[3.5] Marshal Fixes

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

So, I've seen some common fixes for the Marshal (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) (MH p. ll), which is generally seen as fairly underpowered (except for a dip and Cha bonus abuse) and quite boring to play.

The one I've seen most often are:
- Full BAB
- Faster progression of major aura bonus
- Giving it some kind of initiator progression (White Raven etc.)

Which of these works best, and which others have you seen?

I play in a low-op group, so the as written Marshal isn't too horrible in my games, but I'm open to suggestions.

Cheers - T

[Troacctid]

The biggest problems with the class are:

It has no class features and
It doesn't do anything.

So what you need to do is give it class features and make it do something, and preferably, you want to accomplish these things while keeping the class's core identity intact. Of the three fixes you mentioned, the first two don't solve either problem. The third is okay, but it depends on the specifics.

I would actually strongly consider porting in abilities from 4th Edition's Warlord class. Delete the Grant Move Action class feature and give the Marshal at-will, encounter, daily, and utility exploits from the Warlord's list. (Don't indlude any class features other than exploits--those are replaced by the auras.) You'd have to adjust the progression slightly to account for 3.5's multiclassing system so as to avoid making the class too frontloaded, but otherwise it would be a relatively simple port.

[Rubik]

You could gestalt marshal with soulknife AND divine mind AND soulborn and still have some room left over for a few additions.

Yes, they're all just that bad.

[Seerow]

I have a Marshal Fix, but if the standard marshal is okay for your group, it may be a bit too much for you. Feel free to check it out though: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?392716-The-Marshal-Revitalized

[daremetoidareyo]

Give them 6 skill points per level, and a choice between tower shield and siege weapon proficiency.

Allow certain prestige classes to advance your marshaling.

War mind, warchief, and warmaster (allow that ability that behaves as a bardic music allow bard feats too)+ war chanter/dwarven chanter/halfling whistler.

Then add a bonus feat at 5, 10, 15, and 20th levels. These can also be exchanged for skirmish 1d6.

At eighth level I would grab heartfire fanner's ability to grant feats to others so long as they are not heritage or bloodline feats.

Allow skill focus diplomacy to be replaced by any feat.

I've never seen a marshal used in real life.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Gestalt with Fighter, bump up their skills to 4/level, and let their Grant Move Action ability be usable more often. That should give you a nice functional war-leader class without going too power crazy.

EDIT: If we're linking full-on rewrite, I've got one too (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?394280-The-Marshal-Revised-%28Simple-Tier-3-Project%29&p=18695277#post18695277). The aura is rewritten to apply a whole stack of boosts to your allies and penalties to your enemies, they get a bunch of AoO/reach weapon special abilities, and some charisma stuff like easy intimidation and a reputation.

[ngilop]

I think this is the best marshal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?224745-Marshal-Re-tool-pleale-critique))fix on GiTP, but others are good as well, like seerows

[Nifft]

Mix Marshal with Dragonfire Adept, and call the results a Dragon Shaman. (Or maybe mix Marshal with Warlock, and call the results a Hellfire Warlord.)

Give Marshal the initiator progression of a Swordsage (but no other Swordsage features), and access to any 4 Disciplines. Yeah, they'll have to eat a feat slot for Adaptive Style, but whatever: it's still great.

I'm curious if a Warmage-Marshal hybrid would have enough synergy. That would at least give the poor guy something to do in combat. Maybe throw a few Bard-list mass-buffs into the Warmarshal spell-list.

Final thought: mix with Ranger, and apply double your major aura bonus vs. any Favored Enemy. Change the spell-list a bit to buff troops rather than have the plants-and-animals focus. Call this mix a Tactical Commander.

[prufock]

http://fulcrumdnd.wikidot.com/paladin

I took marshal, paladin, knight, and hexbladeand threw them in a blender. This is what came out.

[Thurbane]

Thanks for the replies. Some of those re-writes look promising.

I'm pretty keen on giving them some kind of initiator progression.

So, if I gave them full BAB, major aura scales up faster (+1 at 2nd, +2 at 6th, +3 at 10th, +4 at 14th, +5 at 18th) and the progression of a Crusader, would the result be reasonable?

Alternative, how about if you just gestalted Marshal with Knight?

[Grod_The_Giant]

So, if I gave them full BAB, major aura scales up faster (+1 at 2nd, +2 at 6th, +3 at 10th, +4 at 14th, +5 at 18th) and the progression of a Crusader, would the result be reasonable?
Sure, don't see why not. You're trading a bit of personal endurance for minor ally buffs.


Alternative, how about if you just gestalted Marshal with Knight?
Also a fine idea. Decent Charisma synergy, too. Bump them up to 4 skill points/level, though.

[Ryuuk]

Here's a piece of homebrew, The Demented One's Warlord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?83559-From-4e-to-3-5-The-Warlord-Base-Class), that tries to do Marshall + Maneuvers. Might be along the lines of what you're looking for.