Craft: Poisonmaking and Minor Creation Help

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I'm currently working on a cohort who I think I may now like better than my actual character. If I have the chance, I'll be trying this character out in their own campaign. I've run into a snag in the rules, where I'm not entirely sure what's-what.

The character is a spellthief/duskblade who uses poison to help even the odds when they're hunting mages.

So far the character has ranks in craft: poisonmaking and the Hidden Talent feat, to get them psionic minor creation. This was the route suggested by every thread I had read on the subject, both on the forum and elsewhere. I have several problems, though.

First: Minor creation states that the material you create is gone in an hour. How is that worth-while? Doesn't that mean all the poison materials I've summoned are gone before I can properly craft them into anything?

Second: Even if I want to make poison with Minor creation I still need to make the check. With the rules as they are, even if the material stick around more than an hour, there's still a nasty check to be made (CD 35 for Black Lotus Extract). If I make the check I've only made one dose of poison, in a week, out of an entire basin of extract. If I want to make poison using all the extract I've created via Minor creation it would take years.

Someone help me understand all of this please.

[Malroth]

not just the ingredients but the finished poison is also a plant based material so can be conjured up directly if your'e skilled enough to make it on your own.

[stanprollyright]

1 cubic foot of poison is a lot of poison.

[icefractal]

You don't use Minor Creation to get materials for making poison, you use it to make the poison itself.

So you head out to adventure with no poison (or maybe just a couple doses for backup). When you're about to head into a dangerous area, you manifest Minor Creation and make a cubic foot of poison - which is a lot of doses. Then you use the poison as normal, for the next hour.

[stanprollyright]

Is there a way to improve your manifester level without taking psionic classes? Then it would last for more hours and you could create even bigger boatloads of poison.

[Telok]

The entire 'trick' here is based on assuming that the DM agrees that the vegetable matter created by the power includes the products refined from the vegetable matter.

Thus in theory you can use Minor Creation to fabricate a gallon of 200 proof alcohol, a gallon of the active component in giant hogweed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracleum_mantegazzianum) sap, a gallon of turpentine or naphtha, a gallon of n-heptane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_pine), or a gallon of any other substance it is possible to create by refining a plant.

The 'poison trick' is just the beginning. A little research and you can get much more interesting substances out of 'vegetable matter' than mere poison. But it requires a lenient DM.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The 'poison trick' is just the beginning. A little research and you can get much more interesting substances out of 'vegetable matter' than mere poison. But it requires a lenient DM.

It also requires you to justify how your character knows about those substances, especially in the case of things that a pseudo-medieval society has never heard of.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

The entire 'trick' here is based on assuming that the DM agrees that the vegetable matter created by the power includes the products refined from the vegetable matter.

Thus in theory you can use Minor Creation to fabricate a gallon of 200 proof alcohol, a gallon of the active component in giant hogweed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracleum_mantegazzianum) sap, a gallon of turpentine or naphtha, a gallon of n-heptane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_pine), or a gallon of any other substance it is possible to create by refining a plant.

The 'poison trick' is just the beginning. A little research and you can get much more interesting substances out of 'vegetable matter' than mere poison. But it requires a lenient DM.

What other interesting things could you create? The time limitation is an irritation for me, which has me thinking of just switching the feat out for something else. If it could be useful in other ways I'd opt to keep it.


Is there a way to improve your manifester level without taking psionic classes? Then it would last for more hours and you could create even bigger boatloads of poison.

Theoretically I could take the Practiced Manifester feat. That would require me to take an extra feat just to make the first feat palatable. I'm only taking the first feat so I can create/acquire and use poisons more easily. Four feats simply to use black lotus extract seems a bit much.

Are there any better/cheaper ways to acquire poisons?

[Telok]

It also requires you to justify how your character knows about those substances, especially in the case of things that a pseudo-medieval society has never heard of.

Napatha and turpentine date back to pre-medieval times. The ancient Greeks were very interested in setting things on fire and had some nasty napalm analogs. Various saps and other plant extracts have been used as medicine, poison, and drugs for just as long. This isn't a case of "they didn't know" it's a case of "we've forgotten how inventive our ancestors were in killing eack other". With the internet it's really easy to do a little research.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Napatha and turpentine date back to pre-medieval times. The ancient Greeks were very interested in setting things on fire and had some nasty napalm analogs. Various saps and other plant extracts have been used as medicine, poison, and drugs for just as long. This isn't a case of "they didn't know" it's a case of "we've forgotten how inventive our ancestors were in killing eack other". With the internet it's really easy to do a little research.

Most D&D worlds don't have internet. What alchemical knowledge is available is in the books and if your PC knows about any of it depends on his skills and experience, not your meta knowledge.

If you want to use Minor Creation to make something that's not in the books you'll have to justify to your DM how your character knows about it when no one else in the world does.
It doesn't matter if the ancient Greeks or the Romans or whoever else knew about it 2000 years ago in RL, because they never had any contact with the civilizations in your average D&D campaign setting.

[DrMartin]

Theoretically I could take the Practiced Manifester feat. That would require me to take an extra feat just to make the first feat palatable. I'm only taking the first feat so I can create/acquire and use poisons more easily.

I don't think that going by RAW that is allowed, as practiced manifester says: Choose a manifesting class that you possess. The powers you manifest from that class are more powerful...and hidden talent does not give you a manifester class.

If on the other hand you took a single dip in a manifester class, you could then take practiced manifester, and that would also bump your manifester level for hidden talent. But i get the feeling this is a much bigger investment in psionics that you envision your character taking :)

back to the subject at hand: some kind soul saved "minor creation and you: a small guide" from the wizards board. there is a rather long list of "real world" substances you could hope to describe as vegetal in origin: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444927-Minor-Creation-and-You-a-Small-Guide

Aside from poisons, creating plant-based drugs can be really useful. Dreammist from the Book of Vile Darkness is a rather cool assasination tool, for instance :)

Lords of Darkness has a slew of interesting drugs and alchemical items, among them the healing salve, that gives your character access to healing damage, and sakrash, a drug that provides a sort of mini mind-blank

[Telok]

Are there any better/cheaper ways to acquire poisons?

Poison crafter and Wild Cohort. Get a big snake, boost it's Con and take Ability Focus for all it's feats (I don't recall exactly but I think it stacks). Two feats and a slightly weakened animal companion for real poisons that aren't dispell or antimagic vulnerable.

Plus you won't get people arguing that only equipment, creatures, or plants explicitly in the books exists and that divination spells aren't able to answer questions.

[Curmudgeon]

You don't use Minor Creation to get materials for making poison, you use it to make the poison itself.
That only works with really high Craft (poisonmaking) skill.

Psionic Minor Creation works the same as Minor Creation, with a duration of 1 hour/level, and requiring an appropriate Craft skill check.
You must succeed on an appropriate skill check to make a complex item. Poison is an alchemically complex substance, and the appropriate Craft skill for making poison is Craft (poisonmaking). Regardless of what you're crafting, the Craft check requires time. Normally you make progress by the week, but you can also make a check for a day's work. In both cases you can increase the DC by multiples of 10 to reduce the time. For example, Bloodroot normally has a DC of 15 and a cost of 100 gp per dose. You would supply 1/3 the finished good's value in materials (for free via the power), but then would need to succeed at the skill check. Because you have to spend a full day before you're allowed to make the check, you would need to have a manifester level of at least 9 (8 hours for the crafting, and 1 hour to use the poison before it disappears). Then you're making a check in copper pieces. Your Craft (poisonmaking) result gets multiplied by the DC. So let's say you add +40 to the DC, making it DC 55 to create, and you somehow just make the check. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in cp, then you have completed the item. But you'll make only 55x55 = 3,025 cp for the day's work, or 30.25 gp. The cost of one dose of Bloodroot poison is 100 gp, so even with a hefty skill check you're not going to be able to make that in a day's work. And because the Psionic Minor Creation product expires in hours, you can't continue.

See the rules in Complete Adventurer on pages 97-98.

[sleepyphoenixx]

That only works with really high Craft (poisonmaking) skill.

Psionic Minor Creation works the same as Minor Creation, with a duration of 1 hour/level, and requiring an appropriate Craft skill check. Poison is an alchemically complex substance, and the appropriate Craft skill for making poison is Craft (poisonmaking). Regardless of what you're crafting, the Craft check requires time. Normally you make progress by the week, but you can also make a check for a day's work. In both cases you can increase the DC by multiples of 10 to reduce the time. For example, Bloodroot normally has a DC of 15 and a cost of 100 gp per dose. You would supply 1/3 the finished good's value in materials (for free via the power), but then would need to succeed at the skill check. Because you have to spend a full day before you're allowed to make the check, you would need to have a manifester level of at least 9 (8 hours for the crafting, and 1 hour to use the poison before it disappears). Then you're making a check in copper pieces. Your Craft (poisonmaking) result gets multiplied by the DC. So let's say you add +40 to the DC, making it DC 55 to create, and you somehow just make the check. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in cp, then you have completed the item. But you'll make only 55x55 = 3,025 cp for the day's work, or 30.25 gp. The cost of one dose of Bloodroot poison is 100 gp, so even with a hefty skill check you're not going to be able to make that in a day's work. And because the Psionic Minor Creation product expires in hours, you can't continue.

See the rules in Complete Adventurer on pages 97-98.

I've always interpreted it that the skill check on Fabricate and Minor Creation was part of the casting, so it doesn't take any extra time.
You just have to be able to make the appropriate check, so putting a few ranks into Craft (whatever) is a good idea unless you have really high int.
The saved time is a big part of the point of the spell and, in the case of Fabricate, the whole point. Otherwise you could just craft what you're making manually.

Your interpretation of the rules makes Fabricate do nothing craft doesn't already do and weakens Minor Creation so much it's almost not worth taking, so i'd say it's probably not the intended one.
I'll admit that there's nothing in the rules explicitly contradicting you, it just makes no sense imo.

[icefractal]

Yeah, that's an interesting reading, but not one I've ever seen used, much less the default. Obviously you do need a high enough skill to make the thing you're creating, but it simply says "succeed at an appropriate skill check" - not perform the entire crafting process. Also, as mentioned, this would make Fabricate do literally nothing, so ... no, I'm not buying it.

[Curmudgeon]

Your interpretation of the rules makes Fabricate do nothing craft doesn't already do and weakens Minor Creation so much it's almost not worth taking, so i'd say it's probably not the intended one.
I'll admit that there's nothing in the rules explicitly contradicting you, it just makes no sense imo.
Minor Creation makes the materials you need to work with free, as I pointed out. Fabricate lets you use the spell to shape the material rather than tools. If you're not making anything that requires a high degree of skill, the product is finished in an instant with no check; you completely bypass any Craft skill requirement for products with low- and medium-skill DCs (roughly DC 15 or lower).

There's nothing pointless about these spells.

[Akal Saris]

What other interesting things could you create? The time limitation is an irritation for me, which has me thinking of just switching the feat out for something else. If it could be useful in other ways I'd opt to keep it.



Theoretically I could take the Practiced Manifester feat. That would require me to take an extra feat just to make the first feat palatable. I'm only taking the first feat so I can create/acquire and use poisons more easily. Four feats simply to use black lotus extract seems a bit much.

Are there any better/cheaper ways to acquire poisons?

(1) On the minor creation issue: I believe somebody else linked "minor creation and you" which might have some interesting ideas on fun uses for minor creation. I personally wouldn't take Practiced Manifester just for minor creation though.

(2) For alternate ways to get poisons on the cheap if you drop the psionic feat (or to augment your options aside from the feat), my guide in the signature has some ideas if you haven't read it already. I would look at your party members and try to see if there are ways that they can help. Druids, wizards, psions, and artificers especially have lots of options that can support a poison user without impeding their own effectiveness.

(3) If you're having problems hitting DC 35 for Black Lotus (I'm not surprised!), then there are a wide variety of other plant-based poisons you can try until you can reliably hit the DC for black lotus. In addition, using some of the many lower-level poisons is probably less of an issue for game balance than a very low-level character regularly dealing ~9 con damage a hit, though your game table may vary of course.

I made this list a while back for the poisons handbook:
Minor Creation and Major Creation: Plant and mineral based poisons

Craft DC 15/None: Belladonna (Monster Manual). Ingested: DC 13, 1d6 Str damage/2d6 Str damage. No craft check necessary for just the raw plant, which is poisonous.
Craft DC 15/None: Yew (Online). Ingested: DC 13, 1d2 Con damage/2d6 Con damage. No craft check necessary for just the raw bark or leaves, which is poisonous.
Craft DC 15/None: Striped Toadstool (DMG). Ingested: DC 11, deals 1 Wis/2d6 Wis and 1d4 Int. Presumably no craft check necessary for just the raw toadstool.
Craft DC 15?: Stun Gas (Underdark). Inhaled: DC 12, Stun effect.
Craft DC 15/None: Volcanic Gas (Sandstorm). Inhaled: DC 13, Unconsciousness/1d6 Con. Major Creation should work with this.
Craft DC 15: Blue Whinnis (DMG). Injury: DC 14, deals 1 Con/Unconsciousness
Craft DC 15: Bloodroot (DMG). Injury: DC 12, deals 0/1d4 Con +1d3 Wis
Craft DC 15: Arsenic (DMG): DC 13 Ingested, 1 Con/1d8 Con. The "King of Poisons" is quite tame in D&D, and can be crafted with Major Creation.
Craft DC 15: Sleeping Vine (A&E 37): DC 13, slowed/1d4 Dex
Craft DC 15: Id Moss (DMG): DC 14 Ingested, 1d4 Int/2d6 Int
Craft DC 15: Good-Bye Kiss (C. Scoundrel) Contact: Exhaustion/Exhaustion, Fatigued on a successful save)
Craft DC 15: Drow Poison (DMG) Injury DC 13, Unconsciousness/Unconsciousness. *Noted as being distilled from fungi and roots in C. Scoundrel
Craft DC 17: Psychotropic Rot (DoTU 94): Ingested: DC 15, deals 1d4 Wis/3d8 Hp.
Craft DC 20: Vapid Leaf Extract (A&E 37): DC 16, Dazed/2d6 Int.
Craft DC 20?: Spotted Toadstool Venom (Player's Guide to Eberron). Injury: DC 16, 1d6 Str/1d6 Con.
Craft DC 20: Malyss Root paste (DMG). Injury DC 16, deals 1 Dex/2d4 Dex damage.
Craft DC 20: Sassone leaf residue (DMG): Contact DC 16, deals 2d12 damage/1d6 Con.
Craft DC 21: Cave Terror (Underdark). DC 20, Confusion effect.
Craft DC 25: Terinav Root (DMG). Contact DC 20, deals 1d6/2d6 Dex.
Craft DC 25?: Sinmaker's Surprise (Manual of the Planes). Injury DC 24, Ingested DC 18. Deals 1d6 Con/2d6 Con, and 1d6 Acid for 3 rounds.
Craft DC 28: Darklight Brew (DoTU 94): Injury DC 23, Deals an initial 2d6 Con and 1d6 Strength damage, and blindness as a secondary effect! Can be crafted with Major Creation.
Craft DC 35: Black Lotus Extract (DMG). DC 20, deals 3d6/3d6 Con.
Craft DC 35?: Greensickness (Dungeonscape, MMIII). DC 33, deals 2d6 Str + 1d4 Con/2d6 Str + 1d4 Con. *Confirmed that this is plant-based - it's from the Plague Brush in MMIII, an extraplanar house-sized tumbleweed of death. Words fail me. Craft DC given is an estimate by PlzBreakMyCampaign, my own inclination would be to make it DC 40 or 45.

(Oh, quick edit: I doubt Curmudgeon's reading of the Minor Creation spell taking several hours to cast instead of 1 minute is shared at many tables. I've never seen it ruled that way. Sometimes a strict RAW reading bows to common sense)

[sleepyphoenixx]

Minor Creation makes the materials you need to work with free, as I pointed out. Fabricate lets you use the spell to shape the material rather than tools. If you're not making anything that requires a high degree of skill, the product is finished in an instant with no check; you completely bypass any Craft skill requirement for products with low- and medium-skill DCs (roughly DC 15 or lower).

There's nothing pointless about these spells.

You're entitled to your opinion. The rules can be interpreted either way, since there isn't anything beyond that single line in the spell description.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Poison crafter and Wild Cohort. Get a big snake, boost it's Con and take Ability Focus for all it's feats (I don't recall exactly but I think it stacks). Two feats and a slightly weakened animal companion for real poisons that aren't dispell or antimagic vulnerable.

Plus you won't get people arguing that only equipment, creatures, or plants explicitly in the books exists and that divination spells aren't able to answer questions.

Again, this requires further feat investments in a build. Poison has a diminishing return with the more you put into it. I don't want to forgo Knowledge Devotion or Arcane Strike for my Duskblade for the chance of more or better poisons.


(1) On the minor creation issue: I believe somebody else linked "minor creation and you" which might have some interesting ideas on fun uses for minor creation. I personally wouldn't take Practiced Manifester just for minor creation though.

(2) For alternate ways to get poisons on the cheap if you drop the psionic feat (or to augment your options aside from the feat), my guide in the signature has some ideas if you haven't read it already. I would look at your party members and try to see if there are ways that they can help. Druids, wizards, psions, and artificers especially have lots of options that can support a poison user without impeding their own effectiveness.

(3) If you're having problems hitting DC 35 for Black Lotus (I'm not surprised!), then there are a wide variety of other plant-based poisons you can try until you can reliably hit the DC for black lotus. In addition, using some of the many lower-level poisons is probably less of an issue for game balance than a very low-level character regularly dealing ~9 con damage a hit, though your game table may vary of course.

I made this list a while back for the poisons handbook:
Minor Creation and Major Creation: Plant and mineral based poisons

Craft DC 15/None: Belladonna (Monster Manual). Ingested: DC 13, 1d6 Str damage/2d6 Str damage. No craft check necessary for just the raw plant, which is poisonous.
Craft DC 15/None: Yew (Online). Ingested: DC 13, 1d2 Con damage/2d6 Con damage. No craft check necessary for just the raw bark or leaves, which is poisonous.
Craft DC 15/None: Striped Toadstool (DMG). Ingested: DC 11, deals 1 Wis/2d6 Wis and 1d4 Int. Presumably no craft check necessary for just the raw toadstool.
Craft DC 15?: Stun Gas (Underdark). Inhaled: DC 12, Stun effect.
Craft DC 15/None: Volcanic Gas (Sandstorm). Inhaled: DC 13, Unconsciousness/1d6 Con. Major Creation should work with this.
Craft DC 15: Blue Whinnis (DMG). Injury: DC 14, deals 1 Con/Unconsciousness
Craft DC 15: Bloodroot (DMG). Injury: DC 12, deals 0/1d4 Con +1d3 Wis
Craft DC 15: Arsenic (DMG): DC 13 Ingested, 1 Con/1d8 Con. The "King of Poisons" is quite tame in D&D, and can be crafted with Major Creation.
Craft DC 15: Sleeping Vine (A&E 37): DC 13, slowed/1d4 Dex
Craft DC 15: Id Moss (DMG): DC 14 Ingested, 1d4 Int/2d6 Int
Craft DC 15: Good-Bye Kiss (C. Scoundrel) Contact: Exhaustion/Exhaustion, Fatigued on a successful save)
Craft DC 15: Drow Poison (DMG) Injury DC 13, Unconsciousness/Unconsciousness. *Noted as being distilled from fungi and roots in C. Scoundrel
Craft DC 17: Psychotropic Rot (DoTU 94): Ingested: DC 15, deals 1d4 Wis/3d8 Hp.
Craft DC 20: Vapid Leaf Extract (A&E 37): DC 16, Dazed/2d6 Int.
Craft DC 20?: Spotted Toadstool Venom (Player's Guide to Eberron). Injury: DC 16, 1d6 Str/1d6 Con.
Craft DC 20: Malyss Root paste (DMG). Injury DC 16, deals 1 Dex/2d4 Dex damage.
Craft DC 20: Sassone leaf residue (DMG): Contact DC 16, deals 2d12 damage/1d6 Con.
Craft DC 21: Cave Terror (Underdark). DC 20, Confusion effect.
Craft DC 25: Terinav Root (DMG). Contact DC 20, deals 1d6/2d6 Dex.
Craft DC 25?: Sinmaker's Surprise (Manual of the Planes). Injury DC 24, Ingested DC 18. Deals 1d6 Con/2d6 Con, and 1d6 Acid for 3 rounds.
Craft DC 28: Darklight Brew (DoTU 94): Injury DC 23, Deals an initial 2d6 Con and 1d6 Strength damage, and blindness as a secondary effect! Can be crafted with Major Creation.
Craft DC 35: Black Lotus Extract (DMG). DC 20, deals 3d6/3d6 Con.
Craft DC 35?: Greensickness (Dungeonscape, MMIII). DC 33, deals 2d6 Str + 1d4 Con/2d6 Str + 1d4 Con. *Confirmed that this is plant-based - it's from the Plague Brush in MMIII, an extraplanar house-sized tumbleweed of death. Words fail me. Craft DC given is an estimate by PlzBreakMyCampaign, my own inclination would be to make it DC 40 or 45.

(Oh, quick edit: I doubt Curmudgeon's reading of the Minor Creation spell taking several hours to cast instead of 1 minute is shared at many tables. I've never seen it ruled that way. Sometimes a strict RAW reading bows to common sense)

I did read your guide. I haven't purchased a Warbeast Wyvern yet, but I'm working on it. Your guide is the reason I took Hidden Talent (& subsequently did not take Poison Spell).

The table will be very helpful. I'm still stuck on ways to make the poison last. If I cast it at the beginning of a dungeon crawl, there is a good chance it's all gone before I ever get to use it. I might see what a party wizard is willing to help with, should the character ever see game time, but I'm not expecting much.

EDIT: I'm playing a character without access to Handle Animal. What are the approximate costs of training (paying to have someone train) a wyvern?

EDIT2: Wyverns can't be made into warbeast. I'm a moron. It costs 3,000gp to get one and have it trained, as per A&EG.

[Akal Saris]

Unfortunately I'm not too familiar with psionics, so I can't really recommend any items to extend the duration of the powers. Isn't there a psionic equivalent of pearls of power that you could get, perhaps?

[Telok]

Again, this requires further feat investments in a build. Poison has a diminishing return with the more you put into it. I don't want to forgo Knowledge Devotion or Arcane Strike for my Duskblade for the chance of more or better poisons.

Ah, I see now. You're already playing the character and have paid for the psi feats. My recommendation was more for a character not already in play. That character would get an ally and a source of poison that would increase in DC as the character leveled up without resorting to using the gray area in Minor Creation.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Unfortunately I'm not too familiar with psionics, so I can't really recommend any items to extend the duration of the powers. Isn't there a psionic equivalent of pearls of power that you could get, perhaps?

I'll need to look into it as well. I'm not very familiar with it either. Though, I believe there is an equivalent psionic pearl of power. Out of curiosity, would I be able to use psionic wands without use psionic device if the power was minor creation?


Ah, I see now. You're already playing the character and have paid for the psi feats. My recommendation was more for a character not already in play. That character would get an ally and a source of poison that would increase in DC as the character leveled up without resorting to using the gray area in Minor Creation.

The character isn't in play yet. I still need to look up wild cohort.The thing is that Hidden Talent gives me a wide variety of potential poison. Wild Cohort only gives me the one. But you are right, it would scale. I'll need to look into it.


Asking the forum, as well: which do you think is the better feat investment for poisons Wild Cohort or Hidden Talent (Minor Creation)?


EDIT:


Poison crafter and Wild Cohort. Get a big snake, boost it's Con and take Ability Focus for all it's feats (I don't recall exactly but I think it stacks). Two feats and a slightly weakened animal companion for real poisons that aren't dispell or antimagic vulnerable.

Plus you won't get people arguing that only equipment, creatures, or plants explicitly in the books exists and that divination spells aren't able to answer questions.

On a related note, I've never heard of the Poison Crafter feat. Can you list a source?

As for ability focus, you can take it multiple times, but only for different abilities. It doesn't stack with itself.


EDIT2:

I'm thinking of purchasing a wartrained wyvern Giant Banded Lizard, and craft whatever other poisons I need. It seems like less trouble...And maybe buy a dorje (psionic wand) of Minor Creation (assuming I can use it without Use Psionic Device, thanks to Hidden Talent).


EDIT3: I'm an idiot and wyverns can't be warbeasts.

EDIT4: Theoretically speaking, if one were to purchase a warbeast megapede, and had a habitat to house it in, how would one go about collecting the poison from the living megapede...theoretically speaking, of course.