Build Gandalf

[EggKookoo]

No no no, I don't mean adapt Gandalf from LotR. That's been done to death.

In another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19986051&postcount=1698), I asked:

What would be the equivalent of Gandalf in D&D? I mean thematically, not as generated via some kind of reverse engineering from a book? I want a spellcaster/sorcerer/wizard who is basically the most powerful (or among a small number of the most powerful) of his kind, yet is also mortal enough to hang with Halflings and smoke pot. Who has power and renown across the land and his name is whispered with fear and admiration, yet has to break a sweat when swinging his longsword at a few orcs.

Is such a character impossible in 5e D&D?

[sophontteks]

unless your starting at level 20, you cant start as the most powerful caster in the realm.

[EggKookoo]

unless your starting at level 20, you cant start as the most powerful caster in the realm.

Then start him at level 20. This isn't necessarily a PC.

[Ceaon]

Create a level 5-9 wizard with most of his spell slots sealed because of divine mandate. You can use cantrips as much as you want. The GM determined when you may use a spell. Then basically act as a fighter in a party of lv 1-2 fighters.

Because of bounded accuracy, this works in 5E better than in any previous edition.

[Talyn]

I think Gandalf is better represented by a Lore Bard, anyways. Dip a level of Fighter, Rogue or Ranger (or, heck, Paladin, you'll have the stats for it) for armor and weapon proficiencies, and then go pure Lore Bard.

[hymer]

A Planetar is a medium-strength angel, steadfast in its devotion to good. Dock its immunity to frightened and exhaustion, and in turn give it proficiency in some lore skills and survival. Switch the spellcasting to something that fits better thematically. Fire, light and obscurement should be the order of the day, rather than healing and invisibility. Give it the ability to assume the form of an elderly but vigorous human indefinitely, but have certain of its abilities automatically reveal its angelic nature. The angel will only use those when appropriate (such as fighting against death knights on a hill top at night, or a Marilith in the depths of the earth).

[EggKookoo]

Keep in mind it's not necessarily about duplicating Gandalf's specific abilities.

In the old thread, Mara suggested a Deva.

[Doof]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/3jpksw/gandalf_was_really_just_fighter_with_int18/

Champion Fighter 20 with Int 18.

[sophontteks]

I want a spellcaster/sorcerer/wizard who is basically the most powerful (or among a small number of the most powerful) of his kind, yet is also mortal enough to hang with Halflings and smoke pot. Who has power and renown across the land and his name is whispered with fear and admiration, yet has to break a sweat when swinging his longsword at a few orcs.

Reading what you want, and ignoring anything specific to Gandolf, your looking at a level 17-20 spellcaster. Could be a wizard, sorcerer, or bard. That's the only requirement necessary to meet your specifications. Can't be lower then level 17 because hes supposed to be one of the most powerful spellcasters in the realm.

[Ceaon]

In that case, Gandalf is a angelic monster with a few fire-themed spell-like abilities. Building him as one of the PHB race/class combos is almost undoable as DnD magic is way too flashy to ever get the real Gandalf feel.

[Finieous]

Celestial Light Cleric/Paladin (Iluvatar), Servant of the Secret Fire, Wielder of the Flame of Anor. Dual Wielder feat. Mostly casts cantrips and low-level spells, smites with quarterstaff and longsword. Famous for actually using the daylight spell effectively.

[Yorrin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/3jpksw/gandalf_was_really_just_fighter_with_int18/

Champion Fighter 20 with Int 18.

Thank you for posting this. It was a great read.

Going in line with the quoted thread, Gandalf was probably an Eldritch Knight with the school restrictions on his spells removed. High Str/Dex/Int, dual wielding feat and style for his staff + sword shenanigans.

But that's not what you're asking for, of course. You're asking for the new Bladesinger class that everyone is in a tizzy about. It's a straight Wizard build that gives him proficiency in longsword while keeping his casting pure.

[hymer]

Keep in mind it's not necessarily about duplicating Gandalf's specific abilities.

Generally speaking, his abilities are quite thematically appropriate.

[Naanomi]

Gandalf, ignoring the fluff. He was a caster but didn't do anything super impressive with it; he was known as a wizard but in a setting that had maybe a dozen casters in it (and some folks with casting feats maybe) so it wouldn't take much...

He was primarily a skill user; the party know it all and perceptive, socially adept, stealthy...

He was skilled in melee, keeping up with party fighters on the front lines; used martial weapons, wore light or medium armor...

His main schtick was inspiring others...

If single classed: valor bard (which still ends up to skilled in casting for my take); if multiclass, lore bard/martial multiclass (fighter/rogue/ranger?)

[Grey Watcher]

No no no, I don't mean adapt Gandalf from LotR. That's been done to death.

In another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19986051&postcount=1698), I asked:

What would be the equivalent of Gandalf in D&D? I mean thematically, not as generated via some kind of reverse engineering from a book? I want a spellcaster/sorcerer/wizard who is basically the most powerful (or among a small number of the most powerful) of his kind, yet is also mortal enough to hang with Halflings and smoke pot. Who has power and renown across the land and his name is whispered with fear and admiration, yet has to break a sweat when swinging his longsword at a few orcs.

Is such a character impossible in 5e D&D?

Well, the thing is, what you're asking for is almost entirely fluff. Apart from "world renowned, but still breaks a sweat fighting orcs", what you're talking about is pure RP. There's nothing stopping you from taking the statblock of a super-powered Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Warlock, or whatever and describing the character as being humble and gregarious enough to enjoy a simple country party. There's nothing in the statblock that says "As a Wizard, you must spend 3d6 hours of each day locked away in an ivory (or obsidian, if you are Evil) tower, being rude and condescending to peasants and martial characters who stop by."

As for, being among the most powerful examples of your kind in the world, but not being able to kill off a band of orcs completely effortlessly, that seems more like campaign setting design that individual character design (eg, you're in a low-optimization setting, and maybe there are stronger orcs than what the PHB presents). Though bounded accuracy does help, since it keeps the low-end monsters from becoming completely irrelevant at higher levels.

[Malifice]

Gandalf in 5e is best represented as a lore bard/ paladin.

My personal preference is Aasimar Lore bard 15/ paladin 2/ fighter 1.

He has the dual weilder feat and TWF fighting style. Spells are mainly enchantment and divination, plus lightning bolt, fireball (he uses pine cones as a component) counterspell and thaumaturgy (don't mistake me for a conjurer of cheap tricks!). Light, animal messenger, detect magic, pyrotechnics are also on his list.

He doesn't cast often, as its not his way - he is more about inspiring men to action rather than take a direct hand. He mainly uses his slots for divine smites from paladin when TWF with glamdring and his staff (6d8+2) damage a hit. Divine sense is how he picked up the Balrog was about before the rest of the companions.

His signature (and greatest) ability (to inspire fire in the hearts of men) is represented by his bardic inspiration and expertise in persuasion. The cutting words power speaks for itself. (Also has expertise in arcana, history and insight).

When he comes back as the White Mage, add 2 levels of Bard for 9th level spells to bring him to 20th.

[REVISIONIST]

That looked spot on! How would you stat out the ring Cirdan gave him?
(or should that be in another thread?)

[Malifice]

That looked spot on! How would you stat out the ring Cirdan gave him?
(or should that be in another thread?)

I think from memory when I started him up, glamdring was a +2 longsword that dealt an extra 2d8 radiant damage against 'servants of Morgoth' (orcs, trolls, balrogs, Nazgul etc).

Nenya (the elven ring of power/ fire) was said to enhance his ability to inspire fire in the hearts of others and have some power over actual fire. As a ring of power it should be artifiact level.

At a glance it sets his charisma to 24 if lower, grants fire immunity, grants the bardic inspiration of a 5th level bard, or treats you as a Bard of 5 levels higher for bardic inspiration if you are one already, and his fire spells ignore resistance (but not immunity). It also adds +3 to his AC and saves. It also grants him advantage on any charisma based skill check oncd per short rest.

His staff is a +2 d8/ d10 versatile weapon that allows him to expend a spell slot to make a 60' ranged spell attack roll and deal damage equal to 2d10 per slot level expended and push or grab his target (using his spell and save DC). It can also be used for a retributive strike like a fully charged staff of power. It adds +2 to his spell save DCs and Attack rolls when used as a focus, and can be used as an arcane focus for all of his spells.

[GlenSmash!]

Gandalf in 5e is best represented as a lore bard/ paladin.

My personal preference is Aasimar Lore bard 15/ paladin 2/ fighter 1.

He has the dual weilder feat and TWF fighting style. Spells are mainly enchantment and divination, plus lightning bolt, fireball (he uses pine cones as a component) counterspell and thaumaturgy (don't mistake me for a conjurer of cheap tricks!). Light, animal messenger, detect magic, pyrotechnics are also on his list.

He doesn't cast often, as its not his way - he is more about inspiring men to action rather than take a direct hand. He mainly uses his slots for divine smites from paladin when TWF with glamdring and his staff (6d8+2) damage a hit. Divine sense is how he picked up the Balrog was about before the rest of the companions.

His signature (and greatest) ability (to inspire fire in the hearts of men) is represented by his bardic inspiration and expertise in persuasion. The cutting words power speaks for itself. (Also has expertise in arcana, history and insight).

When he comes back as the White Mage, add 2 levels of Bard for 9th level spells to bring him to 20th.

Why TWF? In the novels Gandalf never uses his staff as anything other than a Spellcasting focus or walking stick.

[Yorrin]

Why TWF? In the novels Gandalf never uses his staff as anything other than a Spellcasting focus or walking stick.

Because as much as the novels are canon, Galdalf TWFing in the movies is too cool to not be equally canon.

[Broken Crown]

Because as much as the novels are canon, Galdalf TWFing in the movies is too cool to not be equally canon.

While PeterJackson!Gandalf is very cool, equating him with Gandalf sets an unfortunate precedent: We would logically have to also equate PJ!Aragorn with Aragorn (not too bad), PJ!Frodo with Frodo, or (shudder!) PJ!Legolas with Legolas, PJ!Faramir with Faramir, and PJ!Gimli with Gimli (entirely different characters). I'd rather not go there.

But that's going off on a tangent. I like the interpretation of Gandalf as a Bard with a Paladin dip: It fits his abilities and theme excellently. (Though I'm curious: Why a level of Fighter?)


Nenya (the elven ring of power/ fire) was said to enhance his ability to inspire fire in the hearts of others and have some power over actual fire. As a ring of power it should be artifiact level.

At a glance it sets his charisma to 24 if lower, grants fire immunity... It also adds +3 to his AC and saves....

Not sure where you're getting this. There's no evidence of Gandalf being fireproof that I can recall; if he were, he wouldn't have anything to fear from being caught in a burning tree, for one thing. AC and save bonuses? Meh, why not? No evidence for or against.

The Elven-Rings, in addition to their other powers, did seem to grant powerful protection against detection or influence by Sauron, possibly at the level of a Mind Blank. According to Galadriel, Sauron couldn't read her thoughts or even perceive her; likewise, Gandalf was able to go about his business largely without interference unless he otherwise called attention to himself. However, this protection could fail if Sauron became aware of the Elven-Rings; people weren't even allowed to talk about them. Not quite sure how to model this; D&D really isn't a very good model for Middle-Earth magic.

[Logosloki]

It really depends on how much power you place on gandalf's magical items and race.

For middle earth i would go with no more than a tenth level character. A tenth level knowledge cleric with a folk hero background for example covers most of the basics, except for his martial prowess.

The best thing about going low level is that even though gandalf is gubbinsed up you can scale back the power. Glamdring is just a magic longsword that glows blue when goblinoids are near. It has a venerable history and features prominently in goblinoid faiytales for example.

[Malifice]

While PeterJackson!Gandalf is very cool, equating him with Gandalf sets an unfortunate precedent: We would logically have to also equate PJ!Aragorn with Aragorn (not too bad), PJ!Frodo with Frodo, or (shudder!) PJ!Legolas with Legolas, PJ!Faramir with Faramir, and PJ!Gimli with Gimli (entirely different characters). I'd rather not go there.

But that's going off on a tangent. I like the interpretation of Gandalf as a Bard with a Paladin dip: It fits his abilities and theme excellently. (Though I'm curious: Why a level of Fighter?)



Not sure where you're getting this. There's no evidence of Gandalf being fireproof that I can recall; if he were, he wouldn't have anything to fear from being caught in a burning tree, for one thing. AC and save bonuses? Meh, why not? No evidence for or against.

The Elven-Rings, in addition to their other powers, did seem to grant powerful protection against detection or influence by Sauron, possibly at the level of a Mind Blank. According to Galadriel, Sauron couldn't read her thoughts or even perceive her; likewise, Gandalf was able to go about his business largely without interference unless he otherwise called attention to himself. However, this protection could fail if Sauron became aware of the Elven-Rings; people weren't even allowed to talk about them. Not quite sure how to model this; D&D really isn't a very good model for Middle-Earth magic.

Fighter for TWF style. Not really needed; DW feat works.

I gave Nenya fire related abilities as its the ring of fire (this meant emotion mainly, but was also purported to be power over actual flames also).

[Broken Crown]

I gave Nenya fire related abilities as its the ring of fire (this meant emotion mainly, but was also purported to be power over actual flames also).

Which makes sense, but fire immunity (as opposed to resistance) is explicitly contradicted by the text:

"Long time I fell, and he fell with me. His fire was about me, and I was burned."

– Gandalf, from The Two Towers, Book 1, Chapter V, describing his battle with the Balrog

[Malifice]

Which makes sense, but fire immunity (as opposed to resistance) is explicitly contradicted by the text:

"Long time I fell, and he fell with me. His fire was about me, and I was burned."

– Gandalf, from The Two Towers, Book 1, Chapter V, describing his battle with the Balrog

It was resistance to non magical fire.

Resistance v magical fire.