "wow, I didn't know that", not loopholes you've found. If you have to argue about it, it's not an obscure rule, it's an unusual interpretation of a common rule. :smallannoyed:

Getting back to it, here's another one I just found:



Yup, shooting a crossbow or a bow while it's raining carries a -4 penalty. This one I honestly find really weird, since I don't see how rain would affect the trajectory of an arrow... Yeah, you could argue that the -4 is because the rain makes it harder to see, and therefore harder to aim, but it only says "ranged weapon attacks", so spells are unaffected. Bizarre.

This is even more amusing in a game that allows firearms.

[Necroticplague]

I'm 99% certain that's straight-up not true. Point me to one place where it actually says an unarmed strike is a natural weapon, cause there is none.

What the rules do say is this: "A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity." ( www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#naturalWeapons )

Do I need to explain why that clashes? :P

Well, I can find a pretty clear example on the SRD:

Magic weapon gives a weapon a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. (An enhancement bonus does not stack with a masterwork weapon’s +1 bonus on attack rolls.)

You can’t cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as an unarmed strike (instead, see magic fang). A monk’s unarmed strike is considered a weapon, and thus it can be enhanced by this spell.

Also, the Fanged Ring provides you with the Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) feat, which would require that an Unarmed Strike to be a natural weapon for it to do anything.

To that end, I find the most consistent way is to rule an UAS is a natural weapon that is wielded as a light weapon (i.e, you use TWF to get an extra attack with it, instead of making it a secondary natural weapon)

[Curmudgeon]

I'm 99% certain that's straight-up not true. Point me to one place where it actually says an unarmed strike is a natural weapon, cause there is none.
Necroticplague already pointed you to two places (Magic Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicWeapon.htm) spell and Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic, page 101)). I'll point to two more places, in the spells Align Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alignWeapon.htm) and Magic Fang (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicFang.htm):
You can’t cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as an unarmed strike.
Magic fang gives one natural weapon of the subject a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. The spell can affect a slam attack, fist, bite, or other natural weapon. (The spell does not change an unarmed strike’s damage from nonlethal damage to lethal damage.)

[Lalliman]

That brings us back to dysfunctional rules then. The books are written by teams, not single people, so mistakes happen.

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that they don't function as natural weapons for the sake of attacks per round, negating bekeleven's exploit.

[Chester]

Here's one:

"A barbarian who gains a level in any other class automatically gains literacy" (3.5 PH, p. 25). :smallconfused:

[Curmudgeon]

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that they don't function as natural weapons for the sake of attacks per round, negating bekeleven's exploit.
That's not quite right. They're still natural weapons, so obviously they function as natural weapons. However, they don't function as either primary natural weapons or secondary natural weapons, but instead have their own unique rules.



"A barbarian who gains a level in any other class automatically gains literacy" (3.5 PH, p. 25). :smallconfused:
Most classes must come with instruction manuals, then. :smallbiggrin:

[Deadkitten]

Here's one:

"A barbarian who gains a level in any other class automatically gains literacy" (3.5 PH, p. 25). :smallconfused:

Which is Hilarious when they take a level of Totemist.

[torrasque666]

Which is Hilarious when they take a level of Totemist.
That's covered.
If you gain a level in any other class (except barbarian),you automatically gain literacy. A barbarian who gains a
totemist level remains illiterate. Any other character who
gains a totemist level does not lose the literacy he or she
already had.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I've always preferred to interpret the rules such that unarmed strike is normally a manufactured (and probably "improvised") weapon, and thus can't benefit from Imp. Natural Attack, and Magic Weapon works on it while as Magic Fang does not. And that the monk getting to count it as natural whenever its beneficial is part of the class feature, allowing *only* those with Monk's Unarmed Strike or an identical ability (Fist of the Forest; Battle Dancer; Unarmed Swordsage) get to take INA, benefit from either Weapon or Fang spell, benefit from the Fanged Ring, etc...

But I realize that's definitely not RAW, and the actual RAW is very murky on what category it falls into (people have named the examples for natural, but it's also treated as a manufactured weapon in other places...including not being able to use them as 2ndary natural attacks, not threatening with them w/o IUS, appearing on the weapons table, etc...).

EDIT: If unarmed strike IS a natural weapon, and is the character's only natural weapon, he should be getting 1.5x str to damage and the 2H power attack ratio with it, though.

[Necroticplague]

EDIT: If unarmed strike IS a natural weapon, and is the character's only natural weapon, he should be getting 1.5x str to damage and the 2H power attack ratio with it, though.

1. That section is descriptive, not prescriptive. Goristros (and half-goristros) get the 1.5 STR modifier despite having two slams.
2. I don't think 'only natural attacks' get a two-handed PA ratio. I don't see any reference of it under Natural Weapons or Power Attack.
3.As I've stated, they are natural weapons, but you wield them like a light weapon. So they'd be considered light weapons for such purposes (however, they are given a special exception under Power Attack, and the monk class feature gives them a 1.0 STR ratio. Presumably, lacking the monk's class feature, you'd have a .5 STR ratio like any other light weapon).

[Solaris]

This is even more amusing in a game that allows firearms.

I dunno, it kinda makes sense to me. I know I have always shot pretty lousy scores in the rain, and that was with a modern-day firearm designed to handle most weather conditions.

[Eldan]

Presumably, it's because humidity ruins the tension of the string, which is a genuine problem.

[Necroticplague]

Or the fact that a raindrop hitting an arrow alters it's trajectory. Sure, it's a small amount, but there's a lot of raindrops, and it's not exactly something you can compensate for easily.

[Mr Adventurer]

you'd have a .5 STR ratio like any other light weapon).

I don't think this is a thing - are you thinking of secondary natural attacks again?

[Necroticplague]

I don't think this is a thing - are you thinking of secondary natural attacks again?

Hmmm....looking back through the rules, I was confusing the rule for off-hand light weapons with a general rule for light weapons. Off-hand light weapons get .5STR, main hand get STR.

[turbo164]

Which is Hilarious when they take a level of Totemist.


That's covered.

Barbarian + Savage Bard should work though :smallwink:

[Jormengand]

This is the obscure rules thread, not the dysfunctional rules thread.

Yes, and that rule is obscure and funny and I thought I'd point it out. I didn't expect to be met with such resistance for posting a rule that was obscure in a thread for posting obscure rules.

[Slithery D]

{scrubbed}

[Psyren]

Can we just... not use Aspergers as a put-down? Like, ever?


Or the fact that a raindrop hitting an arrow alters it's trajectory. Sure, it's a small amount, but there's a lot of raindrops, and it's not exactly something you can compensate for easily.

That reminds me, there is a -4 penalty to ranged attacks in rain. That's probably mean to represent this (as well as the loss of visibility.)

[zergling.exe]

That reminds me, there is a -4 penalty to ranged attacks in rain. That's probably mean to represent this (as well as the loss of visibility.)

Which is exactly what started this discussion! We've come full circle gentlemen, time to move on from the rain. It is no longer obscure.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Casters need to make a concentration check to cast while taking continuous damage; this means bleed damage and being on fire, or any ongoing effect. DC isn't fantastic, though.

[Troacctid]

Oh, here's one: unique abilities, from DMG2 p157. They're a pretty obscure set of "templates" that can be applied to NPCs for a pretty economical CR adjustment, or to PCs for a less-economic level adjustment. They can give you stuff like extra arms or legs, spell-like abilities, a vestigial twin that acts as an always-on Schism, etc.

Teamwork benefits are also quite obscure and can provide free value to a party that meets the prerequisites (generally not too tough). You'd think at the very least, players would set them up with their familiars and animal companions.

Also, companion spirits. They're pretty darn cool, but nobody knows about them or uses them.

[Mr Adventurer]

Hmmm....looking back through the rules, I was confusing the rule for off-hand light weapons with a general rule for light weapons. Off-hand light weapons get .5STR, main hand get STR.

Again though, are you sure that's not about the weapon being off-hand, regardless of whether it's Light or not? Without checking, I would have said that TWFing with long swords would give you 0.5 Str bonus on the off-hand weapon.

[nyjastul69]

Again though, are you sure that's not about the weapon being off-hand, regardless of whether it's Light or not? Without checking, I would have said that TWFing with long swords would give you 0.5 Str bonus on the off-hand weapon.

You're correct. Any weapon wielded in your off-hand only adds .5 str bonus.

[Curmudgeon]

Oh, here's one: unique abilities, from DMG2 p157. They're a pretty obscure set of "templates" that can be applied to NPCs for a pretty economical CR adjustment, or to PCs for a less-economic level adjustment.
There's no option to use these unique abilities for PCs.

These unique abilities were created for use by NPCs, not PCs. Because player characters might also be subject to unusual or even bizarre circumstances that could confer similar abilities, Table 5–5 also provides a level adjustment for each unique ability. Because these abilities are not balanced for PC use, these level adjustments are quite liberal.
The level adjustment is for PCs with similar abilities, not these particular unique abilities.

[Quertus]

Another one from 3.5 is starting a full round action in one round as a standard action and finishing it the next round with another standard action.


Really love the rules for great-than-two-handed-weapons in Savage Species. An extra .5 to the STR modifier to damage for each extra hand beyond two. And the cost for such a weapon is cheap as dirt: cost to make it masterwork, and it includes masterwork's benefits (so basically, comes free with masterwork). Sadly, there's a cap as to how high it can go (8 arms for a x4.5 STR modifier).


(3.5) If you move at least 10 feet and your base attack bonus is +1 or more, you can draw your weapons as part of your move action.

Friends don't let friends take Quick Draw.


Casters need to make a concentration check to cast while taking continuous damage; this means bleed damage and being on fire, or any ongoing effect. DC isn't fantastic, though.

These are obscure rules? Not sure if I've played with a group that didn't know these. "Not sure", because they haven't all come up in every group, but whenever they did, they were known rules. Although, to be fair, I must admit I forgot the +1 BAB requirement on drawing a weapon as part of a move action.

Off the top of my head, I don't really have a favorite obscure rule. But, in the vein of "you call that obscure":


In 2e, the rules were not very well written, so "AC 10" was... well, we'd call it "Touch AC" these days, but everyone took it to mean "the most horrible terrible easy to hit thing imaginable". So imagine my surprise when I discovered that, with a low enough Dex and no protective items, you could have an AC worse than AC 10.

Armed with this knowledge, I created a new religion following a god of death, whose followers were forbidden to avoid death through unholy things like armor or protective devices. They were trained to *not* avoid blows etc - ie, they had a *maximum* allowed Dex of <whatever gave a penalty to AC>. They also had a special granted "power" that made them immune to protective spells etc (like AoE's cast by their allies) that might make them accidentally avoid death. For the record, these clerics also hated the undead as being an abhorrent defilement of the sanctity of death.

I then created a cleric of this god of death. I only played the character when I knew that the DM would ask people to call out their character's name and AC at the start of the adventure when they were writing down their master list (oddly common in 2e; not sure if I've seen this done in 3.x). Then, when I would respond with <AC worse than 10>, everyone's jaw would drop, people would invariably claim that was impossible, etc etc. Queue me showing how, in the rules, it was completely possible.

Thus, people would quickly be introduced to the concept that a) I was a rules lawyer; b) I didn't necessarily do it for my or the party's benefit. I would draw out the roleplayers whose characters would begin asking my character about the religion he followed. "You are only alive for a short time, but you are dead forever. Which do you want to follow - a god whose focus is on this world, or a god whose focus is on the afterlife?" Several PCs from various parties converted.

Yeah, very few rules had that level of social engineering benefit that "having an AC worse than 10" did for me in 2e.

Oh, and 2e Wild Mages do not have "Chaotic" as a pre-requisite. That rule is responsible for my favorite character.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Well, I'm a pathfinder player. That weapon drawing thing I already knew since I use it so much. For the continuous damage thing, it's one of those things people don't really remember to enforce, at least in my groups. Is there support for the full-round rule as standard actions over two rounds in Pathfinder? I've seen people use it, but it may have been a 3.5 holdover.

[stack]

PF - large creatures can wield large size siege weapons, though they take a penalty doing so. A Minotaur wielding a cannon made for a memorable encounter. Too bad he missed.

[ericgrau]

You may only tumble when your speed is not reduced by armor or weight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm) + a dwarf's speed is not reduced by heavy armor nor a heavy load (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#dwarves) = dwarves may tumble in full plate.

[Snowbluff]

You may only tumble when your speed is not reduced by armor or weight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm) + a dwarf's speed is not reduced by heavy armor nor a heavy load (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#dwarves) = dwarves may tumble in full plate.

Oh man... I have to do this. Dwarf dancer of death. :o

Redtoes Twinklebeard.

[TheCrowing1432]

Everyone is flatfooted at the start of combat until their first turn.


I have been gaming for almost 5 years now and have never seen this rule used.

[bekeleven]

Everyone is flatfooted at the start of combat until their first turn.


I have been gaming for almost 5 years now and have never seen this rule used.

How many rogues have you seen played in the past 5 years?

[TheCrowing1432]

How many rogues have you seen played in the past 5 years?

Rogue is fairly common, they usually just abuse hiding/invisability/flanking

[Solaris]

You may only tumble when your speed is not reduced by armor or weight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm) + a dwarf's speed is not reduced by heavy armor nor a heavy load (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#dwarves) = dwarves may tumble in full plate.

Huh. Some fifteen years I've been playing, and I never noticed that you can't tumble in medium or heavy armor (unless you're a dwarf). I've always just applied Armor Check Penalty as normal.
Seems kinda silly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm11yAXeegg).


Everyone is flatfooted at the start of combat until their first turn.


I have been gaming for almost 5 years now and have never seen this rule used.

That one, however, I've always used.

[Quertus]

Everyone is flatfooted at the start of combat until their first turn.


I have been gaming for almost 5 years now and have never seen this rule used.

... no one has ever won initiative over and then move into melee with a large creature / creature with reach? In 5 years? And no rogue has won initiative over and then attacked (in melee, or in range within 30') a living, "anatomically-enabled" creature? In 5 years? Short of "single campaign, all-caster party", I'm struggling to imagine how it is possible for this rule not to come up.

Or did you just mean that, in your group, everyone with reach has always gotten their AoOs, regardless of whether they were flatfooted, and the rogues have always... chosen not to deal sneak attack damage unless they could flank their foe?

[Telonius]

I do remember, way back when we were just starting out, getting very confused and the whole group thinking that you were only flatfooted if you were in the surprise round. The party rogue was very happy when we finally got it straightened out.

[Wonton]

Here's one:

"A barbarian who gains a level in any other class automatically gains literacy" (3.5 PH, p. 25). :smallconfused:

I like this one, cause it reminds me of the idea (which OotS spoofed, as well) that a Rogue can multiclass into Wizard just by going into a dungeon and killing some monsters, whereas a Wizard (especially something long-lived like an elf) has to spend something like 100 years learning to cast level 1 spells. Which is sort of an obscure rule, or an obscure result of several rules, I guess: A Rogue/Wizard multiclass character can be much, much younger than a Wizard/Rogue multiclass character could possibly be by RAW.


Teamwork benefits are also quite obscure and can provide free value to a party that meets the prerequisites (generally not too tough). You'd think at the very least, players would set them up with their familiars and animal companions.

If you're talking about PF teamwork feats, they seem pretty horrible to me to be honest... a lot of the time your party is paying 2+ feats for an effect that isn't even as powerful as 1 feat - even IF the conditions are met, which doesn't always happen. Lookout is the only one that seems decent to me, and even then you need to stay adjacent 100% of the time or you risk being surprised - which simply isn't realistic because characters need to split off sometimes.


That reminds me, there is a -4 penalty to ranged attacks in rain. That's probably mean to represent this (as well as the loss of visibility.)

Yeah, I brought that up 2 pages ago, get with the program. :smalltongue:


Everyone is flatfooted at the start of combat until their first turn.
I have been gaming for almost 5 years now and have never seen this rule used.

Holy crap, how did I forget this one? Just today that could have been useful, since I won initiative but missed my opening ranged attack. Gotta remember to tell my DM.


You may only tumble when your speed is not reduced by armor or weight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm) + a dwarf's speed is not reduced by heavy armor nor a heavy load (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#dwarves) = dwarves may tumble in full plate.

That's awesome. Not only is the first rule something I didn't know, but the combination of the two makes for something awesome and cool that I didn't know, and could be a fun character to think about.

[Wonton]

As I read the rulebooks again (it's good to have an active game again :smallsmile:), more of my favourite obscure rules come back to me:

Items surviving after a saving throw



Attended (Held/Wielded etc.) Items: Unless the descriptive text for a spell (or attack) specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/damaging-objects#Table-Items-Affected-by-Magical-Attacks) to determine order in which items are affected. Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them.

Yup, an unlucky save vs a damaging spell, and there's a chance your shield/weapon could just burn up.

Casting a high-level scroll


If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell's caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll's caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully.

You can cast spells from scrolls that are higher level than you can normally cast, you just need to make a relatively easy CL check - you succeed on a 3 assuming you're 1 full spell level behind. Woefully underused, in my opinion, both by players and GMs. A 2nd or 3rd level scroll is a really cool piece of loot for a 1st or 2nd-level spellcaster. Effectively, "here's something cool that isn't just boring old gold, AND gives you a preview of cool spells you can cast later, AND gives you additional tactical options to make combat more interesting". It's like a win-win-win situation.

Pathfinder Heal skill

Many people don't know this one cause it wasn't in 3.5, and Heal is not a very popular skill for people to take:


Treat Deadly Wounds (DC 20)

Requirement: You must expend two uses from a healer's kit to perform this task. You take a –2 penalty on your check for each use from a healer's kit that you lack.

When treating deadly wounds, you can restore hit points to a damaged creature. Treating deadly wounds restores 1 hit point per level of the creature. If you exceed the DC by 5 or more, add your Wisdom modifier (if positive) to this amount. A creature can only benefit from its deadly wounds being treated within 24 hours of being injured and never more than once per day.

Yeah, you can ACTUALLY heal people with the heal skill now. It's not great, but it's free healing if you roll well.

[Necroticplague]

These are obscure rules? Not sure if I've played with a group that didn't know these. "Not sure", because they haven't all come up in every group, but whenever they did, they were known rules. Although, to be fair, I must admit I forgot the +1 BAB requirement on drawing a weapon as part of a move action.

I assume the multihanded weapon was obscure because I've never seen anyone use them.

[Deadkitten]

Tumbling is part of movement, so a Tumble check is part of a move action.

My group only noticed recently that tumble is part of a MOVE action and cannot be used with a withdraw, run, or even pounce.

[Troacctid]

If you're talking about PF teamwork feats, they seem pretty horrible to me to be honest... a lot of the time your party is paying 2+ feats for an effect that isn't even as powerful as 1 feat - even IF the conditions are met, which doesn't always happen. Lookout is the only one that seems decent to me, and even then you need to stay adjacent 100% of the time or you risk being surprised - which simply isn't realistic because characters need to split off sometimes.


See, even when I mention the rule by name, people still don't know what it is.

Teamwork benefits (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4862.0) are found in PHB2 and DMG2, with a couple others in other books as well. They don't require a feat. If you meet the prerequisites, you can gain them for free by training with your team (which can be done as part of the level-up process). You can have up to one teamwork benefit per 4 HD of the lowest-level team member.

[Curmudgeon]

My group only noticed recently that tumble is part of a MOVE action and cannot be used with a withdraw, run, or even pounce.
That might have been arguable at the dawn of D&D 3.5, but it's definitely not the case now.

From Complete Adventurer, page 103:

Sprinting Tumble: You can try to tumble past or through an opponent’s space while running by accepting a –20 penalty on your Tumble check.
From the Tiger Claw Sudden Leap maneuver (Tome of Battle, page 89):

As with any movement, you can attempt a Tumble check to avoid any attacks you provoke with this sudden leap.
From Rules Compendium, page 27:

Tumbling during a Charge
You can tumble during a charge, as long as you continue to meet all other criteria for making a charge before, during, and after tumbling.

So we've got explicit statements that Tumble can be used with Run (full-round action) and Charge (special full-round action), as well as a "with any movement" general claim. Tumble is definitely not just part of a move action.

[Zanos]

See, even when I mention the rule by name, people still don't know what it is.

Teamwork benefits (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4862.0) are found in PHB2 and DMG2, with a couple others in other books as well. They don't require a feat. If you meet the prerequisites, you can gain them for free by training with your team (which can be done as part of the level-up process). You can have up to one teamwork benefit per 4 HD of the lowest-level team member.
Wow, is there a maximum amount of members in one team? Missile volley would make low level archers on walls or rooftops brutal. Having a squad of 8 gives them all a +8 bonus on their attack rolls.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Wow, is there a maximum amount of members in one team? Missile volley would make low level archers on walls or rooftops brutal. Having a squad of 8 gives them all a +8 bonus on their attack rolls.

From the PHB2, the quick and dirty is:


The "Team Leader" needs to meet certain requirements (e.g., Hide 8, Listen 8), plus at least an Intelligence of 8. So, if they get enough Intelligence penalties, you can lose the benefit.
The rest of the team needs to meet a "lesser" requirement reqeuiremnt, like Hide 1 in the above example.
The team can have at most 1 teamwork benefit per 4 HD of the team member with the lowest HD. So, you could add your animal companion and psicrystal, but not your familiar. If someone gets HD drain, the group retains the benefits, but can't gain any more until that issue is resolved.
Teams consist of between 2 and 8 characters, who must work/train/adventure together for a minimum of two weeks' time.
You also need to train at least 4 weeks out of the year, assumed to be apart of the normal adventure training time.



They do vary from the possibly ineffective (+2 versus fear effects once all the team has at least a +2 base will save) to the strange (The team can elf trance without anyone in the group that can actually trance!) to the incredibly useful (Crowded Charge, which allows for charging past allies). They're definitely an awesome addition to mooks, high HD/low CR minimally intelligent swarms, and the town guards.

[TheCrowing1432]

... no one has ever won initiative over and then move into melee with a large creature / creature with reach? In 5 years? And no rogue has won initiative over and then attacked (in melee, or in range within 30') a living, "anatomically-enabled" creature? In 5 years? Short of "single campaign, all-caster party", I'm struggling to imagine how it is possible for this rule not to come up.

Or did you just mean that, in your group, everyone with reach has always gotten their AoOs, regardless of whether they were flatfooted, and the rogues have always... chosen not to deal sneak attack damage unless they could flank their foe?

No i mean that as soon as its the rogues turn and he attacks someone, even if that creature hasnt had a turn yet, his attack roll is against their normal AC not their flatfooted.

[Curmudgeon]

No i mean that as soon as its the rogues turn and he attacks someone, even if that creature hasnt had a turn yet, his attack roll is against their normal AC not their flatfooted.
Why would you say that? Flat-footed AC (i.e., without DEX bonus to AC) is what you're supposed to use when attacking a flat-footed creature.
flat-footed

Especially vulnerable to attacks at the beginning of a battle. Characters are flat-footed until their first turns in the initiative cycle. A flat-footed creature loses its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

[Zanos]

Why would you say that? Flat-footed AC (i.e., without DEX bonus to AC) is what you're supposed to use when attacking a flat-footed creature.
He's not saying that's not the correct rule, he's saying that he felt it was an obscure rule, as per the topic.

I disagree that its obscure, but clearly obscurity is partially subjective.

[Mr Adventurer]

From the PHB2, the quick and dirty is:


The "Team Leader" needs to meet certain requirements (e.g., Hide 8, Listen 8), plus at least an Intelligence of 8. So, if they get enough Intelligence penalties, you can lose the benefit.
The rest of the team needs to meet a "lesser" requirement reqeuiremnt, like Hide 1 in the above example.
The team can have at most 1 teamwork benefit per 4 HD of the team member with the lowest HD. So, you could add your animal companion and psicrystal, but not your familiar. If someone gets HD drain, the group retains the benefits, but can't gain any more until that issue is resolved.
Teams consist of between 2 and 8 characters, who must work/train/adventure together for a minimum of two weeks' time.
You also need to train at least 4 weeks out of the year, assumed to be apart of the normal adventure training time.



They do vary from the possibly ineffective (+2 versus fear effects once all the team has at least a +2 base will save) to the strange (The team can elf trance without anyone in the group that can actually trance!) to the incredibly useful (Crowded Charge, which allows for charging past allies). They're definitely an awesome addition to mooks, high HD/low CR minimally intelligent swarms, and the town guards.

I like the Snap Out Of It one where you can give your allies another Will save.

[stack]

Bases do acid damage! See the alkali flask in PF.

Not a dysfunction since I can certainly understand not wanting to invent a novel damage type and descriptor while also encouraging chemistry shenanigans, but still funny.

[Jormengand]

Bases do acid damage! See the alkali flask in PF.

Not a dysfunction since I can certainly understand not wanting to invent a novel damage type and descriptor while also encouraging chemistry shenanigans, but still funny.

Guess what doesn't do acid damage in 3.5?

Acid!

[Hamste]

Guess what doesn't do acid damage in 3.5?

Acid!

Unless if it is stuck in a flask then it does acid damage. Did this one get in the dysfunction thread?

[nyjastul69]

Guess what doesn't do acid damage in 3.5?

Acid!

Acid Arrow, a flask of acid and black dragon breath all do acid damage. What type of acid attack doesn't deal acid damage?

[Eldan]

Environmental acid, such as vats standing around.


.
Acid Effects

Corrosive acids deals 1d6 points of damage per round of exposure except in the case of total immersion (such as into a vat of acid), which deals 10d6 points of damage per round. An attack with acid, such as from a hurled vial or a monster’s spittle, counts as a round of exposure.

The fumes from most acids are inhaled poisons. Those who come close enough to a large body of acid to dunk a creature in it must make a DC 13 Fortitude save or take 1 point of Constitution damage. All such characters must make a second save 1 minute later or take another 1d4 points of Constitution damage.

Creatures immune to acid’s caustic properties might still drown in it if they are totally immersed.

IT's probably meant to be acid damage.

[Jormengand]

Acid Arrow, a flask of acid and black dragon breath all do acid damage. What type of acid attack doesn't deal acid damage?

Acid itself. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#acidEffects) It doesn't have a damage type.

[Hamste]

Acid Arrow, a flask of acid and black dragon breath all do acid damage. What type of acid attack doesn't deal acid damage?

Acid in general. For example an acid vat. It is under the acid rules in case you want a lake of acid or something.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Bases do acid damage! See the alkali flask in PF.

Not a dysfunction since I can certainly understand not wanting to invent a novel damage type and descriptor while also encouraging chemistry shenanigans, but still funny.

Well, in the end the results of an acid burn and an alkali burn aren't too different, as compared to fire or electricity or cold (fire/electricity may have superficial elements, but electricity damage is more about the internal damage than just burns)

[Kitsuneymg]

One that didn't make it to PF (at least not to my knowledge) is the "partial action charge" if you are staggered or otherwise restricted.


Not sure if you've gotten an answer, but the rule is kinda in PF.


If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.

Depending on how pedantic your GM is, you can charge during a surprise round since


In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round.

The option to take a move action might conflict with the bit about being restricted, but since standard actions can always be turned into move actions (thus, you are never restricted to only a standard actions. Also swift, immediate, and free actions exist), it's probably that the intent is that you can charge on a surprise round.

My favorite obscure rule isn't that obscure. Use Martial Versatility (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/coreRaces/humans.html#martial-mastery-(combat)) to get Pummeling Charge (Works with only unarmed strikes) to work with anything in the close, natural, or monk groups. Yeah, it's not good, but it's funny.

[WalkingTheShade]

My favorite random, obscure, and arbitrary rule: Elves are immune to Ghoul Paralysis. The rule dates way back to OD&D, and was always grandfathered in to later editions. (That reminds me, I've got to check to see if they kept that in 5e).
Didn't finish the first page, however, I must intervene cause...
Someone is wrong on the internet (https://xkcd.com/386/)!
Can't source it, but I remember the ruling originates in Chainmail, and was a capacity of elven units that made its way into OD&D as a racial ability.

[Snowbluff]

Not sure if you've gotten an answer, but the rule is kinda in PF.
If it didn't, I use. Players love it, zombies love it. Everyone is happy.


My favorite obscure rule isn't that obscure. Use Martial Versatility (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/coreRaces/humans.html#martial-mastery-(combat)) to get Pummeling Charge (Works with only unarmed strikes) to work with anything in the close, natural, or monk groups. Yeah, it's not good, but it's funny.

Nah, that's weak (and very common). For your benefit, Feral Combat Training. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/feral-combat-training-combat) Slam based Synthesist or a Vital Strike Druid. Smash people. :smallsmile:

On that note, Dimensional Assault (if you take pounce) and Dimensional Dervish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dimensional-dervish) with a Synthesist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---summoner-archetypes/synthesist). Summoners get D Door as a spell, and an SLA, so they can make full attacks with it.

[LudicSavant]

I've seen it joked that high-level characters can stroll through a burning building for basically as long as they want, because fire only deals a paltry 1d6 damage per round. Actually, the risk is much greater, due to the chance of explosions, backdrafts, and collapsing floors or ceilings, which can hit you pretty heavily, as described in DMG2.

But you can light yourself on fire so that they won't grab you.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_AfsPwsviIk0/TESbVCtufnI/AAAAAAAAAZk/yx7XMR2xxNc/dan%20mcninja.jpg

[Vhaidara]

Nah, that's weak (and very common). For your benefit, Feral Combat Training. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/feral-combat-training-combat) Slam based Synthesist or a Vital Strike Druid. Smash people. :smallsmile:

Per one of the FAQs a few months ago, FCT doesn't work for style feats.

[Snowbluff]

Per one of the FAQs a few months ago, FCT doesn't work for style feats.

*facedesk*

*keelsover*

*dies*

*comesbackasghost*

*getsdestroyedby3.5cleric*

[Necroticplague]

Per one of the FAQs a few months ago, FCT doesn't work for style feats.

That seems......incredibly arbitrary.

[Snowbluff]

That seems......incredibly arbitrary.

Well, first Pummeling Style didn't specify.

Then it became unarmed.

So we found a way to make it fun again.

Paizo hates fun.

More on the nose, a bunch of otherwise fun style feats are locked into being unarmed only. :s