can anyone post about battlerager

[zylodrizzt]

Or other archetypes or describe anything crunch wise? Trying to determine if I want to buy sword coast adventure guide.

[DanyBallon]

As if you should buy the book or not, I'd say it depends if you are looking for a book full of crunch (and to an extension; power creep) as the 3.5 "Complete ..." books were, if you are looking for a full campaign setting book, or something in the middle, with decent information on the setting, and new crunch that is tied to the setting without being always optimized. The later is what you get with SCAG. Some don't like that Battlerager are Dwarf only, Bladesigner, Elf only, or Purple Dragon Knight, from Cormyr only, but these make sense if you consider that this is a setting book.

And as far as Battlerager goes, you get the following:

-Dwarf only
-3rd: Proficiency with Spiked Armor (Medium armor, AC: 14 +dex [max +2], disadvantage on stealth)
While wearing spiked armor and raging, bonus action to make a melee attack with spiked armor within 5ft (1d4 dmg, and str mod to hit and dmg)
-6th: while using the Reckless Attack while raging, temp hp = con mod. They vanish as soon as the rage ends.
-10th: can take Dash action as bonus action while raging
-14th: while raging, wearing spiked armor and not incapacitated, attacker suffer 3 piercing damage on melee attack from 5ft of you.

[Eragon123]

-6th: while raging, temp hp = con mod


Per time you use reckless attack. They vanish after rage ends.

[DanyBallon]

Per time you use reckless attack. They vanish after rage ends.

Thanks, I fixed it :)

[silveralen]

The subclasses are very light mechanically, making the book a rather hard sell if you you don't care about the setting. As a setting book it seems fairly reasonable, it's hard to really judge that sort of thing.

[MeeposFire]

As if you should buy the book or not, I'd say it depends if you are looking for a book full of crunch (and to an extension; power creep) as the 3.5 "Complete ..." books were, if you are looking for a full campaign setting book, or something in the middle, with decent information on the setting, and new crunch that is tied to the setting without being always optimized. The later is what you get with SCAG. Some don't like that Battlerager are Dwarf only, Bladesigner, Elf only, or Purple Dragon Knight, from Cormyr only, but these make sense if you consider that this is a setting book.

And as far as Battlerager goes, you get the following:

-Dwarf only
-3rd: Proficiency with Spiked Armor (Medium armor, AC: 14 +dex [max +2], disadvantage on stealth)
While wearing spiked armor and raging, bonus action to make a melee attack with spiked armor within 5ft (1d4 dmg, and str mod to hit and dmg)
-6th: while using the Reckless Attack while raging, temp hp = con mod. They vanish as soon as the rage ends.
-10th: can take Dash action as bonus action while raging
-14th: while raging, wearing spiked armor and not incapacitated, attacker suffer 3 piercing damage on melee attack from 5ft of you.

I actually have no problem with racial restrictions but I do like it when the book says that the restriction is based on the setting and if you use this sub class in other settings other races may be appropriate.

[Eragon123]

Thanks, I fixed it :)

No problem. What I find cool is that it seems to stack. Meaning that if always reckless attack that's 5 hp/round. Now that will probably go away quickly but is your friends are helping you out and giving the enemiess disadvantage? That can stack quickly.

[Ardantis]

Seems weak.

At least, weaker than the Rogue options in the same book.

Edit: Well, I guess the level 3 is the best part of Polearm Master, so that's pretty good, and without the penalty of Exhaustion.

Ok, so not bad. More offensively focused than totem.

[DanyBallon]

I actually have no problem with racial restrictions but I do like it when the book says that the restriction is based on the setting and if you use this sub class in other settings other races may be appropriate.

Actually, that's what the book says.

Battlerager restriction:
"Only dwarves can follow the Path of the Battlerager. The battlerager fills a particular niche in dwarven society and culture.
Your DM can lift this restriction to better suit the campaign. The restriction exist for the Forgotten Realms. It might not apply to your DM's setting or your DM's version of the Realms"

Purple Dragon Knight restriction:
"Purple Dragon Knight are tied to a specific order of Cormyrean knighthood.
Banneret serves as the generic name for this archetype if you use it in other campaign settings or to model warlords other than the Purple Dragon Knight"

Bladesigner restriction:
"Only elves and half-elves can choose the bladesinger arcane tradition. In the world of Fearun, elves closely guards the secret of bladesingsing.
Your DM can lift this restriction to better suit the campaign. This restriction reflects the story of bladesingers in the Forgotten Realms, bit it may not apply to your DM's setting or DM's version of the Realms."

[MeeposFire]

Actually, that's what the book says.

Battlerager restriction:
"Only dwarves can follow the Path of the Battlerager. The battlerager fills a particular niche in dwarven society and culture.
Your DM can lift this restriction to better suit the campaign. The restriction exist for the Forgotten Realms. It might not apply to your DM's setting or your DM's version of the Realms"

Purple Dragon Knight restriction:
"Purple Dragon Knight are tied to a specific order of Cormyrean knighthood.
Banneret serves as the generic name for this archetype if you use it in other campaign settings or to model warlords other than the Purple Dragon Knight"

Bladesigner restriction:
"Only elves and half-elves can choose the bladesinger arcane tradition. In the world of Fearun, elves closely guards the secret of bladesingsing.
Your DM can lift this restriction to better suit the campaign. This restriction reflects the story of bladesingers in the Forgotten Realms, bit it may not apply to your DM's setting or DM's version of the Realms."

Excellent that is my favorite way to do it. Tell people what it is like in the setting but also let you know that it is ok to have it be given to other races in other contexts.

[Hawkstar]

Seems weak.

At least, weaker than the Rogue options in the same book.

Edit: Well, I guess the level 3 is the best part of Polearm Master, so that's pretty good, and without the penalty of Exhaustion.

Ok, so not bad. More offensively focused than totem.
It lets you be a little spiked ball of fury! I love it! Wish the armor was better, though. They should have made it a heavy armor that doesn't shut down the Barbarian's class features.

[GlenSmash!]

I'm away from my copy right now, but I believe the level 3 ability also includes 3 piercing damage on successful grapples made by the battlerager.

[TheRedTemplar]

I'm away from my copy right now, but I believe the level 3 ability also includes 3 piercing damage on successful grapples made by the battlerager.

This would be correct. Combined with advantage on strength checks, and I think it'd be a pretty interesting way to make a grappler. I'm gonna try and make a build for it.

[Foxhound438]

Or other archetypes or describe anything crunch wise?

a bit of a tall order at 1am, but i'm up for it.

-battlerager: deals a bit of extra damage right off by giving you a d4+str bonus action attack, and damage on grapples (good for grapplers, then). Weaker than frenzy but if you want more than one fight per long rest of bonus action damage, this is pretty good. Later you get THP per turn (par with a second level spell, heroism, always on). Not as good as bear 3 for burst, but perhaps better against continual damage. Dash for bonus action at L10 is more or less a dump feature, but can see usage. Certainly more combat effective than spirit walker or intimidating presence. Final feature is kind of weak, but it's free damage, so can't complain too much. Any time you get hit while raging you deal a flat 3 back automatically, no action no roll. it would be nice if it were more comparable to retaliation, but that requires a reaction whereas this feature doesn't.

Verdict: kind of a weaker berserker for the main feature, but not getting exhaustion is a fine trade, especially if you find yourself in many separate combats in a day.

-Totem spirits: not a whole lot for 3 and 6, elk gives 15 feet of speed at 3rd (probably worse than eagle 3rd) while tiger... adds to your jump distance *crickets chirp*. 6th level options are noncombat stuff as usual, tiger being particularly interesting in that it gives you skill proficiencies. both 14th level options are bonus action attacks (kind of, but not really for elk). Best thing about these is you can still have bear 3rd level and chose one of these later.

verdict: more options tacked on to an existing subclass. Totem is now purely better than before, and the individual options provided are pretty good anyways.

-Arcana domain: get 2 wiz cantrips, so it's a lot of options at 1st level, which is good. Domain spells aren't great, but give you a lot of utility. Channel is basically a celest/fey/fiend/elem version of the basic cleric channel. 6th level lets your healing words also be dispel magic's, so that's pretty good. Potent casting at 8, particularly abusable with the melee cantrips found in the same book. Spell mastery gives 4 wizard spells, which is nice, but it ends up burning the same resource as your base cleric features. Options rather than standalone effect for your cap i guess.

Verdict: on par with nature cleric, but wiz instead of druid theme. Okay at worst, being on the cleric chassis is the best part of it.

Purple knight: literally all of your new stuff here is "that one fighter thing now helps your allies in a similar yet slightly lesser way". Not bad, certainly, but it's for a certain style of play i guess.

Verdict: as good as champion; not a lot of mechanical intrigue, but not bad.

Long Death monk: very tanking focused. 3rd level is basically dark one's bless on wisdom (thp on kills), 6th level is a fear effect that half of everyone on this forum pounds it to; good but not that good, basically. 11th is broken as ****, for 1 ki and no action you retroactively "death ward" yourself, so your tanking power goes through the roof. 17th feature is straight up worse quivering palm, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Verdict: good, though best to break off of monk before 17th unless you really want empty body.

Sun monk: git ranged, yo. Also, "THIS ISNT EVEN MY FINAL FORM!!!". 3rd level you get a laser beam, monk die + dex mod radiant damage out to 30 feet. Best part, it uses the attack action, so extra attack applies to it. Additionally, you can "flurry of lasers" it, however martial arts doesn't apply, so to get bonus attacks you have to spend ki. You thus get the same damage as you would in close, radiant type, but lacking options like stunning blow for the hits. 6th is eh, burning hands. The real benefit is that it's a bonus action to cast after your attack, so you still have good dpr when using it, though it's costly on ki for what you get. 11th level is KAMEHAMEHA, so that makes this literally the only correct option for monks. Basically fireball sized area takes 2d6 radiant on a failed con save; you can spend up to 3 ki to boost by 2d6/ki, so top end is exactly 3rd level fireball, except with no damage on a successful save. Good still, but sometimes will end up useless. 17th isn't great; you emit light, and as a reaction you can auto-hit something that just hit your in your light for 10 (wis mod+5). On par with shadow monk, probably less likely to trigger but no chance of missing.

Verdict: you're basically goku. Funny to MC barbarian and re-flavor rage as going super sayan. By power level, it's unfortunately under 9000, but it's still good. Like 8992. On par with most monk traditions, but lacking quivering palm means you unfortunately can't be one-punch man.

-Oath of the Crown: to tell you ahead of time, bad. Early it's good for the channel option, which basically amounts to mass healing word-lite, but that has poor scaling, thus making it only good for a short time. The other channel is kind of a "mass compelled duel", which is better later on honestly. The spell list here is absolute garbage, giving you all the paladin spells you would have otherwise ignored entirely. 7th level lets you eat damage for something next to you, so you're a great caster wall, but otherwise this feature is not good. 15th you get advantage on some specific saves, but honestly it pales in comparison to ancients' free death ward every day. capstone is by far the worst a paladin can get, giving you resistance to nonmagic weapon damage (at L20 you'll see none of those ever again), advangage on wis saves (fine; extends to allies in your auras), and your allies in your auras get advantage on death saves (generally you would pick them up lol)

Verdict: bad. flavorful, but bad.

-Mastermind: 3rd level you get a) a flavor ribbon, b) 2 kit proficiencies, and c) cunning action: help. 9th level is akin to battlemaster 7. 13th lets you force creatures that are acting as cover for you to take an attack aimed at you as your reaction. 17th is thought shielding, so largely a flavor ribbon.

Verdict: help as a bonus action is awesome but otherwise this subclass is a bit lackluster. Flavorful, but lackluster.

-Swashbuckler: at 3rd, you get a) the good half of "mobile", b) Cha mod to initiative, and c) easier sneak attack (more below). At 9th you can use an action to more or less "compelled duel" a creature for 1 minute, no resources required. At 13th you get cunning action: advantage on an athletics or acrobatics check. Not great, but it's something. At 17th you get a slightly worse "stroke of luck" (only affects attack rolls; instead of chosing to hit, you roll again with advantage; same 1/short rest usage), but 2 of a good thing isn't bad.

To clarify on that easier sneak attack, if you're either alone in melee or at range, you get your sneak attack even without advantage. If a creature other than your attack's target is within 5 feet of you, you don't.

Verdict: probably the best rogue archetype for close combat, though rogues usually find their niche out of combat.

-Storm sorc: right off you get a flavor ribbon and an escape feature; when you cast a 1+ level spell, you can fly up to 10 feet w/o provoking opportunity attacks. 6th you get another ribbon and on every 1+ level spell you cast you get 1/2 your level in lightning or thunder damage to each creature you chose within 10 feet of you (on top of the above). At 14th you get a retaliation type ability, except it's straight lightning damage = sorc level, auto hit. The creature can also be pushed back if they fail a str save. 18th you get flying speed that you can extend to your entire party.

Verdict: overall the best for dpr in my opinion, although it lacks cha to damage that dragon sorcs get. Probably a lot more versatility though.

-Undying patron: 1st level you get sanctuary vs. undead, as well as the cantrip spare the dying. 6th level you can regain 1d8+con mod when you succeed a death save, once per long rest (also regains you consciousness), and if you spare dying another creature you can gain the hp, but it's both the same ability, so if you use it when stabilizing someone else you won't be able to spring back to life when you go down. 10th level you get a flavor ribbon. sad face, other patrons give you pure value on every feature. 14th you get *drumroll*... second wind. except worse, because it's a d8. and it comes so late it's almost irrelevant.

Verdict: it tries to be the tanky patron but still falls miles behind fiend mechanically. Sure, not dying once per long rest is good, but so is having a consistent source of THP that keeps you from going down in the first place. This patron gets 1 dead rat out of 17 candles.

-Bladesinging: the arcane tradition that feels nothing like an arcane tradition. It's really just "pimp my gish" on a pure wizard chassis, but let's get into detail: bladesong is a rage-esque ability, in that it's a bonus action to activate and lasts a minute. You get 2 uses per short rest, and it gives you int to AC, +10 movement speed, advantage on acrobatics, and int to concentration saves. Already all good stuff. 6th level you get extra attack, so no need to multiclass for that essential gish feature. 10th level you can use a reaction and a spell slot to block damage, 5x the slot's level, from one attack. Good for keeping concentration, certainly. Finally, you get thirsting blade ah, int mod to weapon damage durring bladesong. Some other notable points, the bladesong feature says no shields and no making an attack with a weapon using both hands. So, no bows, no gswords, no plearms, but because of how it's worded you can 2wf.

Verdict: good. all of it is good. Generally not the role a wizard will take, but even if you're not going into melee the general benefits are still good for a cast+control type wiz, since 3 effects have the end result of "my concentration is even harder to disrupt", so it's in that sense kind of a better abjuration wizard. You still have wizard spells for utility, but losing out on some of the other cool arcane traditions is kind of un desirable.

[RickAllison]

17th feature is straight up worse quivering palm, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Wrong-O. Touch of the Long Death has different uses than Quivering Palm, but certainly isn't "straight up worse". Let's look at the two more closely:

Action Economy: Quivering Palm initiates off an unarmed strike, then takes an action to end. TotLD takes an action to activate. Basically equivalent since the unarmed strike requirement is easy to fulfill in battle and the problems with it will be addressed later.

Resource Economy: Quivering Palm takes 3 ki points for an instant kill or 10d10. TotLD has to spend 10 ki points to deal the same amount of damage on failure. Soundly in favor of QP.

Timing: QP takes two turns (barring Action Surge or Haste) to activate, while TotLD takes one action. Minor advantage to TotLD, but certainly not enough to bring it up to the victory in Resource Economy.

Utility: QP can be useful as an intimidation tool, or to keep an imprisoned enemy on a tight leash. It is limited by one very important thing: it has to be initiated by a definite act of aggression and violence, an unarmed strike. You can try and intimidate the merchant through the fact that you have his life in your hands, but there is a great chance that you were spotted because you openly attacked someone to use the maneuver. TotLD, by contrast, is initiated by a touch. Where QP has to obviously strike someone, TotLD can brush their hand in passing and kill them without engendering suspicion. Additionally, QP gives them at least six seconds to react, announce your presence to the crowd (even if invisible) and set the guards after you. TotLD gives no warning, no chance to raise the alarm. This is why you seem to be so harsh on TotLD; it is not some save-or-die combat maneuver, it is a versatile assassination tool.

In summary, Touch of the Long Death is not "straight up worse" than Quivering Palm. It is a delicate and resource intensive assassination tool whereas QP is a brute force, efficient combat weapon. Not all abilities are destined for use in combat, and TotLD succeeds in its particular focus better than arguably anything because it is nigh-untraceable, instant death.