[TO] How many full attacks can we make in one round?

[Heliomance]

Simple question - how many full attacks can we possibly cram into one round? Bonus points given for things you can do all day every day, rather than only having a few uses per day.

I figured a useful place to start would be to catalogue various methods of getting full attacks as different actions.

Full round action:
Full attack
Charge + pounce
Time Stands Still maneuver: Grants two full attacks as a single full attack action.

Standard action:
Standard action teleport + Shadow Pounce

Move action:
Jump check + Battle Jump + pounce
Move action teleport + Shadow Pounce

Swift action:
Sudden Leap maneuver + Battle Jump + pounce
Swift action teleport + Shadow Pounce

Immediate action:
Abrupt Jaunt + Shadow Pounce

Free action:

Methods of getting more actions:

[Taveena]

Flicker + Shadow Pounce also works as an Immediate action version. Is this just 3.5e, or are we throwing everything in?

[Rebel7284]

Really Telflamar Shadowlord translates this to how many actions you can get.

My goto build for that involves a dominant ideal ardent 10+ with telflamar shadowlord.

Pre-buffed with fission and Schism, you can Twin Power -> Dimention Swap for up to 4 full attacks per action. Linked Power gives you at least 50% more actions each subsequent turn.

[avr]

Ruby Knight Vindicator trades a turn attempt for a swift action. Combines well with swift action teleport/shadow pounce.

Alternately with a sufficient number of assistants with White Raven Tactics you can have as many full attacks as you like.

[Aetol]

Battle Jump, as written, involves dropping from a height on the opponent. Is it really possible to combine it with Sudden Leap ?

[Bonzai]

Best I could do was 4 with my Shadow Pouncer. Standard, move, swift, then imediate (Flicker).

[Aetol]

You can't have a swift action and an immediate action in the same round, they're concurrent.

Also, regarding Sudden Leap again : even assuming making a high jump over the opponent counts as dropping on it, you still need to jump 10 ft (for a medium creature). Without a running start. So the DC for that Jump check would be a ridiculous 80...

[Dread_Head]

Battle Jump, as written, involves dropping from a height on the opponent. Is it really possible to combine it with Sudden Leap ?

If you go with the interpretation that battle jump triggers a charge if you fall from more than 5ft above an opponent then any of the methods which involve teleport +shadow pounce can be doubled by adding pounce + battle jump. You teleport 10ft above your opponent, full attack (due to shadow pounce) with a reach weapon, drop 5ft triggering a charge which becomes a full attack due to pounce and full attack with armour spikes / unarmed strike / spiked gauntlets / spiked chain etc.

Swiftblade gets an extra standard action and combos reasonably well with shadow pouncing (similar prereqs). A build of Totemist 2 / Abrupt Jaunt Fighter Bonus feats Wizard 5 / Swiftblade 1 / TFSL 4 / Swiftblade +8 gets four full attacks per turn. If you can somehow squeeze in the above method this doubles to 8, I had a build which it just about worked on but I can't find it any more.

[ApologyFestival]

I think the maximum number of full attacks would be gained from standard action charges using the boots of the battle charger (MIC), with pounce, gaining extra standard actions through the factotum's (Du) cunning surge class feature. Then the number of full attacks made in a round is limited only by how many inspiration points the factotum has, which is limited only by their intelligence score and level.

This is entirely dependant on a favourable reading of cunning surge and the font of inspiration (Web) feat. In this reading cunning surge is not an action to activate (and so isn't spending a standard action to gain a standard action, derp), there is no inherent limit on cunning surge activations per round, and the font of inspiration feat adds inspiration points in a similar fashion to how the psionic talent feat adds power points. This is largely the community consensus on these forums, although some posters disagree. The factotum is, unfortunately, not a well-written class. And I say that as someone that loves it to bits.

This would look like:
Swift action: Activate boots of the battle charger.
Standard action: Charge and pounce for a full attack.
Cunning surge to gain a standard action.
Repeat steps 2-3 until the factotum has less than 3 inspiration points remaining.

I'm sure there are ways to improve it, but that's a basic chassis where the number of full attacks is effectively only limited by character level. The number of full attacks approaches infinity as character level approaches infinity.

[nyjastul69]

You can't have a swift action and an immediate action in the same round, they're concurrent.

Also, regarding Sudden Leap again : even assuming making a high jump over the opponent counts as dropping on it, you still need to jump 10 ft (for a medium creature). Without a running start. So the DC for that Jump check would be a ridiculous 80...

You can do both in the same round, just not on the same turn. I use my move, standard, and swift action on my turn. I end my turn. I now immediately use my immediate action. This uses my swift for the next turn of course, but I still got those four actions in a single round.

[Flickerdart]

Immediate-action teleport is scrub-tier. What you want is the Eternal Blade capstone, which lets you take an entire turn as an immediate action. And greater celerity if a full round action.

Swiftblade 9 lets you have an extra standard action every round.

Threefold Mask of the Chimera lets you take an extra standard action in exchange for your next turn.

You'll want to be shapechanged into a chronotyryn for two turns every initiative count, of course.

Then there's Belt of Battle.

We can have a psion with fusion combine a bunch of characters so you can get all of these.

So we have:
Full-round action: Take 2 full attacks (Time Stands Still).
Swiftblade standard action: Shadowpounce.
Swift action: Activate your Belt of Battle for a full-round action.
Full-round action: Take 2 full attacks (you can absorb multiple initiators to ready multiple Time Stands Stills).
Chronotyryn second turn: four full attacks as above. Five if you can use an unseen seer to take off your belt and put another one on.
End turn. Immediately use Eternal Blade's Island in Time to take another turn.
Full-round action: Take 2 full attacks (Time Stands Still).
Swiftblade standard action: Shadowpounce.
Swift action: was eaten by Island in Time.
Threefold Mask standard action: Shadowpounce.
End turn. Immediately cast greater celerity.
Full-round action: Take 2 full attacks (Time Stands Still).

Total: 15 full attacks.

[Uncle Pine]

Shadow pounce coupled with 20 well-worded contingent Benign Transposition spells (i.e. "Activate when I say lutefisk") can add 20 full attacks to any build if you have at least another ally adjacent to your foe.

EDIT: Replace the ally with an unseen servant if you don't have any friends.

[animewatcha]

Duskblade 13/ teflammor. Blow spell slots to dimension hop yourself during full attacks. Triggering another full attack until you run outta spell slots.

[Murmaider]

What is the highest Number of Turn attempts you can get?

Ruby Knight Vindicator with Shadow Blink could Shadow Pounce once for every 3 Turn or Rebuke Undead attempt he's able to expend.

[Flickerdart]

Duskblade 13/ teflammor. Blow spell slots to dimension hop yourself during full attacks. Triggering another full attack until you run outta spell slots.
Heh, not a bad plan - you'd need to hit yourself at least once a full attack, but I see nothing that prohibits you from continuing to channel a new dimension hop every time. So get a tiny braid blade to hit yourself with, and you're off to the races!


What is the highest Number of Turn attempts you can get?

Ruby Knight Vindicator with Shadow Blink could Shadow Pounce once for every 3 Turn or Rebuke Undead attempt he's able to expend.
Not in a TO thread - TO is RAW, and by RAW, it costs a standard action to use a Su ability with no specified action cost. So the RKV can trade standards for swifts, but that's it.

[Heliomance]

You can't have a swift action and an immediate action in the same round, they're concurrent.

Also, regarding Sudden Leap again : even assuming making a high jump over the opponent counts as dropping on it, you still need to jump 10 ft (for a medium creature). Without a running start. So the DC for that Jump check would be a ridiculous 80...

Leaping Dragon Stance makes you count as having a running start and gives you a +10 to the check. That means you're only trying to hit a very achievable DC30.

[Troacctid]

Don't forget a conjoined twin for an extra standard action each round.

[sleepyphoenixx]

If you go with the interpretation that battle jump triggers a charge if you fall from more than 5ft above an opponent then any of the methods which involve teleport +shadow pounce can be doubled by adding pounce + battle jump. You teleport 10ft above your opponent, full attack (due to shadow pounce) with a reach weapon, drop 5ft triggering a charge which becomes a full attack due to pounce and full attack with armour spikes / unarmed strike / spiked gauntlets / spiked chain etc.


You can't teleport into the air any more than you can teleport inside an opponent or do the same with summons. It's a basic rule of the conjuration school.

[Troacctid]

You can't teleport into the air any more than you can teleport inside an opponent or do the same with summons. It's a basic rule of the conjuration school.

That only applies to creatures or objects you're bringing into being or transporting to your location, such as with a spell of the creation, summoning, or calling subschool. Most teleportation spells are transporting you to a different location, not to your own location, so they're not subject to the restriction.

[Jack_Simth]

Arbitrarily large, based on GP/XP resources.

Consider a Sorcerer-20. A simulacrum of this Sorcerer is a Sorcerer-10.

Make him a dragonwrought kobold, with the lorekeeper and Greater Draconic Rite of Passage. This Sorcerer casts as a Sorcerer-23. A simulacrum, as a Sorcerer-13 (because three of the caster levels are not HD dependant, and that's the casting the main character had at 10th).

Make an arbitrarily large number of simulacrums of this sorcerer.

Use Polymorph Any Object to turn them into Throwing Scarabs (Magic of Eberron).

They gain the Share Spells ability from the type.

They cast Silent Celerity, and share it with their host, who then gets a free standard action. One per round per scarab. Two standard actions equals a full round action via the start/complete full round action option.

If they're attached to, say, a Warblade cohort, well....

[Aegis013]

Surprised nobody has said this yet for TO.

Correct answer is infinity full attacks in a round, and at relatively low level to boot.

War blade 1/Swordsage 1/Crusader 1/x ?/maneuver granting PrCs ?

Basic fast Idiot Crusader interpretation, grab Extra Granted maneuver and as soon as your crusader IL is 5, grab White Raven Tactics as an idiot crusader maneuver.

Full attack, WRT on self, repeat forever. You act on all initiative counts equal to or below what you roll down to negative infinity.

[Heliomance]

Arbitrarily large, based on GP/XP resources.

Consider a Sorcerer-20. A simulacrum of this Sorcerer is a Sorcerer-10.

Make him a dragonwrought kobold, with the lorekeeper and Greater Draconic Rite of Passage. This Sorcerer casts as a Sorcerer-23. A simulacrum, as a Sorcerer-13 (because three of the caster levels are not HD dependant, and that's the casting the main character had at 10th).

Make an arbitrarily large number of simulacrums of this sorcerer.

Use Polymorph Any Object to turn them into Throwing Scarabs (Magic of Eberron).

They gain the Share Spells ability from the type.

They cast Silent Celerity, and share it with their host, who then gets a free standard action. One per round per scarab. Two standard actions equals a full round action via the start/complete full round action option.

If they're attached to, say, a Warblade cohort, well....

Okay, for the sake of still having an interesting question, let's disallow GP/XP expenditure then :P

Yes, that means no Belt of Battle.

Race should probably be Dvati, for instant doubling of whatever else we manage.

[paranoidbox]

Surprised nobody has said this yet for TO.

Correct answer is infinity full attacks in a round, and at relatively low level to boot.


"Infinity everything" has always been the correct answer in any TO thread I've ever seen.

[Darrin]

Not in a TO thread - TO is RAW, and by RAW, it costs a standard action to use a Su ability with no specified action cost. So the RKV can trade standards for swifts, but that's it.

Ok... if that's RAW, then Idiot Crusader + WRT is RAW.

Race: Half-Elf
Warblade 8/Crusader 2/Eternal Blade 10
Feats: Weapon Focus (1st), TWF (3rd), Combat Reflexes (5th), Improved TWF (6th), Extra Granted Maneuver (9th), Double Hit (12th), Greater TWF (15th), Skill Focus: Basketweaving (18th).

At ECL 16, we have 5 Crusader maneuvers known, 5 granted maneuvers, and an infinite number of turns during the round (assuming the initiative count can keep going down to negative infinity).

Hmm... I thought there might be a way to add infinite damage on top of that, but I'm having trouble getting the Luck domain in there. Arcane Disciple + Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment might work, but looks somewhat dubious.

Well, this should work... doesn't get Island In Time or Time Stands Still, but infinite turns with infinite damage seems like a pretty decent consolation prize.

Warblade 6/Soldier of Light 1/Warpriest 1/Crusader 2/Eternal Blade 6/Contemplative or Divine Oracle 1.
Feats: Weapon Focus (1st), Knowledge Devotion: Religion (3rd), Combat Reflexes (5th), Combat Casting (6th), Extra Granted Maneuver (9th), Imbued Healing (12th), Skill Focus: whatever (15th)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

1. Get Shadow Pounce.
2. Use Animate Dead, Create Undead, etc. to get multiple undead minions.
3. Spellstitch each of those to enable them to use Benign Transposition 3/day, and Baleful Transposition 3/day.
4. They each take Quicken Spell-Like Ability for Benign Transposition.
5. Each one moves adjacent to an opponent, uses Quickened Benign Transposition on you, moves adjacent to an opponent, and uses Baleful Transposition on you.

You're now making two full attacks per minion, up to 3/day per minion.

[kulosle]

1. Get Shadow Pounce.
2. Use Animate Dead, Create Undead, etc. to get multiple undead minions.
3. Spellstitch each of those to enable them to use Benign Transposition 3/day, and Baleful Transposition 3/day.
4. They each take Quicken Spell-Like Ability for Benign Transposition.
5. Each one moves adjacent to an opponent, uses Quickened Benign Transposition on you, moves adjacent to an opponent, and uses Baleful Transposition on you.

You're now making two full attacks per minion, up to 3/day per minion.

umm that's limited on space around creature. cause they all have to be close enough to move in cast and move out.


"Infinity everything" has always been the correct answer in any TO thread I've ever seen.

This is correct. Pun Pun has infinite feats and all class features. That means he has shadow pounce and cunning surge and infinite font of inspiration feats. He has an infinite amount of money and can very easily have an item that can teleport him as a standard action any number of times per day. that means infinite amount of standard actions and infinite amounts of teleporting, and infinite amount of full attacks in one turn.

[Heliomance]

umm that's limited on space around creature. cause they all have to be close enough to move in cast and move out.



This is correct. Pun Pun has infinite feats and all class features. That means he has shadow pounce and cunning surge and infinite font of inspiration feats. He has an infinite amount of money and can very easily have an item that can teleport him as a standard action any number of times per day. that means infinite amount of standard actions and infinite amounts of teleporting, and infinite amount of full attacks in one turn.

Yeah, but infinities and nigh-infinities are boringly easy to get. That's no fun.

[TheifofZ]

Noone has mentioned the D'vati race?
You get a second body for +1 LA. Doubles your actions in a round.

[Jack_Simth]

Noone has mentioned the D'vati race?
You get a second body for +1 LA. Doubles your actions in a round.Heliomance, not Noone.

[WhamBamSam]

The Blink Dog's Dimension Door is a 1/round free action teleport, and explicitly doesn't end your turn the way a normal Dimension Door does. It takes some effort to get a hold of though, especially as the easiest way (Exalted Wild Shape) isn't compatible with the Shadow Pounce PrCs' alignment prereqs.

Elocater's Dimension Spring Attack could result in two Shadow Pounces for the price of one standard action. You might even be able to get it down to a move action if you use Bloodlines/Legacy Trickster cheese to increase your Elocater level to 13 (assuming (Su) abilities that emulate powers are treated as fully augmented like PLAs are). It's only usable 1/day though.


There are also actually a few ways to make a full attack with less than a full-round action that I know of. Specifically, there are ways to charge with less than a full-round action, which, combined with Pounce, should give you a full attack.

The Dismount Attack skill trick lets you "use a standard action to attack an adjacent opponent as if you had charged that opponent" if you successfully fast dismount from a mount that's moved at least 10 ft during the round (whether or not you were on it at the time, by RAW, so you can just leapfrog a suitable creature with two free actions to set up the skill trick), and since you're no longer mounted, you're not bound by the single attack limitation of mounted combat. It's only 1/encounter, or 2/encounter if you're an Uncanny Trickster, though.

The Mantis Leap feat lets you charge by making a normal jump check (part of a move action) to reach an opponent. It requires 7 levels of Monk though, which among other things means you need to get Pounce from somewhere besides Barbarian (Sphinx Claws, probably) or make an alignment shift.

Great Rift Skyguard's Axes from the Sky ability is a standard action which counts as a charge and hence would seem to allow for pouncing.