Supergirl The Series

[Ranxerox]

It seems strange that this doesn't already have a thread. I would have thought that it would have got one back when it was announced or at least once it got a trailer. Well, comic book based TV shows have become common enough that the mere hint of one is no longer sufficient to award it a thread here. Still, now that we have a first episode, IMHO it needs a thread. So voilà! Here it is.

Now about that first episode ... it's kinda of meh. They did a good job picking the lead actress and the action scenes were pretty good. Also I found myself quickly hating Cat Grant, and since that was the idea, mission accomplished. On the other hand, the story felt rushed, the most of the characters came off two dimensional and there were plot holes that you could fly an giant, extradiminsional prison through. In other words all pretty standard pilot episode faults.

However, since Supergirl has Greg Berlanti, of Arrow and Flash fame, producing it, the chances of it turning into a compelling, superhero themed show seem pretty good. So, I plan to keep watching, and hopefully soon we will all be waiting in impatiently for the next episode so we can find out what happens next.

[Mando Knight]

I missed it because of prior engagements, but the nice thing about it airing on CBS is that CBS lets you stream episodes on demand, if you're willing to put up with commercials.

[Clertar]

Me and the missus could hardly watch it past the first half. It got worse and worse, so did the characters, their dynamics, and the FX.

It's a bad Xena in the 2010s.

[The Troubadour]

It got worse and worse, so did the characters, their dynamics, and the FX.

Hear, hear. To rub salt in the wound, it tried to be "feminist" and just ended up being sexist.
Still, I'm hoping it will improve as it goes on, even if it takes half a season or so.

[NotScaryBats]

I thought it was pretty okay. What giant plot holes are you talking about?

For me, it just seems so incredibly derivative of Superman, like, they're constantly talking about him that she still, like usual, just feels like "Superman, but younger and weaker and a girl"

[Clertar]

For me, it just seems so incredibly derivative of Superman, like, they're constantly talking about him that she still, like usual, just feels like "Superman, but younger and weaker and a girl"

What's worst is that they don't have the rights to name Superman. They never use this word, it's always "the hero", "him, "he", "my cousin", "the big guy".... and it makes what you say even worse xD

[Kitten Champion]

What's worst is that they don't have the rights to name Superman. They never use this word, it's always "the hero", "him, "he", "my cousin", "the big guy".... and it makes what you say even worse xD

Ya'know, that never occurred to me. I watched the leaked pilot months ago and discussed it at some length on here. I thought his presentation in the show was... odd. His presence is felt throughout the show in the script but he doesn't really show up outside of a brief silhouette shot early on. I assumed it was because they wanted to keep the focus on the titular hero while reminding the audience of her connection to her more popular cousin... and somehow they decided upon this as some kind of compromise. Legal constraints though? That makes sense.

[NotScaryBats]

I don't know why they can't just have it be Supergirl. She could be an interesting character, and the "monster of the week until the final boss" that they seem to be going for can make for an amusing series. To hang it upon the coattails of someone who isn't even in the show is just such a bizarre choice. It would be like if they spun off a series for Buffy's little sister, set it in Sunnytown, and were constantly talking about how much Buffy changed the world, and how wonderful she was. It just makes you think "okay, well why aren't I watching a show about Buffy instead?"

[Ranxerox]

I thought it was pretty okay. What giant plot holes are you talking about?



Well, the biggest one is the giant space prison. The prisoners that escaped from it have been running for roughly a decade and they have neither been rounded up by Superman or come to the attention of the public. From what we see in the pilot, the government isn't able to handle them and even if it was they could just go somewhere in which the government was weaker and set up shop there. If they are deliberately keeping a low profile in order to avoid Superman, first you have to ask why since there are so many of them they should be able to beat him by numbers alone and second you need to why they would risk attracting his attention by attacking his cousin. Sure maybe Vartox has no self control, but you would think her aunt would better. Don't blow your cover on petty revenge; complete whatever big scheme you are working on and then kill the relatives from a position of power.

[LibraryOgre]

I think that, to an extent, she's going through what a lot of people go through when they have a family member who is a NAME. People wondering if you're like your cousin (or your brother, or your mom, or whoever has the fame in the family), and approaching you on that level, first, before they get to know you, yourself, for who you are and what you can do.

I like that they included how they're going to get the monster of the week in the pilot... Smallville had the somewhat contrived "Kryptonite made them" in the first season, but this provides some impetus. I'm not a fan of the final semi-reveal, but I'm willing to give them some rope to either tie me down or hang themselves, whichever they choose.

[JadedDM]

What's worst is that they don't have the rights to name Superman. They never use this word, it's always "the hero", "him, "he", "my cousin", "the big guy".... and it makes what you say even worse xD
They have the rights. Unlike with Marvel, where the rights of different characters are split up among different studios, for DC that is not the case. WB has full rights of all DC characters for television and movies.

In fact, they do say 'Superman' in the show. At the very beginning. "...I was still a 13 year old girl, but in that same time, my cousin Kal-El had grown up and revealed himself to your world...as Superman, the most powerful man in the universe."

Kitten Champion was right, I think. The reason they went out of their way not to name-drop Superman was because this is Kara's show, and don't want to overly focus on him instead.

[Fragenstein]

I want to know what's up with the cool, tall, good-looking, strong-shoulder-to-cry-on Jimmy Olsen? That is so not what his character is about.

By the way -- Danvers? I know that Kara has had a multitude of both identities and origin stories as DC tries to work her into a major property, but is the last name of Danvers common for her?

Or was that a shot at Marvel for passing on Carol being given her own movie?

[The Troubadour]

It's common. Back in pre-Crisis continuity, her Kryptonian name was Kara In-Ze, but her adopted Earthling name was Linda Lee Danvers. Post-Crisis, when the Matrix Supergirl fused with a regular human being to save her life, said human was named Linda Danvers, as a nod to the pre-Crisis Supergirl.

I've read that Miss Marvel's name of "Carol Danvers" was a deliberate play on "Kara Danvers", but I can't provide any substantiation.

[BannedInSchool]

I want to know what's up with the cool, tall, good-looking, strong-shoulder-to-cry-on Jimmy Olsen? That is so not what his character is about.
You have a problem with a cameraboy being those things? :smallwink:

[Lizard Lord]

I want to know what's up with the cool, tall, good-looking, strong-shoulder-to-cry-on Jimmy Olsen? That is so not what his character is about.



^This was actually my biggest complaint. I feel like the actor they chose for love interest #1 (whatever his name is) is a better choice for Jimmy Olsen than the guy they actually got to play him.


On the other hand did said love interest #1 really say "You're a lesbian. That's why you're not into me."? :smallannoyed:

[Kitten Champion]

It's common. Back in pre-Crisis continuity, her Kryptonian name was Kara In-Ze, but her adopted Earthling name was Linda Lee Danvers. Post-Crisis, when the Matrix Supergirl fused with a regular human being to save her life, said human was named Linda Danvers, as a nod to the pre-Crisis Supergirl.

I've read that Miss Marvel's name of "Carol Danvers" was a deliberate play on "Kara Danvers", but I can't provide any substantiation.

I think it's likely. The original Captain Marvel comics are sort of a dark reflection of the Superman premise, where the titular hero is working for a covert alien invasion force and was sort of an anti-hero at times. I could easily see adopting a variation on her name as being part of the author's sense of humour.

[Fragenstein]

You have a problem with a cameraboy being those things? :smallwink:

Nah, Cameraboy can be a sexy as he 'wanna be. But Jimmy is supposed to be the 'pal' who doesn't overshadow the hero. He's not supposed to be cooler than the "S", regardless of who wears it.

Are people really that bored with a pre-Steel John Henry Irons that they couldn't have thrown him in somewhere instead? I mean, if they feel Supergirl should be so inept that Jimmy Olsen is teaching her how to be a superhero, why not someone who's character background might actually live up to the task?

[Thinker]

However, since Supergirl has Greg Berlanti, of Arrow and Flash fame, producing it, the chances of it turning into a compelling, superhero themed show seem pretty good. So, I plan to keep watching, and hopefully soon we will all be waiting in impatiently for the next episode so we can find out what happens next.

I never felt compelled to watch Arrow or Flash. I gave each a full season since I'm in to super heroes, but they both came off as being riddled with teenage angst and drama. That would be fine if these weren't supposed to mostly be mature adults.

[LibraryOgre]

Nah, Cameraboy can be a sexy as he 'wanna be. But Jimmy is supposed to be the 'pal' who doesn't overshadow the hero. He's not supposed to be cooler than the "S", regardless of who wears it.


That's when he's dealing with the Blue Boy. There's been plenty of times (I'm thinking the Superman cartoon, especially) where he's been contrasted against Kara as relative equals. There's definitely a different dynamic with a semi-experienced James giving Kara superheroing advice... but, also, how long will that last? How long until he turns into a general confidant, one of three people (aside from her parents and Kal) who know her secret?

[The Troubadour]

On the other hand did said love interest #1 really say "You're a lesbian. That's why you're not into me."? :smallannoyed:

Yes. That's why I hope to hell he's NOT going to end up as her love interest.

[Lizard Lord]

Yes. That's why I hope to hell he's NOT going to end up as her love interest.

On that same subject, can anyone explain to be why she decided to randomly reveal her secret identity to this guy? They never seemed particularly close (I only peg him as a potential love interest because he seems into her) or anything and if she just needed an ally then Jimmy Olsen James, the guy that has experience being a kryptonian ally, would have made a better choice.

[Kitten Champion]

On that same subject, can anyone explain to be why she decided to randomly reveal her secret identity to this guy? They never seemed particularly close (I only peg him as a potential love interest because he seems into her) or anything and if she just needed an ally then Jimmy Olsen James, the guy that has experience being a kryptonian ally, would have made a better choice.

It was to have a moment to put into the advertising.

Sure, you could think of a reason to put there, but there simply wasn't enough development of their relationship within the first 15 minutes of the pilot to imply much depth behind the decision. It's part of the "were gonna do all the cliches, by God" the pilot seemed bent on.

[Reddish Mage]

They chose to do a series where Supergirl would share a world with Superman but get her own plotline (and I do believe Superman cannot actually appear as part of their agreement with DC). They had to bring in someone from Superman's crowd to keep continuity.

The choice to make Olson a cool big hunk that dispenses wisdom and stability is novel, but it works well with what they are trying to do.

Whether awkward girl coming into her own was the best portrayal of Supergirl is another discussion entirely...

[The Troubadour]

Whether awkward girl coming into her own was the best portrayal of Supergirl is another discussion entirely...

I don't think the problem is necessarily with the premise. As cliché as it is, I could see it being done well. But yeah, it's interesting that out of all the established portrayals of Supergirl in the comics, they chose to go with this one.

[Rogar Demonblud]

What, you really didn't expect an origin story as soon as they mentioned they were doing a Supergirl series?

[brionl]

I never felt compelled to watch Arrow or Flash. I gave each a full season since I'm in to super heroes, but they both came off as being riddled with teenage angst and drama. That would be fine if these weren't supposed to mostly be mature adults.

I haven't watched more than a couple of episodes of Arrow, but I've watched most of the first season of Flash. That's the exact same feeling that I have about the show. I want to watch a superhero show, not Metropolis 90210.

[Starbuck_II]

Well, the biggest one is the giant space prison. The prisoners that escaped from it have been running for roughly a decade and they have neither been rounded up by Superman or come to the attention of the public. From what we see in the pilot, the government isn't able to handle them and even if it was they could just go somewhere in which the government was weaker and set up shop there. If they are deliberately keeping a low profile in order to avoid Superman, first you have to ask why since there are so many of them they should be able to beat him by numbers alone and second you need to why they would risk attracting his attention by attacking his cousin. Sure maybe Vartox has no self control, but you would think her aunt would better. Don't blow your cover on petty revenge; complete whatever big scheme you are working on and then kill the relatives from a position of power.

Well, #1, you need time on earth to charge your solar batteries. It took Superman mostly his teen hood before he had enough to regularly do it.

#2, you need time to control super powers.

If someone just arrives to earth, it would be unrealistic to instantly be super powerful and in control.

[theNater]

On that same subject, can anyone explain to be why she decided to randomly reveal her secret identity to this guy? They never seemed particularly close (I only peg him as a potential love interest because he seems into her) or anything and if she just needed an ally then Jimmy Olsen James, the guy that has experience being a kryptonian ally, would have made a better choice.
She wanted somebody to be excited for her. Her sister wasn't, her boss wouldn't be, James' contact with Superman takes the excitement out. Who else is there?

[RossN]

I'm biased as a long time Supergirl fan but I thought that was a lot of fun. :smallsmile: Melissa Benoist is wonderfully likable and enthusiastic.

It was rushed and a little corny and in Kara's place I'd probably have been far harder on her sister but I think it will settle into a groove.

[Sliver]

Well, #1, you need time on earth to charge your solar batteries. It took Superman mostly his teen hood before he had enough to regularly do it.

#2, you need time to control super powers.

If someone just arrives to earth, it would be unrealistic to instantly be super powerful and in control.

You mean like Zod, in that Man of Steel movie? :smallamused:

[Reddish Mage]

Well, #1, you need time on earth to charge your solar batteries. It took Superman mostly his teen hood before he had enough to regularly do it.

#2, you need time to control super powers.

If someone just arrives to earth, it would be unrealistic to instantly be super powerful and in control.


You mean like Zod, in that Man of Steel movie? :smallamused:

After extensive analysis of the science behind Superman's (and Supergirl's) powers, I have been able to positively conclude that the powers of Kryptonians on Earth develop precisely at the speed of plot.

[Olinser]

I want to know what's up with the cool, tall, good-looking, strong-shoulder-to-cry-on Jimmy Olsen? That is so not what his character is about.

By the way -- Danvers? I know that Kara has had a multitude of both identities and origin stories as DC tries to work her into a major property, but is the last name of Danvers common for her?

Or was that a shot at Marvel for passing on Carol being given her own movie?

Point of order - Marvel did NOT pass, a Captain Marvel movie was announced over a year ago (along with a number of other Marvel movies) with a release date of late 2018 and has already been confirmed to be Carol Danvers.

[Dragonus45]

You mean like Zod, in that Man of Steel movie? :smallamused:

Sort of, they did treat Zod being able to master his own senses through sheer willpower and discipline as a plot point and something of a unique character trait to show how dedicated he was.


Point of order - Marvel did NOT pass, a Captain Marvel movie was announced over a year ago (along with a number of other Marvel movies) with a release date of late 2018 and has already been confirmed to be Carol Danvers.

Well they did push it back to give space for the Ant man and Wasp movie.

[LoP]

Mixed feelings about the pilot so far. Its a pilot, so it gets a lot of leeway... I love my some Supergirl, and the acting so far has been pretty good. The casting of Jimmy is... interesting, so why not? Seems fresh and new, and he's pretty to look at and listen to so I don't mind.

But the rest of it didn't feel fresh OR new. It felt like... well, like a throwback. 90's era genre TV, though done decently well. I'll keep watching; its entertaining enough as is, as light and simple and uncomplicated fare. If it improves, even better. Though I can see it sliding into trying-hard-to-be-feminist-its-offensive territory like what's his face's stupid Wonder Woman attempt, the guy who did Ally McBeal and thinks "feminism" is women in positions of power but still insecure about their breasts or not having friends.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well they did push it back to give space for the Ant man and Wasp movie.

No, Marvel first pushed the movie back to make room for yet another Spiderman movie, and then later delayed it again for Ant-Man and the Wasp. I'm fairly certain Captain Marvel will be delayed again once something else comes up.

[AGD]

Why is Supergirl a female Clark Kent in this Show?

I haven't read much comics, but isn't Supergirl an Alien, who is a bit more angry and unscrupulously than Superman and has Problems with adjusting to earth, because it is so unrecognizable to Krypton. This Supergirl seems to be "Superman, but female" with the Reporter-Job and the mild personality.

[TheEmerged]

Why is Supergirl a female Clark Kent in this Show?

I haven't read much comics, but isn't Supergirl an Alien, who is a bit more angry and unscrupulously than Superman and has Problems with adjusting to earth, because it is so unrecognizable to Krypton. This Supergirl seems to be "Superman, but female" with the Reporter-Job and the mild personality.

Except when she's a figment of Jimmy Olson's imagination, given form by a magic lantern.

Except when she's Clark's cousin, from the city of Argo which survived Krypton's explosion thanks to one city actually believing Jor-El's predictions and making necessary precautions.

Except when she's an alien shapeshifter that's in love with Lex Luthor Junior (who is actually a clone of Lex Luthor).

Except when she's an earth-born angel.

Except when she's a college-aged coed whose powers are almost as mystical as superhuman.

Except when her secret identity is that of a long-haired brunette adult, who isfamous soap star actress known for her beauty.

Except when she's a teenager who considers herself a wallflower and whines to her cat about not getting a date to the dance.

Except when she's an otherwise popular teenager who is friends with the outcast Lucy Thorul (and yes, it's that obvious).

....

To say it more flatly, the definition of "Supergirl Is..." has had more permutations over the years than I have pairs of shoes at home and almost as many as I have hats on my hatrack :smallredface: What's one more?

[AGD]

To say it more flatly, the definition of "Supergirl Is..." has had more permutations over the years than I have pairs of shoes at home and almost as many as I have hats on my hatrack What's one more?

Yeah, that seems to be a general problem with some characters. Wonder Woman has also not that much of a consistent Characterization, as far as I know.

[Thialfi]

Keeping with the "Supergirl is" theme;

The second season of the Flash introduced parallel universes and Earth-2 specifically. The shows have the same producer. I wonder if they will ever bring in Power Girl.

[LibraryOgre]

Keeping with the "Supergirl is" theme;

The second season of the Flash introduced parallel universes and Earth-2 specifically. The shows have the same producer. I wonder if they will ever bring in Power Girl.

Oh, heck, we've only seen the pilot of The Flash and I already saw Negative Flash...

[BannedInSchool]

Oh, so I saw the second episode now. Not overall painfully bad, but disappointingly executed because the underlying story seems fine to me, but the dialog just beats us to death with it.

[Avilan the Grey]

Maybe it's because I'm not a native English speaker but the dialogue isn't bad to me.
I quite like the show, I must say. I hope it will hold my interest longer than Gotham.

[BannedInSchool]

Maybe it's because I'm not a native English speaker but the dialogue isn't bad to me.
Maybe it's just me, but a couple times the dialogue wasn't exactly bad, just reiterating what had already been established before by other dialogue or the action. I was expecting some development and got what I already had been told and found it a little annoying, like they just didn't trust they were already conveying the story and needed to make sure the audience got it as unsubtly as possible. :smalltongue:

ETA: An additional thought. Maybe it would have played better for me if Kara had started off more cockily confident. I know what she was saying was along those lines, but it still seemed to me like she wanted to prove herself, both to others and herself. That left her not as far to go to realizing she actually wasn't ready than if she had started really believing she had it all in hand, no problems, and why it seemed to me the same ground was being covered. In that case it would be an acting/directing problem, not the script. I've also been watching too many movie/TV reviews and analyses. :smallwink:

[themaque]

The show is fine to me. I don't LOVE it like I do the Flash but I don't hate it like I Smallville. I can understand and get behind their Supergirl.

The only part of this show I find annoying is her Sister. I just can't understand her thought process or her reactions most times.

Example
In the second episode they take Kara to the Krypto room where her sister kicks her but. The sister then tells her that Yes, she has super powers, but so does everyone else she is fighting. She needs to be MORE than just raw strength. I thought that was fantastic and made total sense coming from someone with her background.

Then it was immediately shown to be a somewhat a lie. She didn't want to do that at all but her boss made her? Does the sister contribute anything other than whining? A filter for her boss?

[Chen]

The show is fine to me. I don't LOVE it like I do the Flash but I don't hate it like I Smallville. I can understand and get behind their Supergirl.

The only part of this show I find annoying is her Sister. I just can't understand her thought process or her reactions most times.

Example
In the second episode they take Kara to the Krypto room where her sister kicks her but. The sister then tells her that Yes, she has super powers, but so does everyone else she is fighting. She needs to be MORE than just raw strength. I thought that was fantastic and made total sense coming from someone with her background.

Then it was immediately shown to be a somewhat a lie. She didn't want to do that at all but her boss made her? Does the sister contribute anything other than whining? A filter for her boss?

For someone with as little training as her she sure does well fighting against hardened criminals. And you know, her aunt. I mean it's as if my sister was kicking the ass of random hardened criminals and/or military officers. These people are also Kryptonian. How is she standing any chance fighting them? I mean come to think of it, Clark has the same issue in Man of Steel. Consider it never shows him doing any type of martial arts or anything, yet he's perfectly capable of standing toe to toe with Zod who is a military man and presumably has SOME unarmed combat training.

[Ranxerox]

I thought the second episode was a nice improvement over the first. The show seemed to do best when it followed its own advice and kept to doing small things.

IMHO the botched rescuing of the oil tanker, the snake in the tree, the convenience store robbery and ambulance airlift scenes all worked well. It wasn't until they did the Kryptonian brawl that things got cheesy.



For someone with as little training as her she sure does well fighting against hardened criminals. And you know, her aunt. I mean it's as if my sister was kicking the ass of random hardened criminals and/or military officers. These people are also Kryptonian. How is she standing any chance fighting them? I mean come to think of it, Clark has the same issue in Man of Steel. Consider it never shows him doing any type of martial arts or anything, yet he's perfectly capable of standing toe to toe with Zod who is a military man and presumably has SOME unarmed combat training.

Well, Vartox wasn't an actual Kryptonian so he was a bit of a disadvantage, and obviously Kara's aunt not actually a physical badass. An assumption is being made that officers necessarily get the same training as combat troops and come up through the ranks, but maybe all you need on Krypton to become a general is a head for strategy and some family connections. There are places right here on Earth that don't even require the officer to have a head for strategy much less actual combat skills if their family is connected.

[BWR]

The pilot was rocky but episode two was much better. Not great but enjoyable. It still suffers from a little clunky dialogue and pacing (and the sister is rather flat and unconvincing) but on the whole if the show never gets any better than this I will still watch it. I would like it to get better, of course. It's far from flawless but the flaws don't outweigh the fun. Cat Grant is so far the best character. I could nitpick it to hell and back but for once I think I won't.

[JadedDM]

Well, nobody is talking about it, so I thought I'd ask.

As someone who knows even less about DC comics than Marvel I wanted to ask, does anyone have any idea what the hell was up with...

Henshaw's glowy red eyes of doom?

[dancrilis]

Well, nobody is talking about it, so I thought I'd ask.

As someone who knows even less about DC comics than Marvel I wanted to ask, does anyone have any idea what the hell was up with...

Henshaw's glowy red eyes of doom?

You might want to check out his name: Hank Henshaw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Henshaw)

I am not overly fond of this series yet - but will give it a bit longer.

[brionl]

They sure do seem to have a crap-ton of kryptonite floating around. Kryptonite emitting light-bulbs? Hypodermics full of liquid kryptonite?

[TheEmerged]

RE: Henshaw He also seems to be set up as the "enemy mentor" that both Arrow & Flash used (Deathstroke for Arrow, Wells/Reverse Flash for Flash).

[Monkplayer]

You think it will be any good?

[Reddish Mage]

To say it more flatly, the definition of "Supergirl Is..." has had more permutations over the years than I have pairs of shoes at home and almost as many as I have hats on my hatrack :smallredface: What's one more?

Pretty sure "female Clark Kent" was already one on the list.

What's with DC's headline female heroines that they can't keep them straight? I think somethings wrong when, among the A-listers, Cat-Woman has the most consistent characterization, and she can't even settle on whether she's a villain or a heroine.

[Avilan the Grey]

The show is fine to me. I don't LOVE it like I do the Flash but I don't hate it like I Smallville. I can understand and get behind their Supergirl.

The only part of this show I find annoying is her Sister. I just can't understand her thought process or her reactions most times.

Example
In the second episode they take Kara to the Krypto room where her sister kicks her but. The sister then tells her that Yes, she has super powers, but so does everyone else she is fighting. She needs to be MORE than just raw strength. I thought that was fantastic and made total sense coming from someone with her background.

Then it was immediately shown to be a somewhat a lie. She didn't want to do that at all but her boss made her? Does the sister contribute anything other than whining? A filter for her boss?

Well let's see...
De-powering her sister without warning, and in the process showing that the agency has about unlimited access to a material that can kill her... It would piss me off, to say the least.

[themaque]

Well let's see...
De-powering her sister without warning, and in the process showing that the agency has about unlimited access to a material that can kill her... It would piss me off, to say the least.

What upset me was everything she was telling her during the fight was Spot on. I was rooting for the sister thinking "Okay, finally she isn't as bad as I thought!" then she switched to "Waaah why did you make me be mean to my sister! I hate you, you're mean!"

CHEN: as far as Zod goes, he told you why right at the start of the fight. He WANTED to die. That was a suicide run to force Clark to kill him. He wasn't giving it his all to win. I thought Zod was the best part of that movie.

[Chen]

CHEN: as far as Zod goes, he told you why right at the start of the fight. He WANTED to die. That was a suicide run to force Clark to kill him. He wasn't giving it his all to win. I thought Zod was the best part of that movie.

Fair but even when he was fighting the other kryptonians in Kansas he was holding his own against people who were actually trained to fight, despite him basically being a farm boy/bartender. Their strengths seemed pretty similar in those scenes anyways.

[themaque]

Fair but even when he was fighting the other kryptonians in Kansas he was holding his own against people who were actually trained to fight, despite him basically being a farm boy/bartender. Their strengths seemed pretty similar in those scenes anyways.

He was more.. not getting his but killed rather than actually WINNING the fight in Kansas. I'm not one normally for defending the film, but I think that's one of part I can easily just write off. but we are leaving the point of THIS thread.

Kara needs more training. She got one good shot in on her aunt from the ONE move she remembered. It probably only worked because she took her by surprise being so completely outclassed in everything else.

[Reddish Mage]

He was more.. not getting his but killed rather than actually WINNING the fight in Kansas. I'm not one normally for defending the film, but I think that's one of part I can easily just write off.

ATTENTION PLAYGROUND! This thread has gone full blown into the 971st debate on the shortcoming of the Man of Steel movie!


but we are leaving the point of THIS thread.

Kara needs more training. She got one good shot in on her aunt from the ONE move she remembered. It probably only worked because she took her by surprise being so completely outclassed in everything else.

Oh, ah good save. False alarm everyone, you can go back to celebrating the latest episode of My Little Pony. :smalltongue:

[The Troubadour]

Oh, ah good save. False alarm everyone, you can go back to celebrating the latest episode of My Little Pony. :smalltongue:

...Oh, my. I just understood why this show won't let Kara be friends with any other female character, not even her sister. It's because friendship is magic! :-P

[RossN]

...Oh, my. I just understood why this show won't let Kara be friends with any other female character, not even her sister. It's because friendship is magic! :-P

Kara clearly is friends with her sister, even if there is some tough love going on there. Personally I'd have been furious with Alex but Kara's clearly a better person than I am (and not just because she can fly and lift buses).

One thing I loved about this episode was that the show used an aspect of Supergirl that her cousin doesn't have; she remembers Krypton first hand in a way he really doesn't. She's like a first generation immigrant while he is second generation.

[The Troubadour]

Kara clearly is friends with her sister, even if there is some tough love going on there.

I wouldn't classify "constantly tearing each other down and only acting supportive when the other person is past their breaking point" as "tough love", myself.

[RossN]

I wouldn't classify "constantly tearing each other down and only acting supportive when the other person is past their breaking point" as "tough love", myself.

I don't entirely disagree.

Still that's more Alex's problem than Kara's - as I said in Supergirl's place I'd be a lot harder on my secret keeping sister.

[Avilan the Grey]

What upset me was everything she was telling her during the fight was Spot on. I was rooting for the sister thinking "Okay, finally she isn't as bad as I thought!" then she switched to "Waaah why did you make me be mean to my sister! I hate you, you're mean!"

I just don't get this reaction. At all.
Yours that is, not hers.
FIrst of all I think you are reading WAY too much into it, and second I FULLY understand her reaction.

[Reddish Mage]

So I'm torn. Is Alex a bad sister because she keeps the DEO thing secret and deep down loved the fact that her sister wasn't using her powers? Or is she a bad sister because she was so reluctant to totally pwn her sister after ambushing her with kryptonite?

Those seem to cut in opposite directions.

[Avilan the Grey]

So I'm torn. Is Alex a bad sister because she keeps the DEO thing secret and deep down loved the fact that her sister wasn't using her powers? Or is she a bad sister because she was so reluctant to totally pwn her sister after ambushing her with kryptonite?

Those seem to cut in opposite directions.

Not really... And even if they are, it seems very realistic. The Mathematicians answer applies here: Yes.

[themaque]

I just don't get this reaction. At all.
Yours that is, not hers.
FIrst of all I think you are reading WAY too much into it, and second I FULLY understand her reaction.

That may be why we can't seem to understand each other here, because I don't understand her reaction to her boss there at all.


So I'm torn. Is Alex a bad sister because she keeps the DEO thing secret and deep down loved the fact that her sister wasn't using her powers? Or is she a bad sister because she was so reluctant to totally pwn her sister after ambushing her with kryptonite?

Those seem to cut in opposite directions.

Was she a bad sister for wanting her sister to be safe and not really be true to herself? Yes. It wasn't right but understandable. I understand what she had to deal with at that point and it couldn't be easy.

However, for me it's because she was so reluctant to pwn her sister. She's supposed to be a field agent. She knows how hard that is and what they are up against. I can promise you she had to EARN the right to be a field agent. Everything she said about her needing training and while she was kicking her sister's but was 100% true.

I felt her whining to her boss for having to do it took away a layer of competency and intelligence. -shrugs-

She's not worth this much effort however. hopefully I will change my mind.

[The Troubadour]

Still that's more Alex's problem than Kara's - as I said in Supergirl's place I'd be a lot harder on my secret keeping sister.

Alex is worse in that regard than Kara, but Kara doesn't come off smelling like roses, either. Take the pilot, for example: instead of being rightfully angry at Alex for taking part in a sneak attack against her, just for starters, what does she do? She craps on her sister's achievements by first implying, then outright stating the only reason she got her job was because of Kara's Kryptonian heritage.

[Reddish Mage]

So this episode So the Man of Steel, who hasn't exactly been absent for more than 15 minutes so far without someone making an oblique reference to him, actually swoops in the middle of the show and rescues our budding heroine from, you know, being killed. Her reaction is a petulant "get out of my way!"

I get the message of the show is you have to let the bird fly from the nest and that Superman is preventing both Kara and Jimmy James from becoming greater people on their own, but Supergirl is clearly obsessed with her public image and letting her ego endanger others all over this episode.

This episode lets her get away without learning that sometimes you need to swallow your pride and that someone has to play the bass, she drags everyone along and endangers them for her petty but ultimately successful quest to prove she is just as good as him by beating a villain he did not!

Like it or not, this series is going to be constantly reminding us that Supergirl is a derivative of her cousin. It's at its best when Supergirl finds that there's a different, better way then his way, and that she can work in a team, have fun with and fully embrace her powers, and perhaps in her own way accomplish things he could never do.

However, Supergirl almost strikes me as an masculinist fantasy of a feminist, a chauvinist's caricature of a struggling woman, when she tries to prove she is just as strong, as capable, or as inspiring as her better known cousin. Girl, by playing that game you already lost.

Cause it doesn't matter if Kara is just as strong and capable of body and mind, by making it her primary goal to prove that fact, she just proved her spirit is insignificant in comparison.

[JadedDM]

I liked the episode, but I just found it jarring that she kept insisting she couldn't rely on her cousin and had to do everything herself exactly one episode after claiming that it's incredibly important to ask for help and rely on others.

I mean, I know why the writers are making her do that. Otherwise every time she gets into a spot of trouble, the audience will raise the question of why she just doesn't ask her cousin for help.

But still, it really clashed with her actions in the previous episode.

[Chen]

I love how she needed her sister to tell her to remove the core of the guy's armor. Come on now. Or how ridiculously vulnerable that guy in the super suit was if Supergirl had actually USED her super speed at all. Or you know melted his head with her eye beams. And though that's not really in her character, I don't know how HE knew that. Seems kinda dangerous to assume just based on Superman.

Interesting aside, that green dress she wore was the same green dress that Molly wore on the first episode of Heroes Reborn. That designer made some money it seems :P

[Reddish Mage]

It's not that there our otherways to do it. Superman can be off doing his own thing, asking Kara for assistance with a task too big for him alone, or,..best if you want to raise the stakes, have the Big Guy get worfed by the Big Bad and leave Kara alone to take on the one that defeated her cousin.

Instead, she is left alone because she doesn't want him stealing her limelight. She ignores the fact that, brave and capable or not, human photographers should not have to play bait. James should be risking his life out of necessity, not pride.

The show seems to exist to pump up Superman more so than Supergirl. Superman is purposefully brought in constantly in ways that diminish Supergirl.

The show created the problem and then they deal with the solution in the one way possible designed to make Superman an even bigger man.

It's like the show's existence is only to promote the Superman movie. More likely, it's like the first season of Agents of Shield were the writers were writing lousy 2nd string mundane spy stories because they really seemed to want to write superhero stories instead.

Here it seems like the show wants to be about Superman but is stuck with his cousin.

[themaque]

Having Superman dealing with some Cosmic Level threat and being away would help clear up a lot of that and make a lot of sense too.

Why are the Kryptonians causing a ruckus now? The big boy is out of town and only his kid sister is left to mind the shop!

The only problem here is people wanting to follow THAT storyline rather than whatever is going on in Supergirl.

[Sliver]

Monster of the Week doesn't seem like a big enough threat to warrant being someone Superman couldn't defeat... Big S didn't even flinch when he got blasted directly in the chest in his rescue of Little S, but he didn't bother to chase after MotW... What am I missing?

Because of the show I'm now rewatching Smallville... Which reminded me that the main struggle Clark faced was to realize who was the baddie of the week, and how to deal with him without drawing too much attention, which usually got solved by people conveniently getting knocked out. And the abundance of kryptonite in Smallville, with people using it in everything...

I guess it's solved here with making Supergirl much weaker and having her face somewhat stronger opponents, but it feels less like Supergirl is being different and more like she is just pretending to be Superman on a smaller scale.

[Avilan the Grey]

So this episode This episode lets her get away without learning that sometimes you need to swallow your pride and that someone has to play the bass, she drags everyone along and endangers them for her petty but ultimately successful quest to prove she is just as good as him by beating a villain he did not!

---

However, Supergirl almost strikes me as an masculinist fantasy of a feminist, a chauvinist's caricature of a struggling woman, when she tries to prove she is just as strong, as capable, or as inspiring as her better known cousin. Girl, by playing that game you already lost.

Cause it doesn't matter if Kara is just as strong and capable of body and mind, by making it her primary goal to prove that fact, she just proved her spirit is insignificant in comparison.

Well... I obviously didn't watch the same show as you. I disagree on all accounts here, and have to honestly wonder what the "endanger" part comes in at all. I didn't see it at all.


Monster of the Week doesn't seem like a big enough threat to warrant being someone Superman couldn't defeat... Big S didn't even flinch when he got blasted directly in the chest in his rescue of Little S, but he didn't bother to chase after MotW... What am I missing?

It's a TV show. They can't afford the movie power level. Not to mention the comics, where the power creep has once again made him ridiculous. The last Superboy comic I read (about 5 years ago) had him bench-pressing the entire planet. For hours. And not getting tired. And superman is stronger.

Here... Kryptonians seems to be slightly weaker than Movie!Iron Man.
Which, quite frankly, I enjoy. One of the things that turns me off with Superman is his stupid power levels.

[The Troubadour]

Like it or not, this series is going to be constantly reminding us that Supergirl is a derivative of her cousin. [...] However, Supergirl almost strikes me as an masculinist fantasy of a feminist, a chauvinist's caricature of a struggling woman, when she tries to prove she is just as strong, as capable, or as inspiring as her better known cousin. Girl, by playing that game you already lost.

Indeed. I think the main issue with this series - in addition to the terrible handling of gender issues, that is - is that it's trying too hard, to the point of eschewing all finesse and hurting the writing. It would be so much better if the writers (or producers) stopped focusing solely on Supergirl and started writing a show about a character named Kara Danvers who also happens to be Supergirl.
I do like that they're slowly adding more depth to Cat Grant, though. It will take a lot for me to let go the whole "no, calling a grown woman 'girl' is super-feminist and you're sexist if you don't agree!!!!", but she's becoming entertainingly annoying (instead of just annoying).


Well... I obviously didn't watch the same show as you. I disagree on all accounts here, and have to honestly wonder what the "endanger" part comes in at all. I didn't see it at all.

Well, even in the last episode, she seemed more concerned about herself and how she's seen by the public than saving lives. I mean, her first thought when the fire breaks out isn't "Alex, I know you're worried about me, but I can help people", it's "I've been hiding myself for years, I want to break free!"; and later, her main concern isn't "I may have caused terrible ecological damage", it's "now everyone thinks I'm a screw-up!".

[Ranxerox]

Well, even in the last episode, she seemed more concerned about herself and how she's seen by the public than saving lives. I mean, her first thought when the fire breaks out isn't "Alex, I know you're worried about me, but I can help people", it's "I've been hiding myself for years, I want to break free!"; and later, her main concern isn't "I may have caused terrible ecological damage", it's "now everyone thinks I'm a screw-up!".

Well viewed differently, that is ripe ground for character growth as the series progresses.

[Reddish Mage]

That is very true.


Ok so We haven't yet had this discussion, but it is a female protagonist, which means the most important and pressing discussion is:

So Lucy Lane has now turned it into a four-sided love triangle. What are the odds that Kara gets James, and Lucy winds up with the IT guy?

[Avilan the Grey]

Well, even in the last episode, she seemed more concerned about herself and how she's seen by the public than saving lives. I mean, her first thought when the fire breaks out isn't "Alex, I know you're worried about me, but I can help people", it's "I've been hiding myself for years, I want to break free!"; and later, her main concern isn't "I may have caused terrible ecological damage", it's "now everyone thinks I'm a screw-up!".

Seems like a normal way to react really.
Also, what exactly do you expect? She has not endangered people more than any other superhero in history.

[BannedInSchool]

I'm a little annoyed that these opening episodes are seemingly more fast-forwarding through getting the series to where they want it than making that the story for a season or a half. I can understand them wanting to explain "Team Supergirl" or "Why No Superman?", but I feel like they're wasting my time by just getting that development all out of the way in one episode rather than making it part of the character's story over more time. Introducing and wrapping it up in one episode makes it seem not that important to the character or for the future and also not worth making a whole episode out of it. Either really make a character development story out of it or just cover it with a few lines. Don't make a mostly extraneous prelude out of it. Well, that's just how I'm feeling about these opening episodes right now, like I'm still waiting for them to get to the start of the series proper.

[Darth Ultron]

I'm a little annoyed that these opening episodes are seemingly more fast-forwarding through getting the series to where they want it than making that the story for a season or a half.

I get this feeling too.....

You could make a lot of arcs out of just the three episodes of events they just dumped out there. For example, you could take the plot of ''sister is a Woman in Black'' and keep it up at least until the mid season finale/break. You could do it where the viewers know about it (but Kara does not) or you could just have it as a vague mystery where odd things happen and give the viewer clues. Then you'd have the big reveal mid season. The same way Evil Aunt could have stayed hidden a bit longer then show #2. There could have been a nice freaky sub plot where Kara thinks she is ''going crazy'' seeing her mom around. Or even have evil aunt hack into the Mom-hologram and do the old ''twist the hero to evil'' plot.

Or even just the Jimmy and IT guy know the secret. You could have gotten a good dozen shows where it is all awkward that they both don't know each other knows. We missed out on the great episode like: Kara takes both of them as a ''date'' to her high school reunion. Evil alien attacks, and the two of them comically, constantly are doing the ''I need to talk to Kara, alone''....half as they want to advance the alien attack plot, but with plenty of male ego jealous tossed in. The dance would have been classic, with both guys ''cutting in'' time after time after time...until Kara finally stops it and says ''he knows''...and they both look stunned and them gang up on her...and Kara puts her head down and covers her ears with a grown...fade to black...classic.

[The Troubadour]

Well viewed differently, that is ripe ground for character growth as the series progresses.

Normally, I'd agree, but it doesn't really feel like the show's narrative is acknowledging it as a flaw she needs to overcome; rather, it seems to accept it at face value. I think the show is so focused on its own brand of "I am woman, hear me roar" that it does not see any problem with Kara putting more value in striking out on her own than in saving lives.


Seems like a normal way to react really.
Also, what exactly do you expect?

Acknowledgement of her actions and taking responsibility for them, instead of whining about her ratings. Maybe something like "I need to learn how to handle heavy objects with precision, not just strength" - which, incidentally, the show does point out, only it's not an initiative from Kara herself.


You could make a lot of arcs out of just the three episodes of events they just dumped out there. For example, you could take the plot of ''sister is a Woman in Black'' and keep it up at least until the mid season finale/break.

They could, but why would they? That would be just padding.
I feel the pacing is just fine, really. Not every show needs to be slow-as-molasses (in fact, I'd argue most don't).

[Reddish Mage]

Normally, I'd agree, but it doesn't really feel like the show's narrative is acknowledging it as a flaw she needs to overcome; rather, it seems to accept it at face value. I think the show is so focused on its own brand of "I am woman, hear me roar" that it does not see any problem with Kara putting more value in striking out on her own than in saving lives.

Only when it comes to accepting help from Superman.

Cat opened with the question as to why Kara only began saving people now (Kara's response was defensive and a non-sequitur). Her sister and Red-Eyes response to her media antics show disapproval, but they disregard the rules to help her when she moves to save people from Reactron.

Cat's "Millennial Falcon" article was also surprisingly on point in describing Kara as, among other things, "self-absorbed." Cat also provides detailed on point criticism and advice to Supergirl when talking to her assistant. Indeed, Cat's positive appeal comes largely on how she pushes Kara to become a better heroine from episode to episode.

[Darth Ultron]

They could, but why would they? That would be just padding.
I feel the pacing is just fine, really. Not every show needs to be slow-as-molasses (in fact, I'd argue most don't).

Well, the first big problem is once you lay everything out in the open is your stuck with it. This is exactly why shows take it slow: drama.

The second problem is that it ruins the fictional reality. Ok, so Kara knows all about the men in black and the army of prisoners lead by her evil aunt......and she just goes to work and gets some coffee for Cat. See, that makes no sense. ''I know lots of evil, hardened, super powerful criminals are out their doing bad things and killing people....but I'm going to ignore all that and pretend to be a normal geek girl''. The ''well, let me know as soon as an alien kills someone, then I'll get off my lazy butt and do something'' is just dumb.

Though it is the same problem with well if you get caught in a building fire in National City, then Supergirl will fly over and save you, but if your just one mile away in Streetsburg she will let you die and burn to a crisp because she does not care.

Now I'll agree you don't want to do Smallville pacing where Clark does not put on the costume until what season 12? But, they are going just a bit too fast. Almost like they plan on ending the show or canceling it.

[Avilan the Grey]

Acknowledgement of her actions and taking responsibility for them, instead of whining about her ratings. Maybe something like "I need to learn how to handle heavy objects with precision, not just strength" - which, incidentally, the show does point out, only it's not an initiative from Kara herself.

I think you are way overthinking this. At the same time though... again, she is not acting worse than 95% of all superheroes, ever.

I am more interested in the very low power level of the series.

[The Troubadour]

Well, the first big problem is once you lay everything out in the open is your stuck with it. This is exactly why shows take it slow: drama.

Yeah, but there's good drama, and there's bad drama. For instance, is there any in-character reason for Kara to not just let James and Wynn know about each other? And would that actually provide a good story, instead of just being a rehash of a thousand sitcom plots that were already old even before Friends first aired?


The second problem is that it ruins the fictional reality. Ok, so Kara knows all about the men in black and the army of prisoners lead by her evil aunt......and she just goes to work and gets some coffee for Cat.

Oh, yes, that plotline is stupid, but not because of that: it's stupid because the escaped criminals have apparently been on Earth for a while, but have neither successfully enacted their plans, nor come into conflict with Superman.
That said, she does deserve to have a civilian life, and it's not as if she knows what are their plans or where they're hiding. (Nor do the MiB, for that matter, unless Henshaw is manipulating things - which wouldn't surprise me.)


I think you are way overthinking this.

I'm really not. Just compare it to how another Berlanti-produced show, The Flash, handles the exact same issues in a much better way, even though Barry is even more inexperienced than Kara (considering she has at least had her powers from birth, since in this continuity, apparently Kryptonians had their powers even back in Krypton).


Only when it comes to accepting help from Superman. [...]

Those are some good points, though.

EDIT: Actually, while those were some good points, I'm not sure we can divorce Cat's criticism of Kara from her decision to not accept Superman's help. Or, to put it another way: the episode has Cat making that criticism exactly so Kara can prove her wrong.

EDIT 2: Just to end on a positive note: in addition to the rounding of Cat, I do like how Kara and Alex's relationship isn't antagonistic like it was portrayed in the pilot anymore. I honestly feared they would hit all the tired clichés of sisterly rivalry with this series, so I'm pleasantly surprised.

[Chen]

Oh, yes, that plotline is stupid, but not because of that: it's stupid because the escaped criminals have apparently been on Earth for a while, but have neither successfully enacted their plans, nor come into conflict with Superman.
That said, she does deserve to have a civilian life, and it's not as if she knows what are their plans or where they're hiding. (Nor do the MiB, for that matter, unless Henshaw is manipulating things - which wouldn't surprise me.)


Yeah this is an issue. I mean you'd think once her Aunt showed up she'd want to at least casually mention it to Clark. You're a new super hero. There's this massive entire prison of escaped kryptonians (and others) out there. That's definitely a Superman level threat now that they've started actually doing stuff.

[Reddish Mage]

Oh, yes, that plotline is stupid, but not because of that: it's stupid because the escaped criminals have apparently been on Earth for a while, but have neither successfully enacted their plans, nor come into conflict with Superman.
That said, she does deserve to have a civilian life, and it's not as if she knows what are their plans or where they're hiding. (Nor do the MiB, for that matter, unless Henshaw is manipulating things - which wouldn't surprise me.)

Just compare it to how another Berlanti-produced show, The Flash, handles the exact same issues in a much better way, even though Barry is even more inexperienced than Kara (considering she has at least had her powers from birth, since in this continuity, apparently Kryptonians had their powers even back in Krypton.

I don't see why it would be odd for escaped alien criminals to spend a decade laying low and acclimating to their new climate before banding together to launch a conspiracy to take over the world. Especially with Superman running around. I realize a lot of Comic Alien villains love to immediately invade but sometimes they are sensible and take their time.

Kara is not Barry and is only slowly embracing her powers and has been told outright she wasn't necessary it even (at first) desired by the DEO.

Btw, Kryptonians explicitly only have their powers on Eath in this series. It was said by Kara's Mom in the very first scene that she would have great power on Earth "because of its Yellow Sun."



EDIT 2: Just to end on a positive note: in addition to the rounding of Cat, I do like how Kara and Alex's relationship isn't antagonistic like it was portrayed in the pilot anymore. I honestly feared they would hit all the tired clichés of sisterly rivalry with this series, so I'm pleasantly surprised.

It wasn't antagonistic in the Pilot, I'm pretty sure. They were best friends and constant companions at the start, they had a tiff in the middle over Alex's double life that they settled by the end of the show (the DEO thing flared up again in episode 2...again briefly).

[The Troubadour]

I don't see why it would be odd for escaped alien criminals to spend a decade laying low and acclimating to their new climate before banding together to launch a conspiracy to take over the world.

Look at Vartox and the Hellgrammite. Do they really strike you as the kind of people with the patience and smarts to successfully do that?


Kara is not Barry and is only slowly embracing her powers and has been told outright she wasn't necessary it even (at first) desired by the DEO.

She might have just started using her powers in life-or-death situations now, but she's had them since she was, what, 11, 12?
But yes, that's exactly my point: it's interesting how each show presents similar circumstances very differently for both characters.


Btw, Kryptonians explicitly only have their powers on Eath in this series. It was said by Kara's Mom in the very first scene that she would have great power on Earth "because of its Yellow Sun."

Then how come her aunt explicitly didn't seem to know what was pain until she had been stabbed by Henshaw's Kryptonite dagger? Was she born somewhere with an yellow sun and never once visited Krypton?


[...]they had a tiff in the middle over Alex's double life[...]

Again, I wouldn't classify "tearing each other down and Alex only acting supportive once Kara was past her breaking point" as merely a "tiff".

[TheEmerged]

She might have just started using her powers in life-or-death situations now, but she's had them since she was, what, 11, 12?
But yes, that's exactly my point: it's interesting how each show presents similar circumstances very differently for both characters.

Possible counter-point. Ever hear the joke that the surest way to get a teenager to do something was to tell them NOT to do it / they weren't allowed to do it? I'm thinking it's not impossible our Probably-Evil-Mentor-Type was going for that.

[Reddish Mage]

Look at Vartox and the Hellgrammite. Do they really strike you as the kind of people with the patience and smarts to successfully do that?

They didn't, the DEO has been aware of them and tracking them for awhile





Then how come her aunt explicitly didn't seem to know what was pain until she had been stabbed by Henshaw's Kryptonite dagger? Was she born somewhere with an yellow sun and never once visited Krypton?

Is that what she said? Well then...maybe Auntie loved some innovative Kryptonian Tanning Salon ("you'll be feeling Super!"), or you know, Kryptonian pain killers are so good, you forget you were ever in pain ;-)


Again, I wouldn't classify "tearing each other down and Alex only acting supportive once Kara was past her breaking point" as merely a "tiff".

Over DEO related things, not exactly their normal relationship. Their normal relationship is Kara asking Alex what to wear and getting kudos for how pretty and acne free she is.

[The Troubadour]

They didn't, the DEO has been aware of them and tracking them for awhile

"For a while" isn't close to "a decade".


Is that what she said?

Yes. That, and the whole "human beings are so weak and fragile" spiel only makes sense if Kryptonians have their powers at birth, instead of only on other people's planets.


Over DEO related things, not exactly their normal relationship.

DEO-related things aren't exactly an unimportant part of either one's lives, though.

[copel99]

It seems like another one of those cosmic size plot holes that the show has. It seems improbable that she has never experience pain that she did not remember but the level of being stabbed and also having the kryptonite in your blood is a different threshold of pain than standard pain some child would likely be subjected to. Krypotie in blood is like battery acid or something similar dissolving you from the inside out so maybe she was just not used to that type of pain. Also it may be that kryptonians are hardier than humans (just not hardy enough to stand a planet blowing up) or she has forgotten than she used to "fragile" to like people forgetting that people are poor and such after 10 years it is quite possible.

Cheers,

[BWR]

I thought the Livewire episode was pretty good. The clunky writing of the earlier episodes was much less evident here and Cat Grant (the best character and actor in the show) got some great screen time, and the family scenes were good.
I hope the show continues to improve at this rate, but if it doesn't get any better or worse I'll still be pleased with it.

Did anyone else get some serious 80's music video vibes from Livewire on the office screen?

[Darth Credence]

I liked the Livewire episode, too. I really don't like Calista Flockhart, but this show is changing my mind a little bit. I really like what she is doing with Cat Grant. I doubt I will ever seek out her shows, but I won't avoid them in the future, either.

[BannedInSchool]

I was annoyed by more character development (Sister vs. Mom) resolved as soon as it was introduced, so it's neither a set-up or a pay-off. :smalltongue:

[Reddish Mage]

I was annoyed by more character development (Sister vs. Mom) resolved as soon as it was introduced, so it's neither a set-up or a pay-off. :smalltongue:

I notice they are avoiding a lot of soapish drama in this series. The only long-running unresolved character conflicts are Kara/James, Kara/Winn, James/Lucy and Kara-Alex/Henshaw. Three of those are the legs of the obligatory love triangle (here having four sides). I like that they gave us the setup and resolution in one episode, its Thanksgiving. Mom learned to be thankful. Yay.

There just isn't much legs in Mom being disappointed in Alex. Although keeping both Kara and Alex in the dark about Henshaw longer, while teasing it to the audience, might serve to raise the tension.

By the way, the DEO noticed Kara that quickly...they knew about the aliens the whole decade. Must be busy being a MiB in this universe. I wonder if US cities are as full of aliens in this series as in that other MiB universe...

[Zmeoaice]

Who thinks that Jeremiah Danvers was killed in the Excalibur mission (the same one that sorta gave Hank his powers in the comic)

[Avilan the Grey]

So what kind of alien is the boss guy? (I don't remember the name right now). Immortal or slow aging obviously... But I don't recall his power set from the comics.

[Zmeoaice]

He's a cyborg in the comics

[Avilan the Grey]

He's a cyborg in the comics

He's a cyborg, or he's Cyborg?

It was 10000 years since I read TT (back when Raven was sexy and Brother Blood was the main arc story) so I don't remember his name, if that's the case.

[Zmeoaice]

Hank Henshaw aka Cyborg Superman. Astronaut who got in an accident with cosmic radiation but didn't get stretch powers, but burns and poisoning. He was also a white guy and a superman rogue in the comics.

[Avilan the Grey]

Hank Henshaw aka Cyborg Superman. Astronaut who got in an accident with cosmic radiation but didn't get stretch powers, but burns and poisoning. He was also a white guy and a superman rogue in the comics.

Ah. That guy.

[Reddish Mage]

Ah. That guy.

Superman rogue?

Btw Hank's red eyes kinda reminded me of the first appearance of Martian Manhunter in Smallville...any chance? I know, I know, it's probably just a case of "all red eye dudes look alike."

I believe Hank is an irredeemable supervillian in the comics. Suggests that, at best, things are going to get a lot more complicated when we finally learn his history and his hidden agenda.

[Dragonexx]

So, is this actually worth watching? Is it any good? I ask because I wasn't all that impressed by the pilot.

Can anyone give me a spoiler free reason to watch this?

[Zmeoaice]

So, is this actually worth watching? Is it any good? I ask because I wasn't all that impressed by the pilot.

Can anyone give me a spoiler free reason to watch this?

The other episodes are better than the pilot. They definitely seem to be setting up multiple plot points. I think the romantic subplot is handled better than in Flash, but it's only 5 episodes in so there's still room to botch that up.

[Randomguy]

Superman rogue?


As in someone from Superman's Rogues Gallery: One of his recurring villains.

[Reddish Mage]

New episode, great episode, really great dynamic with Cat and Kara. Cat's mom was the major disappointment, she could've been really funny. Instead she just comes off as mean.

[JadedDM]

TORNADOES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! GOOD NIGHT!

But seriously, I actually remembered while watching that I used to have a little action figure of Red Tornado when I was a small child. You'd squeeze his legs together and his upper torso would spin, I think. I suddenly got hit by this wave of nostalgia when I saw him spinning around like that.

I had a lot of DC action figures, but I knew very little about them, outside of the Super Friends cartoon I used to watch.

But anyway, good episode. Melissa Benoist is a terrific actor, and she really did a great job portraying Supergirl's frustration and outright rage. That scene when she nearly when Super Krypto-jin and blew Red Tornado up with her heat vision was pretty badass.

[dancrilis]

Weirdly this was likely the best(not a high bar) and worst(something of a hurdle to achieve) episode to date.


Overall episode was good - but having supergirl be told "It's alive" and immediately respond with "better kill it" seemed wrong - and possible a sample of what is to come.

I don't mind murder in shows, and I don't mind the good guys doing it - I dislike it when the good guys do it but are still meant to be good people in all things.

[Zmeoaice]

New episode, great episode, really great dynamic with Cat and Kara. Cat's mom was the major disappointment, she could've been really funny. Instead she just comes off as mean.

Well I think that was the point. She's like Cat on steroids.


Weirdly this was likely the best(not a high bar) and worst(something of a hurdle to achieve) episode to date.

I don't mind murder in shows, and I don't mind the good guys doing it - I dislike it when the good guys do it but are still meant to be good people in all things.

They can rebuild him, hopefully with a costume that isn't garbage.

[Reddish Mage]

Cat is funny, she is powerful, there is a certain positivity and light in the way she hurls her insults and brazenly displays her ego, and she can switch on a dime and be all supportive, caring, and even nuturing. Cat's Mom is pure vile garbage.

That's not "a strong version of Cat" that Cat, she's a nastier version of Cat without any redeeming features.

It does provide an excuse for Cat's constant Egoism. If Cat doesn't pump herself up, its not like her mom is going to do it for her.

[The New Bruceski]

Red Tornado should have brought the Putty Patrol to fight Supergirl.

[Avilan the Grey]

Still loving the series.

As for killing... Well first of all there is the whole... "Is sentient robots alive"? Thing.
Something struck me though... She is pulling off the "Clark Kenting". Seriously. You might laugh at it in the comics but she really does.


Also, btw, I am definitely more a Supergirl than Jessica Jones person. Always found heroics and bright costumes better than well, gritty stuff.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Still loving the series.

As for killing... Well first of all there is the whole... "Is sentient robots alive"? Thing.
Something struck me though... She is pulling off the "Clark Kenting". Seriously. You might laugh at it in the comics but she really does.


Also, btw, I am definitely more a Supergirl than Jessica Jones person. Always found heroics and bright costumes better than well, gritty stuff.

I can't agree more.

I almost can't tell she is the same person, and I can totally put off my suspension of disbelief better then I ever could with superman and the glasses.

[steppedonad4]

The only thing this show has going for it is Melissa Benoist. And not because she's a great actress.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

The only thing this show has going for it is Melissa Benoist. And not because she's a great actress.
That is very rude

[Avilan the Grey]

The only thing this show has going for it is Melissa Benoist. And not because she's a great actress.

Well I definitely disagree.
It's a good series, with good actors, and the lead is an excellent supergirl. It's almost avoiding being campy despite not being Grimdark Disturbing Gritty, too.

Also, yes, she's very attractive. But that has nothing to do with the rest.

[steppedonad4]

That is very rude
Why? Because I don't like what you like?


It's a good series, with good actors, and the lead is an excellent supergirl. It's almost avoiding being campy despite not being Grimdark Disturbing Gritty, too.
No, it's not a good series. The acting is mediocre at best and although I'll agree that she's a good choice for Cara, it still has objectively terrible production values. The dialogue is barely above the level of a daytime soap opera or a teenage novel, the sets may as well be out of a single camera, three-wall, the characterisations are obviously geared towards an immature mind-set, and the writing is so utterly formulaic that I've been able to predict exactly what will happen every single episode.

It's mindless, trivial trash. Moreover, the entire feminist angle they're going for is presented in such a heavy-handed, clumsy and immature way as to be completely on the nose and bordering on being sexist drivel.

I wanted to like this but like all the other DC entrants into the market recently, it's more of the same tired old rubbish that would've been entirely at home in the 80's and 90's and yet somehow got funded and made in this decade.

[Surrealistik]

No, it's not a good series. The acting is mediocre at best and although I'll agree that she's a good choice for Cara, it still has objectively terrible production values. The dialogue is barely above the level of a daytime soap opera or a teenage novel, the sets may as well be out of a single camera, three-wall, the characterisations are obviously geared towards an immature mind-set, and the writing is so utterly formulaic that I've been able to predict exactly what will happen every single episode.

It's mindless, trivial trash. Moreover, the entire feminist angle they're going for is presented in such a heavy-handed, clumsy and immature way as to be completely on the nose and bordering on being sexist drivel.

I wanted to like this but like all the other DC entrants into the market recently, it's more of the same tired old rubbish that would've been entirely at home in the 80's and 90's and yet somehow got funded and made in this decade.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Avilan the Grey]

...Or we could not argue about taste.
:smallbiggrin:

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Why? Because I don't like what you like?
OK, correct me, what is she good for if not her acting talent? Try your best not to be rude or sexist in your response...




No, it's not a good series. Your right it's a GREAT one, maybe the best superhero series ever...




It's mindless, trivial trash. wow...don't hold back on your expert opion... not only do you not like it but it's trivial trash???


I wanted to like this but like all the other DC entrants into the market recently, it's more of the same tired old rubbish that would've been entirely at home in the 80's and 90's and yet somehow got funded and made in this decade.
yea, how dare they give people what they want. Remember Arrow started this (you know that show everyone on here says sucks) then flash, now supergirl... so Berlanti is doing something right. He is making shows enough people like that they are letting him make more and more... and now Legends of Tomorrow and Booster gold/Blue Beetle movie... why would they give someone only making "Trivial Trash" so much... unless maybe you are wrong and he is making what people want...

[The Troubadour]

unless maybe you are wrong and he is making what people want...

Not getting into the argument of whether I agree with steppedonad4 or not (although that comment about the lead actress really was terrible), but I would like to point out that "what people want" doesn't necessarily directly correlate to "what's good", or vice-versa.

[BWR]

why would they give someone only making "Trivial Trash" so much... unless maybe you are wrong and he is making what people want...

In all fairness, 'trivial trash' is a good description of quite a lot of inexplicably popular things.

I just happen to think that it does not apply to Supergirl. While the writing and directing was quite clunky to start with, it's shaping up nicely now. I kind of miss the more aggressive and overtly chafing-under-restrictions Supergirl I'm more familiar with (from my admittedly limited excursions into her stories) but the show is steadily getting better and my girlfriend and I enjoy it. If it keeps improving at this pace it will easily surpass Arrow (not that hard to do after season 3 but it shows a little promise these days) and soon hit Flash levesl of goodness.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Not getting into the argument of whether I agree with steppedonad4 or not (although that comment about the lead actress really was terrible), but I would like to point out that "what people want" doesn't necessarily directly correlate to "what's good", or vice-versa.

the problem is that then what is there to discuss...

I like X
I do not like X
I can prove X is good by telling you why I like it
I can prove X is bad by telling you why I dislike it

At the end of the day if a show is meant to entertain people, and more people are entertained then not, then that is a victory is it not?

[Avilan the Grey]

Arguing about taste is futile.

[BannedInSchool]

Yeah, I don't want to pee on anyone's enjoyment of the series. Which is why I didn't say anything about this latest episode. I liked some parts of it, and the basic story's fine. The execution is still too unsubtle for me at times. We just jumped right off with Cat's mother being the Jar Jar of Abusively Mean Parents instead of more of a "like mother, like daughter" level, them sparring seemingly as equals, and then developing that it was more than that for Cat. With Supergirl's temper sneaking up on her it also wasn't left for the viewers to figure out what was going on or where it was going; it might as well have been in big flashing letters on the screen. The Robot Devil says that makes him feel angry too. :smallwink: The show just seems to me to be spending so much time and effort making some things so obvious that it disengages me. Not that I mind the overall story or what they do with it. It's just annoying clumsy in some parts for me, like they want to make really, really sure that nobody could miss this now terribly unsubtle point.

[The Troubadour]

the problem is that then what is there to discuss...[...]

Except it is possible to objectively review a work of fiction. I mean, true objectivity is a myth - every analysis will be subjective to some level, and that's not bad -, but it is perfectly possible to establish a critical framework which is more than just "I liked it" or "I didn't like it". :-)


At the end of the day if a show is meant to entertain people, and more people are entertained then not, then that is a victory is it not?

It depends on your point of view. Myself, I think cultural production, in general, could be less focused on easy entertainment and more interested in challenging itself and the viewer. I mean, I love candy bars, but a person can't live only on chocolate, right? :-)

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Except it is possible to objectively review a work of fiction. I mean, true objectivity is a myth - every analysis will be subjective to some level, and that's not bad -, but it is perfectly possible to establish a critical framework which is more than just "I liked it" or "I didn't like it". :-)



It depends on your point of view. Myself, I think cultural production, in general, could be less focused on easy entertainment and more interested in challenging itself and the viewer. I mean, I love candy bars, but a person can't live only on chocolate, right? :-)

the problem is that 'objective analysis' needs to be more then "Hey I saw that coming" and "It's written for 'average' people" or even worse "I don't like that style of show"

If you think it is objectively bad give actuall issues...

[The Troubadour]

the problem is that 'objective analysis' needs to be more then "Hey I saw that coming" and "It's written for 'average' people" or even worse "I don't like that style of show"

If you think it is objectively bad give actuall issues...

Actually, I do think "formulaic to the point of being predictable" and "the dialogue is pretty simplistic" are objective issues. At most, I'd have suggested steppedonad4 provided some examples for each, but really, it's not as if they're writing a professional review or anything, so I'd let that pass.

[steppedonad4]

Arguing about taste is futile.

I'm not arguing about taste, I'm arguing about production values which can most definitely be objectively evaluated. Acting, writing, direction, cinematography. There are established mores which guide our understanding of what is good and bad that have nothing to do with whether you liked or disliked something. I can like something that, by critical evaluation, is utter crap. And I can hate something that, by critical evaluation, is absolute genius.

The production values of Supergirl just aren't that great. Much like Arrow and Flash, they're at best at the level of a day-time soap opera. I'll admit that Arrow managed to get a pretty big boost in its latest season which is abnormal for even a successful TV series, but I'm guessing they're banking a lot on the upcoming Justice League stuff so they're pouring money into it. And yet, even then, it's really just a few decent set pieces like their base that are above an average level of design.

And the dialogue is so forced and contrived. It's very much 'on the nose' throughout, as are the relationships and cardboard cut-out personalities of the characters and their characterisation on screen. Their reasonings for their actions, their responses, etc. simply don't ring true. Same for Arrow and Flash. My god, the Arrow is so terrible for this and uses so many low-brow TV tropes it's sickening. When you have to write a character that constantly has contrived reasoning, like "I won't tell everyone this vitally important secret even though eventually everyone will know about it and it will create major conflict,", over and over and over again, then that is simply not good writing.

[dancrilis]

When you have to write a character that constantly has contrived reasoning, like "I won't tell everyone this vitally important secret even though eventually everyone will know about it and it will create major conflict,", over and over and over again, then that is simply not good writing.

While I agree with the majority I would say that it is 'normally not good writing', writing a character with some mental compulsion to deceive despite their best wishes and interests could be well done (that is of course apparently not what is happening in the shows you mentioned).

[Avilan the Grey]

I'm not arguing about taste, I'm arguing about production values which can most definitely be objectively evaluated. Acting, writing, direction, cinematography. There are established mores which guide our understanding of what is good and bad that have nothing to do with whether you liked or disliked something.

Ah. But as pointed out above, objectivity is, at least partly, a myth. If the writing is linguistically and grammatically correct... then the rest is taste, really. For example.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

I'm not arguing about taste, I'm arguing about production values which can most definitely be objectively evaluated. Acting, writing, direction, cinematography. There are established mores which guide our understanding of what is good and bad that have nothing to do with whether you liked or disliked something. I can like something that, by critical evaluation, is utter crap. And I can hate something that, by critical evaluation, is absolute genius. by what standards are you judging though?


The production values of Supergirl just aren't that great.
I disagree I think that there are very few shows on TV that can compare, and no superhero ones...


Much like Arrow and Flash, they're at best at the level of a day-time soap opera.
I don't watch soaps so could I have an example of this?


I'll admit that Arrow managed to get a pretty big boost in its latest season which is abnormal for even a successful TV series, but I'm guessing they're banking a lot on the upcoming Justice League stuff so they're pouring money into it. And yet, even then, it's really just a few decent set pieces like their base that are above an average level of design.

I love the new base, I think the palmer tech lab is great, the new apartment is beautiful, and the house of lurel is pretty good. I don't like reuseing the office of Brother blood, but at least they used an in show excuse. The police station is set up as well as anything on Law and order or Jessica jones... what sets aren't good?


And the dialogue is so forced and contrived. It's very much 'on the nose' throughout, as are the relationships and cardboard cut-out personalities of the characters and their characterisation on screen.
I will say the diggle/Ollie set up was a bit forced this season, and I didn't like Malcolm merlin on the flash part of the cross over. I also thought that the supergirl line to live why calling her a "mean girl" was bad and should have been the B word that I'm not sure if I can say here... other then that it is pretty great. Vibe sounds like a normal person, and I love everything felicity says.



Their reasonings for their actions, their responses, etc. simply don't ring true.
I really disagree, I feel like the supergirl cast is pretty much me and my friend



My god, the Arrow is so terrible for this and uses so many low-brow TV tropes it's sickening.
Tropes are neither good or bad, it is how they are used


When you have to write a character that constantly has contrived reasoning, like "I won't tell everyone this vitally important secret even though eventually everyone will know about it and it will create major conflict,", over and over and over again, then that is simply not good writing.
wait you think consistent characters that have realistic hang ups and don't do what is in there best interest is BAD writing? no wonder we don't agree... that is my example of EXCELLENT writing...

[steppedonad4]

by what standards are you judging though?


I disagree I think that there are very few shows on TV that can compare, and no superhero ones...


I don't watch soaps so could I have an example of this?



I love the new base, I think the palmer tech lab is great, the new apartment is beautiful, and the house of lurel is pretty good. I don't like reuseing the office of Brother blood, but at least they used an in show excuse. The police station is set up as well as anything on Law and order or Jessica jones... what sets aren't good?


I will say the diggle/Ollie set up was a bit forced this season, and I didn't like Malcolm merlin on the flash part of the cross over. I also thought that the supergirl line to live why calling her a "mean girl" was bad and should have been the B word that I'm not sure if I can say here... other then that it is pretty great. Vibe sounds like a normal person, and I love everything felicity says.


I really disagree, I feel like the supergirl cast is pretty much me and my friend



Tropes are neither good or bad, it is how they are used

wait you think consistent characters that have realistic hang ups and don't do what is in there best interest is BAD writing? no wonder we don't agree... that is my example of EXCELLENT writing...
Holy crap. The level of self-delusion you have in regards to this series is massive.

[Ranxerox]

Holy crap. The level of self-delusion you have in regards to this series is massive.

Dude, you don't like the series. You have made that point. Go away. Your behavior has become decidedly trollish. Find someone else's petunias to take a piss in, alright.

[JadedDM]

Agreed. You've said your piece, steppedonad4, but now you're attacking other people for their own opinions, so move on.

[Avilan the Grey]

Back to the enjoyment of the series:

Anybody but me that loved her face when she did the heat vision death ray thing? I think she pulled off a very "comic book aggressive face" there. In a good way.

[BWR]

Back to the enjoyment of the series:

Anybody but me that loved her face when she did the heat vision death ray thing? I think she pulled off a very "comic book aggressive face" there. In a good way.

Oh hell yes!
More of that, please.

[Soepvork]

I've watched the first two-and-a-half episode, but I find the constant reference to superman really annoying, and the overall quality just lacking. I feel ready to drop this series. Does it get any better?

[The New Bruceski]

Back to the enjoyment of the series:

Anybody but me that loved her face when she did the heat vision death ray thing? I think she pulled off a very "comic book aggressive face" there. In a good way.

Arrow needs to take notes for the Canary Cry. THAT is how you sell a scream.

[BWR]

I've watched the first two-and-a-half episode, but I find the constant reference to superman really annoying, and I feel ready to drop this series. Does it get any better?

Yes. So far it has been getting better just about every episode. Had they all been like the first two I would likely have dropped it by now, but now it is enjoyable. If they keep up the current quality, I will be pleased. If it gets better (and I hope it does) I will be very pleased.

[The Troubadour]

I feel ready to drop this series. Does it get any better?

In my opinion, slowly, but not surely. I find the writing continues to be very simplistic, for example. Still, I see potential enough that I think I'll at least finish the season.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

OMG... my mind is blown...

Ok, so I won't say it was left field that revel, but wow was it powerful
isn't cyborg superman... but Jonn Jones the Martian Manhunter
Now this is starting to look like a big brawl we may need him for is coming...

The whole 'hardest leasson a hero can learn is that they can't save everyone' went well.
the Wynn complaining came off just a bit creepy, but I still wish I could give him a big hug.
Jemm the satern son was done well.
And Cat did a good job inspiring... her character surprises me at every turn.

[steppedonad4]

Well, that didn't take long for it to jump the shark.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Well, that didn't take long for it to jump the shark.

what didn't you like?

[Zmeoaice]

I haven't seen the episode, but I think the twist they pulled (that many fans guessed weeks ago) was a pretty bad move for them.

[The New Bruceski]

I haven't seen the episode, but I think the twist they pulled (that many fans guessed weeks ago) was a pretty bad move for them.

Which fans guessed it? I only saw it being thrown around as a joke.

[Reddish Mage]

Many fans? I thought I was the only one on the thread at least, also I didn't play it that seriously anyway:

Not to bury the lead: Called it! Hank Henshaw is actually Martian Manhunter (its spelled J'on J'onzz btw, you know, cause Martians write that way).

Anyway, Supergirl loses her powers and so apparently the thing to do is to go right up to Maxwell Lord in her secret identity, tell him he's being mean to Supergirl...cause that's going to do something. "I think you might want to strike a more positive message," "I think I'm going to keep on being an *******."

Seriously, Maxwell Lord seems to be set on being a more dickish version of Tony Stark, and that's quite an accomplishment.

Btw, he's smart and he's perceptive, and Kara is desperately trying to X-ray eye a guy right in front of him...does she really think he can't put two and two together?

I'm not sure what to make of Lord's politics, he is quite clearly down on the government and he espouses "rugged self-reliance" but somehow both Supergirl and Cat, which I take to mean the show itself, takes that to mean he's cynical and negative about people and react by drawing a contrast to him with their notion that "everyday heroes" can save the day and that people can lift themselves up by their own bootstrapes. In other words, isn't the ideals espoused by Cat and Kara in this episode particularly the very ideals Maxwell is channelling?

Episodic drama gets another early escape with Hank Henshaw revealing is true identity as John Jones (spelling it in American). His origins are a lot more exotic then any non-DC reader would reasonably think a guy named "John Jones" should have.

Anyway, I'm not too upset we keep getting premature plot resolution with this show, because it's all in keeping with that light popcorn positive flavor they are going for. If there's one disappointment, its like this show is basically acting like a Superman spinoff, and there's no appropriate Superman show for this one to have spun off from. You know that Man of Steel isn't the one, although I might have liked the movie better if they stuck to light popcorn...or even if they buttered it down.

I guess the closest show to this one is Smallville.

[Chen]

Not really sure where they're going to go from here.

Either they'll need to massively depower Martian Manhunter, or it's going to be Supergirl helps out while J'onn J'onzz does the heavy lifting. I'm also not sure if DC is trying to set all these shows/movies in the same universe ala MCU or what, but if so it's going to be hard to keep focus away from him considering his status in the Justice League.

Aside that, I absolutely hate episodes where the main character loses their powers/memories whatever and then gets them back at the end pretending to have learned something. Everything felt SOO contrived in this episode. The whole Jimmy/tech guy romantic triangle thing is also quite stupid. It perpetuates that horrible view that even though you were rejected you should still passive-aggressively pursue the romantce because she'll come around eventually. Awful.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Not really sure where they're going to go from here.

Either they'll need to massively depower Martian Manhunter, or it's going to be Supergirl helps out while J'onn J'onzz does the heavy lifting. I'm also not sure if DC is trying to set all these shows/movies in the same universe ala MCU or what, but if so it's going to be hard to keep focus away from him considering his status in the Justice League.

Aside that, I absolutely hate episodes where the main character loses their powers/memories whatever and then gets them back at the end pretending to have learned something. Everything felt SOO contrived in this episode. The whole Jimmy/tech guy romantic triangle thing is also quite stupid. It perpetuates that horrible view that even though you were rejected you should still passive-aggressively pursue the romantce because she'll come around eventually. Awful.

I think MM is going to be a big help with the secret identity. In the comics back when my older brother read, matrix super girl used to disguise herself as superman so that superman and clark could be in the same room. They could do that here rather well.

I expect he is going to be as strong/tuff as she is, but also have the shape change and telepathy... it means she isn't in his shadow, she is his equal. It will allow for team up fights but not be over powered.

As for "Tech guy" I do think he was a little creepy but I still blame Kara for most of it. I have seen it in real life and call other women on it (and hope someone would do the same to me.) SHe is either A purposefully ignoring him, or B so stupid she doesn't know he likes her. Either way is her getting her cake and eating it too. If she wants him to stop pineing, she has to put on her big girl pants and talk to him like an adult.

One of my big pet peeves is that other women treat guys like 'tech guy' and killgrave from Jessica jones like it is the same thing... (and I mean IRL AND in stories) "Hey no means no..." but smiling and pretending he didn't ask you out or that he isn't trying to flirt isn't the same as "No"...

[dancrilis]

The whole Jimmy/tech guy romantic triangle thing is also quite stupid. It perpetuates that horrible view that even though you were rejected you should still passive-aggressively pursue the romantce because she'll come around eventually. Awful.

I had to read that twice to understand what you were saying as the romantic plot that annoyed me was the other one, yes Winslow came across as whiny and seemingly hurt - but he also was right.

Kara convinced Jimmy to get back with Lucy, Lucy quit her job to make it work and they are moving in together - and now Kara is fawning on Jimmy? Is she actively trying to screw with Lucy's life for the giggles?
At this point I can see the plot move on to Jimmy and Lucy breaking up just as Kara gets together with Winslow - leaving Lucy bitter at Supergirl solely to setup a Superwoman plot which is all Kara's fault for screwing around with other peoples lives.

[Avilan the Grey]

Not really sure where they're going to go from here.

Either they'll need to massively depower Martian Manhunter,

Since everyone in the series is on a vastly lower power level than in the comics, or even the movies, why wouldn't he be?
I mean Supergirl, who is a fully powered Kryptonian, is about on the same strength level as Movie!Iron Man.

[dancrilis]

Since everyone in the series is on a vastly lower power level than in the comics, or even the movies, why wouldn't he be?
I mean Supergirl, who is a fully powered Kryptonian, is about on the same strength level as Movie!Iron Man.

I admit I am having difficulty taking the Kryptonians in the series properly seriously due to the lower power level.

It is a bit dated but Superman in 'Lois and Clark' was able to take a nuke when at his weakest in one episode (to memory), I don't get the impression that either Superman, Supergirl or the criminal Kryptonians are even at that 'toned down for TV' level (or anywhere close).

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

I admit I am having difficulty taking the Kryptonians in the series properly seriously due to the lower power level.

It is a bit dated but Superman in 'Lois and Clark' was able to take a nuke when at his weakest in one episode (to memory), I don't get the impression that either Superman, Supergirl or the criminal Kryptonians are even at that 'toned down for TV' level (or anywhere close).

Not with standing the most crazy super man feats (reigniting stars, moving planets ect) I always assume kryptonians are just the top of the line... smaller lines just have lower tops.

SO super girl and Super man don't need to be able to survive nukes, if the next strongest can only take on a semi going 60...

The again as a comic girl I have to laugh at what INVUNRABLE means... I have for years seen it like Mutants and Masterminds does it (best comic book rpg ever) where there are stages... Oh invulnerable to knives... invulnerable to small arms fire.


To put it in D&D terms (since this is the Oots board) if everyone caps at 20 str, and Kryptonions have 26-28 str they are 'super' if there are normal people capping at 20, a handful of extrdanary 22's and other supers between 24-30... kryptonions have to be 34+


edit: to put this in M&M terms, comic super girl is 15 str, and 15 super attrbite str... so 30, and super str (for lifting and carrying) 10 TV show super girl is still 15st and 15 supper attr, but only has a 2 super st

[Reddish Mage]

I don't see why we need to depower Martian Manhunter. At the very least its premature to see how they deal with his powers.

We haven't actually seen him fight yet, and his request was Alex keep it a secret even from Kara. So unless and until he's out in the open, that means he's going to continue to be playing Hank Henshaw, although, at the pace of drama in this series, I give it 2-3 episodes at most before Kara learns who he is.

Where is Martian Manhunter on the scale anyway? Where is Kara? My understanding of the comicbooks is that both of them are all over the place but definitely in the top-tier.

[dancrilis]

Not with standing the most crazy super man feats (reigniting stars, moving planets ect) I always assume kryptonians are just the top of the line... smaller lines just have lower tops.

SO super girl and Super man don't need to be able to survive nukes, if the next strongest can only take on a semi going 60...


Which would be fine if the narrative supported it - but it does not, Maxwell Lord is concerned that Supergirl (and by implication Superman) will steal humanities drive (as Black Mage puts it here (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/03/17/episode-1106-from-a-certain-point-of-view/)), but the version of kryptonians we have don't support that.

Effectively humans can build robots that can challenge her in a fight, build drones that cause her issue capturing them, but on suits that give her issue ... she is not top of the line even ignoring the other aliens.

What they have tried to do is have a kryptonian which the world allots comic status without actually giving them the comic powers which earn that status - which is bad writing (I could/should perhaps add 'in my opinion' here). When your writing can't support a character don't write that character would be my take (at least not professionally).

To take another example the Flash on 'The Flash' he is clearly fast (much faster than they let on - Mach 2? yea unless that museum with the meteorite was on the same street as the house ... no), they make a point that he is getting faster and they do not shy away from that. I have issues with some of the writing and story their also (and with the maths) but they at least let him be fast, they let Arrow be an good archer.
They screw up other characters but at least the most basic elements are present in both those - so why don't they let Supergirl be well super (those level of powers are hard to deal with yes - but not impossible, it just means focusing on the person rather than the weekly threat).

[The New Bruceski]

I'm not sure what to make of Lord's politics, he is quite clearly down on the government and he espouses "rugged self-reliance" but somehow both Supergirl and Cat, which I take to mean the show itself, takes that to mean he's cynical and negative about people and react by drawing a contrast to him with their notion that "everyday heroes" can save the day and that people can lift themselves up by their own bootstrapes. In other words, isn't the ideals espoused by Cat and Kara in this episode particularly the very ideals Maxwell is channelling?

But Lord is criticizing Supergirl so he CAN'T be right!

As for the love whatever-angle, it looked like Kara punched her way into some perspective last week and got through all that. Stuff between her and James this episode seemed fine, now Winn just needs to work his way through his little "it's the other person's fault a crush doesn't work out" frustrations.

[Anteros]

Which would be fine if the narrative supported it - but it does not, Maxwell Lord is concerned that Supergirl (and by implication Superman) will steal humanities drive (as Black Mage puts it here (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/03/17/episode-1106-from-a-certain-point-of-view/)), but the version of kryptonians we have don't support that.

Effectively humans can build robots that can challenge her in a fight, build drones that cause her issue capturing them, but on suits that give her issue ... she is not top of the line even ignoring the other aliens.


Issues like this exist in the comics as well though. Superman fighting some mad scientist's robot is one of the classics. Luthor and Bats can both stand up to him in a suit. I'm also sure there are examples of people creating drones or other crafts that Superman can't catch (although I can't currently come up with any specific examples.)

It's just one of those things you have to accept and ignore if you want to enjoy the genre.

[Zmeoaice]

I'm not sure what to make of Lord's politics, he is quite clearly down on the government and he espouses "rugged self-reliance" but somehow both Supergirl and Cat, which I take to mean the show itself, takes that to mean he's cynical and negative about people and react by drawing a contrast to him with their notion that "everyday heroes" can save the day and that people can lift themselves up by their own bootstrapes. In other words, isn't the ideals espoused by Cat and Kara in this episode particularly the very ideals Maxwell is channelling?
[/SPOILER]

It's similar ideals, but they're channeling it differently with regards to the hero. Max stated that Supergirl makes people complacent and needing to be rescued, while Cat believes that Supergirl will inspire ordinary people to rise themselves up.

[Reddish Mage]

Which would be fine if the narrative supported it - but it does not, Maxwell Lord is concerned that Supergirl (and by implication Superman) will steal humanities drive (as Black Mage puts it here (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/03/17/episode-1106-from-a-certain-point-of-view/)), but the version of kryptonians we have don't support that.

Effectively humans can build robots that can challenge her in a fight, build drones that cause her issue capturing them, but on suits that give her issue ... she is not top of the line even ignoring the other aliens.

What they have tried to do is have a kryptonian which the world allots comic status without actually giving them the comic powers which earn that status

Didn't this episode just show Kara doesn't need powers to be a hero or be inspiring. Its not a function of how powerful Superman and Supergirl are, its how humanity views and reacts to them that threatens Lord.


It's similar ideals, but they're channeling it differently with regards to the hero. Max stated that Supergirl makes people complacent and needing to be rescued, while Cat believes that Supergirl will inspire ordinary people to rise themselves up.

Very different politics, I think Cat explicitly mentions she's a democrat (if not she's implied it in several episodes), but more important then inconsequential-to-show party politics, Cat explicitly believes in the role of her own institution, Supergirl, and people's ability to be empowered by her media company. She notably didn't have any problem with the DEO FBI.

Lord is clearly a libertarian, but further believes in relying only in himself and that people should only rely on themselves.

So I'm reading that the intended message is that Cat and Supergirl are trying to get across a message that people can collectively trust in symbols or government or themselves as a group...but I'm not sure which.

Whereas Lord is suggesting "cynical" self-reliance as the alternative. However, like reading a passing shot at Atlas Shrugged, Lord philosophy isn't made out to be cynical as we are told its cynical. Further proof comes from Lord being made into a xenophobe by making him a cynic regarding what should be a shining example of positive individualism in this ideological framework: Supergirl.


But Lord is criticizing Supergirl so he CAN'T be right!

Yeah um, that's what I'm kinda getting at. If we can't articulate a coherent political philosophy angle for Maxwell to play, he ends up being wrong without any real reason.

Perhaps hoping for Maxwell Lord to actually articulate his ideology in a way consistent with how its been portrayed in American life is asking too much of this show.

My expectation is that Lord will eventually be taught the error of his ways by learning to trust the government and Supergirl because of actions Supergirl takes besides the DEO later this season. Nevermind that Kara, Alex and J'on J'onzz are basically co-opting the entire organization to serve their private agenda by turning it away from the government well-established Xenophobic obesssions and towards targeting the bad guys whether they be alien, robot, or human.

[BannedInSchool]

Yeah, another big part of an episode that just didn't work for me. Before this episode I wasn't sure what was going to happen with Hank, but after Sister voiced her paranoia at the start of this episode I was 95% convinced he'd be an okay guy. That made that particular plot in the episode tedious for me. The show sold me on him being a good guy with a secret and her mistaken from the start, so I was just waiting to find out what that secret was and being annoyed at her being wrong the whole time.

[The Troubadour]

Where is Martian Manhunter on the scale anyway? Where is Kara? My understanding of the comicbooks is that both of them are all over the place but definitely in the top-tier.

My knowledge might be out-of-date, since I don't follow the New 52 stories, but in the classic, post-Crisis continuity, Supergirl is a lot faster and stronger than Martian Manhunter, although still not on the same level as Superman. On the other hand, in addition to his vast psychic powers, the Martian Manhunter can compensate for the differences - and even overcome them - by using a variety of tricks, such as:
- absorbing both organic and inorganic mass from all around him in order to grow and become stronger and more resilient;
- altering his density to become stronger and more resilient, or to become intangible (partially or fully, and even in quick succession - for instance, he could become intangible to "dodge" an attack and then immediately harden his body to counterattack);
- change his shape in various ways in order to overwhelm foes in close combat;
- reducing his density and aligning himself with the Earth's magnetic fields to vastly increase his flying speed.
...Why, yes, I am a huge fan of the character, why do you ask? :-P


SHe is either A purposefully ignoring him, or B so stupid she doesn't know he likes her. Either way is her getting her cake and eating it too. If she wants him to stop pineing, she has to put on her big girl pants and talk to him like an adult.

Hold on, why is she the only one held responsible for the situation? Neither one of the options you've presented is the equivalent of her using Winn. Since it seems she doesn't have any romantic feelings towards him, she has every right to not address his own feelings in order to avoid a potentially awkward situation (which she might even be doing out of consideration for him, but even if she weren't, she would have the right to not want to deal with it), and if she really is oblivious to how he feels, well, she has a right to that, too, without being considered stupid.

Really, this isn't even close to a situation of "No means no"; for starters, Winn hasn't actually broached the topic at all for Kara to say "Yes" or "No".

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

My knowledge might be out-of-date, since I don't follow the New 52 stories, but in the classic, post-Crisis continuity, Supergirl is a lot faster and stronger than Martian Manhunter, although still not on the same level as Superman. On the other hand, in addition to his vast psychic powers, the Martian Manhunter can compensate for the differences - and even overcome them - by using a variety of tricks, such as:
- absorbing both organic and inorganic mass from all around him in order to grow and become stronger and more resilient;
- altering his density to become stronger and more resilient, or to become intangible (partially or fully, and even in quick succession - for instance, he could become intangible to "dodge" an attack and then immediately harden his body to counterattack);
- change his shape in various ways in order to overwhelm foes in close combat;
- reducing his density and aligning himself with the Earth's magnetic fields to vastly increase his flying speed.
...Why, yes, I am a huge fan of the character, why do you ask? :-P

ok, wow you must be a huge fan cause you named something I have never seen done...and I thought I was a pretty big comic nerd... now new 52 not with standing(I have read 0 of his stand alone book) I think you pretty much have it right though...

Imagine if they had a budget that allowed them to really use that shape shifting... like in the last 2 parter of JLU when he turned into a dragon to fight...

Martian Manhunter is AWSOME



Hold on, why is she the only one held responsible for the situation? well she isn't alone in acting the child here. The entire Winn/Kara situation turns the show into a high school intead of work place drama... He needs to man up, someone needs to be an adult... but you don't get to call him out without saying she isn't doing much better.



Neither one of the options you've presented is the equivalent of her using Winn.
Let me go back an episode or two (I think no spoiler needed but just in case) to the hacking. remember she not only knows he will push rules for her, and her alone but that he risked federal jail... the character that Knows to push those buttons should know why they work.




Since it seems she doesn't have any romantic feelings towards him, she has every right to not address his own feelings in order to avoid a potentially awkward situation (which she might even be doing out of consideration for him, but even if she weren't, she would have the right to not want to deal with it), and if she really is oblivious to how he feels, well, she has a right to that, too, without being considered stupid.
she only has that right as long as she is willing to put up with it. the stupid is if she doesn't even know it is happening.

If I start a new job tomorrow and Billy the guy next to me is fawning over me the way Winn Obviously does to kara, I have some choices... I can ignore it, I can use it, I can stop it, I can embrace it...what is wrong is if I complain about it being 'creepy' without ever letting him know...



Really, this isn't even close to a situation of "No means no"; for starters, Winn hasn't actually broached the topic at all for Kara to say "Yes" or "No".
really, I think I remember him asking her out, and her at least acting like she didn't understand that was what he was doing, and him coming right out and saying "Your lesbian that's why you didn't respond to me hitting on you" and her ignoring that too.

He is not playing coy... he is wearing his heart on his sleeve... and she either is ignoring it or stupid.

[Avilan the Grey]

Mr Lord seems to be... an ass for the sake of being an ass, really, when it comes down to it.
His writing is not very good at the moment. He seems like a mix between Donald Trump, an Used Cars Salesman and Tony Stark.

[BWR]

Mr Lord seems to be... an ass for the sake of being an ass, really, when it comes down to it.
His writing is not very good at the moment. He seems like a mix between Donald Trump, an Used Cars Salesman and Tony Stark.

I haven't read him in any comics but his Wikipedia article indicates that's a fair portrayal.

[Chen]

really, I think I remember him asking her out, and her at least acting like she didn't understand that was what he was doing, and him coming right out and saying "Your lesbian that's why you didn't respond to me hitting on you" and her ignoring that too.

She said she had a date when he asked her out the first time. She ignored the lesbian thing because she was telling him she was Supergirl.

[The Troubadour]

ok, wow you must be a huge fan cause you named something I have never seen done...and I thought I was a pretty big comic nerd... now new 52 not with standing(I have read 0 of his stand alone book) [...]

Martian Manhunter is AWSOME

He is! If you're interested, I heartily recommend Jon Ostrander's series from the mid-nineties. He knew how to use a character with such versatility without relying on J'onzz forgetting his own powers or being inept with them.


well she isn't alone in acting the child here. The entire Winn/Kara situation turns the show into a high school intead of work place drama... He needs to man up, someone needs to be an adult... but you don't get to call him out without saying she isn't doing much better.

Honestly, just that "You're a lesbian, that's why you're not into me, what a relief!" moment in the pilot was enough to classify him a jerk. But yes, I do think she is doing much better in not bringing up something over which she has no responsibility ("Wearing his heart on his sleeve" is not the same thing as "Being clear and honest with his feelings"), especially since apparently it doesn't make her uncomfortable or annoyed (though for the life of me I can't figure out why - see "The only reason you're not in me is because you're a lesbian, what a relief!").

Wait, hold on; wasn't there a moment in the pilot when he gawked at her wearing one of the prototypes for her costume (I think the one "[she] wouldn't even wear to the beach") and she looked at him clearly annoyed and he stopped? Shouldn't that have been enough of a "no" for him? Jeez, this whole relationship is written terribly.

[theNater]

So I'm reading that the intended message is that Cat and Supergirl are trying to get across a message that people can collectively trust in symbols or government or themselves as a group...but I'm not sure which.

Whereas Lord is suggesting "cynical" self-reliance as the alternative.
The message is that people can trust in each other; contrasted with Lord's cynical message that people can't. His message is, basically, "no one is coming to help you". And it's important to note he's not wrong just because he disagrees with Supergirl and Cat but that he's actually causing real harm with that message. Look at the robber. He's desperate because he's scared. All he needs to drop his gun is a reassurance that it's going to be okay, that people are coming to help.

Think about Lord's message again in relation to James' trip into the elevator shaft. Suppose those were government employees up there, and James really believed in the whole "we have to look out for ourselves" idea. Is there any way he risks his life to help them? Especially when Lord has made clear that "we" doesn't include Supergirl or the government? This is the divisiveness Cat refers to, and what Supergirl explicitly refutes when she says "we're all in this together".

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Wait, hold on; wasn't there a moment in the pilot when he gawked at her wearing one of the prototypes for her costume (I think the one "[she] wouldn't even wear to the beach") and she looked at him clearly annoyed and he stopped? Shouldn't that have been enough of a "no" for him? Jeez, this whole relationship is written terribly.

witch is the problem... it is the worst part of the show. When you look at flash and arrow I think personal relationship of the adult kind is where berlanti and crew have there weakest writing... they can write bro/sis sis/sis bro/bro mom/dad/child and friends great... but try to get boyfriend/girlfriend or love interest in general and they can't get it to feel real.

I will say that same "don't look at me that way" look can be given to friends, potential lovers, or even lovers...


Honestly, just that "You're a lesbian, that's why you're not into me, what a relief!" moment in the pilot was enough to classify him a jerk. But yes, I do think she is doing much better in not bringing up something over which she has no responsibility ("Wearing his heart on his sleeve" is not the same thing as "Being clear and honest with his feelings"), especially since apparently it doesn't make her uncomfortable or annoyed (though for the life of me I can't figure out why - see "The only reason you're not in me is because you're a lesbian, what a relief!"). I have to disagree. everyone in the situation should be an adult and talk. The problem is that they would all rather play like children... and yes I have seen it in real life but I have a low opinion of that too.



He is! If you're interested, I heartily recommend Jon Ostrander's series from the mid-nineties. He knew how to use a character with such versatility without relying on J'onzz forgetting his own powers or being inept with them.
I love ostrander's work in general I may have to go look for that...

[LokeyITP]

It's probably a choice on CW. Too many of their shows are along similar lines (soap opera tropes galore). Because Arrow did a lot of things very well that first season and a half. It should have dropped the flashbacks a long time ago and often characters wind up in limbo or doing stupid things because the writers have no idea what to do with them. Sometimes that's bad enough to drag down the whole show.

I was pretty skeptical of the praise for Supergirl, but episodes 2 and 3 are pretty good, certainly better than the pilot. I watch low-res so might be more forgiving of low grade effects and I have some tolerance for tropes. Don't see any standout acting yet, but not seeing anything bad either. Not sure where the plot's going but at least it's moving so far. So far, it could easily have been much worse. Alright, I often say move the fight out of Metropolis when watching so far :)

[The Troubadour]

Oh, yeah, forgot about this.


I haven't read him in any comics but his Wikipedia article indicates that's a fair portrayal.

Well, the original Max was basically a used car salesman through and through, although he did have a good heart underneath it all. Then came Infinite Crisis and its preludes, where he was basically turned into a human supremacist and retconned into having been a fascist mastermind the whole time.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Oh, yeah, forgot about this.



Well, the original Max was basically a used car salesman through and through, although he did have a good heart underneath it all. Then came Infinite Crisis and its preludes, where he was basically turned into a human supremacist and retconned into having been a fascist mastermind the whole time.

one of my older brothers read the Bwa ha ha league, and I remember Max being a good natured used car salesman... what would happen if you took tony stark or bruce wayne, but removed the superhero and left the public face...

in the series he is a bit of an amalgam of Old max, new max and lex luther...

[everdeenkatniss]

I thought it was pretty okay. What giant plot holes are you talking about?

For me, it just seems so incredibly derivative of Superman, like, they're constantly talking about him that she still, like usual, just feels like "Superman, but younger and weaker and a girl"

[Anteros]

Wait, hold on; wasn't there a moment in the pilot when he gawked at her wearing one of the prototypes for her costume (I think the one "[she] wouldn't even wear to the beach") and she looked at him clearly annoyed and he stopped? Shouldn't that have been enough of a "no" for him? Jeez, this whole relationship is written terribly.

I don't think I can agree with that. Just because you get irritated with someone doesn't necessarily mean you'd never go out with them. I can think of plenty of real life scenarios similar to this where the couple ends up dating.

[The Troubadour]

I don't think I can agree with that. Just because you get irritated with someone doesn't necessarily mean you'd never go out with them. I can think of plenty of real life scenarios similar to this where the couple ends up dating.

Every one has a right to change their mind, but if the reaction to a person gawking at another in a clearly sexual context is embarassment and annoyance, I'd say it's best to let it go. I mean, no one can control their feelings, but as shown, Winn hasn't even been trying to move on.

[LokeyITP]

The love rhombus is starting to drag on me, at least it's only a small part of the show so far.

Can't be as positive about eps 4-6 as I was on 2 and 3. Stuff I thought was going well was walked back and replaced by I'm not sure what yet.

- What was a robot possibly comes to life, so of course now you use lethal force. This is...what's the opposite of heroic?

- Livewire was well done effect-wise at least.

- Not sure what you guys are reading on Johnz. I figure he stoops like MM when he slouches off camera?

- I guess CBS' slower pace hurts the writing. Less of the keep throwing plot and see what works than Arrow or Flash.

- You really need to establish a better reason to let your villain get away than cutting to commercial :)

- Acting is generally serviceable. Most roles are pretty flat and safe, so not much to comment on. Flockheart's probably the best, Gen. Lane was omg flat and might as well be wearing an I'm evil button.

Show's been green-lit for the year at least. I'll give it at least one more ep, but it's losing me pretty fast. Granted it's television, but would a male hero need to be told some of the stuff Kara has to be told?

[Friv]

I'm pretty sure that this version of Maxwell Lord is basically Lex Luthor. For all of the "is he cynical, or is he not so bad", keep in mind that he killed a man in order to figure out Supergirl's strengths and weaknesses, and when confronted his response was "Isn't it interesting how you reacted, Supergirl?" No shame, no attempt at justification, just a smug certainty that Supergirl couldn't pin it on him. That is straight-up supervillain behaviour, and the fact that he might have a theoretically good goal for humanity as a whole doesn't change that fact at all.

With that in mind, his philosophy isn't consistent because it isn't real. It's an excuse for him to be cynical and to screw people over secure in the knowledge that they were going to screw him over first. To the extent that he's a libertarian, he's mouthing the beliefs without any real desire to consider how that should affect his actions (not unlike a number of real-life businessmen, really). Cat dislikes him because she's spent time interacting with him. Supergirl dislikes him, again, because he killed a man just to learn about her powers. Cannot stress that enough.

As far as Winn, I'm about 60% sure he's going to wind up a supervillain, too, but it's possible that he's just being a twit and is going to realize it. And yeah, Cara is not exactly covering herself with glory here, but he is handling the situation with remarkable lack of tact, grace, and understanding that he doesn't just get to have the girl because he's crushing on her. His little "the superhero doesn't get the guy" speech was downright nasty, but if he'd tried to apologize to her afterwards, I might have cut him some slack. But instead, he's just twisting the knife, refusing to acknowledge that he's not the injured party here.

[Avilan the Grey]

Maxvell Lord in this version seems to be a more logical Foil for Batman. Dead Parents? Check. Opposite reactions to stuff? Check.

[The Troubadour]

I'm pretty sure that this version of Maxwell Lord is basically Lex Luthor. For all of the "is he cynical, or is he not so bad", keep in mind that he killed a man in order to figure out Supergirl's strengths and weaknesses, and when confronted his response was "Isn't it interesting how you reacted, Supergirl?"

To be fair, he did seem genuinely guilty over it. It's not a justification (especially since it's a sign of just how arrogant he is - that he truly thought he could pull the whole thing off without his patsy getting hurt in some way), but it does show he's not as cold as Luthor. I think they're going more for "misguided" than outright villainous with him - let's see if they succeed.


As far as Winn, I'm about 60% sure he's going to wind up a supervillain, too,[...]

Well, we did have two Toymen in the comics (though they were unrelated), so... More seriously, I'm half-afraid he'll actually end up as Kara's love interest, although I truly hope that doesn't come to pass - I hated that Kara apologized to him for having a moment with Jimmy, when Winn only said those things because of his feeeeeeeelings for Kara and his sense of entitlement.

[Lizard Lord]

I did not like the first episode of this and have not bothered to watch more. I am only on this because, well let me explain.

I was also not interested in watching the Flash at first, but happily picked it up once the series hinted at introducing Gorilla Grodd. I could not resist watching a live action show that would have something as delightfully silly as a psychic gorilla as a recurring villain. It is what opened up a world of silly comic book that has me continuing back.

Supergirl is still newish, but has it had something like that and if not what are the odds that it will? The only Superman villain that I can think of that would meet that criteria would be Mister Mxyzptlk, and I am not familiar with any Supergirl exclusive villains (if there are any).

[Zmeoaice]

Supergirl is still newish, but has it had something like that and if not what are the odds that it will? The only Superman villain that I can think of that would meet that criteria would be Mister Mxyzptlk, and I am not familiar with any Supergirl exclusive villains (if there are any).

Well they are going to use Toyman who makes giant killer toys.

Other goofy Superman villains would include Titano, a giant chimp who shoots Kryptonite rays from his eyes, Ultra-Humanite, a mad scientist who transplanted his brain into an albino gorilla (What is it with DC villains being apes), and I guess Lobo.

[The New Bruceski]

I did not like the first episode of this and have not bothered to watch more. I am only on this because, well let me explain.

I was also not interested in watching the Flash at first, but happily picked it up once the series hinted at introducing Gorilla Grodd. I could not resist watching a live action show that would have something as delightfully silly as a psychic gorilla as a recurring villain. It is what opened up a world of silly comic book that has me continuing back.

Supergirl is still newish, but has it had something like that and if not what are the odds that it will? The only Superman villain that I can think of that would meet that criteria would be Mister Mxyzptlk, and I am not familiar with any Supergirl exclusive villains (if there are any).

So far for things close to that sort of spectacle we had Red Tornado (Power Rangers-level costume, pretty good effects) and last week the main cast has been supplemented with Martian Manhunter http://i.imgur.com/vWkORfz.jpg though he hasn't done any special-effects stuff yet (staying vague because it was an end-of-episode reveal and I don't want to put this entire post in a spoiler block). Just a MUCH better costume than Tornado had.

EDIT: ^^^ holy crap if any of the DC shows managed to do Lobo well I'll go ahead and commit to being a fan for the lifetime of the show.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Holy ****.... that was the best mid season break ever.... it was the best.

Cat gets to pull the "I figured it out" and Max gets a good shot in, and The DEO was pretty useful, and that last fight...

Can anyone name the cameo aliens? I can't belive that rocked so much...

10 thumbs up

can we get a starman if we get a season 2? or maybe they are going for phantom lady...

[Reddish Mage]

So I just speculating the other day about this what if scenario:

I figured Cat Grant would figure it out sooner or later (I think Maxwell Lord also has suspicions at the very least). The question now is: how is she going to react.

I'm telling you now: She's not going to be any different. That's right, Cat Grant has no problems telling Supergirl to grab her coffee and her lunch, except, now that she knows "Kira" is Supergirl, she's going to hold her to Superhuman standards "I've noticed you can move faster than a speeding bullet and shoot lasers from your eyes. So tell me Kira, why is my lunch cold?"

However, putting it at 50/50 Team Supergirl pulls something and Cat forgets about Kara being Supergirl by the end of the next episode. If that happens, that'll be too bad though, Cat could be AWESOME as the unsolicited advisor to the DEO and can end up feeding the missions to James/Winn/Kara.

"Kira, to be a successful woman you must do it ALL. So go save the city from the Villain-of-the-Week, Catco from its latest disaster, and get me a salad on the way back."

[RaistlinSees]

Just saw the latest episode and I think the show is turning out to be pretty good

[Chen]

End of the last episode:

Wasn't a terrible episode up until the end bit. How they thought bringing a bunch of people with kryptonite weapons to fight kryptonians who have suits making them immune to that was a good idea I don't know. Especially when you're one ace in the hole is also a kryptonian who DOESN'T have a suit making her immune to kryptonite. Fortunately none of the bad guys are smart enough to pick up the weapons and shoot Kara with them. Plus bringing in the whole team made it so Hank couldn't really let loose any of his powers which certainly would have helped things. No he went and started punching one of the kryptonians. All the kryptonians seem to under-use their super speed in absolutely ridiculous ways. I mean that guy who Lord short in the eyes? Come on now, you had to move to 2 feet to either side to avoid that.

The whole "take off your glasses" scene was just silly, but I'm hoping that was intentionally poking fun at the whole thing about the glasses somehow hiding her identity (same as Clark). Cat knowing will be interesting for upcoming episodes though. Curious as to how they'll deal with that though. I mean is there any real point in Kara still "working" there?

[JadedDM]

Damn, Benoist knocks another one out of the park. That scene with her holo-mom was outright heartwrenching. And some pretty nice fight scenes, too.

Um, and while I'm no computer expert or anything, I am pretty sure if you want to hack someone's computer, it's not the monitor you want to bug.

Aside from that, though, great episode.

[The New Bruceski]

As far as the monitor, Dell makes all-in-one PCs that look pretty much like that, my dad has one. It's basically a large tablet.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

As far as the monitor, Dell makes all-in-one PCs that look pretty much like that, my dad has one. It's basically a large tablet.

one of the guys I know from game night has what he calls a work station. It's like that, and it's basically a big tablet. He uses it in the game room, and it access a computer up in his office that's set up as a server. A couple of us bring lap tops and tablets to the house and use his server...

[LokeyITP]

It wasn't awful.

Feeling that two eps were frankensteined together or something, the Kryptonian plot is missing a lot of setup (unless it was throwaway from episodes ago I forgot). We get enough on Astrid to make a few guesses but don't know what they're after or why they're doing it the stupid way.

[The Troubadour]

[...] the Kryptonian plot is missing a lot of setup

Indeed. That, and it just didn't mesh well with the B-plot about CatCo's internal power struggles.
Plus, it's really stupid we're getting all these flashbacks to Kara's relationship with her aunt now, instead of back when the latter first appeared.
I was also bothered by how Henshaw's character (especially in light of the latest reveal) fits really poorly with his early characterization, particularly in the pilot, until I read the twist wasn't actually planned from the start.

[Avilan the Grey]

I don't feel we need more I than we already have. I DO however feel like we often expect too much setup because we are just used to be treated as morons by the writers.

[The Troubadour]

On the contrary, I'd say getting infodumps right as the plot unfolds is a sign of the writers underestimating the audience's intelligence - as if we had the memory spans of goldfishes.

[LokeyITP]

Good writers do both, give you a reminder of what's going on while adding characterization or other information at the same time. Bad writers pick a random character to forget things.

So was there something I missed? Why are the Kryptos at LordCo?

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Good writers do both, give you a reminder of what's going on while adding characterization or other information at the same time. Bad writers pick a random character to forget things.

So was there something I missed? Why are the Kryptos at LordCo?

here is what we know:

Lord is one of the smartest engineers in the world.
Lord made a train that ran green.
Lord had a BFG
Kyrptonians have a plan but we don't know it(and the main cast doesn't either.)
The kryptonian leader is some kind of eco terrorist that thinks the earth is going in the same direction of krypton.

so my guess...the alien force is going there to steal technology to change something...

[Avilan the Grey]

Well, that was interesting.

Lord is definitely playing more "Lex Luthor Lite / Fascist asshat" than "Car Salesman / WWE promotor".
I kind of prefer him in the latter role; having more than one LexCorp is annoying.

So, WHO is that girl? Any guesses?

[Reddish Mage]

Well, that was interesting.

Lord is definitely playing more "Lex Luthor Lite / Fascist asshat" than "Car Salesman / WWE promotor".
I kind of prefer him in the latter role; having more than one LexCorp is annoying.

So, WHO is that girl? Any guesses?

I find it odd thinking of Lord as a fascist when he's only expressed libertarian views. He has anti-nationalist/statist notions and thinking. He isn't a would-be ruler, he's a vigilante.

He appears to be a mistaken and a racist vigilante, aiming at Kara and the DEO rather than the bad guys.


here is what we know:

Lord is one of the smartest engineers in the world.
Lord made a train that ran green.
Lord had a BFG
Kyrptonians have a plan but we don't know it(and the main cast doesn't either.)
The kryptonian leader is some kind of eco terrorist that thinks the earth is going in the same direction of krypton.

so my guess...the alien force is going there to steal technology to change something...

Or attacking Lord because he's the "great green hope" and the Kryptonians wanted to make the point that his (and human) efforts are completely insufficient or actually harmful. Lord is the competition.

Either way, whatever Naan was planning went sideways and he ended up making a (successful) play to get Astra back instead.

[Avilan the Grey]

I find it odd thinking of Lord as a fascist when he's only expressed libertarian views. He has anti-nationalist/statist notions and thinking. He isn't a would-be ruler, he's a vigilante.

He appears to be a mistaken and a racist vigilante, aiming at Kara and the DEO rather than the bad guys.

Oh I disagree.
He seems to be the perfect fit for a revolutionary that reluctantly takes charge after he happens to kill off the ruling body. He is typical Dictator material.

[Sliver]

It rarely happens and I'm not usually too critical when watching shows, but I hated this episode. The few things that I approved of were completely ruined a few minutes later.

[Avilan the Grey]

It rarely happens and I'm not usually too critical when watching shows, but I hated this episode. The few things that I approved of were completely ruined a few minutes later.

Huh.
I really liked this episode. But then I really haven't disliked a single one.

[JadedDM]

The only thing that bothered me is:

How the heck did Lord sneak a camera onto Alex's purse without her knowing? It's not shown, so we can only guess, but it's hard to believe she'd lower her guard enough to let him do that or even worse, leave her purse unaccompanied. But even that aside, it's even harder to swallow she wouldn't notice the red light on it.

[dancrilis]

It rarely happens and I'm not usually too critical when watching shows, but I hated this episode. The few things that I approved of were completely ruined a few minutes later.

If you just accept that it is protagonist centered morality it is easier to tolerate.

So yes killing sentient creatures is fine, mind raping guards is fine, breaking and entering is fine, not informing the authorities (law enforcement/event organisers) of a likely terrorist attack and playing along with the terrorists game until it is too late is fine etc ... but only when the goodies do it, when the baddies do it is it not fine.

If you allow yourself that simple allowance the rest of the show starts to be fine - the same way that in Arrow Oliver is allowed to kill people when it becomes convenient or he is having a bad day - you just accept it as part of the show that you are meant to allow your brain to gloss over how the goodies are just as bad - maybe worst - than the baddies.

[Avilan the Grey]

If you just accept that it is protagonist centered morality it is easier to tolerate.

So yes killing sentient creatures is fine, mind raping guards is fine, breaking and entering is fine, not informing the authorities (law enforcement/event organisers) of a likely terrorist attack and playing along with the terrorists game until it is too late is fine etc ... but only when the goodies do it, when the baddies do it is it not fine.

If you allow yourself that simple allowance the rest of the show starts to be fine - the same way that in Arrow Oliver is allowed to kill people when it becomes convenient or he is having a bad day - you just accept it as part of the show that you are meant to allow your brain to gloss over how the goodies are just as bad - maybe worst - than the baddies.

First of all, it's like you never read a comic book in your life.
Superman (or Batman or Thor or...) NEVER calls the authorities and say "Suspected Terrorist attack at X". He just flies there.

But more importantly... maybe you need to re-watch the episode if you think mind-raping guards is fine?


The only thing that bothered me is:

How the heck did Lord sneak a camera onto Alex's purse without her knowing? It's not shown, so we can only guess, but it's hard to believe she'd lower her guard enough to let him do that or even worse, leave her purse unaccompanied. But even that aside, it's even harder to swallow she wouldn't notice the red light on it.

The red light is there for the audience's benefit, it is not really there for the characters.
It's the same reason bombs counting down beeps with every second and nobody hears it (happens a lot in shows) or for that matter why snipers in many games have ultra-powerful laser sights that makes a red trail to them (so the player knows when to dodge). It's a visual aid aimed at the audience.

That said, our dear agent seems a little bit too trusting, or a little bit too overconfident. The camera could have been placed by a person faking being the waiter for example.

[BWR]

mind raping guards is fine,


I'm pretty sure J'onn didn't think it was 'fine', considering how torn up about it he seemed afterwards.

[dancrilis]

First of all, it's like you never read a comic book in your life.
Superman (or Batman or Thor or...) NEVER calls the authorities and say "Suspected Terrorist attack at X". He just flies there.
Actually frequently they do work with non-corrupt law enforcement to help them save innocent lives while the hero deals with the baddie, also Winslow is not the hero he under-duress took part in a bombing scheme at a event where children where present - almost anything else he could have done would have been better.


But more importantly... maybe you need to re-watch the episode if you think mind-raping guards is fine?
There was no purpose to mind-raping that guard - he could have knocked him out and left.
Guard: Hey boss - it was a guy that looked like you ... I know nothing else.
This is something what would have shown up anyway when people were questioned about missing security tapes and what was going on (the female employee would likely have remembered that she also say a guy that looked like her boss).

In fact having the guard mind-raped leaves more questions for anyone investigating to answer and works to confirm that Lord is correct to be suspicious of aliens (and in this case the government).

But we know that J'onn J'onzz is a goodie so his mind-rape is fine a 'necessary evil' if you will (despite it being completely unnecessary).


I'm pretty sure J'onn didn't think it was 'fine', considering how torn up about it he seemed afterwards.
Oh yea I feel real sorry for the poor mind-rapist - I mean from his perspective that guard was basically asking for it, and after it was over he felt bad about what he did - which really fixes everything.

[Avilan the Grey]

Oh yea I feel real sorry for the poor mind-rapist - I mean from his perspective that guard was basically asking for it, and after it was over he felt bad about what he did - which really fixes everything.

Well, I guess James Bond is much nicer, just shooting the guy.
Seriously though, how do you think people like this, and organizations like this, operate? Of course normally it's not on your own soil, but anyway.

[Sliver]

If you just accept that it is protagonist centered morality it is easier to tolerate.

It's not the morality of the episode that bothered me, but the episode had too much stupidity for me...

Lucy getting pissed at James for not saying the things she wants to hear while still being supportive? I liked the fact that he seemed aware that working together, especially with him being close to the same reason their relationship crashed last time, isn't the best thing for them, and if she were to accept the job just so she can be close to him, it will go poorly. But then, he reveals that it was just about him regretting not working on the field.

I liked how the kiss between Kara and Winn was handled. It felt inevitable that he would take her words and body language as an invitation, especially since I'm fine with ignoring a lot of the pilot, which is the major part of the awkwardness behind the friendship. Her pulling away, but being understanding about it? That was great. Him admitting his feelings was great too. But finding out that the reason she pulled away was not because she didn't have that sort of feelings about him, but that she isn't sure? I can see that, but I still don't like it. She is basically saying that she never considered being more than friends with him, and just now thinks about it?

JJ's glowing red eyes when he is disguises as Lord is just too much. It is obviously him, and not Lord having a clone, and it is made even more obvious with everything he does. We don't need his eyes to glow to go "aha! NOT LORD!" The writers think that we are as stupid as their characters. And why did he need to transform before the mind-rape? Or do it in the first place?!

The camera planted in Alex's purse is really stupid, and happened just because the plot required it. Alex shouldn't be so incompetent to make such a thing possible, especially since she already suspects such Lord.

Kara again never utilizes her powers. The only times she uses her x-ray vision, it is meaningless. Either everything is covered in lead, or she does nothing with it. She scanned to see that there are bombs and that the Toymaker will be activating them, but she did nothing with that but hurry everybody so she can make a block of ice. She could have used superspeed to gather the bombs and throw them away to a safe place, but no. She entered the Toymaker's warehouse and didn't bother to scan for his location, nor to see that the obviously-not-child isn't actually a child. She was caught in that silly trap, and it actually slowed her down for more than a second.

And do they expect me to believe that in a toy convention, that many kids, of varying ages, would stand and listen quietly to some boring guy lecturing, just because he makes toys? With no adults next to them, holding and shushing them? Tons of toys next to them, and the kids are standing patiently and listening? Kara shouldn't bother saving that convention. These kids are all dead inside already.

[BWR]

Oh yea I feel real sorry for the poor mind-rapist - I mean from his perspective that guard was basically asking for it, and after it was over he felt bad about what he did - which really fixes everything.

Or maybe it was more like "best of a bad situation. I knew it was a bad idea and I never should have gone along with it. It's a ****ty thing to do but letting them know anything about me or the people who work with me is even worse because it puts not only me but the entire DEO and probably even more people at risk. Now I have to live with doing this again and man do I feel like ****"

I think you are ascribing motives and rationalizations to the characters that are not evident in the show.

[Reddish Mage]

The only thing that bothered me is:

How the heck did Lord sneak a camera onto Alex's purse without her knowing? It's not shown, so we can only guess, but it's hard to believe she'd lower her guard enough to let him do that or even worse, leave her purse unaccompanied. But even that aside, it's even harder to swallow she wouldn't notice the red light on it.

Didn't Alex show how unused to fine food she was? She obviously didn't know how drunk that fine champagne was making her.



Or maybe it was more like "best of a bad situation. I knew it was a bad idea and I never should have gone along with it. It's a ****ty thing to do but letting them know anything about me or the people who work with me is even worse because it puts not only me but the entire DEO and probably even more people at risk. Now I have to live with doing this again and man do I feel like ****"

I think you are ascribing motives and rationalizations to the characters that are not evident in the show.

I think someone can just look objectively at what happened and See that J'on's actions seems a bit out of proportion to the threat the guard posed, especially since he left the amnesiac guard behind, and Lord figured out everything he would have if the guard still had his memory...that is everything if J'on didn't need to turn into Hank before doing the mind-wipe...

I think the best way to defend the mindwipe is that J'on panicked, and that isn't a very good reason.

[Avilan the Grey]

I really like the design of the White Martian.
Unfortunately everything involving J'on really shows off the lack of budget compared to a motion picture. All green martians always look extremely CGI-y.

SO, dating the boss' kid huh? Always a "good" idea, though I root for them.

[Zmeoaice]

Well, I think it's pretty official that Lord = Luthor by now.

Interesting that Bizarro didn't exist in this world, which is why the clone could have been named Bizarro

[random11]

The show started good, it had great potential, but somewhere along the line something went wrong.

In the beginning, we had Kara's relationship with sister (that wasn't just talking about dates and love), we had a complex boss and a conflict between wanting to be a hero while remaining hidden.

When episode 8 finished I cheered. Finally, there is a character in a superhero series that managed to use some sense and research to reveal a secret identity!
It could have been awesome if a character like Cat had to balance her desire to publish the truth and knowing the harm it will do.
Instead? we waste a great reveal of the martian to Kara in a 10 second "I heard you talking" just so he can use his shapeshifting powers to fool Cat and go back to Kara pretending to be a bumbling idiot in front of her boss.

And is it so hard to ask for ONE bloody female character that isn't defined almost only on her male love interests and/or love triangles?
Again, it started so good, bus somewhere Kara lost her own personality and is defined by the people she dates and refuses to date.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind if a woman has several love interests, I just don't want her character in the series to be defined almost only by this kind of choices.

And now we have the last nail on the coffin in the form of a villain saying that she knows Kara loves James because she shares her genes.......
Might as well use a robotic voice saying "We are genetically compatible, therefore I love you"


I really want this show to succeed.
Please, don't repeat the same mistakes that so many other shows used and overused.

[Chen]

Last episode

You know I could get behind if they did something shocking like having Kara or the sister kill Lord or something. But no, they captured him, he'll get broken out somehow and it'll all be goofy again. Hell even having MM erase his mind would have been at least a little interesting. But nope, that wouldn't go well for a prime time show. So you have all the upcoming drama about Lord escaping and whatnot.

Forgot the fact that the ridiculous love triangle (or square I guess since there were 3 guys in this episode) took up a stupid amount of time here. The fight scenes were boring. The show really seems to be going way downhill. Though I guess looking back it was never that great to begin with...

[Clertar]

After the holiday break I was feeling a little generous and decided to go back to some of the new shows from the fall that turned up to be weak. All I can say is that Supergirl has become even weaker, it's not just a little lame like the CW ones, but actually embarrassing to watch. Like someone put together the Power Rangers and Xena, 20 years later. I didn't make it to the end of the episode. In retrospect and in comparison, the Hellblazer adaptation deserves more praise than it got.

[lt_murgen]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind if a woman has several love interests, I just don't want her character in the series to be defined almost only by this kind of choices.


But isn't the entire show being driven by Kara's emotions?

She was afraid to use her powers, until someone she loved (her sister) was in danger.
She was afraid to become supergirl, until the hot guy revealed that her cousin thought it would be a good idea.
She was afraid to confront her aunt, and had to overcome that with the help and support of those she cared about.
She was afraid to hear the "truth" about her mother, until her sister gave her courage.
She was afraid to confront her boss, until the hot guy who cares about her showed he had her back.

And so on.

In some ways, it is a more profound answer to the question of "Why does Superman protect the humans?" It seems to be 'a sense of duty on his part. For this incarnation of Supergirl, it is because she genuinely cares. Caring is her defining trait, and the shows various male interactions just play that out. Can you honestly care about beings so weak and frail, and what does that caring cost the super-person.

[Avilan the Grey]

Kara is being defined by her love interests?
In what universe?

[Zmeoaice]

So who thinks Alex hiding that she killed Astra is going to blow up in her face?

[Avilan the Grey]

So who thinks Alex hiding that she killed Astra is going to blow up in her face?

I'm for one.

Also,
why not chop her hand off instead?

[lt_murgen]

Personally, I am disappointed at Astra's death. Now you have her husband the megalomaniac left. Sad. He is such a cardboard villain. Add in the overused "you killed my (fill in the blank), prepare to die" motive, and it becomes way too common.

It would have been better if it had been Alex killing the husband. Denying Kara her revenge, driving a permanent wedge between Alex and Astra. That wedge between the old and new family would have been interesting to explore.


Was it odd that no one bothered to freak out / insta-kill the Black Mercy as it crawled off Kara? Yes, it died, but as it moved off they didn't know that.

[random11]

Kara is being defined by her love interests?
In what universe?

Not completely, but it did go this way in the last few episodes (maybe except the most recent one)

We started with one geek that helped her, and he turned into a rejected love interest.
A reporter that worked with Superman? Love interest and part of a strange love triangle.
A demanding boss who discovered her identity using her resources and wit? Nope, last episode it was evaded and she was mostly the mother of another guy Kara is dating.
Even the talks between Kara and her sister had an increased amount of time talking about relationship with men on expense of other topics.

It's still not ruined, and it does have a chance to abandon the focus on the needless romantic plots, but if the focus continues then yes, Kara WILL be defined more on her love interests.


BTW, in the last episode, I remember this plant from somewhere.
Does anyone know if it was in an episode or a movie starring superman?

[Avilan the Grey]

Not completely, but it did go this way in the last few episodes (maybe except the most recent one)

We started with one geek that helped her, and he turned into a rejected love interest.
A reporter that worked with Superman? Love interest and part of a strange love triangle.
A demanding boss who discovered her identity using her resources and wit? Nope, last episode it was evaded and she was mostly the mother of another guy Kara is dating.
Even the talks between Kara and her sister had an increased amount of time talking about relationship with men on expense of other topics.

It's still not ruined, and it does have a chance to abandon the focus on the needless romantic plots, but if the focus continues then yes, Kara WILL be defined more on her love interests.


BTW, in the last episode, I remember this plant from somewhere.
Does anyone know if it was in an episode or a movie starring superman?

Um...
Yes, those things happened, but you have to explain how that somewhow "defines her". Seriously. There is NOTHING there that "defines her".

[ryuplaneswalker]

So I watched the first episode.

Does the whole needlessly trite

"On my planet Women bow on their knees to men"

stop happening? cause I really don't need that in an otherwise entertaining and fun show.

[BWR]

So I watched the first episode.

Does the whole needlessly trite

"On my planet Women bow on their knees to men"

stop happening? cause I really don't need that in an otherwise entertaining and fun show.

Was that the first baddie? Because I can't even remember that happened.
So no, that was pretty much a one-off. And the writing in general does get better.

Latest episode was a bit worse than the preceding ones. The general nature of the episode was no surprise to anyone with a passing familiarity to famous Superman stories, but though the plot worked well enough in the show, the title didn't. I dislike Alex who is generally annoying and incompetent and gets away with everything despite messing up all over the place. At least it seems like the plot is going places now, especially with the death of the aunt. Though I do wonder how these baddies plan to handle Superman, who, let's face it, would be a far bigger hurdle to overcome than Supergirl.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Though I do wonder how these baddies plan to handle Superman, who, let's face it, would be a far bigger hurdle to overcome than Supergirl.

Well, only having gone as far as the first episode, the big bad lady seems to be Kryptonian so she could probably take care of The Boyscout if she has been practicing for the 20 or so years they have been on earth.

[Darth Credence]

It seems like they are running into a problem with having Superman in the world. The latest is a global threat - they haven't just taken out communications in National City. If this was happening, Superman would certainly be getting involved - he would not see a global threat, then realize that those are his cousin's bad guys, so he will just let her handle it.

I don't know how they could have done Supergirl without doing Superman, but I think they should have tried. Maybe having the show set at a time when Superman is off planet for a while, maybe even having him leave for a bit because he knows she can handle things.

Still enjoying the show, though.

[Zmeoaice]

I don't know how they could have done Supergirl without doing Superman, but I think they should have tried. Maybe having the show set at a time when Superman is off planet for a while, maybe even having him leave for a bit because he knows she can handle things.

Isn't that a problem for all superhero universe stories though? Especially in the MCU films, when there's a global threat, but just the hero of the story and their quirky friends deal with it.

Anyhow they probably can't have Superman because the WB executives won't allow it because he's in DC Live Action Crapverse.

[ryuplaneswalker]

It seems like they are running into a problem with having Superman in the world. The latest is a global threat - they haven't just taken out communications in National City. If this was happening, Superman would certainly be getting involved - he would not see a global threat, then realize that those are his cousin's bad guys, so he will just let her handle it.

I don't know how they could have done Supergirl without doing Superman, but I think they should have tried. Maybe having the show set at a time when Superman is off planet for a while, maybe even having him leave for a bit because he knows she can handle things.

Still enjoying the show, though.

Simple, next episode have a news story on the bottom scrawl..about lex luthor unleashing a giant luthor bot by accident.

[Runestar]

Just watched the latest episode (it broadcasts on Friday evenings in my country). Interesting that Maxwell is now the reluctant helper. This sort of "let's set aside our differences to deal with a greater threat" truces never last, and I wonder how long the series intends to milk it.

[Chen]

Isn't that a problem for all superhero universe stories though? Especially in the MCU films, when there's a global threat, but just the hero of the story and their quirky friends deal with it.

Yeah consider Thor, Ragnarok. You'd think Thor, once back on earth, would try to contact Tony or Banner or something when the literal fate of the UNIVERSE is at stake. Or you know maybe have Cap give a bit of a Shoutout to Thor for some help in the events of the Winter Solider. Sure maybe he doesn't trust Tony, but Thor was a pretty standup guy who probably wouldn't have gone for the whole killing random citizens who might be a future threat kind of thing.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Isn't that a problem for all superhero universe stories though? Especially in the MCU films, when there's a global threat, but just the hero of the story and their quirky friends deal with it.

Anyhow they probably can't have Superman because the WB executives won't allow it because he's in DC Live Action Crapverse.

Young Justice the cartoon used to handle it by having not only the main team break into parts, but the JLA (and the most powerful JLA ever in non comic book form*) be said to be doing other things... like a lot of shows had "and x is doing y" drops...



The League is permitted to operate by means of a U.N. Charter. League members have no jurisdiction within the borders of nations that have not signed the U.N. Charter, such as Bialya. The League also has a relationship with the U.S. government.

• Aquaman (King Orin/Arthur Curry)
• Batman (Bruce Wayne)
• Flash (Barry Allen)
• Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
• Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz)
• Superman (Kal-El/Clark Kent)
• Wonder Woman (Princess Diana)
• Atom (Ray Palmer)
• Black Canary (Dinah Lance)
• Black Lightning (Jefferson Pierce)
• Captain Atom (Nathaniel Adams)
• Captain Marvel (Billy Batson)
• Zatara; later replaced by Doctor Fate (Nabu)
• Green Arrow (Oliver Queen)
• Green Lantern (Guy Gardner)
• Green Lantern (John Stewart)
• Hawkman (Katar Hol)
• Hawkwoman (Shayera Thal)
• Icon (Augustus Freeman)
• Plastic Man
• Red Tornado (John Smith)


Icon, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel and Captain Atom are all basically superman, some more powerful... that part of the line up alone is crazy... add wonder woman and it's gonzo nuts...
3 active Green Lanterns

now that makes the league what batman would call 'top heavy', but they round it out with thinkers like Plastic man, arrow, cannary and the atom...

taking those and adding any magic at all is just huge in power... and Zatarra is awesome, but to replace him with such a huge deal as Dr Fate just puts this over the top...

now remember that team isn't even close to the main focus of this series, and they pull that off well.

[The New Bruceski]

I liked how in the last episode of YJ they had stuff happening all over the planet that needed everyone scrambled, so when they cut to someone in the Watchtower co-ordinating it's Random Normal Guy trying to handle things. They meant EVERYONE.

[Zmeoaice]

SO Supergirl just killed the bad guy of the episode

So isn't it pretty hypocritical for her to lecture "Hank" about this stuff? She didn't even seem disturbed by what she did.

[dancrilis]

SO Supergirl just killed the bad guy of the episode

So isn't it pretty hypocritical for her to lecture "Hank" about this stuff? She didn't even seem disturbed by what she did.

As mentioned previously:

If you just accept that it is protagonist centered morality it is easier to tolerate.

Effectively Kara is the hero so she is in the right.

[Zmeoaice]

At least the other examples were addressed. This seems like a rather gaping flaw.

[lt_murgen]

Yeah consider Thor, Ragnarok. You'd think Thor, once back on earth, would try to contact Tony or Banner or something when the literal fate of the UNIVERSE is at stake. Or you know maybe have Cap give a bit of a Shoutout to Thor for some help in the events of the Winter Solider. Sure maybe he doesn't trust Tony, but Thor was a pretty standup guy who probably wouldn't have gone for the whole killing random citizens who might be a future threat kind of thing.

Up until now, they have done a good job of timing so that they don't need overlap:

1.1 Iron Man (2008) - Only Iron man and SHIELD, and SHIELD was involved.

1.2 The Incredible Hulk (2008) - Stark Tech was used against hulk, but given the antagonistic relationship between the government and Stark at the time, it makes sense he wasn't involved

1.3 Iron Man 2 (2010)- More Stark and SHIELD.

1.4 Thor (2011) - In theory, Stark could have (and should have) been brought in to study the energy effects of the hammer. There is the throw away line about The Destroyer "Is that one of Starks?" To which Coulson replies, "I don't know, the man never tells me anything." This, at least, implies a working relationship between Stark and SHIELD.

1.5 Captain America: The First Avenger (2011) - past history, so only SSR.

1.6 Marvel's The Avengers (2012) - first time team up.

2.1 Iron Man 3 (2013) - Despite being seen rebuilding Stark Tower into Avenger's tower, Stark has retreated to his Malibu home again. PTSD-induced isolation? But there is a serious gap- where was SHIELD in the Mandarin hunt? You could argue that the Hydra element of SHIELD was keeping Black Widow & Hawkeye running around on wild goose chases to keep them out of play. But some mention of SHIELD involvement is seriously missing.

2.2 Thor: The Dark World (2013) - Happened over the course of 1 day, and Thor was busy trying to save his love. Still, given how fast Iron Man could fly, he could have been there. Perhaps he was hunting other monsters 'portaled' onto earth. Still, a solid reference was missing.

2.3 Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014) - Thor was back in Asgard, but where was Tony? In the very least he should have been on the Hydra targets list. Of course, the final battle was brief, but if Tony was in New York, he could have been in D.C. in minutes. That needs to be explained.

2.4 Guardians of the Galaxy (2014) - elsewhere in the Universe.

2.5 Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015) - suddenly everyone is back and working together?


It does seem as if they are struggling more and more to keep their universe knit together.

[JadedDM]

SO Supergirl just killed the bad guy of the episode

You sure about that? Because it was my understanding that the character in question is going to be returning in an upcoming episode.

[Zmeoaice]

She raised his neck and we heard a snap, which usually means death. They should have showed the scene better if that wasn't their intention.

[theNater]

Yeah consider Thor, Ragnarok. You'd think Thor, once back on earth, would try to contact Tony or Banner or something when the literal fate of the UNIVERSE is at stake. Or you know maybe have Cap give a bit of a Shoutout to Thor for some help in the events of the Winter Solider. Sure maybe he doesn't trust Tony, but Thor was a pretty standup guy who probably wouldn't have gone for the whole killing random citizens who might be a future threat kind of thing.
Thor doesn't have a cell phone. How do you propose he contact or be contacted by these people?


1.4 Thor (2011) - In theory, Stark could have (and should have) been brought in to study the energy effects of the hammer.
Why? SHIELD has its own scientists, and there doesn't seem to be any immediate danger. What's the benefit to bringing Stark on? Remember that it has to outweigh the annoyances of working with him.


2.1 Iron Man 3 (2013) - Despite being seen rebuilding Stark Tower into Avenger's tower, Stark has retreated to his Malibu home again. PTSD-induced isolation? But there is a serious gap- where was SHIELD in the Mandarin hunt? You could argue that the Hydra element of SHIELD was keeping Black Widow & Hawkeye running around on wild goose chases to keep them out of play. But some mention of SHIELD involvement is seriously missing.
Tony isn't part of the official investigation. Assuming SHIELD is investigating the Mandarin, why would they contact him, instead of sharing their information to the US government through official channels?


2.2 Thor: The Dark World (2013) - Happened over the course of 1 day, and Thor was busy trying to save his love. Still, given how fast Iron Man could fly, he could have been there. Perhaps he was hunting other monsters 'portaled' onto earth. Still, a solid reference was missing.
As I said to Chen, Thor doesn't have a cell phone. So you have to account for Thor flying to New York to give Tony the heads-up.


2.3 Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014) - Thor was back in Asgard, but where was Tony? In the very least he should have been on the Hydra targets list. Of course, the final battle was brief, but if Tony was in New York, he could have been in D.C. in minutes. That needs to be explained.
While Insight is targeting, Tony is targeted in Avengers tower, as shown roughly 27 seconds into this clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ru5wM7fl7g).

As for getting in touch with him, he's a known associate of Cap's. It is reasonable to assume any line of communication Cap has to Tony is being monitored by Hydra.


She raised his neck and we heard a snap, which usually means death.
And he fell over with his eyes open, too. Usually we expect the eyes to close if he's just unconscious.

[Ranxerox]

She raised his neck and we heard a snap, which usually means death. They should have showed the scene better if that wasn't their intention.

I didn't hear a snap. Are you sure about that?

[dancrilis]

I didn't hear a snap. Are you sure about that?

A definite cracking sound - could he survive; maybe, but just like when she murdered Red Tornado (who may also return - comic books and all that) she had no reason to suspect that she was doing anything but killing someone.

[Friv]

I suspect one of two things happened:

1) The moment was meant to be Kara breaking the guy's power suit, rather than killing him, and the crack was bad sound editing, or
2) The script had her knocking him out, the director changed things at the last minute, and they didn't alter the dialogue.

Because yeah, no one behaves like Kara killed someone, and she just finished a speech about how you don't get killed for committing crimes.

[Chen]

Thor doesn't have a cell phone. How do you propose he contact or be contacted by these people?

I'm sure Natalie Portman had one. Or Selvig having one in his home once they got there. Prior to that he could just have beamed himself down to Stark towers via Bifrost if he had to. The reverse could work too in that Steve would just need to look up into the sky and tell Heimdal to get him to get Thor to come join him for a few minutes.

[Sliver]

Gotta say, was very amused by Kara, a minute into the episode, saying "I don't kill."

[Ranxerox]

What ever it looked like, Supergirl did not kill Master Jailer. The actress that plays Alex has apparently said so much in a tweet. So the Master Jailer doesn't count as it was just a poorly edited knock out.

Of course that still leaves the "killing" of Red Tornado. It was hypothesized that it was developing sentience at the time that she had destroyed it. If so that would count as a killing. However, it had just come very close to strangling her to death, and hadn't done or said anything that exactly screamed sentience. I mean it is not like it was delivering Shakespearean soliloquys about the cruel irony of life; it was just trying to kill her. So, Kara has taken the position that killing doesn't count, and given that it was acting like a mad dog and the evidence for its emerging sentience was dubious that doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.

Is there some other Supergirl kill that I am forgetting?

[Sliver]

Perhaps, but she didn't seemed phased this episode, when Indigo seemed to explode in front of her. Sure, it was a necessary counterattack, but she should show some thought and emotion when tough choices need to be made... Man of Steel had a better reaction when Supes killed Zod, IMO.

Even if you ignore Red Tornado's issue and accept she didn't kill the Jailer, this very episode should somewhat clash with her opinion that killing isn't okay. Otherwise, the only reason she was angry at GM was because it was her aunt that died...

[theNater]

I'm sure Natalie Portman had one. Or Selvig having one in his home once they got there.
Neither of them is going to get past whatever systems Tony has in place to screen out prank calls.


Prior to that he could just have beamed himself down to Stark towers via Bifrost if he had to.
Bifrost isn't a Star Trek transporter; you can't just go wherever you want. You pick the place it goes that's closest to where you want to be, and are on your own from there. Remember how they had to get back to the Bifrost point at the start of the first Thor?


The reverse could work too in that Steve would just need to look up into the sky and tell Heimdal to get him to get Thor to come join him for a few minutes.
There is so much wrong with this. Assuming Steve knows about Heimdall(he may not), it's pretty clear Heimdall has to look for something to see it, and there's no guarantee he'd be watching Steve at the right moment. Then there's the fact that Heimdall is not a messenger service and doesn't work for Steve or for Thor, so there's no reason for him to relay the message even if he hears it.


Otherwise, the only reason she was angry at GM was because it was her aunt that died...
In fairness, that's a very understandable reason for one person to be mad at another.

[Ranxerox]

Perhaps, but she didn't seemed phased this episode, when Indigo seemed to explode in front of her. Sure, it was a necessary counterattack, but she should show some thought and emotion when tough choices need to be made... Man of Steel had a better reaction when Supes killed Zod, IMO.

Even if you ignore Red Tornado's issue and accept she didn't kill the Jailer, this very episode should somewhat clash with her opinion that killing isn't okay. Otherwise, the only reason she was angry at GM was because it was her aunt that died...

But she had already seen Indigo bust to pieces and disappear several times. The only difference was that the pieces were red not indigo this time and she screamed before hand. Watching it I assumed that Indigo was hurt and retreating, not dead. I suspect very few people watching the show thought that Indigo was gone for good. Why should Supergirl be the only one to just assume that the extremely hard to kill villain had been permanently offed by Winn's malware attack?

That being said, yes, the grudge that Kara has been holding against Hank since Astra's death has been completely unreasonable. When Alex killed Astra, Astra had been moments away from slaying Hank. If Hank gotten hold of a knife and rescued himself at the expense of Astra's life, what right does Kara have to judge? I mean, doesn't Hank carry enough survivor's guilt without having to feel guilty for the deaths of those who are trying to kill him? Kara saying that "there is always another way" was her being childish and unreasonable.

However, the reason that was being childish and unreasonable was because she was thinking with her heart and not her head. The payoff of this episode was not the defeat of Indigo, but Kara hugging her sister while holding Hank's hand. When this show works it always for emotional reason, not for reasons of story or plot. However, for these emotional payoffs to keep coming at a rate of one an episode Kara always has to be putting her heart out there, and sometimes this is going to cause her to take annoying stands.

[Reddish Mage]

No comments on this episode? It was an extreme...change.

I am much more of a fan of the way they did it with the first Smallville Red K episode...at first it's amusing, you get to see an interesting bad boy side of Clark, and then at the end of the episode they suddenly go from bad boy to sociopath and then suddenly the Red-K ring is gone. Red-K Clark "Kal" is an interesting character and more than infrequent presence on the show. He can be a villain or dangerous character but there's a fun side to him. The only way the episode could have been better was if the sudden evil sociopath angle was a little more subtle and gradual and a little less there and gone in minutes.

Here they skipped the fun and go straight to the sociopath.

The fact that the Red K episode is shown to significantly damage Kara's relationship with most of the cast and the entire city, coming on the heels of Lucy Lane's sudden exit...well the "Falling" of this episodes reminds me of the episode with "fall" in it that ends the third season of Charmed...you know the one, the season finale that nearly killed the show.

[The New Bruceski]

I'm just happy they had the bar nuts scene from Superman 3. And sad she didn't fight herself in a junkyard.

[BWR]

No comments on this episode? It was an extreme...change.

I am much more of a fan of the way they did it with the first Smallville Red K episode...at first it's amusing, you get to see an interesting bad boy side of Clark, and then at the end of the episode they suddenly go from bad boy to sociopath and then suddenly the Red-K ring is gone. Red-K Clark "Kal" is an interesting character and more than infrequent presence on the show. He can be a villain or dangerous character but there's a fun side to him. The only way the episode could have been better was if the sudden evil sociopath angle was a little more subtle and gradual and a little less there and gone in minutes.

Here they skipped the fun and go straight to the sociopath.

The fact that the Red K episode is shown to significantly damage Kara's relationship with most of the cast and the entire city, coming on the heels of Lucy Lane's sudden exit...well the "Falling" of this episodes reminds me of the episode with "fall" in it that ends the third season of Charmed...you know the one, the season finale that nearly killed the show.

They didn't entirely skip the fun. For a brief moment there Red K turned Kara into something more like a proper Supergirl - a bitchy teenager who isn't afraid to show off her awesomeness and refuses to take **** from anyone (as shown in her handling of Siobhan and getting back into Cat's good graces).