Mounted combat and medium creatures

[Maxilian]

Hi there!, i have been thinking on creating a mounted Knight (the new Paladin oath pushed me to it, cause it gives the extra hand that your mount needs to survive), but... i have a really big problem, if i take anything else than a small race i won't be able to work with my build in almost every dungeon (and... the name of the game is Dungeons and dragons for a reason), any way to work around this?

In case i end up going with a small race... what are interesting mounts options? (Yeah we all know that the Wolf spider is a great option -known if that's even avaible, i assume as long as it have equal or less CR than the riding horse is ok, right?-)

[Vogonjeltz]

Hi there!, i have been thinking on creating a mounted Knight (the new Paladin oath pushed me to it, cause it gives the extra hand that your mount needs to survive), but... i have a really big problem, if i take anything else than a small race i won't be able to work with my build in almost every dungeon (and... the name of the game is Dungeons and dragons for a reason), any way to work around this?

In case i end up going with a small race... what are interesting mounts options? (Yeah we all know that the Wolf spider is a great option -known if that's even avaible, i assume as long as it have equal or less CR than the riding horse is ok, right?-)

If your mount isn't bigger than the opponent, you wouldn't benefit from mounted combat.

[MaxWilson]

Hi there!, i have been thinking on creating a mounted Knight (the new Paladin oath pushed me to it, cause it gives the extra hand that your mount needs to survive), but... i have a really big problem, if i take anything else than a small race i won't be able to work with my build in almost every dungeon (and... the name of the game is Dungeons and dragons for a reason), any way to work around this?

In case i end up going with a small race... what are interesting mounts options? (Yeah we all know that the Wolf spider is a great option -known if that's even avaible, i assume as long as it have equal or less CR than the riding horse is ok, right?-)

It's totally DM-dependent. By the book, the only options you have are warhorse, camel, pony, mastiff, and elk. There's not much point in me suggesting e.g. a Centipede or a Giant Poisonous Snake unless your DM has already pre-approved it.

I wouldn't worry too much about the dungeon size thing though. Remember you can squeeze a large-sized creature into a medium-sized space. (PHB 192, Squeezing Into A Smaller Space.) It has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dex saves, and enemies have advantage to attack it, but Mounted Combatant will mostly protect it from those things anyway. But the main reason I wouldn't worry too much about it is that DMs love to use large monsters, so as long as you can get your mount into the space where the fight takes place there will probably often (but not always) be somewhere for your mount to stand. Plus you're a paladin, you can always just resummon the mount where you need it.

However, I wouldn't necessarily count on having advantage in melee. Of all the things Mounted Combatant gives you, that is the most situational benefit. Think of Mounted Combatant as something which keeps your mount alive to do things like make free Disengages for you and make extra opportunity attacks, or possibly even real attacks depending on how your DM interprets Find Steed. It also lets you use a d12 weapon (lance) and a shield simultaneously, so it's a bit of a damage bonus for you in addition to giving the mobility advantage.

A couple of quirky ideas worth mentioning, from my own experience with mounted paladins:

1.) One awesome thing to do, if you can stomach the fluff contortions necessary, is for a Warlock 2/Paladin X to use his mount to double the effectiveness of Armor of Agathys. E.g. when you cast Armor of Agathys III, both you and your mount get 15 temp HP and a 15-damage effect. Also you can Expeditious Retreat yourself and your mount simultaneously, so that your trusty steed (Warhorse presumably) can move towards an enemy, attack them (possibly knocking prone) while you attack them twice, possibly at advantage if they're Medium sized, with your lance, and then your steed bonus action Disengages away so that once they climb back to their feet they can't even attack you back. If they run away instead of pursuing you just Eldritch Blast them with impunity. Fluff-wise it's a weird class combination, but mechanically there are some cool synergies. Just stay away from Fiendlock/Paladins, those guys are mechanically even more awesome than Cthuloid/Feylock paladins but impossible (IMO) to make believable from a fluff standpoint. Plus, telepathy is just plain rad for RPing.

2.) Another truly weird idea is, since you can force attackers to target you, to let your mount do all the attacking in some combats while you focus purely on Dodging for defense. With Shield of Faith and Defense style you can have AC 23, with attackers at disadvantage. Against "trash" mobs like orcs and hobgoblins (not trash in a pejorative sense, since they are still plenty dangerous, but trash in the sense of being a quantity-over-quality threat) you'll take very little damage while your horse charges around, trampling for up to 20 points of damage per round, possibly taking out an orc a round.

Just watch out for attackers who get wise and try to Shove you off your horse. Dodging doesn't help against that, and once you fall off, you're prone and your horse is toast.

[Maxilian]

If your mount isn't bigger than the opponent, you wouldn't benefit from mounted combat.

It doesn't bother me to not be able to get advantage of this, i'm just not sure if i want to play a small race (i'm already playing a Deep Gnome Wizard) -Mounted Combat main point for me is the possibility to make attacks target me instead of my mount-

[Maxilian]

It's totally DM-dependent. By the book, the only options you have are warhorse, camel, pony, mastiff, and elk. There's not much point in me suggesting e.g. a Centipede or a Giant Poisonous Snake unless your DM has already pre-approved it.

True, well... i just know that if i end up going with a small race, i will sweet talk my DM into letting me have a Giant Frog as my mount :P (Wow... i totally forgot that the elk was an option!)



I wouldn't worry too much about the dungeon size thing though. Remember you can squeeze a large-sized creature into a medium-sized space. (PHB 192, Squeezing Into A Smaller Space.) It has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dex saves, and enemies have advantage to attack it, but Mounted Combatant will mostly protect it from those things anyway. But the main reason I wouldn't worry too much about it is that DMs love to use large monsters, so as long as you can get your mount into the space where the fight takes place there will probably often (but not always) be somewhere for your mount to stand. Plus you're a paladin, you can always just resummon the mount where you need it.


I though about that, but i'm not sure that my DM will be happy with this (squeezing my poor mount through that door):P but is true, i can just resummon my mount whenever needed



However, I wouldn't necessarily count on having advantage in melee. Of all the things Mounted Combatant gives you, that is the most situational benefit. Think of Mounted Combatant as something which keeps your mount alive to do things like make free Disengages for you and make extra opportunity attacks, or possibly even real attacks depending on how your DM interprets Find Steed. It also lets you use a d12 weapon (lance) and a shield simultaneously, so it's a bit of a damage bonus for you in addition to giving the mobility advantage.


Do not worry i have always seen MC as something to keep my mount alive :P (it doesn't bother me to use small races because of this, is just that i don't want to be forced into X or Y race), also... the use of a lance gave my an idea of making a Mosquito Knight that ride a Frog (the mental image is just funny)



A couple of quirky ideas worth mentioning, from my own experience with mounted paladins:

1.) One awesome thing to do, if you can stomach the fluff contortions necessary, is for a Warlock 2/Paladin X to use his mount to double the effectiveness of Armor of Agathys. E.g. when you cast Armor of Agathys III, both you and your mount get 15 temp HP and a 15-damage effect. Also you can Expeditious Retreat yourself and your mount simultaneously, so that your trusty steed (Warhorse presumably) can move towards an enemy, attack them (possibly knocking prone) while you attack them twice, possibly at advantage if they're Medium sized, with your lance, and then your steed bonus action Disengages away so that once they climb back to their feet they can't even attack you back. If they run away instead of pursuing you just Eldritch Blast them with impunity. Fluff-wise it's a weird class combination, but mechanically there are some cool synergies. Just stay away from Fiendlock/Paladins, those guys are mechanically even more awesome than Cthuloid/Feylock paladins but impossible (IMO) to make believable from a fluff standpoint. Plus, telepathy is just plain rad for RPing.


Not really planning on MC into warlock (even if the Armor of Agathys combo do wonders for my mount, i don't expect to have it taking damage -reason why i want to go Oath of the Crown-



2.) Another truly weird idea is, since you can force attackers to target you, to let your mount do all the attacking in some combats while you focus purely on Dodging for defense. With Shield of Faith and Defense style you can have AC 23, with attackers at disadvantage. Against "trash" mobs like orcs and hobgoblins (not trash in a pejorative sense, since they are still plenty dangerous, but trash in the sense of being a quantity-over-quality threat) you'll take very little damage while your horse charges around, trampling for up to 20 points of damage per round, possibly taking out an orc a round.


Sounds really fun, and also sounds like something an arrogant character would do

"HA!
Do you really believe you can beat me
Well then... come with all you got!
My loyal steed like to take care of trash like you"



Just watch out for attackers who get wise and try to Shove you off your horse. Dodging doesn't help against that, and once you fall off, you're prone and your horse is toast.

Good point, hmmm... that reminds me that there's a magic item to evade this (i will have to be carefull with this)

[MaxWilson]

True, well... i just know that if i end up going with a small race, i will sweet talk my DM into letting me have a Giant Frog as my mount :P (Wow... i totally forgot that the elk was an option!) *snip*
Do not worry i have always seen MC as something to keep my mount alive :P (it doesn't bother me to use small races because of this, is just that i don't want to be forced into X or Y race), also... the use of a lance gave my an idea of making a Mosquito Knight that ride a Frog (the mental image is just funny)

Sounds like you've got the right idea. :) Fun and Awesome are more important than anything else.

Giant Frog jumped out at me too when I was looking through the list of beasts. I also like Giant Centipede for some reason. I like Giant Wolf Spider for fluff reasons (because they look like neogis, which could be fun if you meet neogis while mounted on your Giant Wolf Spider), and as a DM I did a Fighter/Warlock NPC mounted on a giant bat, which might be fun as a PC if your DM was okay with it. What might be even more fun, if you've seen Willow, if a Tiny PC whose mount was a normal-sized owl or raven. Probably not combat-effective unless you're using finesse weapons or missile weapons, but definitely hilarious. (Edit: actually, given how Flyby works with owls, it might be combat-effective after all.)

[Hudsonian]

if a Tiny PC

which PCs are TINY?