Quick and dirty Healer buff. What tier would you classify this at?

[gadren]

If I gave the healer class all of the following, what tier would you put it at?

1. Gains Channel Energy as a pathfinder cleric of the healer's class level, but performs it as a swift action, and grants excess as THP to an already fully-healed target for 1 minute.
2. Spontaneous instead of prepared casting, knows all spells on Healer's spell list (similar to Beguiler or Warmage).
3. Gain Reach Spell as a bonus feat at level 3.
4. No increased casting time for metamagic feats for Healer spells, despite being spontaneous.
5. All healing spells cast by a healer double the dice used (this has no effect on diceless healing spells, such as Heal.)
6. Expand the spell list:

Adds all spells from the healing subschool to the Healer's spell list, at lowest available spell level. (For example, Heal is now a 5th level spell for the Healer.)
Adds all sanctified spells despite being a spontaneous caster.
Adds all spells from the Apostle of Peace's spell list to the Healer's spell list.
Add the following offensive spells to the Healer's spell list: 1st: Lantern Light, Whelm ; 2nd: Faerinaal's Hymn, Whelming Blast ; 3rd: Capricious Zephyr, Searing Light ; 4th: Light of Xymor, Mass Whelm ; 5h: Heaven's Trumpet, Overwhelm; 6th: Bolt of Glory; 7th: Righteous Burst ; 8th: Last Judgement ; 9th: Heavenly Host
Add all spells from one of the following domains of your choice to your class spell list: Arborea, Celestia, Celestial, Community, Courage, Exorcism, Family, Glory, Good, Joy, Knowledge, Liberation, Life, Mysticism, Protection, Repose, Sun

[ZamielVanWeber]

In order
1) Barely does anything.
2) Weakens the healer by lowering their spell access.
3) Seems random mechanically and not particularly strong.
4) Sensical, but random.
5) Here we go. Here is the good stuff. Healer' class features are underwhelming but not terrible. It is their spell list that really leaves them in the dust. Buffing their spells is always a good thing.

I would rate this Healer T3 entirely off of a broad defensive spell list. The offensive spells don't matter as much because you get few of them. I would also recommend you consider trading 3 and 4 for the ability to spontaneously cast sanctified spells (maybe starting at 10 or so).

[Ellowryn]

I think this would help, but at best it rises to low tier 3/top tier 4.

The problem is healing is really crappy in DnD, you run out of healing spells long before the BBEG stops being able to damage. What is really needed is a consistent way to reduce damage with some healing as a back up for what gets through. But such abilities are few and far between and usually don't scale well.

[gadren]

In order
1) Barely does anything.
2) Weakens the healer by lowering their spell access.
3) Seems random mechanically and not particularly strong.
4) Sensical, but random.
5) Here we go. Here is the good stuff. Healer' class features are underwhelming but not terrible. It is their spell list that really leaves them in the dust. Buffing their spells is always a good thing.

I would rate this Healer T3 entirely off of a broad defensive spell list. The offensive spells don't matter as much because you get few of them. I would also recommend you consider trading 3 and 4 for the ability to spontaneously cast sanctified spells (maybe starting at 10 or so).

I don't follow your logic on a couple of your points:

1) 1d6-10d6 healing as a swift action barely does anything?
2) How does it lower their spell access?

[eggynack]

2) How does it lower their spell access?
Healers, because they are prepared casters, have access to the sanctified spells list. This greatly increases the variety of the healer list, and pushes the class up to somewhere around high tier four or low tier three.

[gadren]

Healers, because they are prepared casters, have access to the sanctified spells list. This greatly increases the variety of the healer list, and pushes the class up to somewhere around high tier four or low tier three.

AWWWWWWwwwww. Got ya, makin' an edit then.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I don't follow your logic on a couple of your points:

1) 1d6-10d6 healing as a swift action barely does anything?
2) How does it lower their spell access?

1) Because even combined with healing spells monsters badly out damage it. I would suggest something like a small buff that is applied whenever a spell is applied, such as your choice of +1 to all saves, +1 AC, DR 1/-, or 2 Temp HP for rounds that scale against level (maybe 1/2 level). Then make the effect scale against level (increase each by one stage every other level). Rewarding proactively is good and the healer as a class is AR to reactice.

2) Was addressed.

[Abithrios]

With selective channeling, the first change is basically a big boost to the number of hit points per day they can heal.

The biggest objection to in combat healing is that it takes up too much time that could be better spent ending the fight. This uses swift actions, which often go wasted. It also runs on a separate pool of resources, so doesn't use spell slots. It can even be used before the damage even occurs. There is essentially no opportunity cost associated with this ability.

As for the amount, the goal of in combat healing is not to outpace enemy damage. The goal is to extend your team's durability to be greater than that of your enemies. This is a much lower standard. To put it another way, you don't have to end the fight with full health, as long as you end it with positive health.

This ability works particularly well if the party has some way to redistribute damage. I am not very familiar with such things in 3.5, but shield other springs to mind.

One concern I do have about it is that it adds another charisma based feature to a wisdom based caster. They already have another charisma based feature, so you might want to consider changing their casting stat to charisma along with making them spontaneous casters.

As you have it now, they are probably the best users of sanctified spells of any base class. This is probably a good thing. The fact that you added at least a few offensive spells means that they have something to do with their standard actions other than healing.

I would have to actually look at spells to be sure about tiers, but as written, this makes them genuinely competent at getting rid of hit point damage. Assuming that they have all the remove status effect spells on their list, this healer can really undo enemy actions.

[jenotus]

I think this would help, but at best it rises to low tier 3/top tier 4.

The problem is healing is really crappy in DnD, you run out of healing spells long before the BBEG stops being able to damage. What is really needed is a consistent way to reduce damage with some healing as a back up for what gets through. But such abilities are few and far between and usually don't scale well.


That is a good summary of the core problem for healing spells generally. However, I would differentiate a bit more:

Unoptimized Situation:
a) At the very beginning (LvL 1-3), they can come in handy and heal enough to justify their usage.

b) Specifically in the mid-tier levels 6-12 they usually are sub-par for the reasons layed out above.

c) From the point in time where "heal" as a spell is available, they it is a viable option again.


Now if you want to make the healer class better from the shelf, try using google, there is a very nice rework done already, which I highly recommend.

If you feel the need to use the existing material, I suggest to go with some of the already described options in the respective Healers Handbook.


As a build idea, you might also want to check out:
(CO-Diary)-Healer-Warmage-Mystic-Theurge-in-a-Tier3-optimized-campaign

With the simple ideas of the build, many of the typical shortcomings of the healer are being reduced (without expanding the spell-list).
It leads to the extend that healing (both resource-wise and from the amount healed) provided to be capable of standing toe-to-toe with even very difficult encounters (no argument is made that of course with the right battlefield control spells this could also be achieved).

Best regards,
Jenotus

[Honest Tiefling]

I think that the healers should get spontaneous access to SOME spells, like being able to sacrifice a prepared spell to cast Remove Curse. That way, they could prepare other stuff, but pull out the condition removers in a pinch.

Am I the only one that thinks adding more buff spells to the healer might be a good idea? Healing isn't always tactically advantageous, and buffing gives them a secondary role to fulfill and is quite useful. Since you mentioned pathfinder, maybe even poach from the Summoner spell list or make a thematically similar list with more of a focus on healing. I am also somewhat of the opinion that if someone didn't want to play a support role, they shouldn't pick a class named 'healer'.

[gadren]

Am I the only one that thinks adding more buff spells to the healer might be a good idea? Healing isn't always tactically advantageous, and buffing gives them a secondary role to fulfill and is quite useful. Since you mentioned pathfinder, maybe even poach from the Summoner spell list or make a thematically similar list with more of a focus on healing. I am also somewhat of the opinion that if someone didn't want to play a support role, they shouldn't pick a class named 'healer'.

That's why I added the Apostle of Peace's spell list to the Healer's. It adds quite a few buffs, as well as some debuffs and some utility spells.

[Honest Tiefling]

My apologies, not terribly familiar with that class.

Might I ask if you are trying to get this to appeal to particular people, such as your gaming group?

[gadren]

My apologies, not terribly familiar with that class.

Might I ask if you are trying to get this to appeal to particular people, such as your gaming group?

I was considering running a game with just tier 3 and 4 classes. With cleric and druid gone, I felt it'd be important to buff healer out of tier 5.

[Honest Tiefling]

I was considering running a game with just tier 3 and 4 classes. With cleric and druid gone, I felt it'd be important to buff healer out of tier 5.

Aha. Then, what appeals to your group, or are you hoping for a more universal approach to these changes?

And for the reach thing, healers can be squishy. Perhaps healing spells just get their ranged increased without metamagic? Also, I'd consider more choices for the Unicorn companion. This is a bit of personal taste, but I rarely use Unicorns at my table, and other people might want a different critter. The choice might be mostly cosmetic, but for some people, it can mean a lot. Heck, a flying critter like the pegasus is far stronger, but could also sway people.

Also, do you play with the Crusader? That might be able to take care of the healing role, and might appeal to your players more. In an odd way, if you allow the Dread Necromancer, you could just pick an undead race and have an undead themed campaign unless you already have ideas for your story that wouldn't work with that or any other way to heal from negative energy. Perhaps some bardic prestige class that focuses on healing as well.

[eggynack]

I was considering running a game with just tier 3 and 4 classes. With cleric and druid gone, I felt it'd be important to buff healer out of tier 5.
Notably, as I implied, none of this stuff is strictly necessary to reach that end state. With sanctified spells, particularly the ones from champions of valor in addition to the more standard ones from the book of exalted deeds, the healer becomes strong enough to be competitive in the sort of game you're running. What you're really doing here is buffing healers from low tier three to probably high tier three. Not a move you can't take, because that's still in your range, but not one you particularly need to take, or even necessarily want to take.

[gadren]

Honestly I don't even know if I'll run the campaign or if this is something anyone will want to play. It was mainly just a fun exercise for me.

If I do run it, it seems likely that one of them will want to play this class. They always seem to have it in their minds that someone needs to be the designated healer, even when there are better options. I figure this, with its swift action ranged healing option and some options for stuff to do besides only healing, was better than the class-as-written which has been rated at tier 5 on every rank list I've seen.

[eggynack]

The tier list accounts for only a certain amount of book range/optimization. As such, it completely ignores this resource, one that is somewhat obscure in both a book and gameplay sense, and in so doing gives the class a significantly lower rating than they would were this accounted for. As evidence, consider the why each class is in its tier entry for healers (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4869.0), which makes no mention of this high powered set of spells whatsoever. Because, honestly, it is very difficult to justify such a low ranking if you do account for this resource.