Need ideas for shadowpouncer final levels.

[jokeaccount]

We started our campaign at level 6 and I made the mistake of going for a Shadowpouncer build since I'm a huge fan of teleportation in general but I didn't take into account the huge amount of wait time I had to do for the build to go online. Now finally after 4 years of scarcely playing, reaching level 13 and some DM fiat I have reached my goal:

Character Name: Locke
Class: Rogue4/Fighter5/ShadowWalker(LA+1)/TFSL3
(Note: For a huge quest reward the DM gave us the option of getting our next class feature even without the appropriate level so I have Shadowpounce with 3 levels of TFSL).

For feats, except for the TFSL prerequisites I chose:
TWF, Imp. TWF, Craven, Staggering Strike, Weapon Finesse

Also due to story circumstances we were able to exchange XP for Spell Like Abilities so I bought 5 Dimension Doors/day and a Permanent Freedom of Movement. Other than that, the rest of my abilities come from TFSL and Shadow Walker template.

My general strategy is to buff myself with Greater Invisibility if the enemy can't see through it or cast Darkness around them and in the next turn cast Wraithstrike (from wand chamber) for my swift action then Shadowpounce once using Boots of Swift Passage and another time using Shadow Jump or Dimension Door. If the Bard/buff-bot did his job correctly I should be hasted giving me 5 attacks on a full-attack for a total of 10 attacks. With my sub-optimal weapons and taking some basic buffs into account this nets an average of 280 damage.

What I'm looking for right now is ideas on how to proceed after this (I didn't really plan the character beyond this point :p ). I'm almost definitely going to get another Fighter level to reach the magic 11 BAB for 3 attacks and the extra saves etc. I was also thinking of getting Greater TWF for my Fighter feat but at this point I'm not really sure I need it and if I'll be able to hit all the -10 attacks (although with Wraithstrike and Dex deny from invisibility it should be fairly easy). I'm estimating we'll end the campaign at around level 15 and I'm looking for ideas on how to plan the last 3 levels.

Things to keep in mind:
-Most books are usable except for Tome of Battle and weird ones like Oriental Adventures, or campaign specific (like Demonweb Pits). Also, no online material.

-We don't fight many 'random' battles. Most if not all battles are 'story-mode' battles we either chose to get into or were dragged to. This means that we fight once or twice between rest periods at most but the battles always have appropriate CR foes that come buffed and geared up. An example battle is our classic party of 5 against a group of 4 lvl 11 Paladins and 2 lvl 13 Ordained Champions who had at least 10 buffs each (everything you can think a battle Cleric would use).

-We don't find many items. Each of us might have some special items (I got a ring of spider climb for example) but otherwise we're mostly losers. Our party is lvl 13 and I still weild a Kukri +1 Human Bane and a Short Sword +1. Our Cleric I believe wields either a Masterwork of a +1 mace. The Bard has nothing and the Wizard burned all his money on a Quicken Rod. Only the meat shield has decent equipment.

-The end boss is probably a Demigod or a fallen deity probably using divine magic (we think he's disguised as a paladin at the moment) since all of his followers are Clerics.

-There probably won't be any dragons.

-The DM loves his Zombies and Golems. This makes me sad (but I still got Wands of Grave/Golem strike).

Here is the link to my character sheet if anyone is interested: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=281468
Note that some stuff is calculated for a 13 level character (like skill points and some template abilities).

[Dread_Head]

Two levels of Totemist (Magic of Incarnum) gives you access to the Totem Chakra bind. If you bind Blink Shirt to your totem chakra you get to use Dimension Door at will as a Move action, albeit with short range. This gets you an extra full attack a turn (provided you have a method of standard action teleporting that doesn't end your turn (basically not DD).

Otherwise more levels of TFSL don't hurt, the casting is reasonable as are the other abilities granted and taking one more level would also give you that extra point of BAB for a third attack.

[jokeaccount]

As I said I'm already using Boots of Swift Passage for teleporting as a move action THEN using Dimension Door for a standard action teleport so I'm pretty much covered in that front. More levels of TFSL don't hurt but the spells he gets are boring and borderline useless. Also the next ability after Shadow Pounce, Shadow Discorporation, is very situational and I'm afraid with the enemies we're fighting it will be almost impossible to pull off.

[WhamBamSam]

If you're lawful, then a level of Monk to qualify for Sun School will get you an extra attack per teleport, or more if you decide to flurry on your full attacks (though the latter may result in "Flurry of Misses" problems, albeit less so when you're buffed with Wraithstrike).

A level of Conjurer for Abrupt Jaunt is probably the easiest means you have of accessing a swift/immediate action teleport. You can also use the Martial Wizard variant to get a Fighter feat out of the deal, and a few spell slots to spend on Benign Transposition or Stand don't hurt.

[jokeaccount]

Well as described above I'm using my swift action to cast Wraithstrike so I can't really gain anything from abrupt jaunt. Also unfortunately i'm NE aligned so no monk tricks here (and I wouldn't like taking monk levels either way). Generally i'm looking for either a 3 level dip or a 2 level dip and a crazy good fighter feat (better than Gr. TWF).

[Darrin]

Seconding Totemist 2 for the move-action dimension door.

Duskblade 5 adds two swift-action teleports: stand and dimension hop. Duskblade 1 adds stand as a swift-action teleport. Put stand in a wand chamber (100 GP, Dungeonscape) and you're always a free action + swift action away from a full attack: drop prone (free action) + stand (swift action) = Shadow Pounce.

Psychic Warrior 4 adds hustle, and you can add the psionic dimension hop with Expanded Knowledge. Or get them both with Ardent 2 + Freedom mantle.

[jokeaccount]

I guess its my fault for making the opening post a wall of text:
I'm looking for:
-Up to a 3 level dip.
-No need of move action teleports. Boots of swift passage cover that
-I have a lot of teleports to execute per day as sla/su. At least 10.
-I need my swift actions to cast Wraithstrike

There's no point in suggesting Totemist or classes of more than 3 levels.

[ILM]

Do you want to be able to do more stuff (versatility), or do you want to be better at what you already do (i.e. murderizing hapless enemies)?

Also, since when is dimension hop a swift action cast?

[Heliomance]

I guess its my fault for making the opening post a wall of text:
I'm looking for:
-Up to a 3 level dip.
-No need of move action teleports. Boots of swift passage cover that
-I have a lot of teleports to execute per day as sla/su. At least 10.
-I need my swift actions to cast Wraithstrike

There's no point in suggesting Totemist or classes of more than 3 levels.

The thing about Blink Shirt is that it's at-will, whereas I'm pretty sure that the Boots of Swift Passage are uses per day. Totemist would also grant you a bunch of natural attacks to add to your pounce.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The thing about Blink Shirt is that it's at-will, whereas I'm pretty sure that the Boots of Swift Passage are uses per day. Totemist would also grant you a bunch of natural attacks to add to your pounce.

Almost all soulmelds that grant natural attacks need to be bound to the Totem chakra, so they conflict with Blink Shirt.
Those that don't require the dragonblood subtype (Dragon Claws, Dragon Tail), don't work with his TWF (Dragon Claws) or are dragon magazine content (Chaos Roc's Wings) which isn't on his list of allowed sources afaik.

So the only thing he'd get out of it would be either Blink Shirt or one natural attack and a bunch of minor skill boosts and weak special abilities.

Not to say that a Totemist doesn't make an awesome shadowpouncer, but you're going to have to build it that way from the start. A 2 level dip after the fact won't help much.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I'll admit I don't know the first thing about the Shadow Walker (except that his trick doesn't work in stick figure comics), but you could always just take one or three more levels of rogue. You're not getting any new tricks, which is the huge downside here, but you are getting a substantial bonus to sneak attacking from your shadows... [/but you thought of that already]

[Darrin]

Also, since when is dimension hop a swift action cast?

Sorry, I got it confused with the psionic version.

For most Shadow Pounce builds, you want to be able to pull off the Shadow Pounce Trifecta: standard action, move action, and swift action teleports all in the same round for three full attacks. Yes, I saw the OP mention wraithstrike takes up his swift, but that's a trade-off you may want to consider (giving up the wraithstrike for another full attack), or you may run out of 2nd level spell slots.

For TWF, I like to load up on Travel Devotion, but again, this eats up your swift action. I'm also quite fond of Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook), but you'd need Combat Reflexes for that.

Hmm... might want to do something with Spring Attack, but it only works with TWF if you get hustle (which, again, sucks up that swift action). Ardent 2 works best for that, but this doesn't really work with Shadow Pounce.

[Dread_Head]

More levels of TFSL don't hurt but the spells he gets are boring and borderline useless. Also the next ability after Shadow Pounce, Shadow Discorporation, is very situational and I'm afraid with the enemies we're fighting it will be almost impossible to pull off.

I just looked and the third level spells are admittedly garbage but you should be getting some use out of the level 1 and 2 spells? There are lots of powerful spells at reduced levels there. Well if you think the conditions are unlikely to be suitable for Shadow Discorporation then make them more so. Take TFSL 2 then Warlock 1 for the Darkness invocation, hey presto any time you die from damage you have a reasonable chance to survive instead.

A different suggestion, you should qualify for Swiftblade (provided Haste was one of the spells you chose as a TFSL). You get full BAB, one bonus feat (since you already have spring attack) and a couple of other useful abilities.

[jokeaccount]

The new suggestions are quite interesting:

-As far as wraithstrike goes, i'm using it through a wand so no worries on 2nd level slots.

-Totemist is indeed at will but it still is a DDoor like ability which ends my turn. So using the blink shirt as a move action has no point. And as I said, i have about 10 ddors/shadow jump attempts per day and we dont fight often between rest periods so I don't really need that many teleports.

-Psionics are banned, forgot to mention that...

-Im ok with being more powerful but versatility is always nice. For example I saw somewhere about Drow of the Underdark having some nice feats that make the use of my Darkness spell better. I'll check on that.

-The trifecta of shadow pounce is great but if 60% of my attacks fail there's no point. Better hitting 8/10 than 7/15. Also rolling for 15 attacks is harder on the DM's nerves than rolling for 10.

-The swiftblade is a great idea. Im gonna check it out although iirc its only found online and might be subject to DM ban. We'll see.

-I've thought about progressing rogue but my damage doesn't come fromSA dice. Rather it comes from craven and high strength score. More SA would be cool I dont really care so much about 2 more d6 to be honest.

-Im thinking of going fighter 6 for my next level but I want to find an interesting fighter feat. Gr. TWF is good but boring and might end up being useless

[Darrin]

-Totemist is indeed at will but it still is a DDoor like ability which ends my turn. So using the blink shirt as a move action has no point.


Shadow Pounce is an exception to the "can't take any other actions". So long as you've already done your standard and swift action that round, you can end with Blink Shirt as a move action and still get the full attack.



-The trifecta of shadow pounce is great but if 60% of my attacks fail there's no point. Better hitting 8/10 than 7/15. Also rolling for 15 attacks is harder on the DM's nerves than rolling for 10.


Is Dragon Compendium available? Poison Ring is a simple weapon that you make touch attacks with. Only does 1 damage, but you get sneak attack + Craven on top of that. (Note: may get Banhammered immediately.)

[Demidos]

Maybe something in this thread is useful?
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?66915-Sneak-Attack-Feats-amp-Boosts

Also, Im surprised no one has suggested TOB. Sure, you dont get a lot of the stuff since you're not using standard action attacks and your swifts are mostly taken, but as a crusader you still get stances and the occasional White Raven Tactics when necessary. Plus, when fighting constructs or undead you wont be nearly as effective, so some sort of party-wide buff might be quite useful. Plus a delayed damage pool to lessen your squishiness.

[Dread_Head]

Shadow Pounce is an exception to the "can't take any other actions". So long as you've already done your standard and swift action that round, you can end with Blink Shirt as a move action and still get the full attack.

I think he is using DD as a standard action to trigger Shadow Pounce, so he can't do so with his move action as well.

[ILM]

Also, Im surprised no one has suggested TOB.
That would be because

Things to keep in mind:
-Most books are usable except for Tome of Battle and weird ones like Oriental Adventures, or campaign specific (like Demonweb Pits). Also, no online material.

[jokeaccount]

-Yes im using DDoor for my standard action so my move action tp must not end my turn.

-ToB banned indeed as is anything from Dragon Magazine so that should include the compedium. However I hadn't thought of abusing extra 'small' attacks to deal full sneak attack damage. I'm gonna do some research on that.

-I found some interesting feats on that list, especially the one that treats others flat footed seems interesting. Many however require forgoing high SA dice numbers that I dont have :(