SCAG cantrip review

[treecko]

So with the sword coast adventure guide out, we have 4 new cantrips for wizard, sorcerer, and warlock. This means they can be picked up by the arcane trickster, eldritch knight, the new arcane domain cleric, a high elf, and anyone with the magic initiate feat. The cantrips are for melee use.

First we have booming blade, where you make an attack and on a hit the target takes normal weapon damage and then 1d8 if the target willingly moves before your next turn. When the cantrip levels up, it gains a d8 on the initial hit, as well as an extra d8 on the movement. Classes that can use this well would be the blade singer, an arcane trickster, or a darkness using warlock. The best use of the spell, in my option, is to find an enemy who is not engaged with anyone, hit them with this, then run away, forcing them to take damage or be useless. A rogue's cunning action or the blade singer's high AC are useful for this. It also acts as a soft version of the sentinel feat, so a character that wants to be targeted (like a fiend pact warlock) can control the targets actions in a beneficial way.

The next cantrip is greenflame blade, which was already revealed. It's already been dicussed a lot, so I won't go into a lot of detail, but it's a good damage boost for characters that only get one attack like a cleric or a rogue.

Next we have lightning lure, which forces the target to make a strength save or be pulled toward the caster, then take 1d8 damage if they end up within 5 feet of the caster. I think this would be good on a character who wants to be fighting some big dangerous monster. It combos well with the sentinel feat to control a creature, so eldritch knight is a good option here. A warlock with spells like fire shield and armor of agathys can use this to force a fight with a creature. It's also good at moving a target, so stuff like wall of fire and spike growth can rack up some damage.

Lastly, we have sword burst, which is 1d6 damage to all creature around the caster, with a dex save. It's basically thunderburst, but with a dex save over con, force damage over thunder, and doesn't make a big noise. If stealth is a need, this is better, but in general thunderburst is better because the swarming monsters tend to have a better dex than con. It's a good spell in general for a melee character who lacks an AOE option, like a warlock, fighter, or rogue.

Also notable is the fact that lighting lure and sword burst require only a verbal componant so they can be cast with your hands tied. Lightning lure in particular would be useful in a prison break where you have no weapons.

[1Forge]

Those are very powerful cantrips I must say! My party would have gotten past some of my encounters much faster with those at their disposal!

[treecko]

They're balance around the idea that ranged is better than melee, so being in melee should do more damage. I think its a buff to melee rogues and warlocks, and goes well with bladesinger, and arcane cleric is the new default cleric for DPR. Sorcerers and normal wizards don't get much.

[Degwerks]

What do the Arcana Domain clerics get? Are they able to grab these new cantrips? Do they have any other perks to make better use of these new cantrips?

[treecko]

Not sure the specifics, but they can take wizard cantrips, and gain the potent spellcasting cleric ability. At later levels they can take wizard spells.

[Yorrin]

What do the Arcana Domain clerics get? Are they able to grab these new cantrips? Do they have any other perks to make better use of these new cantrips?

They get two Wizard cantrips, which count as Cleric cantrips for them. They also get potent spellcasting, which increases cleric cantrip damage by Wis mod. What amuses me is BB or GFB mixed with Shillelagh (picked up via Magic Initiate). Wis mod to hit, 4d8+(Wis*2) to primary target, 4d8+(Wis*2) secondary damage. Fun stuff.

[Finieous]

I need a ruling: Can you use Divine Strike with GFB and BB? I think probably. Divine Strike says "when you hit a creature with a weapon attack" and GFB says "make a melee attack with a weapon." Divine Strike doesn't require the Attack action.

[MeeposFire]

I need a ruling: Can you use Divine Strike with GFB and BB? I think probably. Divine Strike says "when you hit a creature with a weapon attack" and GFB says "make a melee attack with a weapon." Divine Strike doesn't require the Attack action.

Correct it is certainly a weapon attack even if it is initiated via cantrip. It is one way to improve cleric weapon damage.

[Santra]

What do the Arcana Domain clerics get? Are they able to grab these new cantrips? Do they have any other perks to make better use of these new cantrips?

Arcane Initiate gives them prof in Arcana and two wizard cantrips that count as cleric cantrips

Arcane Abjuration Channel Divinity which turns celestials, elementals, fey, or fiends (your choice when you use it) within 30'. At level 5 it banishes them for one minute if they are under a certain CR.

Spell Breaker lets you remove one magical effect when you heal a person with a spell of level 1 or higher

Potent spellcasting lets them add their wis mod to cantrip damage

Arcane mastery gives them 1 wizard spell each of 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level that count as domain spells and are always prepared.

[ghost_warlock]

Lightning Lure is nothing more than a lightning version of Thorn Whip that has a shorter range and allows a save to avoid the forced movement (and damage) rather than the player making an attack roll.

Color me unimpressed.

Edit: Even worse, Lightning Lure is a Strength save, so that "big, dangerous monster" is even more likely to succeed and you've wasted your action. And with Thorn Whip, the target doesn't have to end adjacent to you so if you're using the cantrip to draw a monster into dangerous terrain or zones, you don't have to be in or adjacent to the hazard yourself.

[treecko]

Lightning Lure is nothing more than a lightning version of Thorn Whip that has a shorter range and allows a save to avoid the forced movement (and damage) rather than the player making an attack roll.

I think they're not really comparable because they're on completely different spell lists. A player won't be making the choice between them, but will rather say "I want this effect", and take whichever one they get.

The range on thorn whip is better, true, but the damage and damage type of lightning lure is better. Lastly, lightning lure is better at hitting slippery monsters with high dex low strength that are weak up close.

I'll admit I think thorn whip is slightly better, but I'd rather be a bladelock or blade singer with lightning lure than a druid with thorn whip.

[Yorrin]

I think they're not really comparable because they're on completely different spell lists. A player won't be making the choice between them, but will rather say "I want this effect", and take whichever one they get.

The range on thorn whip is better, true, but the damage and damage type of lightning lure is better. Lastly, lightning lure is better at hitting slippery monsters with high dex low strength that are weak up close.

I'll admit I think thorn whip is slightly better, but I'd rather be a bladelock or blade singer with lightning lure than a druid with thorn whip.

Also: auto damage against adjacent targets. It's like a melee magic missile cantrip almost.

[ghost_warlock]

Also: auto damage against adjacent targets. It's like a melee magic missile cantrip almost.

It neither does auto damage, nor does it affect more than one target... :smallconfused:


I think they're not really comparable because they're on completely different spell lists. A player won't be making the choice between them, but will rather say "I want this effect", and take whichever one they get.

The range on thorn whip is better, true, but the damage and damage type of lightning lure is better. Lastly, lightning lure is better at hitting slippery monsters with high dex low strength that are weak up close.

I'll admit I think thorn whip is slightly better, but I'd rather be a bladelock or blade singer with lightning lure than a druid with thorn whip.

They are absolutely comparable because of Magic Initiate as well as Tome Pact as well as the bard's Magical Secrets ability and now the Arcana cleric domain. Being on different spell lists is practically meaningless for cantrips.

As for the damage type and amount, it might matter more often than force vs. thunder for Sword Burst vs. Thunderclap, but it's still not that big of a deal. Probably about one or two encounters per level.

The majority of the time, you'd be better off just using Shocking Grasp. The only time Lightning Lure would be even a noteworthy option would be when you're restrained or the opponent is just out of range. In which case, 3rd level and higher, you could potentially be using Misty Step to get within range.

[Yorrin]

It neither does auto damage, nor does it affect more than one target... :smallconfused:

I didn't mean to imply multi-target, but my initial impression was auto-damage to a single target if it was already adjacent. But upon further reading you're right, it's not even that. Which makes it a much worse spell. Probably the worst of the new spells.

[MeeposFire]

I didn't mean to imply multi-target, but my initial impression was auto-damage to a single target if it was already adjacent. But upon further reading you're right, it's not even that. Which makes it a much worse spell. Probably the worst of the new spells.

Lol that was true in 4e with that spell too.

[Dazen]

So what I did was give my warlock pole arm master..tome of the book at 3rd I added shillelagh...have hex running and then lightning lure enemies in.....at 5th level...I lure in..do 2d8 +1d6 damage from the spell....then they trigger the reach from pole arm and I smack with the powered up staff.....1d8+4 +1d6 hex and 1d4+4 +1d6 hex. Lure is triggered off of a failed strength. When you cast hex for the extra damage you also designate the disadvantage on the ability check for your opponent as strength.

[ad_hoc]

So what I did was give my warlock pole arm master..tome of the book at 3rd I added shillelagh...have hex running and then lightning lure enemies in.....at 5th level...I lure in..do 2d8 +1d6 damage from the spell....then they trigger the reach from pole arm and I smack with the powered up staff.....1d8+4 +1d6 hex and 1d4+4 +1d6 hex. Lure is triggered off of a failed strength. When you cast hex for the extra damage you also designate the disadvantage on the ability check for your opponent as strength.

Forced movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks.

Lightning Lure is a strength saving throw not an ability check so Hex doesn't help.

[Maxilian]

I have 1 questions:


1- What's Booming Blade Mod? whatever the weapon use? (If i use Shillelagh and this, would it use WIS?)

[MeeposFire]

I have 1 questions:


1- What's Booming Blade Mod? whatever the weapon use? (If i use Shillelagh and this, would it use WIS?)

I don't think booming blade uses a casting stat at all (unlike green flame blade). However if it does then it would be based on what class list you use it from. Wizard would be int, warlock and bard would be cha etc.

Even if you use it with shillelagh with wisdom it would still use whatever casting stat it normally uses.

If you are talking about the weapon attack roll itself then it uses str (with most weapons), dex if finesse, or wisdom if you use shillelagh with a stat.

[Coyote81]

Boom blade damage actually just say 1d8 and 1d8 if they move, you get no casting stat bonus damage. Which makes it actually rather good for Gish classes that don't take really high levels in any casting stats.