How Does Thieving Mindlink Work?

[Rubik]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindlinkThieving.htm

As far as I can tell, you:

A.) Manifest T.M. on a willing creature, but it gets a Will save to avoid, even if it's willing. You can then communicate telepathically with it. If that creature is a manifester, you can...

B.) Make a melee or ranged attack against that creature as a standard action that provokes AoOs. If you succeed on the attack, you lose the telepathic communication but can...

C.) Know every power of the creature, up to the level you can normally manifest, and borrow one of your choice.

D.) You keep this power until the duration of T.M. expires.

The DC improves by +1 for every 2 extra pp you spend, but it doesn't give the option for manifesting against an unwilling subject, and the only reason we know you can do B.) is because it mentions an attack but doesn't give any details at all. If you were to force an additional Will save, it would say so. Right? But as it stands, you just make an attack as a separate standard action.

This is a very poorly worded power.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I think you're overthinking this.

A.)
except that if the target is a psionic character or creature that knows powers means the target doesn't have to be willing. And a willing creature can deliberately fail its save.
The target does have to be a manifester though - the target needs to be psionic or know powers (can you know powers without being psionic?).

B.) You don't make an attack roll to borrow a power - you use a standard action, the target gets a save. If it fails the save you get the power. The range is close, as Mindlink. So you'd use one standard action to manifest TM, then another standard action to borrow the power, both of which get a will save to negate. Both actions provoke AoO's, as normal for manifesting.

C.) You're aware of the targets powers (up to the level you can manifest) as soon as you establish the link (so you know if it's worth spending another action stealing one).

D.) yes

[Rubik]

I think you're overthinking this.

A.) means the target doesn't have to be willing. And a willing creature can deliberately fail its save."As Mindlink" means that the target line remains the same. You cannot target a non-willing creature, as the target entry in Mindlink specifies willing creatures only, and T.M. doesn't give any options to change that.


The target does have to be a manifester though - the target needs to be psionic or know powers (can you know powers without being psionic?).You cannot know powers without being psionic, but you can be psionic without knowing powers.

Soulknives, for instance.

Even spellcasters who cast spells to use psionic powers would gain the [psionic] subtype for the duration of the spell, as you would be [psionic] by definition while the duration lasts.


B.) You don't make an attack roll to borrow a power - you use a standard action, the target gets a save. If it fails the save you get the power. The range is close, as Mindlink. So you'd use one standard action to manifest TM, then another standard action to borrow the power, both of which get a will save to negate. Both actions provoke AoO's, as normal for manifesting.It says you make an attack, but it doesn't say you use the power to attack.

[Troacctid]

You don't make an attack. You provoke an attack of opportunity.

[sleepyphoenixx]

"As Mindlink" means that the target line remains the same. You cannot target a non-willing creature, as the target entry in Mindlink specifies willing creatures only, and T.M. doesn't give any options to change that.
It's in the first line of the power description. I even quoted it. EDIT: My bad, i missed the "if" there. It's indeed willing-only, which makes it a lot less useful.
Unless you interpret the "as Mindlink" to also allow the augment options of that power.


It says you make an attack, but it doesn't say you use the power to attack.

No it doesn't. It says that the act of borrowing a power is an attack. So it'd break Invisibility and do all the other things that attacks do.
Nowhere does it say that you make an attack roll or that it's a touch attack.

You use a standard action. That action provokes. Since it's part of the power it uses the powers range and save.

[NEO|Phyte]

"As Mindlink" means that the target line remains the same. You cannot target a non-willing creature, as the target entry in Mindlink specifies willing creatures only, and T.M. doesn't give any options to change that.

If 'as mindlink' includes mindlink's augments, you can augment for 4 PP to target nonwilling creatures. It is somewhat likely that thieving mindlink was intended to be able to target nonwilling by default, but unless the writer of it shows up to say something, we'll probably never know.