PDA

View Full Version : Rate this Magic Ring!



Baptor
2015-10-26, 08:28 PM
Ring of the Mystic Titan
(requires attunement by a bard, wizard, warlock, cleric, sorcerer or druid)

When you first become attuned to this ring, select a single spell of each level 1st-5th from any class. You can cast each of those spells once per day. Your spellcasting modifier for these spells is always the spellcasting modifier for your class (if you are multiclass, use your highest).

What rarity do you think this is?

McNinja
2015-10-26, 08:43 PM
It would vary based on the power of the spell level. spell level 1 or 2 would be uncommon, 3-5 rare, 7-8 very rare, 9 legendary.

Baptor
2015-10-26, 08:48 PM
It would vary based on the power of the spell level. spell level 1 or 2 would be uncommon, 3-5 rare, 7-8 very rare, 9 legendary.

So you're saying if all the spells in the ring were cast at the 5th level of power, the ring would be rare?

Kane0
2015-10-26, 08:49 PM
Very rare or legendary. You get your choice of 5 spells you can use once per day each, thats pretty huge.

Think Healing word, mirror image, dispel magic, dimension door and scrying once per day each. This is a slightly limited but broader bard secrets x5.

Bubzors
2015-10-26, 08:51 PM
I would say very rare or legendary. You are basically giving casters 5 more spell slots each day with spells they usually would not have access to. That's pretty damn powerful

Baptor
2015-10-26, 08:55 PM
I would say very rare or legendary. You are basically giving casters 5 more spell slots each day with spells they usually would not have access to. That's pretty damn powerful


I agree. I was thinking very rare or legendary too. I am leaning towards very rare because while this is really strong the Staff of the Magi seems way stronger. Staff of Power seems about equal when you include the Staff's passive bonuses in.

Strill
2015-10-26, 09:11 PM
I don't agree with legendary. This ring is beyond legendary. I'd rate this as an Artifact. Consider all the things it gives you:


A Familiar for EVERY MEMBER of your party via Find Familiar.
An intelligent mount for EVERY MEMBER of your party via Find Steed.
An effective +5 to spells known
An extra spell slot for spell levels 1-5
Unrestricted spell choice (i.e. Prayer of Healing, Revivify, and Raise Dead on a Wizard)
The ability to waive all gold costs from spells (spells cast through magic items do not require material components)


Hell, the ability to waive gold costs alone is game-breaking. Just toss out a Legend Lore spell every single day on anything you can think of until it's impossible for the DM to have anything to surprise you with. Cast Planar Binding every day for free and have some crazy-powerful demon always at your beck and call.

It's just way too powerful.

Kane0
2015-10-26, 09:19 PM
I don't agree with legendary. This ring is beyond legendary. I'd rate this as an Artifact. Consider all the things it gives you:


A Familiar for EVERY MEMBER of your party via Find Familiar.
An intelligent mount for EVERY MEMBER of your party via Find Steed.
An effective +5 to spells known
An extra spell slot for spell levels 1-5
Unrestricted spell choice (i.e. Prayer of Healing, Revivify, and Raise Dead on a Wizard)
The ability to waive all gold costs from spells (spells cast through magic items do not require material components)


Hell, the ability to waive gold costs alone is game-breaking. Just toss out a Legend Lore spell every single day on anything you can think of until it's impossible for the DM to have anything to surprise you with. Cast Planar Binding every day for free and have some crazy-powerful demon always at your beck and call.

It's just way too powerful.

I believe the regular restrictions for casting would still apply.

My vote for very rare, possibly legendary if the user chooses the most optimal spells possible.

Strill
2015-10-26, 09:21 PM
I believe the regular restrictions for casting would still apply.

DMG page 141 says otherwise.

Kane0
2015-10-26, 09:28 PM
DMG page 141 says otherwise.

Indeed, no component costs when used this way.

The Find Familiar and Mount use seems a little more dubious though. It would be easy to say that when you cease to be attuned to the item any ongoing spells/effects it generated cease also.

Baptor
2015-10-26, 09:33 PM
DMG page 141 says otherwise.

The way I am writing the ring, it gives you the ability to cast these spells. The ring doesn't cast the spells. Hence, you must pay any applicable components and the spells would work just as if you were casting them from personal spell slots.

I'm not creating this in a vacuum here. The purpose of the ring is to give the party's caster some extra flexibility. OK a lot of extra flexibility. But the point isn't to allow the character to break all the RAI and give everyone familiars or have infinite raise dead spells without cost.

This in mind, we all still on the very rare - legendary fence?

Mara
2015-10-26, 09:38 PM
Ring of the Mystic Titan
(requires attunement by a bard, wizard, warlock, cleric, sorcerer or druid)

When you first become attuned to this ring, select a single spell of each level 1st-5th from any class. You can cast each of those spells once per day. Your spellcasting modifier for these spells is always the spellcasting modifier for your class (if you are multiclass, use your highest).

What rarity do you think this is?Legendary.

5 cherry picked spells from any list.

Kane0
2015-10-26, 09:43 PM
The way I am writing the ring, it gives you the ability to cast these spells. The ring doesn't cast the spells. Hence, you must pay any applicable components and the spells would work just as if you were casting them from personal spell slots.

I'm not creating this in a vacuum here. The purpose of the ring is to give the party's caster some extra flexibility. OK a lot of extra flexibility. But the point isn't to allow the character to break all the RAI and give everyone familiars or have infinite raise dead spells without cost.

This in mind, we all still on the very rare - legendary fence?

But they don't actually use your spell slots, each spell is once per day correct?

Very rare, comparable to staff of power and rod of absorption.

Baptor
2015-10-26, 10:08 PM
But they don't actually use your spell slots, each spell is once per day correct?

Very rare, comparable to staff of power and rod of absorption.

Correct. They are each 1/day only. I agree with you.

Cakesnizzles
2015-10-27, 04:28 PM
That's definitely legendary.

Edgerunner
2015-10-27, 05:10 PM
A Ring of Spell Storing gives you 5 lvls of spells that can be cast and it is a Rare Item. IE: 1lvl1 and 2lvl2 spells and these are spells you have to Know.

Getting a ring that store 5 spells of 1-5 lvl that you can cherry pick from Any list is heckofa lot more powerful. Legendary if not an artifact.

Yagyujubei
2015-10-27, 05:37 PM
dont even have to think for a second. legendary. that is significantly stronger than ring of spell storing

krugaan
2015-10-27, 07:50 PM
Ring of Instant Dungeon Competency
You may cast the following spells once per long rest:

Feather Fall
Fly
Freedom of Movement
Dimension Door
Truesight

McNinja
2015-10-27, 08:39 PM
So you're saying if all the spells in the ring were cast at the 5th level of power, the ring would be rare?
I missed the part where there was more than one spell being cast by the ring. Since you're casting multiple spells from it, I would say very rare, and if they're ALL being cast at 5th level, legendary.

Malifice
2015-10-28, 12:02 AM
Ring of the Mystic Titan
(requires attunement by a bard, wizard, warlock, cleric, sorcerer or druid)

When you first become attuned to this ring, select a single spell of each level 1st-5th from any class. You can cast each of those spells once per day. Your spellcasting modifier for these spells is always the spellcasting modifier for your class (if you are multiclass, use your highest).

What rarity do you think this is?

I lean towards legendary. I woul also change the text to:

When you first become attuned to this ring, select a single spell of each level 1st-5th from any one class. You can cast each of those spells once per day at their normal level, as long as you are normally capable of casting a spell of that level. Your spellcasting modifier for these spells is always the spellcasting modifier for your class (if you are multiclass, use your highest).

Kane0
2015-10-28, 12:24 AM
I lean towards legendary. I woul also change the text to:

When you first become attuned to this ring, select a single spell of each level 1st-5th from any one class. You can cast each of those spells once per day at their normal level, as long as you are normally capable of casting a spell of that level. Your spellcasting modifier for these spells is always the spellcasting modifier for your class (if you are multiclass, use your highest).

An excellent suggestion.

Baptor
2015-10-28, 10:47 AM
dont even have to think for a second. legendary. that is significantly stronger than ring of spell storing

True, but with the ring of spell storing, anyone can use it. Only full spellcasters can use this one. I'm not saying its not legendary, but there is a significant difference there.

N810
2015-10-28, 12:36 PM
Perhaps limit it to one of the 5 spells per day ?
Perhaps that would drop it to rare...?

Baptor
2015-10-28, 01:52 PM
Perhaps limit it to one of the 5 spells per day ?
Perhaps that would drop it to rare...?

Sure, I could see that as rare. I'm not concerned about making it conform to a certain rarity, but just trying to figure out what rarity it is as written.

The DMG says when making new items to use other items already in the DMG as a basis of comparison. For me, it all comes down to this.

If I were playing a wizard and you offered me this ring or a staff of the magi, I am picking the staff hands down. That thing is a beast.

If I were playing a wizard and you offered me this ring or a staff of power, I would have to think about it.

So for me I think it should be very rare as written.

Strill
2015-10-28, 02:10 PM
But the point isn't to allow the character to break all the RAI and give everyone familiars or have infinite raise dead spells without cost.

So how are you going to prevent the ring from giving everyone familiars and mounts?

N810
2015-10-28, 02:16 PM
I suppose you could have a few spells banned from the item. :smallconfused:

KorvinStarmast
2015-10-28, 02:18 PM
Ring of the Mystic Titan
(requires attunement by a bard, wizard, warlock, cleric, sorcerer or druid)

When you first become attuned to this ring, select a single spell of each level 1st-5th from any class. You can cast each of those spells once per day. Your spellcasting modifier for these spells is always the spellcasting modifier for your class (if you are multiclass, use your highest).

What rarity do you think this is?
Legendary or Artificat, per Mara's post, and I'll further comment that this is the kind of bloat the game doesn't need ... unless it, like any decent artifact, has some side effects that hurt whomever uses it or significantly inconveniences them.

"With great powers come great side effects."

No free lunch, bounded accuracy, etc.

Kane0
2015-10-28, 05:34 PM
Have it be sentient and able to change what spells it thinks you should have, as well as be able to choose to cast them itself. Then you get to have interesting arguments about spell selection while staring at your hand.

Baptor
2015-10-28, 07:39 PM
So how are you going to prevent the ring from giving everyone familiars and mounts?

Maybe I'm just really unfamiliar with the find familiar spell. My question is, how could you use this to give everyone familiars? Does the regular spell allow you to just give someone a familiar? I really don't understand the abuse you speak of. Just shouting, "everyone gets familiars omgz" doesn't explain how the item could be abused to bring about that effect.


Legendary or Artificat, per Mara's post, and I'll further comment that this is the kind of bloat the game doesn't need ... unless it, like any decent artifact, has some side effects that hurt whomever uses it or significantly inconveniences them.

"With great powers come great side effects."

No free lunch, bounded accuracy, etc.

The kind of bloat the game doesn't need? How is this item "bloating" the game any worse than the Staff of the Magi? I brought up earlier that I'd pick the Staff of the Magi any day of the week before I'd pick this ring. How is this ring more powerful than 50 charges of level 7 spells plus a rod of absorption plus a wand of the war mage all rolled into one?

Strill
2015-10-28, 09:39 PM
Maybe I'm just really unfamiliar with the find familiar spell. My question is, how could you use this to give everyone familiars? Does the regular spell allow you to just give someone a familiar? I really don't understand the abuse you speak of. Just shouting, "everyone gets familiars omgz" doesn't explain how the item could be abused to bring about that effect.

So read the spell then!

Find Familiar is cast once, and gives you a familiar which lasts until it dies, at which point you have to cast the spell again to get it back. Find Steed works the same. You would pass the ring around to each member of the party, they'd all cast the two spells, and all get a familiar and a mount.

Baptor
2015-10-28, 09:49 PM
So read the spell then!

Find Familiar is cast once, and gives you a familiar which lasts until it dies, at which point you have to cast the spell again to get it back. Find Steed works the same. You would pass the ring around to each member of the party, they'd all cast the two spells, and all get a familiar and a mount.

Hehe, I figured you'd respond with that, and rightly so, because I could totally look it up. But seriously I said that to make a point. I am not going to read through every single spell in the game to ensure an item can't be abused. This isn't Magic the Gathering, and I don't play with people who assume it is (I like MTG, by the way.) Don't get me wrong, I'd like to read the Core books cover to cover, because I'm a huge nerd, but like most aging gamers I've got too much on my plate. My players are all in the same age group and they understand I don't have the time to playtest everything. If we run into an actual problem, I deal with it then.

That said, I now understand what you are talking about. First, my players wouldn't do that. If they did realize they could, they might joke about it, but they know that's not what I intended them to do with it. So I will never have to worry about that.

That said, some DMs might want to use this item, so let me suggest some fixes. First, you could alter the description so that anyone who unattunes from the ring also causes any spells cast by it to automatically end, dispelling summoned mounts and breaking familiar links. Second, you could make this into a non-physical item: a boon or tattoo, that cannot be passed around. Both are reasonable fixes IMO.

Doof
2015-10-28, 10:11 PM
At least Legendary for sure. You're basically giving out 5 free scrolls every day.

Restrict it to be based on charges, recharging a small amount each day- basically magical staff that takes up the ring slot.

Flashy
2015-10-28, 11:16 PM
I can't speak for anyone else but this item is difficult for me to rate simply because it's so far above the expected power level of the campaigns I've played in. By the standards of my regular groups this would be an artifact of world shattering power, so my instinct was that it should be classed as egendary. However, after looking at the actual items rated as legendary in the DMG (Rod of Lordly Might, Staff of the Magi, Greater Absorbtion Ioun Stone) it's probably closer to very rare. The upper end of very rare, but Staff of Fire and Staff of Ice are still pretty comparable.

If you had to choose all the spells from the same class I feel like it would be more firmly very rare, rather than sort of skirting the edges of legendary. What makes it really nuts is the ability to pick up things like Goodberry, Detect Thoughts, Counterspell, Greater Invisibility, and Greater Restoration in the same crazy support package. 1/day scrying without needing to buy a 1000 gp focus is also pretty impressive.

Baptor
2015-10-29, 09:40 AM
I can't speak for anyone else but this item is difficult for me to rate simply because it's so far above the expected power level of the campaigns I've played in. By the standards of my regular groups this would be an artifact of world shattering power, so my instinct was that it should be classed as egendary. However, after looking at the actual items rated as legendary in the DMG (Rod of Lordly Might, Staff of the Magi, Greater Absorbtion Ioun Stone) it's probably closer to very rare. The upper end of very rare, but Staff of Fire and Staff of Ice are still pretty comparable.

If you had to choose all the spells from the same class I feel like it would be more firmly very rare, rather than sort of skirting the edges of legendary. What makes it really nuts is the ability to pick up things like Goodberry, Detect Thoughts, Counterspell, Greater Invisibility, and Greater Restoration in the same crazy support package. 1/day scrying without needing to buy a 1000 gp focus is also pretty impressive.

Yeah, I've decided to restrict the spells chosen to the wizard spell list only (recipient is a Warlock so it will still be a great tool for him). I wanted to make him more versatile since he is the only spellcaster in the group of two, but I think this will suffice for what I intend.

This all said, I'm shocked at the number of people, yourself included, who say this item would be way outside the scope of items at your table. As you said, it IS comparable to items in the DMG. So do you guys not use the items in the DMG? Is that common?

If I have to make another thread to investigate this question I might, but if anyone reads this one, my new question is: do you use the DMG items/tables in your game? Do you see items like mine and those in the DMG as "bloat" that is ruining the game?

Fwiffo86
2015-10-29, 09:45 AM
It may have more to do with the fact that magic items just aren't needed anymore. That and the limit as to how many you can have attuned make for very specific choices.

Flashy
2015-10-29, 10:15 AM
This all said, I'm shocked at the number of people, yourself included, who say this item would be way outside the scope of items at your table. As you said, it IS comparable to items in the DMG. So do you guys not use the items in the DMG? Is that common?

I think it's more just that the scaling is shifted one over in the campaigns I play in. So rare -> very rare, very rare -> legendary, and legendary does not exist. As an example I play at a table where a key that opens any door as a portal to one specific room is one of the most powerful magic items that has ever existed. Like, almost beyond legendary for the purposes of that campaign world. That (8th level) character has three spell scrolls of third level or lower, and a staff which can store a single 1st level spell and which rolls an extra d8 if it rolls an 8 on a damage roll. With that loadout he's considered pretty well equipped, and those are far and away the most powerful magic items I've seen handed out in a 5e game.

In fairness we've found a few slightly more powerful items but they usually have more downsides than upsides. Still nothing that would rate above a rare in the DMG for sure.

saeval
2015-10-29, 10:30 AM
Yeah,

This all said, I'm shocked at the number of people, yourself included, who say this item would be way outside the scope of items at your table. As you said, it IS comparable to items in the DMG. So do you guys not use the items in the DMG? Is that common?

If I have to make another thread to investigate this question I might, but if anyone reads this one, my new question is: do you use the DMG items/tables in your game? Do you see items like mine and those in the DMG as "bloat" that is ruining the game?

with the rarity of magic items in 5e, what with +1 items being around a level ten distribution, and the amount of "spectacular" packaged into regular classes, I don't really feel the need for the "rare and above" items. I may be a special scenario though, in that I prefer low magic and am happy with where 5th edition rates its items. I do feel like things like staff of the magi etc. are there literally as relics of the past. I feel like the items are practically a tribute page, to what once was. if an item in my campaign is anywhere near that level of power, (and that does happen, albeit rarely) it is a core part of the story itself. Usually it is held by the bad guy, or is what the bad guy is after to complete a bad deed.

Limiting the ring to just wizard spells drastically puts it in a better light. without that restriction it is definitely an artifact. I'd go with very rare with it in place, but still think its a bit too far on the too versatile scale. I'd rather tell the guy to make a wizard, and give him a ring of eldritch blast, and fluff his pact.

Dalebert
2015-10-31, 07:54 PM
with the rarity of magic items in 5e, what with +1 items being around a level ten distribution

Wait, what? I've played in three 5e modules now--The Mines of Phandalin, Hoarde of the Dragon Queen, and Out of the Abyss, and they've all put out +1 items fairly steadily in the very early levels. That sounds like a very low magic campaign, which is fine, but you're describing it like it's standard and I don't think that is the case. My 3rd level monk has a +2 shortsword from a Wizards 5e module.

I agree though. This ring sounds legendary or an artifact. It's very, very nice. I would expect the other characters to feel overshadowed by an item that practically makes this character into a wizard without having to multiclass.

kaoskonfety
2015-11-13, 09:39 AM
Got here from reading the "What 5e did right" thread, cause I was wondering on the item you were talking about.

As other have highlighted: It's pretty dang good, VERY dynamic as written and basically turns the wearer into a 1/3 to a 1/2 caster able to cherry pick from all the caster lists, changeable on a short rest. I'd have to agree with the "top of Legendary - minor artefact" assessment due to the assorted and excellent 3rd-5th level options (Raise Dead, once a day, everyday, alone, is in the Very rare + range)

When making something like this you do need to check what the options will be, in full, and consider possible ramifications. Because most players WILL. And you will need to be ready for the delicious cheese.

Its not the raw power of any given set of spells that drive the perceived value/rarity up - its the impressive number of options and combinations it opens up.

If you gave it 5 random spells (when found), or 5 specific spells (a list), or 5 (class and school) spells or any type of reigns on its dynamic ability it would float from "Rare" to "Legendary" variant on the spells in question, combat potential etc. Perhaps arrange a set of rings, each with a themed spell list and I'm realizing I'm building the Mandarin all of a sudden...
I want my Fighter to have one with just the paladin smites and say Flamestrike in it - cause YA!

But ya, as it stands? This thing will be quite impressive in most any game regardless of magic level and a plot touchstone in many.

jqavins
2015-11-13, 12:53 PM
I'm a 3.5 player and don't know 5e, and I'm not taking the time (at work, on lunch) to look up the rarity levels that are being discussed. It sounds like they're a set of rarity adjectives being used to describe power, which isn't really the same thing. I mean, what about the simple +1 longsword which is transparent and glowey and makes a "vvvv, vvv" sound when swung. It's unique because only one person ever made one, and legendary because it was really cool and legends grew around it (there are myths about it slicing effortlessly trough virtually any material and virtually never missing its targets, even though the latter is mostly because it's original owner was that good) but it's still just a +1 sword. But I digress.

I'm thinking of this from a low level character's point of view.

As originally written, I would rate that as "Holy Freakin' Crap!!!"
With the level restriction which you said seems like a good idea (one is only granted extra spell slots at the levels one has access to based on class level) I would rate it as "God damn! that's powerful."
With the restriction of wizard spells only, "God damn! that's powerful."
With both restrictions, "Wow, extra slots. Great!" (Not sarcastic.)


So, of course, the question is: what are you going for? You mentioned it's for one member of a party of two, right? You'd probably want to give the other member something similarly awesome and tailored to him/her. Then it will likely make the game more fun, assuming the challenges the pair face are suitable, in which case the item's level will best be described as "perfect."