Further info on Death Urge power (Curse of Artaith players stay out)

[curious-puzzle]

First off, Curse of Artaith players; move along, nothing for you here.

Don't spoil terrible surprises for yourself :smallyuk:

Anywho, what I'm curious about is the interaction of Death Urge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/deathUrge.htm) and Power attack. The power states that the victim attacks themselves as a full-round action and automatically succeeds with a critical hit. There's nothing about how they attack themselves other than "the quickest method to end their life." If it's a max-power attack critical with a two-handed weapon, that's a lot quicker than not using power attack.

Any rulings you kind and helpful folk can share, or prior experience? Opinions are great too!

[Necroticplague]

Yes. The damage roll is still a melee damage roll, so PA still improves it.

[curious-puzzle]

But do you think the power would require the victim to strike themselves in the most damaging way possible, or does the compulsion end at making the victim attack him/herself?

[Vhaidara]

There was an old test of spite thread where someone hit a lightning mace abuser (extra attack on crit) with death urge. He had to keep critting himself to death.

[curious-puzzle]

lf I recall, he only stopped because he ran out of ammo:smallbiggrin:

Sorry, I think I'm being unclear. What I'm wondering is this:
Say big scary level 7 barbarian with a greataxe fails his save vs death urge. Is he simply rolling 3x (1d12+1.5Str) for damage, or would it be 3x (1d12+1.5Str +14 for max power Attack)?

[Vhaidara]

He's power attacking.

[Necroticplague]

But do you think the power would require the victim to strike themselves in the most damaging way possible, or does the compulsion end at making the victim attack him/herself?

Doing more damage ends their life more quickly, and they are compelled to end their lives as quickly as possible. If they can power attack, they will.

[curious-puzzle]

That's how I was reading it, excellent. Thank you very much!

[Zanos]

Doing more damage ends their life more quickly, and they are compelled to end their lives as quickly as possible. If they can power attack, they will.
An affected character with spellcasting won't try to cast finger of death or slaying living on themselves, so I'm going to have to disagree. Even if you're wielding a tiny dagger, you'll still stab yourself with that rather than provoke an AoO from a titan with a greatsword, because attacking yourself with the weapon takes priority. The spell states that you make an attack on yourself that deals damage as a critical hit. It doesn't say you include anything else, so power attack isn't included.

[Flickerdart]

An affected character with spellcasting won't try to cast finger of death or slaying living on themselves, so I'm going to have to disagree. Even if you're wielding a tiny dagger, you'll still stab yourself with that rather than provoke an AoO from a titan with a greatsword, because attacking yourself with the weapon takes priority. The spell states that you make an attack on yourself that deals damage as a critical hit. It doesn't say you include anything else, so power attack isn't included.
Your examples both include doing things that are not part of attacking. Power Attack is part of the attack - you just decide to attack more strongly.

[Zanos]

Your examples both include doing things that are not part of attacking. Power Attack is part of the attack - you just decide to attack more strongly.
Necos logic for power attacking was that it expedites the method of death, despite that other actions which should be allowed by the spell that would expedite death are not taken based on its mechanics.

The spell mentions nothing about power attacking yourself. More to the point, power attack requires that you make an attack roll, so you can't use it in this situation since you automatically hit yourself.

[Necroticplague]

More to the point, power attack requires that you make an attack roll, so you can't use it in this situation since you automatically hit yourself.

Actually, no it doesn't. You take a penalty to all melee attack rolls, and get a damage boost to all melee damage rolls. It doesn't matter if the melee damage roll didn't come from a melee attack roll. The attack from Death Urge is still a melee attack (it's specifically called out as such), and it's damage is still a melee damage roll, which is thus improved by Power Attack.

[curious-puzzle]

I can see Zanos' point, but I still agree with Necroticplague and Keledrath. It's certainly a bit of a sticky area, though.

[ben-zayb]

If we go by "all text is rules text", then PAing could make sense in an implied sort of way. However, I interpret it as doing only a strict set of instructions/actions, and PA (a free action), unlike reloading a bow, is never a requirement to be able to do any of the specifically enumerated actions, and is thus not apart of the power's effect.


By the way, ever since that ToS happened, were all succeeding threads that dealt with either crit, Death Urge, or crossbows, have it linked?:smalltongue:

[Necroticplague]

Not linked, but it's mentioned pretty much every time Aptitude Weapons, Lightning Maces, or Death Urge is brought up.