(First time 5th Ed) character ideas and viability

[SylvanPrincess]

Hey there all! I've been playing dnd a long time but haven't played 5th ed yet. We will be starting a game soon and I am excited! Dm says we don't roll numbers for characters until after we've settled on what we want to be. Welll....Ok then! I've been thinking about things and reading guides and I have a few ides now but want to bounce them off somebodies.

Let me preface by saying I'm not much of a min/maxer. I like to be effective, but different. I like coming up with unique ideas and seeing what they could be. We don't even have books yet...but I've settled on two ideas to start. I'll throw in other thoughts as they come.

Favored Soul (Death Domain) level 14/Shadow Monk level 6. Thought is to have decent spell casting, flight and shadow jump and be a gishy thing.

Forest Gnome Druid/barb/ranger to have wildshape (wolverine), companion/mount: wolverine, and rage

I've always wanted to do princess mononoke too, any thoughts?

[Mara]

I would do princess mononoke as a hunter ranger that uses handle animal to get a dire wolf mount.

Handle animal is a wis skill this edition.

[Yorrin]

It's widely accepted that Beastmaster is broken, in a bad way. I'd steer you away from that one.

Your other build sounds viable, though. Not optimal, by any stretch of the imagination, but certainly viable. Not sure why you wouldn't go with Death Domain Cleric instead, for the Wis synergy.

[Mrglee]

Only thing to be concerned about would be stats in the former(you want good dex, wis, cha, and everyone wants good con). The latter works too, Barb and Druid are both super strong, though beastmaster is weak and has some antisyngery where beasts take your attack action. If you actually plan on getting to 20 it might be worth adjusting things(giving up 9th level spells is typically not worth giving up, and druids really like level 18 so they can cast while wildshaped), but a Druid 14/ Barbarian 3(for bear or wolf totem)/Ranger 3(for beast master) is an option if you really want the pet wolverine.
Be sure to clear up how Unarmored Defense works with wildshape, some people feel you just get the extra con ac to the beast's ac, some people think that natural armor nullifies the defense and thus you have to manuelly calculate the AC(or just use the beast's if it is higher).

[Mara]

Beast master's math is fine. The animal control rubs people the wrong way.

The control is better when riding the pet.

[Mrglee]

Beast master's math is fine. The animal control rubs people the wrong way.

The control is better when riding the pet.

It is pretty meh, though it does indeed get better when using it as a mount.
It still isn't exactly MCing friendly though, especially with a caster class that doesn't get extra attack as the main focus.

[Mara]

It is pretty meh, though it does indeed get better when using it as a mount.
It still isn't exactly MCing friendly though, especially with a caster class that doesn't get extra attack as the main focus.
Multiclassing is the only way you can really F up this edition. Even then. Getting a truely garbage character requires serious anti-optimization skill.

[Mrglee]

Multiclassing is the only way you can really F up this edition. Even then. Getting a truely garbage character requires serious anti-optimization skill.

I would argue Four Ways Monk is pretty unreasonably terrible. Granted, it can do stun bot stuff, but the rate it just burns through ki points to do anything is just so lackluster.

[Mara]

I would argue Four Ways Monk is pretty unreasonably terrible. Granted, it can do stun bot stuff, but the rate it just burns through ki points to do anything is just so lackluster.
Ele monk can do some crazy stuff. Grab utility powers and brace yourself for causing a near endless stream of DM rulings.

[E’Tallitnics]

Hey there all! I've been playing dnd a long time but haven't played 5th ed yet. We will be starting a game soon and I am excited! Dm says we don't roll numbers for characters until after we've settled on what we want to be. Welll....Ok then! I've been thinking about things and reading guides and I have a few ides now but want to bounce them off somebodies.

Let me preface by saying I'm not much of a min/maxer. I like to be effective, but different. I like coming up with unique ideas and seeing what they could be. We don't even have books yet...but I've settled on two ideas to start. I'll throw in other thoughts as they come.

Favored Soul (Death Domain) level 14/Shadow Monk level 6. Thought is to have decent spell casting, flight and shadow jump and be a gishy thing.

Forest Gnome Druid/barb/ranger to have wildshape (wolverine), companion/mount: wolverine, and rage

I've always wanted to do princess mononoke too, any thoughts?

You need to realize that the UA articles are BETA TESTING. I would not recommend using any of them because of that inherent unbalance, since your group is new to 5e.

[Eragon123]

Ele monk can do some crazy stuff. Grab utility powers and brace yourself for causing a near endless stream of DM rulings.

Which ones? Like
Shape the Flowing River
Clench of the North Wind
Ride the Wind
Mist Stance

Were those the ones you were thinking of or are there any other good ones?

[Mrglee]

You need to realize that the UA articles are BETA TESTING. I would not recommend using any of them because of that inherent unbalance, since your group is new to 5e.

Favored Soul is not beta testing, while most UA is beta testing, some of it is designers showing off homebrew stuff(the modern dnd setting that one guy did) and some is just trying to help out people. The Favored Soul is from the latter, showing people how one might make an archetype for their home games.
Still possibly unbalanced, but beta testing is different.

[E’Tallitnics]

Favored Soul is not beta testing, while most UA is beta testing, some of it is designers showing off homebrew stuff(the modern dnd setting that one guy did) and some is just trying to help out people. The Favored Soul is from the latter, showing people how one might make an archetype for their home games.
Still possibly unbalanced, but beta testing is different.

Then please help me: Where is "Favored Soul" listed in the PHB or SCAG?

[Mrglee]

Then please help me: Where is "Favored Soul" listed in the PHB or SCAG?

Won't be in either, and likely will never see printing. To quote the article it is so people can "Dive into customization with some advice on class design." (https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes)
This is different from beta testing, the article was on teaching how to homebrew.
Might still be unbalanced(though I feel it is fine), but it is not beta testing.

[E’Tallitnics]

Won't be in either, and likely will never see printing. To quote the article it is so people can "Dive into customization with some advice on class design." (https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes)
This is different from beta testing, the article was on teaching how to homebrew.
Might still be unbalanced(though I feel it is fine), but it is not beta testing.

That explains. Thanks!

[bid]

I've always wanted to do princess mononoke too, any thoughts?
San has no wildshape and does not use a bow but those 2 classes would fit.

Paladin 5 and lore bard 6 can grab find steed and allow you to ride a wolf.
Warlock with Moro as patron.
Rogue with survival mastery, maybe?

[Mara]

Which ones? Like
Shape the Flowing River
Clench of the North Wind
Ride the Wind
Mist Stance

Were those the ones you were thinking of or are there any other good ones?Wave of rolling earth is nice. Elemental Attunement can also be very useful.

[Eragon123]

Wave of rolling earth is nice. Elemental Attunement can also be very useful.

Elemental Attunement is free so I didn't include that in the list because its standard.

I can see wave of rolling earth being better than mist stance. Both are nice though.

[Mara]

Elemental Attunement is free so I didn't include that in the list because its standard.

I can see wave of rolling earth being better than mist stance. Both are nice though.
I would actually drop hold person.

[SylvanPrincess]

Just got home, whoa at the number of replies, let me do some reading

[Alikat]

How bout a wolf spirit totem barbarian? You can very easily take the handle animal skill.

[SylvanPrincess]

So I'd like to apologize for my long delay responding to everyone. Thanks for all the feedback, really appreciate it! I decided to wait until I'd rolled my numbers to really ask for advice. In the end I went with favored soul sorceress, with death domain. I wanted to make a caster that was a blend of Liliana (from magic the gathering) and Morgana from King Arthur lore, but as a character that wants to do good and be good-ish. I chose chaotic neutral through, a good starting place. I want to have been an urchin I think (though I need perception somehow...), who has someone close to her die unexpectedly. In my anguish I try to bring them back to life (very full Metal alchemist style I know lol). That would be why I gain the death domain, something thrust upon me as a curse even maybe.

My numbers are 17, 13, 12, 16, 12, 14. I chose half elf to get this array: str 12, dex 17, con 15, int 12, wis 13, cha 19. I went 12 int and 13 wis so I can multiclass into monk maybe. I like the idea of maaaaybe sorceress 16/shadow monk 6, and be gishy, or even adding 3 levs of rogue as well. I'm pretty bummed there isn't a way to gain a feat without sacrificing the ability score increases. I like the idea of having the ritual caster feat to expand my spell selection. I would love any and all thoughts to "optimize" this concept :) thanks again all!
Kate

[Finieous]

With those stats, and if you want a feat anyway, why aren't you going variant human? Str 12, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 18. Even stats are your friends. ;)

[deathbymanga]

Seeing a lot of people hating on Beastmaster. wow, ok, um, it's not that bad. In fact, I quite like the Beast Master. the problem with everyone is I think they were intending for a lot more, when I feel its pretty straight-foreward. The companion is meant to serve as your back-up. not the front-liner. Not to mention, even though your companion's survivability is very weak, you get a new one after a long rest each time, so there's that.

Not to mention, look at what your companions can do.

A Flying Snake has a fly speed of 60ft, a no-save 3d4 poison, and a decent perception roll. Pump your Proficiency Skills into Perception and Stealth, then carry them over onto your Snake, and you have a super tracker.

Or, get a Giant Crab as a companion, and grab Athletics as your skill. Your Crab will now be able to grapple anyone, keeping them immobilized and easier to hit.

Or say you're a Gnome or a Halfling, and you multiclass into Monk or Rogue for evasion, that evasion stacks onto your companion if you are mounted on them.

Also, here's a build suggestion. 3 level Archfey Chain Warlock + 5 level Beast Master Ranger, you can command your Beast and your Familiar. Two companions - 1 player

[SylvanPrincess]

With those stats, and if you want a feat anyway, why aren't you going variant human? Str 12, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 18. Even stats are your friends. ;)

Ha, hadn't even considered it because I leapt at having 19 cha haha... hmm. I suppose I'll have to look into that now, thanks for the suggestion

Deathbymanga: I like the build suggestion, nice

[bid]

My numbers are 17, 13, 12, 16, 12, 14. I chose half elf to get this array: str 12, dex 17, con 15, int 12, wis 13, cha 19.
Swap your odd bits to get str 12, dex 18, con 14, int 12, wis 14, cha 18. Or go human with Dex16 as Finieous proposed (feat inspiring leader, lucky, mobile or ritual caster, I think).

[SylvanPrincess]

Interesting side note, the DM said I could start with a feat if I gave up my starting racial ability mods. I've been set against it, but I want to know what you all feel about that, if it is "good" or not.

Bid, good thought there. Bitng my lip giving up my 19 though having an 18 for dex is starting to seem good in this edition

[Reshazedek]

It is pretty meh, though it does indeed get better when using it as a mount.
It still isn't exactly MCing friendly though, especially with a caster class that doesn't get extra attack as the main focus.

Your reason is sound. I thoroughly concur.

[deathbymanga]

Your reason is sound. I thoroughly concur.

actually, why not Multiclass into Land Druid? Not for the spells, but the spell slots. Grab 6 levels for extra attack and bonus favoured terrain, and then grab druid levels. With more spell slots you can cast so many more of those awesome ranger-only spells

[Mrglee]

A Flying Snake has a fly speed of 60ft, a no-save 3d4 poison, and a decent perception roll. Pump your Proficiency Skills into Perception and Stealth, then carry them over onto your Snake, and you have a super tracker.

That is still fairly mediocre. Granted, probably the most damaging option you can take(at 8 damage as opposed to 7 from the wolf, before prof bonus). Still scales poorly, is useless against anything immune to poison(the most common immunity in the game), and if your game allows feats far weaker than other damage options. It scouts decently, but not better than a rogue or a bard.

Is it the worst thing ever? No. I argue it isn't even the worst archetype in the core book, but it is in the lower 50% of them in my opinion.


actually, why not Multiclass into Land Druid? Not for the spells, but the spell slots. Grab 6 levels for extra attack and bonus favoured terrain, and then grab druid levels. With more spell slots you can cast so many more of those awesome ranger-only spells

From a mechanic standpoint, if you wanted more spell slots, Cleric is a better option. Wildshape doesn't get you much, while you get a solid amount with one level of Cleric. Thematically more fitting to go Druid, but I still don't feel the classes MC well together.

[Mara]

Flying snake is nearly OP. It adds ranger prof to damage twice. It can fly. It has flyby attack. The highest AC of all pets. Also the best to hit.

[SylvanPrincess]

Too bad I'm not a druid...or a ranger..lol

[Mrglee]

Too bad I'm not a druid...or a ranger..lol

Right, my bad, got off topic.

The biggest concern about MCing monk is stats. From your rolls(Nice rolls btw), you can manage getting high primary stats, but getting a good wisdom is going to be hard. If you wear any armor the only part you can really take advantage of is stunning strike(which is super good) and for a long while, you would have as much AC by just casting mage armor.
What exactly do you see your character doing in combat? Are you in the thick of things punching people? Using a rapier? Casting buffs and then wading into melee? Casting spells from safety and then cleaning up in melee?

[deathbymanga]

a Sorcerer Monk might do some good, however, the best way this would work would be to use the Quickened Metamagic to cast spells in your Bonus Action, and if you do that, you're just getting 2 attacks, and you might as well grab a different class instead. You aren't getting that maybe levels in Monk either, so your unarmed strikes won't do much.

I'd go Sorcerer Rogue. You'd only get 1 attack, but if you go Swashbuckler Rogue, you'd be the main damage dealer in the group. You'd Sneak attack won't do THAT much damage with only a 6 level dip, but if you say, split the stats more evenly, Swashbucklers get Panache, which lets them charm and taunt people, and since you'd be a Rogue+Sorcerer, you'd get the best use out of your charisma, which you'd be using to taunt them. Make Dexterity and Charisma your main stats. I'd either go Dragonblood or potentially Favoured Soul.

OR, if you want to really experiment, see if your DM will allow the Shadow Sorcerer that just came out. If you go this way, your character will be able to make Hide Checks in pure darkness all the time, and dish out Sneak attack Damage all the time.

[SylvanPrincess]

Thanks haha.. it's really fine, this thread isn't too concise in its aims.. that being said this is the first character I've made where I wasn't going after bits and pieces to make it optimized (not yet lol). I've instead started with a backstory and how/who I want my character to be, and have begun filling in the parts that will make her..whatever that ends up being ;)

Dm wasn't too keen on favored soul at first, so I may offer to nerf it a lil.

Loose concept...
My character was ophaned at a young age (urchin background) and eventually became a bit of a den mother (while still young herself) to a group of street kids living in an abandoned warehouse. Her mom died tragically in a mugging and in my desperation I tapped into magic I never should have, tried to bring her back to life. Since then I have felt sick whenever I touch that death domain source, and have sought to heal others. I don't have a knack for magical healing but did my best via conventional routes and apprenticed to an herbalist. I would buy food with my measly earnings for my orphan family, until one day I arrived home to them being herded up by guards and sent away. I drove them off with magic missile and Ray of sickness, and sprang the kids free, then we scattered. Turns out the local lord was using urchins in the nearby mines. Being too weak to do much about it I vowed to return to help them one day, and to always help others too weak to help themselves.

Due to my history though I am mistrustful, sneaky and resourceful. I have this dark side of myself I constantly try to ignore and balance with good in my life. Ive chosen skills that try to reflect my past (sleight of hand, stealth, medicine (or nature for herbs..), insight, perception, and persuasion) my starting alignment is chaotic neutral.

I'm thinking I want to get the life domain as well now for flavor reasons. Maybe splash cleric...? Be a secondary healer.. (could I metamagic-twin cure wounds if I have it as a cleric spell?). I want to help people and not hurt them, but I know I can and will do what I must to survive.

The monk idea I think I can let go of. I really wanted shadow step, but that was before I fleshed out exactly whom I wanted to be. So maybe rogue IS the right Mc to pursue.

In the past my groups have never gotten over level 12, and level 7-8 is about average for us to peeter out on.. so while I like to keep a level 20 game plan in mind, I also don't worry too much about 9th or even 8th level spells as they are just a dream to me haha. I instead like to optimize my concept as much as I can without worrying about level 20 min/max.

Thanks again, all of you for following my meanderous character creation path. Maybe I should edit the op title now. :)

Edit: what and where is the shadow sorc?

-kate

[Hawkstar]

Not to mention, look at what your companions can do.

A Flying Snake has a fly speed of 60ft, a no-save 3d4 poison, and a decent perception roll. Pump your Proficiency Skills into Perception and Stealth, then carry them over onto your Snake, and you have a super tracker.

Or, get a Giant Crab as a companion, and grab Athletics as your skill. Your Crab will now be able to grapple anyone, keeping them immobilized and easier to hit.


So, essentially a big middle finger to anyone who wants the iconic Wolf or Big Cat?

[Mrglee]

Edit: what and where is the shadow sorc?

It is Unearthed Arcana beta testing material. (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/02_UA_Underdark_Characters.pdf) Note that because it is beta material, it isn't official yet.
Cleric is a fairly safe 1-3 level dip, if you really want the life domain. And yes, you can metamagic spells that aren't sorc spells.

[Mara]

Thanks haha.. it's really fine, this thread isn't too concise in its aims.. that being said this is the first character I've made where I wasn't going after bits and pieces to make it optimized (not yet lol). I've instead started with a backstory and how/who I want my character to be, and have begun filling in the parts that will make her..whatever that ends up being ;)

Dm wasn't too keen on favored soul at first, so I may offer to nerf it a lil.

Loose concept...
My character was ophaned at a young age (urchin background) and eventually became a bit of a den mother (while still young herself) to a group of street kids living in an abandoned warehouse. Her mom died tragically in a mugging and in my desperation I tapped into magic I never should have, tried to bring her back to life. Since then I have felt sick whenever I touch that death domain source, and have sought to heal others. I don't have a knack for magical healing but did my best via conventional routes and apprenticed to an herbalist. I would buy food with my measly earnings for my orphan family, until one day I arrived home to them being herded up by guards and sent away. I drove them off with magic missile and Ray of sickness, and sprang the kids free, then we scattered. Turns out the local lord was using urchins in the nearby mines. Being too weak to do much about it I vowed to return to help them one day, and to always help others too weak to help themselves.

Due to my history though I am mistrustful, sneaky and resourceful. I have this dark side of myself I constantly try to ignore and balance with good in my life. Ive chosen skills that try to reflect my past (sleight of hand, stealth, medicine (or nature for herbs..), insight, perception, and persuasion) my starting alignment is chaotic neutral.

I'm thinking I want to get the life domain as well now for flavor reasons. Maybe splash cleric...? Be a secondary healer.. (could I metamagic-twin cure wounds if I have it as a cleric spell?). I want to help people and not hurt them, but I know I can and will do what I must to survive.

The monk idea I think I can let go of. I really wanted shadow step, but that was before I fleshed out exactly whom I wanted to be. So maybe rogue IS the right Mc to pursue.

In the past my groups have never gotten over level 12, and level 7-8 is about average for us to peeter out on.. so while I like to keep a level 20 game plan in mind, I also don't worry too much about 9th or even 8th level spells as they are just a dream to me haha. I instead like to optimize my concept as much as I can without worrying about level 20 min/max.

Thanks again, all of you for following my meanderous character creation path. Maybe I should edit the op title now. :)

Edit: what and where is the shadow sorc?

-kateHow about path of shadows monk? You could go variant human and pick up either the healer feat or ritual caster(cleric) to satisfy your dabbling in healing magic.

You could run that you are a shadow monk due to the corrupting influence of trying to perform such dark rights so many years ago has left your ki suffuse with shadow magic.

Mechanically a shadow monk urchin fills the rogue skillmonkey niche almost perfectly. A better mechanical fit for the Vhuman feat is Skulker, but that doesn't exactly fit your concept.

If fullcaster is what you really want to do, have you considered a Great Old One's tomelock? It gives you magic and access to rituals. The patron could represent how you gained the power through desperation for forbidden knowledge. You may not even you know who you gained the magical knowledge from since Great Old One's are very mysterious and alien.

[SylvanPrincess]

How about path of shadows monk? You could go variant human and pick up either the healer feat or ritual caster(cleric) to satisfy your dabbling in healing magic.

You could run that you are a shadow monk due to the corrupting influence of trying to perform such dark rights so many years ago has left your ki suffuse with shadow magic.

Mechanically a shadow monk urchin fills the rogue skillmonkey niche almost perfectly. A better mechanical fit for the Vhuman feat is Skulker, but that doesn't exactly fit your concept.

If fullcaster is what you really want to do, have you considered a Great Old One's tomelock? It gives you magic and access to rituals. The patron could represent how you gained the power through desperation for forbidden knowledge. You may not even you know who you gained the magical knowledge from since Great Old One's are very mysterious and alien.

Ahh well I'm locked into sorc. Dm has us declare our character before we roll numbers. I still have flexibility but it is in which direction I go from here. Nice suggestions though, thank you :)

[Mara]

Ahh well I'm locked into sorc. Dm has us declare our character before we roll numbers. I still have flexibility but it is in which direction I go from here. Nice suggestions though, thank you :)

I still suggest using a feat for your splash of cleric rather than an actual dip.