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View Full Version : Pathfinder Summoner - Focusing on the Eidolon



Dusk Raven
2015-10-23, 03:54 PM
So, in-between hearing of the Summoner being a tad OP, and not caring for the flavor of APG classes as far as fitting them into my setting went, I wrote off the Summoner for some time. "Hey, I like summoning and all, but why a base class and not a Wizard archetype or PrC?"

Then I read about the Eidolon. And I saw how much customizability it had. In the middle of creating a pretty good facsimile of one of my own villain's monster form, I decided I was utterly in love with the Eidolon. Thus, I wanted to play a Summoner.

But in the process of admiring the Eidolon and trying to fit the summoner to my own setting, I began to focus less on the summoning aspect and almost exclusively on the Eidolon. In my mind, the Summoner became like a Persona-user from the Persona games. The Eidolon is a manifestation of their soul, their will to fight. It represents their inner self - or perhaps what they aspire to be. Thus, their abilities should focus on it. This is not a Druid's animal companion here - they are half, if not more, of a Summoner's fighting potential.

So, to that end, I aim to homebrew the Summoner to take away the unnecessary extras. Note that, given the Summoner's power, the removed features need not be replaced. Anyway, first to go is the Summon Monster as a spell-like ability. The number of uses per day you get it seems quite excessive... or it would if you could use it at the same time as your Eidolon. So obviously, it must go. Next is the spellcasting ability. I'm not particularly opposed to it - I can see how bonding with an Eidolon can give a humanoid some spellcasting ability, after all, so long as it's clear that the Eidolon causes the magical ability and not the other way around. I don't really know what I would replace it with, either, although I could see changing the spell list to focus more on support.

So, that's the short of it. Any suggestions for an Eidolon-exclusive Summoner variant? I should note that I looked through the Summoner Archetypes and found a few I liked but none that fit this role, so I'd like to try and fill that gap. And maybe even apply those changes to the Synthesist, too, since I loved the concept of that variant if not the execution. Maybe we can make it less broken, too...

Solaris
2015-10-23, 08:29 PM
I'm presently working on a variant (for 3.5E, but the concept still works) that has the eidolon be a transformation for a familiar/low-grade animal companion rather than summoned from the aether.

Have you considered making the Summoner himself be more of a skillmonkey/buffer type (such as a Bard or Archivist from 3.5) to replace the loss of casting?

Xzoltar
2015-10-23, 08:57 PM
In a past game one Summoner had an Shapeshifter Archetype that remove spellcasting to give Martial Maneuver and Stance instead and with a good Base Attack bonus, no Summoning abilities and instead of the Eidolon he gain the ability to change shape to one of the base form of an Eidolon with modifications apply to him. He was able to alternate between form as a Shapechanger (think it was 1 form per Summoning Monster rank he was supposed to have up to 10 form when your supposed to get Gate), was a fun character.

Milo v3
2015-10-25, 09:57 AM
Does this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?453270-Battlebound-Summoner&p=19993538#post19993538) fit any better?

khadgar567
2015-10-25, 11:13 AM
Does this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?453270-Battlebound-Summoner&p=19993538#post19993538) fit any better?
he wants pure eidolon not a kung fu eidolon

Milo v3
2015-10-25, 02:41 PM
he wants pure eidolon not a kung fu eidolon

Don't see a single kung fu ability in there.

Dusk Raven
2015-10-25, 10:37 PM
Don't see a single kung fu ability in there.

I believe they saw "manuevers" and instantly thought of Tome of Battle, and if I were betting man I'd say they don't think much of Tome of Battle.

Regardless, I can't much comment on the post since it's evidently either unfinished or in serious need of editing. Like, I'm not really sure what a "nightmare" is supposed to be in that context.

Nonetheless, could be interesting, although as stated I'm looking specifically for enhancements to the Eidolon at the expense of the Summoner's spell-like abilities, and to some extent its spellcasting, though the connection to an Eidolon could be a justification for having spellcasting ability... or alternatively, spell-like abilities like 3.5's Warlock.

Milo v3
2015-10-25, 10:45 PM
Regardless, I can't much comment on the post since it's evidently either unfinished or in serious need of editing. Like, I'm not really sure what a "nightmare" is supposed to be in that context.
It is finished, those three mentions were just copy and paste errors. Fixed now.


Nonetheless, could be interesting, although as stated I'm looking specifically for enhancements to the Eidolon at the expense of the Summoner's spell-like abilities, and to some extent its spellcasting, though the connection to an Eidolon could be a justification for having spellcasting ability... or alternatively, spell-like abilities like 3.5's Warlock.
It does enhance the eidolon at the cost of spellcasting, since you lose spellcasting effectively give your eidolon initiating. But I can understand if it is not what you're looking for.