Launch Item Spell Uses

[g3taso]

I love the Launch Item spell, particularly the cantrip verson from the Spell Compendium. I love it for a couple of reasons, but the top two are 100'-300' of range depending on level as well as not having a attack roll to hit (unless it is a splash weapon). Here are some uses I was thinking of that I was going to throw out for comment:

1. With persistent/lingering or other shenanigans this might be persisted. Being able to throw stuff as a free action while doing other things seems a good thing.
2. Use with Shrink Item (or chain both) to make a "claymore" of suddenly very large, very damaging large rocks/spikes/knives as shot.
3. Glyph seals with nice spell effects like Fireball, Stinking Cloud, Sleet Storm or other effects. My personal favorite would be AoE spells.

So, how can these ideas be improved on? Specific spells? Specific Objects? What other great uses for this underappreciated cantrip can be dreamed up by the board?

[ryu]

I love the Launch Item spell, particularly the cantrip verson from the Spell Compendium. I love it for a couple of reasons, but the top two are 100'-300' of range depending on level as well as not having a attack roll to hit (unless it is a splash weapon). Here are some uses I was thinking of that I was going to throw out for comment:

1. With persistent/lingering or other shenanigans this might be persisted. Being able to throw stuff as a free action while doing other things seems a good thing.
2. Use with Shrink Item (or chain both) to make a "claymore" of suddenly very large, very damaging large rocks/spikes/knives as shot.
3. Glyph seals with nice spell effects like Fireball, Stinking Cloud, Sleet Storm or other effects. My personal favorite would be AoE spells.

So, how can these ideas be improved on? Specific spells? Specific Objects? What other great uses for this underappreciated cantrip can be dreamed up by the board?

Colossal size class bolts. Bolts have damage scaling by size and that's the biggest you get. Suddenly you have a cantrip that basically fires entire trees at people. Not technically, but basically.

[Curmudgeon]

Colossal size class bolts. Bolts have damage scaling by size and that's the biggest you get.
That's not correct. If you consult the Weapons Table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#tableWeapons), you'll see that every bolt has a damage entry of "—". The damage comes from the crossbow, while the bolt is merely a delivery mechanism. Launch Item doesn't deal any damage with a crossbow bolt; that's why there's another cantrip called Launch Bolt which has a damage specification in the spell description.

[ryu]

That's not correct. If you consult the Weapons Table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#tableWeapons), you'll see that every bolt has a damage entry of "—". The damage comes from the crossbow, while the bolt is merely a delivery mechanism. Launch Item doesn't deal any damage with a crossbow bolt; that's why there's another cantrip called Launch Bolt which has a damage specification in the spell description.

I just checked both entries for that spell and, no, you are manifestly incorrect. It never specifies damage. Not even a mention of what type of damage dice to even roll let alone how many.

[daremetoidareyo]

Launch bolt needs to be disambiguated here.

Curmudgeon is absolutely correct about the weapon table and bolts deriving damage value from what they were shot FROM.

That spell clearly does damage according to a light crossbow, but it does not designate size of said crossbow. Further, "Any properties of the crossbow bolt (such as magical abilities, masterwork quality, and so on) or feats you possess (such as Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus [light crossbow], and so on) apply." This absolutely condones the use size as a "property" As far as I know, "property" has never been defined to be a specific game term except in the parenthesis that follows, which seems to list the types of things that are considered properties. Masterwork quality, the presence of magical abilities, and so on. "And so on" can absolutely include size as a property.

HOWEVER: The size of the bolt isn't mentioned, but you must pay exactly 1sp in order to use it for the spell, for the material component is: "The crossbow bolt to be fired (1 sp)."

This makes for a really interesting conundrum. How does one get a colossal crossbow bolt for only 1sp? Solve it, and you can break the 0 level spell all you please.


Launch item, however, reads differently. It confines you to launching a "fine" item, which therefor invalidates any use of a colossal bolt.

[g3taso]

I was thinking shrinking item on bowling balls, 4' diameter stone cubes, a 55-gallon drum of (cheap) lamp oil with some nice sulfur in it, some naptha or other goodies.

[Curmudgeon]

That spell clearly does damage according to a light crossbow, but it does not designate size of said crossbow.
There is, however, the usual rule about inappropriately sized weapons.
Inappropriately Sized Weapons
A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.
A crossbow is a ranged weapon made to work for a particular size of user. If the size is altered to something other than that of the wielder it was designed for, it becomes a ranged weapon made to work for a different size of user. That's always "something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed", because those are melee-only weapon categories. Thus, you can never wield a crossbow other than appropriate to your size. Launch Bolt thus deals damage determined by the spellcaster wielding the only light crossbow they're allowed to use.

This is probably an example of the law of unintended consequences (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended_consequences), but it's the RAW.

[ryu]

Launch bolt needs to be disambiguated here.

Curmudgeon is absolutely correct about the weapon table and bolts deriving damage value from what they were shot FROM.

That spell clearly does damage according to a light crossbow, but it does not designate size of said crossbow. Further, "Any properties of the crossbow bolt (such as magical abilities, masterwork quality, and so on) or feats you possess (such as Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus [light crossbow], and so on) apply." This absolutely condones the use size as a "property" As far as I know, "property" has never been defined to be a specific game term except in the parenthesis that follows, which seems to list the types of things that are considered properties. Masterwork quality, the presence of magical abilities, and so on. "And so on" can absolutely include size as a property.

HOWEVER: The size of the bolt isn't mentioned, but you must pay exactly 1sp in order to use it for the spell, for the material component is: "The crossbow bolt to be fired (1 sp)."

This makes for a really interesting conundrum. How does one get a colossal crossbow bolt for only 1sp? Solve it, and you can break the 0 level spell all you please.


Launch item, however, reads differently. It confines you to launching a "fine" item, which therefor invalidates any use of a colossal bolt.

So all that needs to happen is to obtain the bolt itself for one sp? Fabricate your own in a wizard party and sell them to each other 1sp each. Alternatively take the necessary eschew material components feats and generate free matter with a transmutation cantrip. I'm a very deliberately silly person when I wizard.

At no point does launch bolt make reference to weapons of any kind save for the similarity to type of firing mechanism. You never wield a crossbow so that rule is irrelevant.

[daremetoidareyo]

So we have a few fronts to optimize here.


"Fine items in your possession"
1. Alchemical items (tanglefoot bag, thunderstone, alchemists fire, poison, drugs, ravages, etc)

2. Magically shrinking highly damaging items (delayed blast fireballs, shrunk heavy stones, drums of alchemist items, etc)

3. Fine sized creatures (mind leeches? or toads)

4. Used as a means to lose super important McGuffins through the use of the definition of "Ammunition." From the SRD (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ammunition) "Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while normal ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost." If you shrink your opponent or an ancient elder evil artifact, and you launch it via this feat at the broad side of a barn, you have a 95% chance to destroy or render it useless, assuming you can hit a barn.

5. Chain spell: it moves to another target. You are targetting the item, not who you want it to hit. Chain spell affects a number of targets = caster level. You can shoot 1/alchemical item per level ina single turn. If you're 5th level, you can shoot 5 tangle foot bags a round with a 3 level spell. 6 if you're a transmuter... Chain spell only works on spells with a range greater than touch...So you need to take reach spell first.


6. innate spell: Just choose an alchemists item, it doesn't matter. 3/day, you get to shoot one as a spell like ability. Pair with chain spell to make an alchemical gatling gun sorcerer, especially if you arcane fusion that badboy with something that makes alchemical weapons hurt more.

7. "Falling?" damage

There's no damage. From page 303 of Dungeon Master's Guide:
Gaining immense weight without falling doesn't generally cause damage in D&D.

Ah but that just means you must shoot from elevation. There are... ways to arrange a height differential of ten feet.
Shoot at the wall directly behind your opponent, at least a great height of a "shrunk object" huge block of plutonium. Shrink spell disperses. A ton of weight crashes downward, if trajectory isn't maintained. Opponent must make a reflex save??? or suffer some sort of falling item damage.
or
Launch at a downward arc from up high.

[ryu]

Sadly shrunken items change weight and lose damage for it. May still be relevant if launched items maintain their velocity entering antimagic fields.

[Curmudgeon]

At no point does launch bolt make reference to weapons of any kind save for the similarity to type of firing mechanism. You never wield a crossbow so that rule is irrelevant.

You cast this spell on a crossbow bolt, causing it to fly at a target of your choice as if you had fired it from a light crossbow, using a ranged attack roll.
The only light crossbow you are permitted to use (make a ranged attack roll with) is the one suited to your size.

[daremetoidareyo]

Sadly shrunken items change weight and lose damage for it. May still be relevant if launched items maintain their velocity entering antimagic fields.

From Shrink Item:
"Objects changed by a shrink item spell can be returned to normal composition and size merely by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of command from the original caster. Even a burning fire and its fuel can be shrunk by this spell. Restoring the shrunken object to its normal size and composition ends the spell."

If you choose the solid surface of "my opponent," how much damage does your DM adjudicate? If not, couldn't a mage use the command word immediately after firing, you know, to figure if the DM is going to keep the trajectory speed independent of weight (I don't know, magic is weird sometimes).

[ryu]

The only light crossbow you are permitted to use (make a ranged attack roll with) is the one suited to your size.

Similar to if that happened yes. It never actually happens, no weapon is used, and the spell makes no mention of being able to even use a light crossbow. Technically the only thing requiring proficiency is the fact that it states feats apply.

Edit: Interesting idea. I forgot the command word.

[Curmudgeon]

If you choose the solid surface of "my opponent," how much damage does your DM adjudicate?
There's no damage. From page 303 of Dungeon Master's Guide:
For each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet.
Gaining immense weight without falling doesn't generally cause damage in D&D.

[ryu]

There's no damage. From page 303 of Dungeon Master's Guide:
Gaining immense weight without falling doesn't generally cause damage in D&D.

Ah but that just means you must shoot from elevation. There are... ways to arrange a height differential of ten feet. That's just the straightforward way of being a silly person too. That clause doesn't explicitly mention the object had to fall ten feet onto the target, or that day, or more than once ever.

[daremetoidareyo]

Similar to if that happened yes. It never actually happens, no weapon is used, and the spell makes no mention of being able to even use a light crossbow. Technically the only thing requiring proficiency is the fact that it states feats apply.

Edit: Interesting idea. I forgot the command word.

Makes for interesting use of crossbow sniper.

or penetrating shot, if you got the stats for it

Smiting spell is funny, you place the spell launch item on a bolt, then you launch the bolt, which discharges the smiting spell if it hits it's target, so it can target anyone else after hitting its target.