How to make a shamanic cleric

[Cael Immortalis]

Hi all,

Recently joined a D&D 5e game and I'm not sure how best represent my character concept. I thought I'd sign up for these forums and see if those with more experience with the game than I could give me some pointers and answer a few questions.

The group I am joining recommended I play a cleric, as it would cover a hole in the current group dynamic.
I've played D&D 5e a fair bit before, but I've never played a cleric and the traditional heavily armoured-healbot cleric sterotype doesn't interest me very much.

As an alternative I was planning to make a tribal-shaman type cleric that is a little less civilized and more aggressive than the usual heavy-armored kind, preferably fairly mobile and lightly armored.
I am not sure of the best way to create this concept within the 5e rules.

One problem I am having working on this concept is that Clerics seem very much designed around having medium and heavy armor, and stylistically I don't think the eventual half or full plate suits the wild elf background.
Are there any spells or tricks that can be used to get a decent Cleric AC without wearing plate or half-plate armor?
I've looked at Barkskin from the Nature domain, but it seems to be concentration, which makes it a terrible idea for a main source of armour.

Race-wise, I'm planning to be a wood elf, but of the savage and mysterious killers in the woods type rather than the playful laughter among the trees type.
Do any of the cleric domains work particularly well or badly as a Wood Elf?

Religion, I am thinking some kind of ancestor or nature worship, the Nature domain seems to have an odd selection of mostly-concentration spells though. It seems mostly to be concentration spells that restrict or force movement.
Can anyone who has played a nature cleric tell me what they thought of the spell selection and whether their domain spells were useful?

Alternatively. I was considering the same basic concept with a Trickery cleric, as the group lacks a rogue and our bard is social rather than sneaky.
I have read that the Trickery Cleric isn't very effective, but there are ways to compensate for that via multi-classing and feats, but I've not found a detailed breakdown of the best ways to do this or why these methods work, aside from going rogue and combining the obvious sneak-attack and invoke duplicity abilities.
Aside from rogue, what are the best class combinations for a Trickery Cleric and why?

I did have the idea of using the 'Approach' option on the Command spell through Invoke Duplicity duplicate to force someone in melee to move away from me, provoking an AoO. Would this work?

Multi-classing into barbarian might solve the AC issue, but makes the character somewhat MAD, needing Str, Dex, Con and Wis. Totem Warrior is also on-theme, but the group already has a barbarian and I am concerned that as the main healer I'd regret the loss of spell slots early on.
Has anyone played a multi-class Nature or Trickery Cleric/Barbarian and was it fun?

I will be starting as a level 2 character, thank you for reading and I look forward to your advice.

[Finieous]

I haven't played any of the subclasses you're asking about, so I can't be much help. But is there any reason you can't play a land druid? Unless they're just looking for a bless and heal bot, that should fill the "gap" and suit your concept much better.

[Cael Immortalis]

I haven't played any of the subclasses you're asking about, so I can't be much help. But is there any reason you can't play a land druid? Unless they're just looking for a bless and heal bot, that should fill the "gap" and suit your concept much better.

Good idea, but the group already has a druid- although they are moon druid who spends most of their time in melee in animal form.
Although I admit there's a lot of scope for differences within the druid class, I was thinking being a different class entirely will probably bring more options to the group.

[Scroofy]

Just a thought, but what about going cleric, then multi classing into Monk. It would provide you with your Wis bonus for unarmoured defence. You could also gain more movement speed as well.

[Yorrin]

A Dex based Cleric is totally viable! Studded Leather and Wood Elf work great for Dex Cleric builds!

Elves basically break open any Domain to Dex builds, thanks to their racial weapon proficiencies granting shortsword and longbow. Though of course for the Shaman feel I might advise Nature Domain with Shillelagh, which is a fun build. See the guide in my sig for an in-depth look at Clerics of all stripes. If you go Tempest, War, or Death Domain you gain full martial weapon proficiencies, in case you want to upgrade your weapon selection to Rapier and Heavy Crossbow.

[Cael Immortalis]

Just a thought, but what about going cleric, then multi classing into Monk. It would provide you with your Wis bonus for unarmoured defence. You could also gain more movement speed as well.

Mechanically, that's brilliant.

It's an odd thought to go Monk to add a more savage and wild feel to another class. I know they don't have to be Lawful anymore, but they still seem disciplined and fairly orderly.
I'll have to think on how I can re-fluff to make it more appropriate but it could definitely work.


See the guide in my sig for an in-depth look at Clerics of all stripes. If you go Tempest, War, or Death Domain you gain full martial weapon proficiencies, in case you want to upgrade your weapon selection to Rapier and Heavy Crossbow.

Thanks Yorrin, I've read your guide. I like the domain abilities for the Nature Cleric (except Charm Animal and Plants breaking on any damage appears to make itself and their last Domain ability somewhat useless).
Shillelagh is great as well. However, I think that Trickery has a much more interesting Domain spell list. Additionally, Invoke Duplicity seems to have incredible potential for tricks in combination with other spells, especially if I later on grab a level or two a class with more directly offensive magic. Thunderwave or the new Sword Burst cantrip (from SCAG) seem to have lots of potential with this ability.
I noticed that in the multi-classing section you mentioned Trickery Cleric combining with Monk to be more relevant- can you provide any more detail on how that works? How does it compare to Trickery/Arcane Trickster?

Edited for readability

[Yorrin]

I noticed that in the multi-classing section you mentioned Trickery Cleric combining with Monk to be more relevant- can you provide any more detail on how that works? How does it compare to Trickery/Arcane Trickster?

Both are ways to get around Trickery Clerics otherwise having to rely on daggers for damage. But as a Wood Elf you're already bypassing that. If you go the Monk route you'd want enough levels to get your base damage die up to a d6, which would really be more relevant for a Monk dipping Cleric, tbh. Rogue/Trickery would be a better build, imo. AT potentially has some MAD issues, but Assassin or Swashbuckler, for example, would go very well with a Trickery Cleric. Or even just take a two level dip for Cunning Action. Either way, you want your first level to be Rogue for the better proficiencies on this build.

[JoeJ]

For armor, Hide is medium armor and would be pretty thematic for a tribal shaman.

[djreynolds]

Paladin Oath of Ancients. Could fill this void.

That said, what are looking for. A diviner type, who peers into the future. A dusty hermit. What are fighting with in combat? Spells, ranged, finesse, buffs and de-buffs. To me a shaman is primitive.

Are you rolling? That's big as it will change what you can multiclass with. Say you rolled really well. Totem barbarian/ war cleric or tempest cleric could be cool. 4 stats str, wis, dex, con. Hide Shield and spear and bone club. Can wear hide armor till you dex raises?

[Lollerabe]

I can see your problem as the three most fitting shaman like domains are nature,tempest,life (imo at least). And they all offer heavy armor.
I personally dislike dipping as a cleric, so you want to be dex based right ? I think in order for you to play the concept you got your heart set on, you should talk to your dm.

Maybe you can 'trade' heavy armor for something else ? Doesn't have to be a combat related boon, could be anything that you both deem concept fitting and relevant.
Or it could simply be medium armor master - slap a scale Mail on top of that and it would be very fitting.

Maybe re fluff the rapier/scimitar (if going tempest) to a d8 finesse warspear for flavor ?
It's unfortunate but your concept requires a lvl of home brew to really make it 'pop', not that it would become broken by that :)

[Cael Immortalis]

Paladin Oath of Ancients. Could fill this void.

That said, what are looking for. A diviner type, who peers into the future. A dusty hermit. What are fighting with in combat? Spells, ranged, finesse, buffs and de-buffs. To me a shaman is primitive.

Are you rolling? That's big as it will change what you can multiclass with.

I am thinking fairly primitive, an exile from a barbarian/outlander tribe. Young, reasonably active and ambitious.

Out of combat- the group needs more healing and a support character- stealth, lock-picking, trap-handling and perception, which fortunately are all available through race and backgrounds. Additionally, Guidance may help a lot with some of these and make up for lack of Expertise.

In combat- I will most likely avoid direct damage spells most of the time in favor of melee combat and de-buffing. Buffing and heals also to be used when necessary but not a main focus.
I don't have a direct preference whether melee is through finesse or through strength, but finesse seems less MAD and fits better with lighter armor.

Stats are point-buy, which for me is fortunate as I have a bad habit of rolling terribly for stats and for hit-point increases.


Maybe re fluff the rapier/scimitar (if going tempest) to a d8 finesse warspear for flavor ?
It's unfortunate but your concept requires a lvl of home brew to really make it 'pop', not that it would become broken by that :)

I'll have a chat with my DM.

[Coyote81]

This is just an idea, hope it helps.

So this is meant to be a cleric19 monk 1 type build (Although taking 4 levels in monk later for your ASI and some other perks wouldn't be bad either) I started with cleric for better starting saving throws and other cleric options. This should cover your Barbarian Shaman that is melee focused that can cover the lockpicking and healing duties. With some nice RP elements. You start with 14AC and at level 4 take 1 in dex and 1 in wis to gain +2 AC. Quarterstaff is a monk weapon so you get to use your dex with it and get to make unarmed strikes as a bonus action if you choose, with spears as backup weapons and throwing weapons. Since Shillelagh isn't needed thorn whip becomes a nice go to cantrip from the druid list. It's your only ranged spell, because if your in melee, you don't want to suffer disadvantage on your attacks, so I just avoided those all together. Hopefully this sounds like a good Barbarian Shaman. BTW if you are really interested in one of the new melee cantrips, take magic initiative feat and get booming blade, it scales on level (not spellcasting stat) and does extra damage if your enemy moves (which they will have to if you get level 2 monk, you can spend your ki to disengage as a bonus action)

Woodelf Cleric1/Monk1 (nature)
S8 (0)
D15 (9)
C13 (5)
I10 (2)
W15 (9)
Ch10 (2)

Saving Throws:Wisdom Charisma

Background: Customized Outlander (Outlander who made his way to the big city, and doesn't know how to follow the laws.) Proficient with: Stealth, Survival, Thieves tools, Herbalism kit. Wander Feature

Skills
Insight, Religion, Nature, Stealth, Survival, Thieves Tools, Herbalism Kit

Unarmored Defense
Martial Arts

Equip:(used cleric average starting gold of 100g)
3xSpears
Quarterstaff
Holy Symbol Amulet
herbalism Kit
Thieves Tools
Explorer's Pack
51gold left for McGuyver items

Domain Spells
Animal friemdship(domain)
Speak with Animals(domain)

Druid Cantrip
-Thorn Whip

Cleric Cantrips
-Guidance (Excellent skill checks)
-Spare the Dying(prevent death checks)
-Thaumaturgy(Great for RP checks and getting DM bonuses to RP elements of the game)

Prepared 3 Cleric Spells
-Cure Wounds
-Bless
-Inflict Wounds

[djreynolds]

Barbarian/ tempest cleric is fine, thematic, tanky. Not optimized though, you will depend on medium armor not the barbarian's unarmored defense for a long time.

Monk/cleric is just too much "Kung Fu" and grasshopper for me.

[ruy343]

Barbarian/ tempest cleric is fine, thematic, tanky. Not optimized though, you will depend on medium armor not the barbarian's unarmored defense for a long time.

Monk/cleric is just too much "Kung Fu" and grasshopper for me.

This is the direction I was leaning; while a monk can make you less multi-ability-dependent, you're always going to need Constitution, which will grant you Con-based unarmored defense in this case. And the "totem" paths scream shaman...

Also, bear in mind that if the only thing your team needs you for is as a healbot/buffer, your wisdom doesn't need to be sky-high, since you're not trying to set a saving throw DC that's hard for enemies beat. After all, your spells would target friendlies.

While you're at it, pick up the "healer" feat, which will let you bring people back to 1 HP (on their feet) in combat as an action (for a healer's kit use). Spend time during long rests foraging for berries and such to replenish it (I usually make my players roll a Survival or Nature check (DC 15) to find 1 healer's kit use in a short rest, and an additional use for every 5 above that they roll. Long rests have that DC reduced by 5. (It takes a measure of luck to find healing plants, but it's easier when you have 8 hours instead of just 1.)

[Phawksin]

I knew its generally considered the worst class, but I'm surprised nobody has recommended a level or two dip in Ranger. Granted first level is a little lame but it seems to fit the theme and the fighting style and Hunter's Mark are going to be useful on a combat focused character without killing your spellcasting progression like taking Barbarian would.

[Yorrin]

I knew its generally considered the worst class, but I'm surprised nobody has recommended a level or two dip in Ranger. Granted first level is a little lame but it seems to fit the theme and the fighting style and Hunter's Mark are going to be useful on a combat focused character without killing your spellcasting progression like taking Barbarian would.

Ranger's not a bad dip, but for this build Rogue is better in pretty much every way.

[Cette]

I knew its generally considered the worst class, but I'm surprised nobody has recommended a level or two dip in Ranger. Granted first level is a little lame but it seems to fit the theme and the fighting style and Hunter's Mark are going to be useful on a combat focused character without killing your spellcasting progression like taking Barbarian would.

Was going to suggest the same. The Rangers skillset supports the style of character he seems to want and still contributes somewhat to spell slots. Plus you know complimentary Multiclassing stats so it's not too MAD.

[Cael Immortalis]

On further reflection, I've realized that a monk/cleric would run into difficulties with the cleric's extra D8 on a weapon attack not being compatible with the Monk's unarmed strike, as I don't believe unarmed strikes count as weapon attacks.
Rangers are fun- I've played one successfully before, but surprisingly it doesn't add much by way of movement options and only offers the +1 AC from protection style defensively.
Great though Hunter's Mark can be, I'm not sure that it is worth it unless you if you're going far enough into Ranger to get Extra Attack.

That being said, I've looked more into Sword Coast Adventures, I like the look of the Bladesinger, I wonder if a Bladesinger-Cleric would work. It fits the fast, lightly armored combatant role using Mage Armour for AC and Exp. Retreat for bonus action dash. Not sure if it would work better with Trickery or Nature for Cleric Domain though, probably Trickery for the Advantage on Melee Attacks and ability to use AoE spells from range.

Full spell-casting progression, Extra Attack eventually, and an admittedly modest boost to movement spend, concentration and acrobatics checks.

The overall build would be a bit MAD but it might be possible to minimize that if the Wizard spell selection was focused heavily on spells that did not require an intelligence-based attack roll or allow a saving throw. Or Cleric spells that do not require a Wisdom based attack roll or saving throw.

[Yorrin]

You'd be better served just playing the new Arcana Domian Cleric, if you're going that route. Much less MAD. Alternatively Life Cleric 1/Lore Bard X is a fantastic healer build if you're wanting an Arcane Healer.

[Coyote81]

On further reflection, I've realized that a monk/cleric would run into difficulties with the cleric's extra D8 on a weapon attack not being compatible with the Monk's unarmed strike, as I don't believe unarmed strikes count as weapon attacks.
Rangers are fun- I've played one successfully before, but surprisingly it doesn't add much by way of movement options and only offers the +1 AC from protection style defensively.
Great though Hunter's Mark can be, I'm not sure that it is worth it unless you if you're going far enough into Ranger to get Extra Attack.

That being said, I've looked more into Sword Coast Adventures, I like the look of the Bladesinger, I wonder if a Bladesinger-Cleric would work. It fits the fast, lightly armored combatant role using Mage Armour for AC and Exp. Retreat for bonus action dash. Not sure if it would work better with Trickery or Nature for Cleric Domain though, probably Trickery for the Advantage on Melee Attacks and ability to use AoE spells from range.

Full spell-casting progression, Extra Attack eventually, and an admittedly modest boost to movement spend, concentration and acrobatics checks.

The overall build would be a bit MAD but it might be possible to minimize that if the Wizard spell selection was focused heavily on spells that did not require an intelligence-based attack roll or allow a saving throw. Or Cleric spells that do not require a Wisdom based attack roll or saving through.


Remember that the initial attack can be made unarmed or with monk weapons, if using monk weapons then you can use the cleric bonus damage to attack. You can only use it so often, so you don't really need it on every attack in a round.

[djreynolds]

I knew its generally considered the worst class, but I'm surprised nobody has recommended a level or two dip in Ranger. Granted first level is a little lame but it seems to fit the theme and the fighting style and Hunter's Mark are going to be useful on a combat focused character without killing your spellcasting progression like taking Barbarian would.

Ranger / war cleric or tempest can be pretty awesome together and quite thematic. Definitely worth looking into and much more ability balanced with heavy or medium armor, good healing, great attack, good spell selection to. Just need to get enough ranger and now the archer has a bonus action with war cleric, so not to bad.

[downlobot]

Apologies, as there's a very good chance I've missed your goal. But as I've thought about the shaman type cleric since reading your thread yesterday, I thought that I would just play a straight cleric with the same armor restrictions as a druid - start with hide, eventually find something like dragonscale, bullette, ankheg, to make half plate equivalent. For a melee-type shaman, I'd aim to put 14s in str, dex, con, and wis to start. This is not optimized, but would contribute, and in my mind would meet the picture of corded muscle, feral ability.

I can't say much about domains, as an animist anything could fit, except knowledge. E.g.: worship the sun for Light, earth for Life or Nature, fox spirits (or.just spirits) for Trickery, blood for War.

The multi classing options all look great, too. For myself, I think I'd just go with focusing more on the character of it than the mechanics of it. That being said, I likely missed something important in what you were looking for.

[Cael Immortalis]

Thanks for the help all, I have now played the character.

Unfortunately, he pretty much taken out of action before his initiative on the first round of his first combat, but I think that was mostly due to incredibly good rolling on the part of the GM.

Oh well, I have a spare drawing board around here somewhere.

[Dimolyth]

Thanks for the help all, I have now played the character.

Unfortunately, he pretty much taken out of action before his initiative on the first round of his first combat, but I think that was mostly due to incredibly good rolling on the part of the GM.

Oh well, I have a spare drawing board around here somewhere.

Well, I missed a topic that I`m pretty interesed in. Though it is too late to give an advice, I`ll just share my plan for a futher game.

You inspired me to play a wood elf shaman cleric - single class, death domain...

P.S. For a "shamanic" feel it is always good to take material components rather than spellcasting focus. Though cleric`s list is not impressive in that, at least they got augury.

[Tanarii]

Ranger 1, Druid 1, Ranger to 5, Druid to 14, Ranger to 6. Human Variant, Medium Armor Master.

Str 10 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 10
Shillelagh/Thorn Whip & Shield starting at level 2, FS Defense at level 3, Extra Attack at level 6.
Spellcasting starts slow but tops out with level 9 spells at level 20, including ritual casting on Druidic/Nature-y rituals.
ASIs Wis 16->18, Dex 14->16, Wis 18->20, Con 14->16 (or Feat)

I'd say go Beastmaster, but your companion will top out at 20 hps (level 5) for the majority of your career, and you'll never get 2 beast attacks with it. So probably Hunter.

Edit: Missed you'd played the character and he ate turf already. You going to try something similar, or something completely new?