Longbows and bucklers

[Zel]

Hello, quick question about the usefulness and rules about using a buckler with a longbow. First of all, it makes sense to wear a buckler as a ranged archer, right? Masterwork reduces armor check penalty to 0 and adds +1 to AC. I don't see any downsides but I'm not sure on the rules interpretation.

Do you lose the AC bonus from the buckler in a round where you weild a longbow and fire an arrow? Does holding a bow in the buckler shield arm count as wielding a 2-handed weapon? Thanks in advance for the help.


Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.

You can’t bash someone with a buckler.

[Matthew]

The AB penalty is not the same as the Armour Check Penalty. As it stands, a character gets -1 AB when he uses a Buckler with a Long Bow or any other Two Handed Weapon (A Long Bow is a Two Handed Weapon), regardless of the Armour Check Penalty. Without the Improved Buckler Defence Feat he also loses any AC Bonus derived from it when shooting/attacking, just like when attacking with a Shield.

[Jasdoif]

As it stands, a character gets -1 AB when he uses a Buckler with a Long Bow or any other Two Handed Weapon (A Long Bow is a Two Handed Weapon).I don't think the AB penalty applies to bows and crossbows, since the buckler's description says you can use a bow or crossbow without penalty. You can already use any two-handed weapon while wearing a buckler, so what other penalty then the -1 AB could it be referring to?

[Matthew]

Oh yeah. Hmmn. I wasn't thinking carrying it referred to wielding it, since Bucklers are strapped on, but I suppose it must. That is an odd clause, given that it precedes the penalties.

[Edit]
What kind of penalty would you ordinarily get from carrying an item in one hand whilst trying to use a Bow or Cross Bow? You probably just wouldn't be able to, I suppose. I guess that could be considered a penalty...

[El Jaspero, the Pirate King]

What kind of penalty would you ordinarily get from carrying an item in one hand whilst trying to use a Bow or Cross Bow? You probably just wouldn't be able to, I suppose. I guess that could be considered a penalty...

Bingo. Unless the weapon specifically states it can be fired one-handed (like, say, a light crossbow) you simply can't fire it with something in your other hand.

[Attilargh]

Getting -1 to hit from wielding an item that does not give a penalty does not make very much sense.

Wait, Dungeons and Dragons. Sorry, carry on.

[Ryuuk]

From my understanding, the penalty that the second sentence refers to is the -1 to attack. You don´t actually hold the buckler, you strap it to your arm leaving your hand free. You could wear a buckler while using the bow or crossbow, but you would not get the shield bonus for the round.

[Jasdoif]

[Edit]
What kind of penalty would you ordinarily get from carrying an item in one hand whilst trying to use a Bow or Cross Bow? You probably just wouldn't be able to, I suppose. I guess that could be considered a penalty...I blame inconsistent terminology for this one. I also see that a druid is prohibited from "carrying" a metal shield, whereas the other shield references I see refer to "using" a shield. Does "carrying" mean in your hand only, or in your backpack as well?

I dunno what they're trying to mean. Shields as a whole look to be handled oddly in D20, to me at least.

[the_tick_rules]

the -1 attack penalty is from the weight of the bucklers interfering with your actions. Your sword or bow hand in slightly off balance from the weight. there's no rule saying if you have a mithril buckler that the -1 attack penalty goes away, but it's a reasonable house rule.

[deadseashoals]

You lose the AC bonus if you fire your bow, or use two hands to fire your crossbow, but you otherwise take no penalty for using a masterwork buckler with a bow or crossbow.

[Zel]

So the most reasonable interpretation to me is:

A buckler grants +1 AC, this bonus does not apply in a round where a bow is fired. The only thing that seems a little murky is this line here:


In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.

So I guess firing a bow takes your main hand and off hand at the same time? A bow is also a two-handed weapon? I appreciate the input, since the rules are not 100% clear to me in this case.

[Matthew]

A Bow isn't strictly a Two Handed Weapon, but it does require two hands to use. Consequently, a Character's Off Hand is, for all intents, 'using a weapon' (this has also come up with regards to Shooting a Bow and using the 'free hand' to Deflect Arrows). As you can see from the above discourse, it is possible that Shooting a Bow whilst using a Buckler also imposes -1 AB, but there is no clarification on that point and it is possible to read things both ways.

All in all, it is a bit of a grey area and you would be best advised to ask your DM about it, but be sure to make him aware of all the possibilities, advantages and disadvantages. If he rules favourably, be prepared for all Monsters with Bows to adopt Bucklers!