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foobar1969
2015-10-24, 10:36 AM
IMO, PHB 5 was published with an obvious failing: every school of wizard magic should have a spell or two at every level (up to 5th at least).

Fear: 3rd level Enchantment (instead of Illusion)

Animate Deadbeef
4th level Necromancy
This spell is like animate dead in most respects, except that it affects one Large corpse or pile of bones, or two Medium ones, of any flesh and bone creature (e.g. not elementals, oozes, plants, etc.).

(stats needed for large skeletons & zombies.)

Waves of Fatigue
5th level Necromancy
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self (30 foot cone)
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
Waves of negative energy flow from your hand. Each living creature in a 30 foot cone must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or gain one level of exhaustion, up to a maximum of level 3.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 6th level or higher, the size of the cone increases by 30 feet for each slot level above 5th.

rlc
2015-10-26, 01:54 PM
Well, the first one could probably use a better name, but I like both of them. I've actually been thinking about a spell or monster ability that uses exhaustion, but haven't had the time to put one together, myself.

Princess
2015-10-30, 01:44 AM
This is definitely an issue. I'll come up with a list of every school/level combination with nothing available and post it tomorrow some time.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-10-30, 04:08 AM
This is definitely an issue. I'll come up with a list of every school/level combination with nothing available and post it tomorrow some time.

Sweet. If you don't already have something similar, I made an excel sheet (https://www.dropbox.com/s/174cmn015miyh06/Spell%20Matrix.xlsm?dl=0) that will allow you to sort & filter by level, school and class. It could help speed up the process.

And I'll be happy to help with homebrewing new spells to fill the gaps!

Edit: just taking a quick look myself. There are glaring gaps. Bards don't have any 1st-level abjurations. Rangers don't have any 2nd-level conjurations. Excluding 'expanded' spells, warlocks don't have any evocations from 3rd through 6th-level. There are no 3rd- or 7th-level enchantments, 7th- or 8th-level divinations or 8th-level illusions in the game!

Princess
2015-10-30, 03:37 PM
I'm not as concerned with gaps at certain levels for any class that doesn't primarily rely on certain spells, but for Wizards, Arcane Tricksters, and Eldritch Knights, who all use the wizard list and have an interest in particular spell schools, it's a more significant issue.

Looking only at wizard spells:

Abjuration only has 1 option at level 7

Divination has nothing, at all, for 7 or 8, and only 1 at 9 (Though 9th level spells are few and far between enough that this is less of an issue.)

Enchantment has nothing at all for level 3 or 7, and only 1 at 9

Illusion gets nothing for 8, and only 1 each at 6 and 9

Necromancy only gets 1 at 4, 8, and 9

And since when is Telepathy an Evocation spell? I mean, technically brain impulses are electric, but... Divination or Enchantment Specialists need to have words with those crazy Evokers.

Anyway, I'm not as worried about 9th level spells, but Divination, Enchantment, and Illusion specialists are missing out, and to a lesser extent, higher level arcane tricksters. The most glaring issue I see is the complete dead level for Enchantment at 3rd. Elation from 3E comes to mind as a possible place to start, along with any other previous edition spells that haven't made the transition yet.


Elation - 3rd Level Enchantment - Bard, Cleric, Wizard

Casting Time - 1 action
Range - 30 ft.
Components - V, S
Duration - 1 minute

Effect - All allies within range are filled with enegy, granting them +5 ft. to speed, +1 attack and damage with weapon attacks, and allows them to ignore the effect of a single level of exhaustion for the duration.

And a somewhat original take on another 3.5 idea:

Dizziness - 3rd Level Enchantment - Bard, Wizard

Casting Time - 1 action
Range - 60 ft.
Component - V, S
Duration - 1 minute, concentration

A single target within range must make a Wisdom saving throw or be affected as follows: Each turn, the creature may only take a single action or move, not both, and any attempt to cast a spell requires a concentration check against your spell save DC or it fails automatically.


So Elation was clearly a 3.5-era whole party buff to throw up first thing in a fight, and I'm intending Dizziness as a high risk, high reward anti-caster spell (Because casters are good with wisdom saves, but if it works, it messes them up quite a bit). I welcome any constructive feedback.

Flashy
2015-10-30, 04:12 PM
Elation should absolutely be made concentration.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-10-30, 05:05 PM
Elation should absolutely be made concentration.

Yeah, it's basically a supercharged Bless. It has to be concentration.

And I would definitely insert a save-ends clause into Dizziness. It would make more sense than most! It's not like "oh yeah, my liver just sorted out that dose of deadly poison in 12 seconds flat". Dizziness (as a condition) is something that can just pass of its own accord.

While we're focussing on enchantments, I'd like to remind everyone of my Power Word spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19906050&postcount=1). This includes four (four!) 7th-level enchantments, which should more than correct the imbalance.

Power Word: Blind
7th-level enchantment

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous

You speak a word of power that can overwhelm the mind of one creature you can see within range, leaving it blind. If the target has 150 hit points or fewer, it is blinded. Otherwise, the spell has no effect.
The blinded target must make a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns. On a successful save, this effect ends.


Power Word: Deafen
7th-level enchantment

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous

You speak a word of power that can overwhelm the mind of one creature you can see within range, leaving it deafened. If the target has 150 hit points or fewer, it is deafened. Otherwise, the spell has no effect.
The deafened target must make a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns. On a successful save, this effect ends.


Power Word: Pain
7th-level enchantment

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous

You speak a word of awful power that can overwhelm the mind of one creature you can see within range, leaving it in intense pain. If the target has 150 hit points or fewer, it is incapacitated. Otherwise, the spell has no effect.
The incapacitated target must make a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns. On a successful save, this effect ends.


Power Word: Silence
7th-level enchantment

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous

You speak a word of power that can overwhelm the mind of one creature you can see within range, leaving it silenced. If the target has 150 hit points or fewer, it is unable to speak or perform the verbal components of spells. Otherwise, the spell has no effect.
The silenced target must make a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns. On a successful save, this effect ends.

Princess
2015-10-30, 06:41 PM
Adding concentration to Elation is an easy enough addition, but I feel like concentration is easy to overuse, and the question to ask would be, is there a reason to make this mutually exclusive to another concentration based spell? Bless would be a good example of a possible issue.

I'm worried adding a save ends early element to Dizziness would make it objectively worse than Hold Person. Possibly alongside adding something that requires another roll or they fall over to it somehow?

Ninja_Prawn
2015-10-30, 07:17 PM
I'm worried adding a save ends early element to Dizziness would make it objectively worse than Hold Person. Possibly alongside adding something that requires another roll or they fall over to it somehow?

Falling-down dizziness is too funny not to do. And don't worry about being objectively worse than Hold Person. 90% of everything is worse than Hold Person.

To be brutally honest, it seems like it would be better suited to spell level 1 rather than 3. Maybe a more powerful magekiller (possibly with a name like Miscast Magic) would be a better option for level 3?

Princess
2015-10-30, 08:24 PM
Then I propose splitting it into two different ideas:

Dizziness - 1st Level Enchantment - Bard, Wizard

Casting Time - 1 action
Range - 60 ft.
Component - V, S
Duration - 1 minute, concentration

A single target within range must make a Wisdom saving throw or be affected as follows: Each turn, the creature may only take a single action or move, not both, and after any movement they must make a Dexterity save or fall prone. They may attempt a new Wisdom save at the end of each turn to end the effect.

Mindbending - 3rd Level Enchantment - Sorcerer, Wizard

Casting Time - 1 action
Range - 60 ft.
Component - V, S, M (A spoon)
Duration - 1 minute, concentration

A single target within range must make a Wisdom saving throw or be affected. Any affected creature attempting to cast a spell must make a concentration check against your spell save DC, or the spell automatically fails and any slot used is lost.


Thoughts?

Flashy
2015-10-30, 10:19 PM
Adding concentration to Elation is an easy enough addition, but I feel like concentration is easy to overuse, and the question to ask would be, is there a reason to make this mutually exclusive to another concentration based spell? Bless would be a good example of a possible issue.

It's more that buff stacking in general starts to get over the top very quickly, particularly in a group context. I am open to correction (Afb) but I'm not currently aware of ANY no concentration group buffs in 5e. With elation in play a cleric could cast both elation and bless on a group who would all still be able to buff themselves. A paladin or valor bard with elation, bless, and elemental weapon, for example.

Princess
2015-10-30, 11:35 PM
It's more that buff stacking in general starts to get over the top very quickly, particularly in a group context. I am open to correction (Afb) but I'm not currently aware of ANY no concentration group buffs in 5e. With elation in play a cleric could cast both elation and bless on a group who would all still be able to buff themselves. A paladin or valor bard with elation, bless, and elemental weapon, for example.

Aid is a party buff without concentration, but then again it straddles the line between buff and proactive healing. I see your point. But Elation and Haste were such a wonderful pair in 3.5. Alas.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-10-31, 04:25 AM
Then I propose splitting it into two different ideas:

Dizziness - 1st Level Enchantment - Bard, Wizard

Casting Time - 1 action
Range - 60 ft.
Component - V, S
Duration - 1 minute, concentration

A single target within range must make a Wisdom saving throw or be affected as follows: Each turn, the creature may only take a single action or move, not both, and after any movement they must make a Dexterity save or fall prone. They may attempt a new Wisdom save at the end of each turn to end the effect.

Mindbending - 3rd Level Enchantment - Sorcerer, Wizard

Casting Time - 1 action
Range - 60 ft.
Component - V, S, M (A spoon)
Duration - 1 minute, concentration

A single target within range must make a Wisdom saving throw or be affected. Any affected creature attempting to cast a spell must make a concentration check against your spell save DC, or the spell automatically fails and any slot used is lost.


Thoughts?

I like them! Mindbending feels very appropriate for an Arcane Trickster. "Try Casting spells now, loser! Ha-hah!"

Shall we sort out illusion and divination next?

Ninja_Prawn
2015-10-31, 10:59 AM
So, I'm helping write some spells for Korasyl's Sangromancer class, and one of them has ended up being a 5th-level necromancy spell, which is another thinly-served area. I'm open to criticism, but I'm mostly happy with the concept. The only issue is the damage. I put it at 8d8, the same as Blight, which is a level lower but doesn't have such a useful rider.

Exsanguinate
5th-level necromancy

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S, M (a sacrificial dagger)
Duration: Instantaneous

You drain vital fluids from a creature of your choice that you can see within range. The target must make a Constitution saving throw, taking 8d8 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. This spell has no effect on undead or constructs. A creature that fails its save against this spell gains one level of exhaustion, to a maximum of three.
At higher levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 6th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 5th.

JNAProductions
2015-10-31, 11:14 AM
Gains one level of exhaustion to a maximum of three. Otherwise, a couple castings of this could kill ANYTHING.

My 2 bits.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-10-31, 11:31 AM
Gains one level of exhaustion to a maximum of three. Otherwise, a couple castings of this could kill ANYTHING.

My 2 bits.

I will add this text, but I feel like 6 (assuming they fail 6 saves in a row) castings of a 5th-level spell should kill anything. Especially one that literally removes blood from their body!

JNAProductions
2015-10-31, 11:34 AM
*Shurg*

Max of three is a common thing (I think) so it's my advice. As I've said before, I'm not a spellcrafter, so take it as you will.

Princess
2015-10-31, 02:23 PM
I will add this text, but I feel like 6 (assuming they fail 6 saves in a row) castings of a 5th-level spell should kill anything. Especially one that literally removes blood from their body!

Given a 36 average damage on the failed save that gives the exhaustion, I'd say 6 castings (which should be about 216 damage) would probably kill the thing regardless of the exhaustion, but it would be a potentially useful loophole for killing certain higher end creatures. That said, getting a group of 6 9th level or higher Necromancers together to go Ancient Dragon hunting is a task in itself.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-10-31, 02:41 PM
Given a 36 average damage on the failed save that gives the exhaustion, I'd say 6 castings (which should be about 216 damage) would probably kill the thing regardless of the exhaustion, but it would be a potentially useful loophole for killing certain higher end creatures. That said, getting a group of 6 9th level or higher Necromancers together to go Ancient Dragon hunting is a task in itself.

Yeah, it's the tiniest of niches.

Anyway. What's next... high-level divination? I'm not an expert in previous editions, but I notice an 8th-level spell called Moment of Prescience... can we work with that? Maybe make a limited version of Foresight? Ooh, Brain Spider looks interesting. And is there room for something like Greater Prying Eyes?