So Avatar: The Last Airbender is some group's RPG campaign, right?

[Amaril]

I'm watching Avatar: The Last Airbender for the first time (yeah, I don't know what took me so long), and just to double-check, I'm not the only one who can't stop seeing it as some group's RPG campaign, am I?

The game starts with Aang, Katara, and Sokka as the PCs. Aang's player is the GM's significant other who's been reluctantly coerced into joining the game despite never having roleplayed before--the GM rolled up the super-special chosen one character for them partly so they'd have an easier time and could learn safely, and partly because of favoritism. Fortunately, the player turns out to be pretty great, and the GM is generally really good apart from this one mistake, so the character ends up working out okay and being generally fine with the group. Katara and Sokka's players have been rolling with the GM for ages; Sokka's player in particular has a long and storied roleplaying career, and is fantastic at the game, but has the world's unluckiest dice.

Zuko starts off as an NPC villain, but sometime in the middle of season 2, another friend of the GM's comes along and wants to play, and when the GM suggests they take over an NPC because it'd be awkward to introduce a new PC at that point, they pick Zuko. The plan is for him to join Team Avatar, but the player would prefer to keep doing their own thing, so the GM is stuck running them through a solo game parallel to the main one, with Iroh as a DMPC along for the ride to prevent them from getting their ass killed.

Toph's player also joins later. They've always played the same barbarian character in every game they've been in, but this time, they feel like mixing things up--however, their old habits die hard, and Toph ends up basically being their old character in the body of an adorable little twelve-year-old blind girl.

Azula is brought in to replace Zuko as the team's rival once Zuko became a PC (before it was realized that he'd be going off and doing his own thing). Her build was outsourced to another friend of the GM who, unbeknownst to everyone, has godlike system mastery, and minmaxed her to heaven and back to make her far outclass the PCs despite being about the same level as Zuko.

None of this means I don't love the show, of course--it actually makes it better :smallbiggrin:

[Dusk Eclipse]

That... that is actually a nice way to see the series, as you said it does makes a lot of sense, though I'd say that Sokka is the one with the system mastery, but is playing an obviously underpowered option to avoid hogging the spotlight.

[Maethirion]

There's actually an (abandoned) comic on this point

http://www.theduckwebcomics.com/Benders_and_Brawlers/5116380/

I quite enjoyed it.

[Legato Endless]

I'm watching Avatar: The Last Airbender for the first time (yeah, I don't know what took me so long), and just to double-check, I'm not the only one who can't stop seeing it as some group's RPG campaign, am I?

No. Saph in his Let's Watch of Avatar also made the occasionally RPG joke. Be warned though, for this way lies madness. It's such a resilient metaphor you can apply it to all too many things.

[Amaril]

That... that is actually a nice way to see the series, as you said it does makes a lot of sense, though I'd say that Sokka is the one with the system mastery, but is playing an obviously underpowered option to avoid hogging the spotlight.

I mostly see Sokka's decision to play a non-bender as evidence of his commitment to roleplaying above optimization (yes, Stormwind Fallacy, I know, but it's accurate sometimes). Also, I don't think he's as underpowered as it seems--like I said, it seems to me like he only fails so often because his dice hate him. When he has to do things that don't require rolls, like coming up with battle plans, he kicks some serious ass.


There's actually an (abandoned) comic on this point

http://www.theduckwebcomics.com/Benders_and_Brawlers/5116380/

I quite enjoyed it.

Oh, yeah, of course someone did one of those :smalltongue: I still think Avatar is especially suited to it, though.


No. Saph in his Let's Watch of Avatar also made the occasionally RPG joke. Be warned though, for this way lies madness. It's such a resilient metaphor you can apply it to all too many things.

Oh, trust me, I apply it to just about everything I consume. I just can't help but notice how easy Avatar seems to make it. It's usually a bit more of a stretch.

[Illven]

I mostly see Sokka's decision to play a non-bender as evidence of his commitment to roleplaying above optimization (yes, Stormwind Fallacy, I know, but it's accurate sometimes). Also, I don't think he's as underpowered as it seems--like I said, it seems to me like he only fails so often because his dice hate him. When he has to do things that don't require rolls, like coming up with battle plans, he kicks some serious ass.

I don't think that someone being good at role-playing, but not optimization, or someone being good at optimization, but not role-playing, makes Stormwind fallacy accurate.

They are just two separate skill sets that different people can have different levels of ability in.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I mostly see Sokka's decision to play a non-bender as evidence of his commitment to roleplaying above optimization (yes, Stormwind Fallacy, I know, but it's accurate sometimes). Also, I don't think he's as underpowered as it seems--like I said, it seems to me like he only fails so often because his dice hate him. When he has to do things that don't require rolls, like coming up with battle plans, he kicks some serious ass.


Stormwind, that is a dangerous word man :smalltongue: but yeah I agree. And what I meant is that Sokka was underpowered compared to his peers (like bringing a fighter when the rest of the party is a cleric a wizard and a druid...actually that comparison is eerily acurate), but despite starting on a lower power level he manages to do just as much as everyone else through sheer wit and tenacity. He is the kind of player DM's either love or hate, as they will always come up with something outside of the box that no one saw coming, now imagine if he had access to bending. While he probably wouldn't be a prodigy as pretty much the rest of the cast, I think he would be one of the most dangerous benders in the world.

[Ramza00]

You are assuming this is a D&D game when I assume it is literally philosophy taken from the Greeks, Indian (many philosophies including buddhism, zen, hinduism, the tantric religion), China etc.

For example when Bumi is referring to the word Jing is is actually referring to the philosophy of yin and yang but a state of an object is constantly in flux so there are more states of yin and yang than yin and yang yet it is still yin and yang. This is why Bumi states there are many forms of jing, but lets talk about attacking, retreating, and nothing (neutral jing). Earthbending philosophy is neutral or not moving, when earth moves it is destroyed so if the elements move it earth dies, when earth is stationary the other elements move around it, thus neutral jing. To be a great earthbender you need to understand the terrain and where it is solid and where it is not and then anchor you to the solid point and let your enemy wear himself out while you look for the opportunity to attack (wonderful fight in the legend of korra that demonstrates neutral jing and a master earthbender)

Jing is actually a form of chinese medicine that is based off this philosphy.

Now the ying yang symbol is not limited to 1 religion or philosophy of China but actually several so there are a couple dozen different variations with subtle meanings and I am not going to attempt to list them all for I am not familiar with all of them and just some of them.

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The Chakras from season 2 is literally from the tantric religion of India

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Many of the nature of the elements that Uncle Iroh and later on other people in the legend of aang and legend of korra talk about how Fire represents X is straight from Greek Philosophy and people like Aristotle, Plato, and two dozen other greek philosophers that most people would not recognize the name.

Even the design Uncle Iroh drew is from philosophy

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/5/56/Four_nations'_symbols_drawing.png/revision/latest?cb=20140403224711


Notice the circle and the two lines.

That is the symbol some philosophies used to demonstrate as terra or all that is on the earthly (not spirit, non heaven / hell realm). For example you often see it used in conjunction with Aristotle explaining the elements of fire, earth, air, and water. (Do note other philosophies such as india and china may use the same elements but use different symbols like a black egg or crescent moons for elements)

https://thefourelementsearthwaterairfire.files.wordpress.c om/2013/04/kubesymbolsandcolorsofthefourelements.jpeg?w=625

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See Chi / Qi / Prana and some other words used to describe the elements in the Avatar universe used by several eastern thoughts but the word Chi / Qi originally appeared in China.

Element bending in the avatar universe is not really element bending but instead Chi bending, you either insert your own Chi into the element and then move the chi around, or literally the Chi of one person is inserted not into an element but a second person such as the healing techniques of water bending (do note other elements also have similar techniques not to healing but instead messing with your own internal Chi via an elemental medium)

The problem with bending Chi is besides the avatar no one else has found how to bend Chi that is locked in an element not of their nationality, even if you have a mixed breed. Each person gets either 0 element bending ability or they can only bend the chi in 1 element. We do not understand why in totality this is the case but many people have theories on it.

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In some ways you can describe Aang as not bending, earth, air, water, and fire but instead bending the element of AEther. AEther according to aristotle is the element that is both of the earth Terra, and the element located in the spirit realm /heaven/hell but also in people themselves. We may see 4 elements with our senses but that is a problem of our senses and we having problems understanding complicated things and thus our brains simplify the complicated even if the true form of things is more complicated.

The 4 elements are in reality just manifestations of the element AEther that our brains try to simplify. We see the form of the element as it is right this very moment but not what it could be.

Oh remember the circle with a cross dividing into 4 parts representing Terra and the 4 elements. There is also another design. The element of AEther has many symbols but one of the most common symbols is the circle with an two crosses in it (one at normal angle, one at 45 degrees forming 8 slices) representing the unification of the material world of Terra and the unseen world Spirit from which Aether belongs to both. (Remember the Avatar is the bridge between the two worlds and can live in both the material world or leave his body and be a spirit voluntarily and he can use all 4 elements in the material world.)

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The 7 Tantric Chakras that the Avatar universe uses goes by many names and there is much symbolism in the various names and interperations. The avatar universe uses this naming system but there is no correct true perfect naming system but instead many correct ones.

Earth/Water/Fire/Air

Sound which is an element you can not see and you can't not know exist once it is gone. Sound is the heavenly sense for once it leaves a location on earth only the things that are not of the earthly realm can be sure it occured (did a tree fall in a forest and no one was around truely make a sound.) Sound is usually connected to the concept of Aether, Void, or Spirit for it does exist but no one can sense it except when Sound interacts with molecules cause a vibration of two elements that touches you, but then is gone in an instant. Sound is a force and not something permanent, it is energy.

The other two Chakras are not chakras you can't sense with your senses but instead see with your mind. The 6th Chakra can be felt inside the world but it is felt most when you are asleep and you are dreaming. When you are asleep your two eyes close but your third eye which is connected to your memories and the collective force of the universe goes through your thoughts and the thoughts of others as a dream which you can't not control but instead must just watch. This Chakra allows you to see the truth of things, and dispels illusions.

The last chakra connects you to the entire universe, it is almost impossible to every find even for masters. It is best found by doing nothing, staying, still, and just stop looking for it. By stop looking for the unifying force of the universe that connects all you can find it by being still and just feeling not with your senses but with your soul all the change that is occurring in the universe and how change and permanence is an illusion made by man. There is no past, present, or future, there is merely now in this form, and then the changing of one form to another.

By stopping trying to find stuff inside the worlds that you know, but instead by doing nothing and embracing nothing inside yourself you can become one with the cosmic energy of the universe and then via becoming one with the cosmic energy of the universe you can now open your eyes and truly see how things are and how they can be, and now you can reshape the universe to a more balanced state, not order, not chaos, not good as in perfection, not evil but instead good as in closer to the ideal state where the world is not having people who are hurting for no one truly sees the cause of all the problems.

You can never hold the entire world in your hands, just like you can't hold the sea in your hands without it slipping through your fingers.

A whole lot of this does not make sense until you see all of the legend of korra and the legend of aang so the people who seen all of it will catch lots of inner meaning that will not make sense right now (I did no spoilers).











So you tell me that the creators of Avatar the Last Airbender (legend of Aang and legend of Korra) are trying to tell a fantasy story and it is similar to a game of D&D.

I say Bryke (fan nickname for the two creators of Avatar, Bryan Konietzko and Michael Dante DiMartino)

I say Bryke are telling a fairy tell to children that if the children were to search for a deeper meaning they will be able to find it, yet Adults or Teenagers who are told the actual philosophy in all of its details would not be able to comprehend for it is just too much words for our brains to understand without a lifetime of experience and a lifetime of pondering and processing. Only when we are as old as Iroh maybe we can be as wise as Iroh, and maybe only then can we love our neighbors like Zuko loves his nephew as a true son.

[Ramza00]

Oh lets be honest.

The kids are spellcasters/psionics.

But Sokka is SPECIAL decided he did not want any stinking spells or powers but instead wanted to play a Factotum (D&D 3.5 class) with his bursts of Inspiration.





Now for Azula's Angels, we have a Swordsage with Ty Lee and either a bloodstorm blade or a master thrower with Mai including some of the feats that allow you to do tricks like disarm or pin.

I definitely see Azula not as a spellcaster but instead as a psionic who knows how to play the game as a damage dealer but also a person who can do inventive use of powers. She also took schism via expanded knowledge and knows how to use schism in a near broken way via using synchronicity (so she can attack and use her schism mind to ready an action to disrupt your attack, this ready action costs 1 pp for a specific spell or 3 for complete flexibility). Azula also keeps a wand of some form of divination spell such as sure strike, true strike, etc so she can use her swift actions to boost her ability to do ranged touch attacks with spells that target a single person. You never see the wand for it is in a wand chamber located in her gloves.

Now Magic Missile and any non elemental damage spells do not exist, else everyone would be able to tag that damn last airbender :smallwink:

[LoP]

Regarding Jing:

Its interesting, because in Chinese martial arts, especially ones that are linked to traditional Chinese medicine, there is often confusion around the terms jing 精 (essence) and jin 勁 (power or strength).

In martial arts like taijiquan, xingyiquan, baguazhang, etc, they refer to specific ways to use the body to generate vectors of force without committing weight or momentum as jin: peng jin, lu jin, ji jin, an jin, cai jin, lie jin, zhao jin, kao jin, etc. Other martial arts have their own jins; you could probably easily get to 85 jins in the real world without breaking a sweat.

This seems to be really similar to how the Avatar universe talks about "jings," so I wonder if they conflated the terms accidentally (as is often the case in both traditional Chinese medicine and Chinese neijia martial arts), or if they did it on purpose ALSO to reference that same confusion. Honestly it could be either.

Reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jing_(Chinese_medicine)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fa_jin

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Oh lets be honest.

The kids are spellcasters/psionics.

But Sokka is SPECIAL decided he did not want any stinking spells or powers but instead wanted to play a Factotum (D&D 3.5 class) with his bursts of Inspiration.
Beautiful. :smallbiggrin:

[Kato]

Oh, trust me, I apply it to just about everything I consume. I just can't help but notice how easy Avatar seems to make it. It's usually a bit more of a stretch.

Eh, kind off, but I'll disagree about Zuko. His development doesn't make much sense this way, maybe more if he was a villain PC from the start. Having a player wanting to join and then making it so hard for him to actually get along with the team would... well, if I was the DM after the Ba Sing Se debacle I would have kicked him out, telling him to make up his mind :smalltongue:

[Solamnicknight]

I had the exact same idea when I saw the series. Except my idea played out like this. The reason for benders is that The DM made a homebrew campaign and reflavored the classes to be elemental themed. Katara is a cleric, Aang is a monk/sorcerer, Toph is a psion/rogue Sokka didn't want to play a caster in an all caster party and played a fighter. This annoyed the DM which is why combined with the player's horrible dice rolls bad things happen to him. and Zuko is a player who wanted evil alignment wizard/rogue character, but the DM wanted an all good party and railroaded Zuko into becoming a good guy by creating Uncle Iroh making his life absolute crap, and making his sister and father nasty and abusive. It really makes sense when you look at all the hybrid monsters and the tech that seems straight out of an Eberron sourcebook. Then Korra happened when the DM got even more Eberron material.