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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Wesen (Gedächtnis essers) from TV show Grimm (PEACH)



Debihuman
2015-10-29, 06:31 PM
Wesen, Gedächtnis Esser
Medium Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger), Monk 1
Hit Dice: 1d8+ 1 (5 hp)
Initiative:+2
Speed: 30 ft.
Armor Class: 11 (+1 Dex), touch 11, flat-footed 10
Initiative: +2
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+4
Attack: Unarmed strike +1 melee (1d6-1) [+1 melee (1d6) when woged]
Full Attack: Unarmed strike +1 melee (1d6-1) [+1 melee (1d6) when woged] or flurry of blows -3/-3 melee (1d6-1) [-2/- 2 melee (1d6) when woged]
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Attach (in woge form only), improved grab, extract memories (in woge form only)
Special Qualities: AC Bonus, Alternate Form, Display of Intimidation, Wesen Traits
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +2
Abilities: Str 8 (10 in woge form), Dex 12, Con 13, Int 14 Wis 10, Cha 15 (17 in woge form)
Skills: Balance+5, Climb+3, Escape Artist+5, Hide+5, Intimidate+6 (+7 in woge), Move Silently +5
Feats: Improved GrappleB monk, Weapon Finesse
Environment: Urban
Organization: Any
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually Lawful Evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +1

“Gedächtnis essers possess an extremely severe woge. They lose all their hair, their skin turns a fleshy pink with a dark maw, and they grow multiple tentacles. Of these tentacles, they have four main ones, which are longer than the rest, and each tentacle is covered in multiple suction cups. They use the four tentacles to burrow into their victims’ heads to steal their memories, exactly how it works is unknown, but it is theorized to have something to do with the electrical charges of the brain. The victim is left with severe swelling around the hippocampus and other parts of the brain that deal with memory. If the victims survive the attack, they are left with amnesia and in a state similar to advanced dementia. The act of stealing memories leaves the wesen Fatigued. However, the wesen can then use these stolen memories to take over the identity of their victims. Many act as spies. Furthermore, it seems the memories extracted from a grimm will leave them in a traumatic state given the violence they often inflict upon wesen. Consequentially, they are quite fearful of Grimms.” — http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Ged%C3%A4chtnis_Esser

Combat
Gedächtnis essers prefer to attack lone targets whom they have painstakingly stalked to better learn their habits.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Monks are proficient with club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling. Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields. When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.

AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

Alternate Form (Su): Wesen look perfectly human in Human form. A true seeing spell notices this is its true form. Wesen have the ability to change from Human form into a human-animal hybrid as a standard action called “woge.” Each animal type grants different extraordinary special attack(s) and other abilities noted in the stat block. Woged wesen can recognize a Grimm by looking directly into the Grimm’s eyes. Humanoids (other than other wesen, Grimms, and creatures unaffected by mind-affecting effects such as Undead) take a -12 penalty to Spot checks to notice the wesen is in woged form unless the wesen wants to be noticed.

Gedächtnis essers can “woge” into the monstrous form of a human with a red octopus-like head. They lose all their hair, their skin turns a fleshy pink with a dark maw, and they grow multiple tentacles. Of these tentacles, they have four main ones, which are longer than the rest, and each tentacle is covered in multiple suction cups. They gain the attach ability. While woged, a gedächtnis esser gains +2 Strength and +2 to Charisma (noted in parentheses in above stat block). A partially woged gedächtnis esser’s eyes glow red.

Attach (Ex): If a gedächtnis esser in woge form succeeds with a grapple, it uses its four powerful tentacles to bore into the opponent’s head, causing 1d4 points of damage plus its Strength modifier and causing same damage each round it remains attached. An attached gedächtnis esser loses its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class. An attached gedächtnis esser can be struck with a weapon or grappled itself. To remove an attached gedächtnis esser through grappling, the opponent must achieve a pin against the creature.

Bonus Feat: At 1st level, a monk may select either Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. At 2nd level, she may select either Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat. At 6th level, she may select either Improved Disarm or Improved Trip as a bonus feat. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

Display of Intimidation (Su): If partial woge form is used to intimidate an opponent, the gedächtnis esser gains a +4 circumstance bonus to its Intimidation check and its eyes glow red. A partially woged wessen cannot recognize a Grimm even when looking directly into a Grimm’s eyes.

Extract Memories (Ex): Once attached to a victim, a gedächtnis esser can extract memories from its victim as a full-round action, causing the victim to have its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma reduced to 1. A successful Reflex save (DC 13) negates. A gedächtnis esser may try again with the save DC increasing by +1 for each successive retry. Spellcasters and psionic creatures take a -4 penalty to their saves. The penalty does not stack, so a psionic spellcaster still takes only the 4 penalty. Victims of this attack are left in a state similar to advanced dementia and remain in this state until a miracle or wish spell is used to cancel the effect. While they never regain lost memories, they can make new ones. The act of stealing memories leaves the wesen Fatigued. Spells and psionic memories from the most recent 24 hours can be used by gedächtnis essers that have the respective spellcasting and/or psionic capability. The save DC is Charisma-based.

A gedächtnis esser that attempts to extract memories from a Grimm automatically fails and the wesen gains the Panicked condition unless he or she succeeds at Will save (DC is equal to 10 + ½ the Grimm’s HD and the Grimm’s charisma modifier).

Flurry of Blows (Ex): When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. The resulting modified base attack bonuses are shown in the Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus column on Table: The Monk. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make before her next action. When a monk reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to -1, and at 9th level, it disappears. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.

When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus × 1½ or ×½) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The monk can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows.

In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability. Even though the quarterstaff requires two hands to use, a monk may still intersperse unarmed strikes with quarterstaff strikes, assuming that she has enough attacks in her flurry of blows routine to do so.

Improved Grab (Ex): If a gedächtnis esser hits with an unarmed strike, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple with opponents of the same or smaller size as a free action without action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can attach if in woge form.

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.

Usually a monk’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and as a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Skills: A gedächtnis esser has a +4 racial bonus to Intimidate.

Wesen Racial Traits

Wesen are Humanoids with the Human and Shapechanger subtypes.
Unlike other Humans, Wesen do not gain 1 extra feat at 1st level.
Unlike other Humans, Wesen do not gain 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
Wesen in Human form are Medium sized; woge form may vary.
Wesen have a speed of 30 feet in their Human form; woge form may vary.
Alternate Form (Su): Wesen look perfectly human in Human form. A true seeing spell notices this is its true form. Wesen have the ability to change from Human form into a human-animal hybrid as a standard action called “woge.” Each animal type grants different extraordinary special attack(s) and other abilities noted in the stat block. Everyone (other than other wesen, Grimms, creatures unaffected by mind-affecting effects such as Undead and those with true seeing ability) automatically fails any Spot check to notice the wesen is in woged form unless the wesen wants to be noticed. A fully woged wesen can only recognize a Grimm if he or she can look directly into a Grimm’s eyes.
Display of Intimidation (Su): Wesen can use a partial “woge” to intimidate others, gaining a Circumstance bonus to their Intimidate checks that ranges from +2 to +4. Everyone (other than other wesen, Grimms, creatures unaffected by mind-affecting effects such as Undead, and creatures with true seeing ability) automatically fails any Spot checks to notice the change unless the wesen wants to be noticed. A partially woged wesen cannot recognize a Grimm.
Extract Memories (Ex): Once attached to a victim, a gedächtnis esser can extract memories from its victim as a full-round action, causing the victim to have its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma reduced to 1. A successful Reflex save (DC 13) negates. A gedächtnis esser may try again with the save DC increasing by +1 for each successive retry. Spellcasters and psionic creatures take a -4 penalty to their saves. The penalty does not stack, so a psionic spellcaster still takes only the 4 penalty. Victims of this attack are left in a state similar to advanced dementia and remain in this state until a miracle or wish spell is used to cancel the effect. While they never regain lost memories, they can make new ones. The act of stealing memories leaves the wesen Fatigued. Spells and psionic memories from the most recent 24 hours can be used by gedächtnis essers that have the respective spellcasting and/or psionic capability. The save DC is Charisma-based.
A gedächtnis esser that attempts to extract memories from a Grimm automatically fails and the wesen gains the Panicked condition unless he or she succeeds at Will save (DC is equal to 10 + ½ the Grimm’s HD and the Grimm’s charisma modifier).
Intimidate is always a class skill for wesen.
Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). See the Speak Language skill.
Favored Class: Depends on type of wesen. Wesen replace their monster level for class level when they take a class.
Level Adjustment: +1


A Grimm is a Humanoid usually human, who has the innate ability to notice a wesen whenever one woges or partially woges without penalty. The ability is inherited in Grimm families. The following racial feat can only be taken at first level.

Grimm Sight [Racial]
Prerequisite: Must be a Humanoid
Benefit: You automatically succeed at Spot checks to notice a wesen in woge form. You also gain a +4 bonus to Spot checks to notice a lycanthrope in animal form.
Normal: You automatically fail a Spot check to notice a wesen in woged or partially woged form.
Special: The feat can only be taken at first level. If you are a Ranger with Lycanthrope as your favored enemy, you gain an additional +2 bonus to Spot checks to notice a wesen in partially woged form and to notice a lycanthrope in animal form.

Overpowered ? Underpowered? Does it properly reflect the creature, regardless of class?

Debby

Eldan
2015-10-29, 06:41 PM
Gedächtnisesser, one word, no s for plura.

Eldan
2015-10-29, 06:53 PM
Seems a bit underwhelming for CR2 at first sight. Monk might also not be the best class here, I mean, their attacks will pretty much always miss, even without flurry. Though since weapon finesse applies to unarmed attacks, it should be +1, I think?

THe problem is this. This creature really can't do anything unless it successfully grapples and sucks out the brain. That is, of course, an autowin against a single opponent. But with no strenght and no base attack, it is really quite terrible at grappling. It has a +4. At level 2, when it faces an average party, even many wizards will have +1, and so a good chance to resist. And it needs to hit first to grapple, which it is aso quite bad at. A fighter probably has a +6 to grapple, and an AC of 18+.

On the other hand, as a player race, well...
It's stats are -2 STR (Or +0, when shifted), +2 dex, +2 con, +4 int, +4/+6 cha. It's pretty much all-around good, except as a melee fighter. As a wizard or especially sorcerer, it will blow pretty much anything of its level out of the water, since more usual LA +1 stats are +2/+2, this is about +14 to various stats. Then it gets a bonus feat, some skills and a not-very-good save or die attack.

So, I'd say it needs to be stronger as a monster, or weaker as a player race. Difficult to say which. I'd say bring the mental stats down substantially and give it a strength bonus so it can effectively grapple, and give it LA +2, and it should be fine.

Eldan
2015-10-29, 06:55 PM
Oh, and this:


Spells and psionic memories can only be used by gedächtnis essers that have the respective spellcasting and/or psionic capability. The save DC is Charisma-based.

This needs more explanation. YOu never mention what gaining a victim's memories actually does, except here hinting at that you can learn spells this way. Do you add to spells and powers known? Do you get skills? Feats? Class features?

If the answer to any of that is yes, then this probably just jumped up more than a few levels in level adjustment.

Debihuman
2015-10-29, 06:57 PM
I copied from the Wiki exactly as they had it. Other sources have it that way as well including the official NBC website. See here: http://www.nbc.com/grimm/episodes

I think even temporarily gaining feats and skills is overpowered. Definitely not any special abilities or special attacks. Updated to make it the spells/powers from the past 24 hours can be used. Based it on Memory Moss to clarify.

I think the sample creature would work better if I'd rearranged the elite stats or used a different class,BUT this gives me a fair idea of where it falls.

Thanks for the feedback.

Updated to reflect the feat weapon finesse with unarmed strike.

Debby

Eldan
2015-10-29, 09:28 PM
Oh, those are elite array stats? You should really indicate that somewhere.

Honestly, I think it would be helpful if you had the base form of the creature somewhere, with no monk levels. Just as a monster. Or gave it's stat adjustments. If it has a 15 in charisma, that suddenly becomes a lot more reasonable.

Debihuman
2015-10-30, 11:08 AM
Any time you post a creature with a class in 3.5, it should be with the elite array actually. I don't often post monsters where their first HD is substituted and I forgot to mention it earlier.

The problem is there are so many different kinds of wesen, it would be impossible to have a "generic" monster. In a lot of ways it's like lycanthropy but without the curse.

Debby

Eldan
2015-10-30, 11:14 AM
No, that's not the case. No idea where you picked that up. Look at the basic creatures in, say, the MM1.
Like the orc warrior here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/orc.htm)
The orc warrior presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8.

That's the standard array, not the elite array. I don't think I've ever actualy seen a creature in a monster manual with the elite array. And ability adjustments should still be mentioned somewhere. So, what are this thing's stats?

Also, the challenge rating? If one says that monk is an associated class (makes sense, it's grappling-focused), that's +1 CR, and elite array is +1 CR, so that would make this, what? CR 1/2? I can't really say, it's still stronger than a base creature, though I can't say how strong since I don't know the stats.

Debihuman
2015-10-31, 06:56 AM
Wesen don't get racial adjustments as woge usually adds them (and each type will vary). See racial traits. At least I didn't add any racial adjustments to the Gedächtnis essers . This is one of the foibles in attempting to match an NPC or monster to fit the paradigm of a TV show. It's never a perfect fit.