Loki-Inspired Trickster/Fool Class?

[Mr. Mask]

I had an interesting idea for a character class, earlier, and I wanted to discuss the idea to see if there's much like it out there, and if it's worth developing. Note that I'm not thinking of this for a particular system, it's just a system-neutral idea.

The concept is essentially a Loki-inspired Trickster/Jester/Fool. A serial prankster you might say. The more essential concept is the idea of a class that lets your players be mischievous without breaking the game, and possibly garnering power by successfully entertaining those around them.


A game called King of Dragon Pass had the priests of Euramal or something, who were tricksters who generally caused trouble. However, they also did awesome stuff, like teaching a dragon to play dice then winning a sizeable chunk of its hoard through gambling. This is also an inspiration. That along with historical fools and jesters.

Something to note here, is the leniency often offered a jester. They were allowed to be rude, to not adhere to social standards, and were sometimes even expected to criticize the king or queen (Elizabeth is said to have criticized her jester for not being critical enough of her). That is, they can get away with this, so long as they're amusing. If a jester goes too far, he might get booted, whipped, or even killed, and frankly no one much would likely care if such happened. So the jester has a unique position, of being expected to walk that sort of knife-edge. This inspired me with a few possible abilities:

Detect Sense of Humour: Like the Paladin's Detect Evil, the jester would likely have a power to estimate how far he can go with certain people before getting suitably flogged or punished. This doesn't need to be like Detect Evil, it might just be a skill roll that helps the jester to determine when to sing, and when to shut up.


Reward for Funny Pranks: As I alluded, the jester is known for their tricks and rude jokes. If they succeed at entertaining NPCs, and especially players at the table, then they can get points which help them to utilize their more magical abilities.

Failing pranks are good too: However, something important I would add, is that a jester will generally roll for their pranks. If these fail, then the prank is expected to backfire in an amusing way. If the player succeeds in amusing the audience, with a successful prank, or one that fails and gives them their comeuppance, they still receive the points. A failed prank could include things like the knight seeing you were about to tie a roast chicken to his cape, then he chases the jester around the castle in a Benny Hill fashion with his sword, or the jester trying to placate the knight by managing to stuff most of the entire chicken into his own mouth. This is important, so the player doesn't feel they have a licence to annoy everyone, but rather can fail as much as they like, but will still progress if people are amused.


Negotiator and Spy: Despite being considered something of an idiot, the jester can be very smart and cunning. Moreover, the jester can talk to some people in ways no one else can, who no one else can really reach. Sometimes, people will underestimate the jester and not care if he overhears certain things. Their relationship with the jester might be different from that with anyone else, where they'll hear criticism or bluntness they would allow no one else to give. Mechanically, this'd be something like the Jester gets less penalties for trying to convince the target of absurd ideas. If the adventurer suggests he be given the princess' hand in marriage, he might be thrown out, but the king might hear the jester's amusing opinion of this without punishing him. And if there is any chance of the king giving the princess to the adventurer, the jester might just manage to convince him.

And even Dragons: Like the example of King of Dragon Pass, the Jester might be able to also negotiate with creatures and peoples who would kill adventurers on sight. Or, simply infiltrate the bandit's lair as a wandering fool, who proceeds to entertain them. In some settings, dragons might be a bit much, but the general idea is the jester's seemingly idiotic fearlessness takes creatures off guard, and they tend to see what he's up to before attacking. You see a few examples of this is fiction, where the joker character manages to get friendly with the bad guys before betraying them.


Tricks and Spells: A magical trickster could probably pull off some minor mind tricks and illusions. He could convince someone that the right way to the castle is to the left (when it's to the right), or be very good at cheating at dice. The list goes on, where many of the tricks Loki and other famous tricksters have pulled could be inspirations for spells and powers.


Anyone have thoughts to add to this class idea?

[Surpriser]

Well, D&D 3.5 already has a few options if you want to play a character like this. Each of these classes can easily combined/refluffed/adapted to suit the archetype you describe:
- Jester (Dragon Mag): Probably the best fit, this class has abilities that literally make enemies underestimate you because they think you are a fool.
- Arcane Trickster: A blend of rogues and arcane casters, offers a few abilities that are suited for pranks.
- Factotum: Can be anything and anyone on a whim's notice. Pranking and fooling people - sure!
- Spellthief: Steal the magic from other casters and use them for your own goals.
- Temple Raider of Olidammara: The divine version of this archetype.

Other system probably have similar archetypes.

In my opinion, such a character does not fit into all gaming groups and settings. In a light, comedic campaign, it can be a lot of fun, but in a rather serious, darker game, there is no room for it (the fact that a player wants to play such a PC should tip off the DM that there might be a conflict of expectations, actually)

[sktarq]

but in a rather serious, darker game, there is no room for it (the fact that a player wants to play such a PC should tip off the DM that there might be a conflict of expectations, actually)
I disagree but the sense of humor has to match. The humor has to have more bite for example.

[Mr. Mask]

I was actually thinking the jester might work better in a rather serious game. One where their antics would be more notable. Of course, there are a few pitfalls that need to be considered with the class:

1) Spotlight hog. The player might use their powers and the incentive to wrack up jokester points as a reason to hog the spotlight. To stop the point incentive being too strong, you could cap it, so they can't have more than three points at a time.

2) PvP. The jester might annoy the other players too much through pranks or tricks, feeling it's the in character thing to do. I'd consider giving the other players a resistance bonus against the jester's tricks and pranks, since they're used to him trying to pull them. Alternatively, you could have them get a bonus for each prank the jester tries to pull on them, the bonus potentially wearing off over time.

3) Take out the seriousness. You might be concerned the jester will never allow for a serious moment. Partially, I think that depends on the players involved. If they like to talk over the game, I don't think the jester will be able to effect it more than the players do. In fact, being able to act out their jovial disinterest might make them more interested. If the players want to take the game seriously, it's likely the jester will too, and will keep his quips in character.


New idea for an ability

Fool's Courage: The jester is able to act brave, even when he is scared. When rolling for morale, the Jester appears as though he rolled +5 points higher than he actually did (but still takes morale penalties associated with his actual roll).

[Surpriser]

A failed prank could include things like the knight seeing you were about to tie a roast chicken to his cape, then he chases the jester around the castle in a Benny Hill fashion with his sword, or the jester trying to placate the knight by managing to stuff most of the entire chicken into his own mouth.
This right here is an example of something that IMHO does NOT fit into a serious game (neither the prank nor the reaction).

Of course, humor has its place even in the darkest of campaigns. After all, we game to have fun. It is the thin line between "funny" and "silly" that should not be crossed in such a game.
Mechanics similar to those described CAN work very well, but invite behaviour likely to cross that line. This is for a similar reason why Kenders are often banned in D&D (at least, from what I read on these forums) - the description of the race basically says "You have no concept of property. If you want something, take it", which is used as an excuse to steal anything from anyone, NPCs and party members alike.
If a player came to me with a concept like this, and I were planning to run a campaign with mostly serious and dark tones (or any kind of Call of Cthulhu game), then I would have to know the player really well and know that they could make their character fit the theme before I allowed it.

EDIT: You actually touched my point in your previous post.


1) Spotlight hog. The player might use their powers and the incentive to wrack up jokester points as a reason to hog the spotlight. To stop the point incentive being too strong, you could cap it, so they can't have more than three points at a time.

2) PvP. The jester might annoy the other players too much through pranks or tricks, feeling it's the in character thing to do. I'd consider giving the other players a resistance bonus against the jester's tricks and pranks, since they're used to him trying to pull them. Alternatively, you could have them get a bonus for each prank the jester tries to pull on them, the bonus potentially wearing off over time.

These are out-of-game problems. Fixing them via in-game rules will probably not have the desired effect.
A player interested in playing a jokester most likely cares more about playing pranks on others than about the mechanical effects.



3) Take out the seriousness. You might be concerned the jester will never allow for a serious moment. Partially, I think that depends on the players involved. If they like to talk over the game, I don't think the jester will be able to effect it more than the players do. In fact, being able to act out their jovial disinterest might make them more interested. If the players want to take the game seriously, it's likely the jester will too, and will keep his quips in character.
Exactly: It depends on the players. See my Kender example above. Sure, there are players who are able to play a Kender in a functional way, but for those interested in disrupting behaviour, Kender serves as a great excuse ("It's what my character would do"). And the same is true for a jester class that is rewarded for pranking others.

[Quertus]

1) Spotlight hog. The player might use their powers and the incentive to wrack up jokester points as a reason to hog the spotlight. To stop the point incentive being too strong, you could cap it, so they can't have more than three points at a time.

2) PvP. The jester might annoy the other players too much through pranks or tricks, feeling it's the in character thing to do. I'd consider giving the other players a resistance bonus against the jester's tricks and pranks, since they're used to him trying to pull them. Alternatively, you could have them get a bonus for each prank the jester tries to pull on them, the bonus potentially wearing off over time.


These are out-of-game problems. Fixing them via in-game rules will probably not have the desired effect.
A player interested in playing a jokester most likely cares more about playing pranks on others than about the mechanical effects.

First, this character sounds like they will "take the spotlight" in much the same way that a Face character will - ie, they will shine in social situations... and perhaps more just "be there" in other situations. Although they probably will make the mundane (cooking, shopping, sleeping) more... interesting... in ways the Face would not. If you know the player, know the group, and know this will work, great. If not, it's something to discuss with the group.

More important to discuss with the group, IMO, is the extent to which the jester will be pranking the party, and how comfortable the other players are with that.

Although I probably wouldn't make a huge system for it, I agree with the idea of giving the party a set bonus vs the Jester on the grounds of being used to it. But if this, rather than a social contract, is the only thing making the Jester OK to play, you can run into problems when one of the characters dies and is replaced, a new player joins etc.

[Mr. Mask]

Surpriser: Ran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ran_(film)) not serious enough for you :smalltongue:? I was thinking of a scene a little like that, where the court entertainer was chased around the castle after ticking off a samurai. Tying a chicken to a cape, and stuffing much of it in your own mouth, seem plausible within a medieval setting's humour for a jester. Though more normal would be rude jokes.

I feel the case of Kenders demonstrates how poor mechanics were more to blame than the players. The mechanics gave the license to misbehave, but gave no real disincentive from such behaviour. In the jester's case, I feel mechanics like rewarding them for failing spectacularly and making their own comeuppance would help to counteract the spirit of, "I'm the invincible jester who gets to annoy everyone and you can't do anything to me," also, the implied lore that the jester is walking the knife's edge, where they're expected to joke around and such, but there is little they can do if someone gets annoyed and decides to have them flogged or executed, or kicks them to teach them a lesson. The jester is in a position where they can more easily misbehave towards others, but they're also in a position where no one will much care if they get beaten should they overstep their bounds.

The GM can use that, and be upfront with the player. If the jester overacts, and annoys a noble, the jester would probably get to make a save to try and placate the noble from punishing him too much, and such instances would reinforce this idea to the player, that they have to know how far to push things before things push back.



Quertus: I'd probably rule it that once the jester has attempted two or three pranks which included the target player, or after they spent an in-game week with the jester, they get the anti-jester bonus. I do agree that if the party has little social contract to keep the jester in line, the mechanics will have trouble doing so, but I feel that in that scenario it will be difficult to coexist regardless of class.

It's true that the Jester is primarily a Face type character, liable to have their moments to shine while being less prominent in the rest of the adventure. The differences being, as you point out, they're likely to also have moments at times like around the camp fire, hopefully to create interesting moments and party interactions. Further, with a creative and mischievous party, they might even pull some fairy-tale level shenanigans where they mislead the army of orcs so they attack and loot their own camp, or the aforementioned gambling with dragons. Some of that trickster utility would make the jester fun for a creative party.



I'm wondering if there's much more thought the class needs, aside from detailing the elements I've described to a system.