PapaEmeritusII
2015-10-22, 03:02 PM
So I have a cleric build that I am happy with, but am at a point in the build where I am not too excited about the next 4 levels of progression (currently at lvl 13). Not sure if this campaign will ever reach epic levels and so the next 4 levels could possible end up being the final (or at least a good portion of the final) progression for this player. I have done extensive research and am coming up blank with where to go from here and hoping for some suggestions. First some details about the party/campaign and character in case it matters or helps someone else with a melee cleric build!
Campaign
Planescape campaign and we are members of the Doomsgaurd (have to be chaotic). Just recently lost a big fight against the Harmonium in which my necromancer (first character I made for this campaign) was deemed too evil (was undead myself...) for them to rehabilitate. Everyone else lived but I was killed after they subdued the party. DM went a little nuts min maxing the 7 guys we faced and could barely scratch them. So I built this cleric (starting at level 12) without any concern for using too much cheese and got the Divine Metamagic (DMM) going pretty well. Also get 1 LA for free without penalty and so even with the half-Minotaur template I am not behind on xp.
Party
I am the party's main melee. It is a large party with some other melee, but none that really know what they are doing. Party consists of:
Lvl 15 Wizard/Alienist Best player in the group by far and main caster. Only character that has not died
Lvl 14 Warlock Listens to everything the guy controlling the alienist says...so not terrible
Lvl 13 Paladin of Slaughter Used to just go full defensive every round, but recently found out that he actually has spells he can cast...not really a melee threat built to tank.
Lvl 13 Berserker Blade (not sure what his class is...some form of barbarian) By far the worst player in the group. Even after years of playing has a hard time figuring attack rolls. Should be a good melee player but has no idea what he is doing...
Lvl 13 Sorcerer/Arcane Archer New character but at least gets it. I helped him make his character and so of course it is awesome.
Lvl 12 Swashbuckler Another player that doesn't really know what he is doing. Dies as often as Kenny in South Park which is why he is the lowest lvl.
Character
CE Human/Half Minotaur Barbarian 1/Cleric 12 I worship Nerull and wish there was some sort of non homebrew Nerul prestige class. My ability scores (non buffed but with equipment bonuses) are as follows:
Strength: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 16
Int: 11
Wis: 19
Charisma: 16
Equipment
Scoured the source books for good equipment and again pretty satisfied
Head: Circlet of Rapid Casting (low lvl quickened spells up to 3/day)
Face: Third Eye Surge (insight bonus to STR up to 3/day)
Neck: Periapt of Wisdom +4 (Factored into ability scores above)
Shoulders: Empty...thinking either cloak of charisma or Banner of the Storms eye (prevents confusion, stun and suppresses fear)
Ring 1: Ring of Sustenance
Ring 2: Empty...think Ring of Freedom of movement
Hands: Devastation Gauntlets (extra d6(s) up to 3/day)
Arms: Strongarm bracers (wield larger weapons w/o penalty)
Body: Planar Tolerance Mithral Chain Shirt (went light armor to keep up high movement on ground and flying...have the feathered wings graft which grants this monstrosity flying).
Torso: Tabard of the Disembodied (Nerull Relic)
Waist: Belt of battle (extra move, standard, or full round action up to 3/day)
Feet: Boots of the battle charger (charge as a standard action)
Weapon: +1 Keen Scythe (will be adding additional enhancements on this)
Shield: +1 Animated Heavy Steel Shield (with Nerulls holy symbol attached...blanking on the name...gives extra rebuke)
Otherwise have 1 night stick to boost rebuke for DMM (DM said I could have more but seems too cheesy to have a bag full of these....).
Feats
Track (half minotaur)
Divine Metamagic (lvl 1 feat)
Extend spell (human bonus feat..probably could have picked something better)
Persistent Spell (lvl 3 feat)
Power Attack (lvl 6 feat)
Cleave (lvl 9 feat)
Improved critical Scythe (lvl 12 feat) *Homeruled that while this does not stack with keen, it adds +1 to crit range when used with keen. So my threat range is 18-20.
Buff Routine (I use my buffs in a selfish manner given my CE nature)
Rebuke pool : 6 From class, 4 from nightstick and 2 from holy symbol
1. Eagle's spledor (for 2 more rebuke attempts)
2. Divine favor (persisted)
3. Divine power (persisted)
4. Visage of the Diety (persisted)
5. Superior Resistance
6. Sense weakness
7. Magic vestment +3 (x2 one for armor one for shield)
8. Greater magic weapon +3
9. False vision
Other notable spells that I usually have prepared: (Access to Mysticism and Trickery Domains)
1. Righteous Might (Thought about persisting this...but there are a lot of places where HUGE won't fit...
2. Rhino's rush
3. Shield of faith
4. Ghost touch armor
5. Resist energy
6. Sense weakness (have 2 memorized...in case I need it after the normal buff routine)
7. Invisibility
8. Masochism (BOVD)
9. Weapon of Energy
10. Non-detection
11. Death Ward
12. Freedom of movement
13. Revivify
14. Stalwart Pact
15. Zealot Pact
16. Greater Dispel Magic
Conundrum
Ok enough detail. The problem is that I do not see any buff spells in level 7 or level 8 that are really that much of an improvement over what I have. I have been telling myself to wait it out to get to Time Stop and Miracle...but Time Stop as awesome as it is, really is not that beneficial since I have DMM. Can't argue Miracle but again will take 5 lvls to get there and not sure if we will make it that far...
Also, being CE eliminates me from the Ordanied Champion PRC and my feat choices prevent others (looked at this hard before making this character at lvl 12 and didn't see the point in many of the options). Lastly my save DCs are so low that I do not even bother looking at offensive spells because it will be shrugged off by anything we come across....assuming it gets past SR!
So a couple of thoughts I have had on where to go from here...
1. Take one level in Dread Necromancer to gain an additional rebuke pool. This will likely happen regardless...but only makes sense to dip 1 lvl IMO.
2. Take a bunch of levels in fighter and use bonus feats to qualify for Weapon Master (3.0 PRC)...but same issue here...would be lvl 18 or 19 by the time I would be able to get the 7 feats needed...improved critical range is the only reason it is on the list and would not be terrible if we do make it to epic lvls.
3. Take on another template. Likely the way I will go because at this point I wouldn't care about a high LA. That being said, when I mentioned this to the DM he said you can only have one template...but I can not find that in the source material anywhere. Originally wanted to be a half-giant and half-minotaur but he shot that down. That being said if there is nothing saying I can't have 2...he would likely allow another template. Choices for acquired templates include:
A. Lich
B. Vampire (would totally do this in a heartbeat if there was a way not to have a vampire that is your master telling you what to do)
C. Favored Soul of Kyruss (like the Nerull connection here)
Conclusion
Ultimately I am probably over thinking this but do not want to be complacent with this build and continue with cleric because its what most players would do. Feel free to call me crazy here and if you made it this far...thanks for reading!
Campaign
Planescape campaign and we are members of the Doomsgaurd (have to be chaotic). Just recently lost a big fight against the Harmonium in which my necromancer (first character I made for this campaign) was deemed too evil (was undead myself...) for them to rehabilitate. Everyone else lived but I was killed after they subdued the party. DM went a little nuts min maxing the 7 guys we faced and could barely scratch them. So I built this cleric (starting at level 12) without any concern for using too much cheese and got the Divine Metamagic (DMM) going pretty well. Also get 1 LA for free without penalty and so even with the half-Minotaur template I am not behind on xp.
Party
I am the party's main melee. It is a large party with some other melee, but none that really know what they are doing. Party consists of:
Lvl 15 Wizard/Alienist Best player in the group by far and main caster. Only character that has not died
Lvl 14 Warlock Listens to everything the guy controlling the alienist says...so not terrible
Lvl 13 Paladin of Slaughter Used to just go full defensive every round, but recently found out that he actually has spells he can cast...not really a melee threat built to tank.
Lvl 13 Berserker Blade (not sure what his class is...some form of barbarian) By far the worst player in the group. Even after years of playing has a hard time figuring attack rolls. Should be a good melee player but has no idea what he is doing...
Lvl 13 Sorcerer/Arcane Archer New character but at least gets it. I helped him make his character and so of course it is awesome.
Lvl 12 Swashbuckler Another player that doesn't really know what he is doing. Dies as often as Kenny in South Park which is why he is the lowest lvl.
Character
CE Human/Half Minotaur Barbarian 1/Cleric 12 I worship Nerull and wish there was some sort of non homebrew Nerul prestige class. My ability scores (non buffed but with equipment bonuses) are as follows:
Strength: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 16
Int: 11
Wis: 19
Charisma: 16
Equipment
Scoured the source books for good equipment and again pretty satisfied
Head: Circlet of Rapid Casting (low lvl quickened spells up to 3/day)
Face: Third Eye Surge (insight bonus to STR up to 3/day)
Neck: Periapt of Wisdom +4 (Factored into ability scores above)
Shoulders: Empty...thinking either cloak of charisma or Banner of the Storms eye (prevents confusion, stun and suppresses fear)
Ring 1: Ring of Sustenance
Ring 2: Empty...think Ring of Freedom of movement
Hands: Devastation Gauntlets (extra d6(s) up to 3/day)
Arms: Strongarm bracers (wield larger weapons w/o penalty)
Body: Planar Tolerance Mithral Chain Shirt (went light armor to keep up high movement on ground and flying...have the feathered wings graft which grants this monstrosity flying).
Torso: Tabard of the Disembodied (Nerull Relic)
Waist: Belt of battle (extra move, standard, or full round action up to 3/day)
Feet: Boots of the battle charger (charge as a standard action)
Weapon: +1 Keen Scythe (will be adding additional enhancements on this)
Shield: +1 Animated Heavy Steel Shield (with Nerulls holy symbol attached...blanking on the name...gives extra rebuke)
Otherwise have 1 night stick to boost rebuke for DMM (DM said I could have more but seems too cheesy to have a bag full of these....).
Feats
Track (half minotaur)
Divine Metamagic (lvl 1 feat)
Extend spell (human bonus feat..probably could have picked something better)
Persistent Spell (lvl 3 feat)
Power Attack (lvl 6 feat)
Cleave (lvl 9 feat)
Improved critical Scythe (lvl 12 feat) *Homeruled that while this does not stack with keen, it adds +1 to crit range when used with keen. So my threat range is 18-20.
Buff Routine (I use my buffs in a selfish manner given my CE nature)
Rebuke pool : 6 From class, 4 from nightstick and 2 from holy symbol
1. Eagle's spledor (for 2 more rebuke attempts)
2. Divine favor (persisted)
3. Divine power (persisted)
4. Visage of the Diety (persisted)
5. Superior Resistance
6. Sense weakness
7. Magic vestment +3 (x2 one for armor one for shield)
8. Greater magic weapon +3
9. False vision
Other notable spells that I usually have prepared: (Access to Mysticism and Trickery Domains)
1. Righteous Might (Thought about persisting this...but there are a lot of places where HUGE won't fit...
2. Rhino's rush
3. Shield of faith
4. Ghost touch armor
5. Resist energy
6. Sense weakness (have 2 memorized...in case I need it after the normal buff routine)
7. Invisibility
8. Masochism (BOVD)
9. Weapon of Energy
10. Non-detection
11. Death Ward
12. Freedom of movement
13. Revivify
14. Stalwart Pact
15. Zealot Pact
16. Greater Dispel Magic
Conundrum
Ok enough detail. The problem is that I do not see any buff spells in level 7 or level 8 that are really that much of an improvement over what I have. I have been telling myself to wait it out to get to Time Stop and Miracle...but Time Stop as awesome as it is, really is not that beneficial since I have DMM. Can't argue Miracle but again will take 5 lvls to get there and not sure if we will make it that far...
Also, being CE eliminates me from the Ordanied Champion PRC and my feat choices prevent others (looked at this hard before making this character at lvl 12 and didn't see the point in many of the options). Lastly my save DCs are so low that I do not even bother looking at offensive spells because it will be shrugged off by anything we come across....assuming it gets past SR!
So a couple of thoughts I have had on where to go from here...
1. Take one level in Dread Necromancer to gain an additional rebuke pool. This will likely happen regardless...but only makes sense to dip 1 lvl IMO.
2. Take a bunch of levels in fighter and use bonus feats to qualify for Weapon Master (3.0 PRC)...but same issue here...would be lvl 18 or 19 by the time I would be able to get the 7 feats needed...improved critical range is the only reason it is on the list and would not be terrible if we do make it to epic lvls.
3. Take on another template. Likely the way I will go because at this point I wouldn't care about a high LA. That being said, when I mentioned this to the DM he said you can only have one template...but I can not find that in the source material anywhere. Originally wanted to be a half-giant and half-minotaur but he shot that down. That being said if there is nothing saying I can't have 2...he would likely allow another template. Choices for acquired templates include:
A. Lich
B. Vampire (would totally do this in a heartbeat if there was a way not to have a vampire that is your master telling you what to do)
C. Favored Soul of Kyruss (like the Nerull connection here)
Conclusion
Ultimately I am probably over thinking this but do not want to be complacent with this build and continue with cleric because its what most players would do. Feel free to call me crazy here and if you made it this far...thanks for reading!