Fighter Feats?

[bobthehero]

Not for any campaign, yet, but just a fun little thing I was doing for, well, fun. Problem is, I am running outta feats to take.

Race: Aasimar


Level 1
Power Attack

Level 2
Wpn Focus Longsword

Level 3
Toughness

Level 4
Wpn Spec Longsword

Level 5
Dodge

Level 6
Martial Versatility

Level 7
Angelic Blood

Level 8
Greater Wpn Focus Longsword

Level 9
Improved Crits

Level 10
Improved Initiative

Level 11
Angel Wings

Level 12
Greater wpn spec Longsword

Level 13
Flyby attack

Level 14
Penetrating Strike

Level 15
Critical, Blinding

Level 16
Greater Penetrating Strike

Level 17
Martial Mastery

Level 18
Critical, Stunning

Level 19
Critical Mastery

Level 20
Critical Focus

So... anything to fill the flanks? Also, I realise there are better feats than the Wpn Focus/Specialisation line, but I realllllly love those feats and I'd rather stick with them. The other feats, I am not that attached to them, but I think they're pretty good, allowing my fighter to ignore some DR, switch damage type on a whim and eventually allows him to use a large selection of weapon as well as a longsword. Hell he even flies! So yeah, what else could I take? I was thinking of Shield Focus, but then that would go away if I wanted to use 2 handed weapons.

[AvatarVecna]

Improved Critical double your crit threat range. Power Critical gives +4 to crit confirm rolls and is a pre-req to crit effect feats. Go for the Blinding and Stunning ones, and then (if you've still got feats left) take the Fighter-only feat that lets you apply two such effects to every critical, instead of just one.

[bobthehero]

Might be a bit tight in terms of feats, but I guess I could take away dodge and fit everything.

And yes, forgetting Improved Crit is a massive brain fart.

Edit: Swapped stuff around removed dodge and intimidating prowess, replaced them with improved crit and flyby attack (which was moved to level 13, since its not a combat feat)

[Stone Heart]

You have Racial Heritage (Aasimar) twice, which has no benefit, and you can't take it once. Aasimar are not Humanoids but Native Outsiders.

[torrasque666]

You have Racial Heritage (Aasimar) twice, which has no benefit, and you can't take it once. Aasimar are not Humanoids but Native Outsiders.
Unless he took the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait.
Scratch that. I'm a derp.

[grarrrg]

EDIT: gotta quit opening 5 tabs at once...pretty much begging to be ninja'd, and was.



You have Racial Heritage (Aasimar) twice, which has no benefit, and you can't take it once. Aasimar are not Humanoids but Native Outsiders.
EDIT QUOTED!Unless he took the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait.
Scratch that. I'm a derp.

That doesn't quite work.
If he's Human and takes Racial Heritage, he cannot choose Aasimar, because Aasimar by default do not count as Humanoids (even if there are potential exceptions, you have to go by the default/general version).
If he's Aasimar, he -can- take Racial Heritage (assuming he takes Scion of Humanity), but gains no benefit from choosing Human (and cannot choose Aasimar).


As a Human you'd be using your bonus feat to count as Aasimar, and while Aasimar don't get a bonus feat, you don't need to spend on to count as Human, so feat-wise it's the same difference.
As for Stat bonus, if Variant Heritage Aasimars are in play, you can still get a +2 in the stat of your choice, with another +2 in a stat less of your choice.

EDIT2 The Sequel: Since everyone seems keen on editing/quoting/etc... while I'm trying to type my posts, I'm just going to go ahead an time-warp quote the guy below me:

I clicked to quote you and you had already caught it, but to make it clear for everyone, Scion of Humanity is a trait for Aasimar to count as Human and Aasimar, and lose the native outsider type. So he could then take Racial heritage, but using it for Aasimar would be redundant.
You do NOT lose the Outsider (Native) type, you keep/gain both:
"with this racial trait counts as an outsider (native) and a humanoid (human) for any effect related to race"

[Stone Heart]

Unless he took the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait.
Scratch that. I'm a derp.

I clicked to quote you and you had already caught it, but to make it clear for everyone, Scion of Humanity is a trait for Aasimar to count as Human and Aasimar, and lose the native outsider type. So he could then take Racial heritage, but using it for Aasimar would be redundant.

[bobthehero]

The Heritage is an error in copy pasting, whoops. I guess I can switch the race, take the trait to count as human and go with it. Thanks for that!

[Psyren]

Not for any campaign, yet, but just a fun little thing I was doing for, well, fun. Problem is, I am running outta feats to take.

Race: Aasimar


Level 1
Power Attack

Level 2
Wpn Focus Longsword

Level 3
Toughness

Level 4
Wpn Spec Longsword

Level 5
Dodge

Level 6
Martial Versatility

Level 7
Angelic Blood

Level 8
Greater Wpn Focus Longsword

Level 9
Improved Crits

Level 10
Improved Initiative

Level 11
Angel Wings

Level 12
Greater wpn spec Longsword

Level 13
Flyby attack

Level 14
Penetrating Strike

Level 15
Critical, Blinding

Level 16
Greater Penetrating Strike

Level 17
Martial Mastery

Level 18
Critical, Stunning

Level 19
Critical Mastery

Level 20
Critical Focus

So... anything to fill the flanks? Also, I realise there are better feats than the Wpn Focus/Specialisation line, but I realllllly love those feats and I'd rather stick with them. The other feats, I am not that attached to them, but I think they're pretty good, allowing my fighter to ignore some DR, switch damage type on a whim and eventually allows him to use a large selection of weapon as well as a longsword. Hell he even flies! So yeah, what else could I take? I was thinking of Shield Focus, but then that would go away if I wanted to use 2 handed weapons.

For a critical-focused build as this appears to be, I wouldn't go with Longsword - you want a high threat-range weapon (something 18-20, like a Scimitar.) That way you can crit on a 15 with keen/IC.


Aasimar by default do not count as Humanoids (even if there are potential exceptions, you have to go by the default/general version).

Citation for this? Racial Heritage does not contain this restriction that I can see. Scion of Humanity Aasimars are a humanoid race (that just happens to be something else simultaneously.)

[torrasque666]

Citation for this? Racial Heritage does not contain this restriction that I can see. Scion of Humanity Aasimars are a humanoid race (that just happens to be something else simultaneously.)
Racial Heritage does not give you racial traits. Regardless, SoH does not actually make you a humanoid, just lets it count as one for a few things. Their type does not actually change, they are still actually Outsiders. It basically gives them the equivalent of the Orc and Elf Blood racial traits.


In any case, I put the question up on Paizo's boards, to see if we can get a FAQ answer. It might also invite some discussion over there.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t1gr?Scion-of-Humanity-and-Racial-Heritage

[Psyren]

Racial Heritage does not give you racial traits. Regardless, SoH does not actually make you a humanoid, just lets it count as one for a few things. Their type does not actually change, they are still actually Outsiders. It basically gives them the equivalent of the Orc and Elf Blood racial traits.

Not "for a few things" - "any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites", which is considerably broader than you're attempting to suggest. You have to show that this isn't an effect.

[torrasque666]

Not "for a few things" - "any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites", which is considerably broader than you're attempting to suggest. You have to show that this isn't an effect.
Because Aasimar is a race, Scion of Humanity is a racial trait. Racial Traits are not something that is carried over by Racial Heritage. The only thing that allows a SoH Aasimar to satisfy the qualifier of "humanoid race" is a racial trait. Which isn't carried over by the feat. You'd have Racial Heritage (Aasimar) not Racial Heritage (Scion of Humanity Aasimar) and even SoH Aasimar are still of the Outsider type.

[Psyren]

Because Aasimar is a race, Scion of Humanity is a racial trait. Racial Traits are not something that is carried over by Racial Heritage. The only thing that allows a SoH Aasimar to satisfy the qualifier of "humanoid race" is a racial trait. Which isn't carried over by the feat. You'd have Racial Heritage (Aasimar) not Racial Heritage (Scion of Humanity Aasimar) and even SoH Aasimar are still of the Outsider type.

So a race with a racial trait stops being a race?

Bold is what I need a citation for and still have not gotten.

[torrasque666]

So a race with a racial trait stops being a race?

Bold is what I need a citation for and still have not gotten.

Where in the following does it say you get racial abilities (the stuff listed under Racial Traits, for whatever reason)?
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.
It says you count as a race, but never states you get that races Racial Abilities. You can take Race Traits (the traits subcategory, like Combat Traits or Social Traits) but you don't get racial abilities.

[Psyren]

Where in the following does it say you get racial abilities (the stuff listed under Racial Traits, for whatever reason)?
It says you count as a race, but never states you get that races Racial Abilities. You can take Race Traits (the traits subcategory, like Combat Traits or Social Traits) but you don't get racial abilities.

Does an Aasimar with Scion of Humanity stop being an Aasimar (a race?) The feat says nothing about "defaults" which is the same objection I had to grarrg's reading.

We may have to just rule on it differently at our own tables as this is going nowhere.

[DedWards]

Level 1
Power Attack

Level 2
Wpn Focus Longsword

Level 3
Toughness

Level 4
Wpn Spec Longsword

Level 5
Dodge

Level 6
Martial Versatility

Level 7
Angelic Blood

Level 8
Greater Wpn Focus Longsword

Level 9
Improved Crits

Level 10
Improved Initiative

Level 11
Angel Wings

Level 12
Greater wpn spec Longsword

Level 13
Flyby attack

Level 14
Penetrating Strike

Level 15
Critical, Blinding

Level 16
Greater Penetrating Strike

Level 17
Martial Mastery

Level 18
Critical, Stunning

Level 19
Critical Mastery

Level 20
Critical Focus


You seem to have forgotten the Feats Prerequisites and placed them earlier than they can be taken. You also forgot, now that you're using the Racial Trait "Scion of Humanity" for the Aasimar to qualify for Martial Versatility and Martial Mastery, you get two Feats at level 1. I rearranged them how I would position them:

Level 1: Power Attack
Level 1: Weapon Focus: Longsword
Level 2: Improved Initiative
Level 3: Toughness
Level 4: Weapon Specialization: Longsword
Level 5: Martial Versatility
Level 6: Dodge
Level 7: Angelic Blood
Level 8: Greater Weapon Focus: Longsword
Level 9: Improved Critical
Level 10: Critical Focus
Level 11: Angel Wings
Level 12: Greater Weapon Specialization: Longsword
Level 13: Flyby Attack
Level 14: Penetrating Strike
Level 15: Staggering Critical
Level 16: Greater Penetrating Strike
Level 17: Martial Mastery
Level 18: Blinding Critical
Level 19: Stunning Critical
Level 20: Critical Mastery


Because Angelic Wings isn't a combat feat, I was forced to put it at level 11. This makes placing Flyby Attack more difficult as it too isn't a combat feat (it's a monster feat).
Stunning Critical requires Staggering Critical, luckily I noticed the missing level 1 Feat :smalltongue:

[grarrrg]

Citation for this? Racial Heritage does not contain this restriction that I can see. Scion of Humanity Aasimars are a humanoid race (that just happens to be something else simultaneously.)

Because if "optionals" are allowed than an Aasimar+Scion of Humanity could choose to target "An Elf Sorcerer that took the Orc bloodline", and so he now counts as Aasimar, Human, Elf, Orc and potentially even Half-Elf and Half-Orc.

Of, if you want to get a little more stupid. You choose Racial Heritage on a Human who has taken Racial Heritage on a Human that has also taken Racial Heritage on a Human that has also taken Racial Heritage that has....and now you count as EVERY HUMANOID RACE EVER!!!!1!!!

If you do NOT go by the "default/generic" race, then you open the door to MADNESS!

[Psyren]

Because if "optionals" are allowed than an Aasimar+Scion of Humanity could choose to target "An Elf Sorcerer that took the Orc bloodline", and so he now counts as Aasimar, Human, Elf, Orc and potentially even Half-Elf and Half-Orc.

Of, if you want to get a little more stupid. You choose Racial Heritage on a Human who has taken Racial Heritage on a Human that has also taken Racial Heritage on a Human that has also taken Racial Heritage that has....and now you count as EVERY HUMANOID RACE EVER!!!!1!!!

If you do NOT go by the "default/generic" race, then you open the door to MADNESS!

The reductio ad absurdum is cute and all, but none of the things you listed contain the very broad "any effect related to race" clause.

As I said to torrasque, you rule it your way, I'll rule it mine (and ne'er the 'twain shall meet.)

[Sayt]

You have a feat missing at level 1, which others have pointed out. I suggest using it to pick up a cool exotic weapon, which are often better at critting, as that seems a focus of your build:

The Estoc deals 2d4 damage and has a native 18-20 threat range.
The Falcata deals 1d8, has a 19-20 threat range and a x3 critical multiplier, making it an excellent weapon for critical focused fighters.

If you want to go two-handed, the Elven Curve Blade serves pretty well, at d10, 18-20/2, alternatively the Fauchard (d10, 18-20/2, Reach+trip).

If you do decide to go with the Fauchard, I highly suggest picking up Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Greater Trip and Combat Reflexes, probably at the expense of the Focus/Spec line, but you have mentioned some attachment to them.

Also, remember that you can hold a one handed weapon in two hands to get the x1.5 power attack and strength modifiers.

Edit: Also, are you taking the default aasimar, or one of the variants? Angelblood and Archonblooded makes a somewhat superior choicse to the Generic aasimar, Angel getting Strength and Charisma bonuses, and Archons getting Con and Wis.

[bobthehero]

Probably would go with Angel descend, since y'know, I take a feat called ''Angelic Blood''

As for the weapon, I simply went with longsword because its my go-to weapon and my favorite, obviously you can swap it to whatever (and at level 17 it will stop mattering entirely)

[DedWards]

Also, are you taking the default aasimar, or one of the variants? Angelblood and Archonblooded makes a somewhat superior choicse to the Generic aasimar, Angel getting Strength and Charisma bonuses, and Archons getting Con and Wis.

Could you link these variants? I can't seem to find them.

I think he has to go Aasimar with the racial trait Scion of Humanity to qualify for 4 feats of his feats. Angelic Blood and Angel Wings require him to be Aasimar. Martial Versatility and Martial Mastery require him to be human, and Scion of Humanity allows an Aasimar to count as human for these feats.

[MortalSword]

The opalescent white pyramid ioun-stone.
Comes online a bit later due to price but it gives you a free Weapon Proficiency for its keyed weapon + free Weapon Focus when placed in a wayfinder (Resonant Powers Method 1. Seekers of Secrets book) Not sure if this would qualify you for other feats that require WF but it could potentially free up a feat slot if your GM rules in your favour. Find one keyed to your favorite Exotic Weapon and never waste a feat on them again!

As to the derailed thread, some feat ideas:

Combat Expertise > Improved <Maneuver> feat. Trip them with a reach weapon, dirty trick them as they stand up. Requires combat reflexes and a decent dex and Agile Maneuvers can work if you pump your Dex instead of Str. Also has the side effect of annoying your GM with the amount of AO's you make.

I'm a fan of melee's that can debuff. Merciful + cruel (A paradox I know lol) enhancements on a weapon + Enforcer feat + dazzling display + Maidens Helm + misc intimidate items and gear = A sickened and Shaken/Frightened (with a dip into rogue with the thug archetype or other method to escalate fear effects) creature. Super fun with multiple attacks.

As for more crit chances. TWF feat chain comes into play here as well as Keen or Improved Crit on an 18-20 weapon. As for your attachment to longsword, I say the weapon base damage is irrelevant compared to the crit range. I would definitely choose a d6 weapon with a higher range vs a potential 2 extra damage.

If you decide that a higher base die roll is great than the Vital Strike route is your cup of tea and you really should pump it up! 2h wep + Potion of Enlarge person + Oil of Lead Blades. Turn that Great Sword into a 4/8/12/16 d6 beast! Titan fighter archetype can let you do it with an oversize 2h weapon for even more stupidity (6d6 base with a great sword with the buffs mentioned) but with a to hit cost. Also a Dip into Living Monolith saves a round of buffs for this with a swift action enlarge a limited number of times per day iirc.

Whatever you choose just have fun with it!

[Sayt]

Could you link these variants? I can't seem to find them.

I think he has to go Aasimar with the racial trait Scion of Humanity to qualify for 4 feats of his feats. Angelic Blood and Angel Wings require him to be Aasimar. Martial Versatility and Martial Mastery require him to be human, and Scion of Humanity allows an Aasimar to count as human for these feats.

Archon-blooded and Angelkin can be found here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-aasimar), under variant heritages. Each alters the SLA, skill bonuses, and ability score bonuses. Scion of HUmanity replaces Celestial as a bonus language, they are fundamentally compatible, unless I'm missing something.

[DedWards]

Archon-blooded and Angelkin can be found here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-aasimar), under variant heritages. Each alters the SLA, skill bonuses, and ability score bonuses. Scion of HUmanity replaces Celestial as a bonus language, they are fundamentally compatible, unless I'm missing something.

I wasn't aware of the "Variant Aasimar Heritages" as they're not in the Advanced Race Guide nor on the Pathfinder app I use, "Masterwork Tools". This is why I couldn't find it. Rules wise, I don't see a problem as the Variant Aasimar Heritages don't alter the race's languages; but flavour wise, Scion of Humanity kind of sounds like thy're more human while Angel-blooded/Archon-blooded sounds like they're more angle/archon like.

[grarrrg]

flavour wise, Scion of Humanity kind of sounds like thy're more human while Angel-blooded/Archon-blooded sounds like they're more angle/archon like.

From the first line of Aasimar flavor:
"Aasimars are humans with a significant amount of celestial or other good outsider blood in their ancestry."

By flavor ALL Aasimars have a significant chunk of human in them, so Scion of Humanity makes sense.
As for variants, I think the idea is that you can tell which celestial/outsiders were involved, instead of just "generic good aligned ancestor being".