A little help with a Decent build for an Unchained barbarian

[lynxd80]

Greetings, everyone!

So, a buddy of mine is starting a new Pathfinder Campaign with characters starting at level 3. As such, I have decided to play an Unchained Barbarian and be the "Rush in and knock them flat" sort of warrior. As such, I have a list of Feats and Rage Powers I'm delving into and could use some opinions on whether they're solid choices and combo well together.

As such, the character currently is starting with as the following:

Human in Hide Shirt wielding a Great Axe

Str - 18
Dex - 16
Con - 14
Int - 8
Wis - 12
Cha - 10

Planned List of Rage Powers

2nd level - Lesser Beast Totem
4th level – Scent
6th level - Beast Totem
8th level - Internal Fortitude (Must buy flawed Scarlet and Green Cabochon to make good.)
10th level - Greater Beast Totem
12th level - Strength Surge
14th level - Unexpected Strike
16th level - Come and get me
18th level - No Escape
20th level - Body Bludgeon

Planned List of Feats:

Human Bonus – Improved Initiative
1st – Raging Vitality
3rd – Power Attack
5th –Step-Up
7th – Improved Overrun
9th – Greater Overrun
11th – Charge Through
13th – Combat Reflexes
15th – Reckless Rage
17th – Improved Sunder
19th – Greater Sunder

My idea is that by the time I hit Level 11, I can be Charging and using the "Pounce"+"Power Attack" to nail them (my foes) with a heavy hit and, in corrolation, use the combo of "Charge through" + "Greater Overrun" to knock them on their rumps and gain the attack of Opportunity. That being said, does this seem feasible at all or is their a better way to do this? Also, does the additional feats and powers play well with this idea or is there a better route to take with them?

Any/all comments are appreciated! And, Thanks, ahead of time!

~Lynx D.

[Novawurmson]

This is a fine build. I would shift Strength Surge and Improved Overrun to a lower level so you can use them for more of your adventuring career.

At high levels, I'd drop Improved/Greater Sunder. They're going to be relatively useless by the time you get them. Maybe something like Raging Brutality (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/raging-brutality). Actually, you might take Raging Brutality before Reckless Rage.

Don't forget about the Extra Rage Power feat for getting more/earlier rage powers.

[Spore]

With the advent of the Bloodrager and the Unchained Barbarian there are many more interesting ways for Rage Powers. I lack the time to explain myself but you should look into the new stance rage powers and bloodline rage powers.

If you want a simple build for a newish player however this is fine. Keep in mind that some of your choices are suboptimal (Come and Get Me or Provocative Stance for example should be gotten as early as can be and the Scent rage power is hardly useful).

[lynxd80]

Appreciate the suggestions Nova and Spore. As such, I've looked around a bit more and made a few changes. If you would like, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the new setup:

Rage Powers:

2nd level - Lesser Beast Totem
4th level – Strength Surge
6th level - Beast Totem
8th level - Internal Fortitude ((Buy a flawed Scarlet and Green Cabochon to start “Rage-cycle”.))
10th level - Greater Beast Totem
12th level – Come and get me
14th level - Auspicious Mark
16th level - Unexpected Strike
18th level - No Escape
20th level - Body Bludgeon

Feats:

Human Bonus – Improved Initiative
1st – Raging Vitality
3rd – Power Attack
5th – Improved Overrun
7th – Combat Reflexes
9th – Greater Overrun
11th – Charge Through
13th – Extra Rage Power (Overbearing advance)
15th – Raging Brutality
17th – Reckless Rage
19th – Extra Rage Power (Mighty Swing)

Thanks, once again, for the suggestions! And, if anyone else has any: I'm all ears!

~Lynx D.

[Spore]

Remember that the Invulnerable Rager Archetype axes Danger Sense and Uncanny Dodge - two arguably complicated abilities - for a far easier and far more useful Damage Reduction.

[lynxd80]

I don't find uncanny Dodge to difficult... But, the "Danger Sense" seems a little iffy. I like the idea of DR/- and the permanent "Endure Elements" options. We've only played a brief "setup" game. I think I might just go ahead and make adjustments now and let the DM know when we get together. Thanks for the good suggestion!

~Lynx D.

[Novawurmson]

Oh, crap. You're Unchained Barbarian.

The Unchained Barbarian can't rage cycle - they don't have access to any 1/rage rage powers, so they don't gain any benefit from dropping and regaining rage.

[Spore]

I don't find uncanny Dodge to difficult...

Sorry, I screwed up and thought this was your build for a complete beginner friend. I guess I read too much into the simplicity of the overall performance of the build.

[Florian]

I don't think this build actually works.
Most of these are old rage powers no longer supported by unchained, like come and get me.
In addition, too much of a one-trick pony, coming lnline too late and no real defensive options.

[lynxd80]

Well, crud... Hmm... So I'm going to have to rethink the whole thing, is what you're saying? Darn! I knew it was to Good to be true! Another time unchained has forced me to rebuild a character concept due to limitations... I'm starting to wonder Why I let Myself get talked into these sorts of classes XD.well, I'll think on it and research some more to see what I can come up with... I'll post, again, when I've figured it out.

Thanks for the help!

[Florian]

Well, crud... Hmm... So I'm going to have to rethink the whole thing, is what you're saying? Darn! I knew it was to Good to be true! Another time unchained has forced me to rebuild a character concept due to limitations... I'm starting to wonder Why I let Myself get talked into these sorts of classes XD.well, I'll think on it and research some more to see what I can come up with... I'll post, again, when I've figured it out.

Thanks for the help!

Nah. You made it pretty clear what goal you want to reach. That is still reachable. But like with switching from 3.5 to PF, the way how to get there changed. But there had been some shifts in efficiency and you should want to rethink if the stated goal is the most efficient thing you can get out of this.

A simple example: You now have rage stances and they conform to the usual limit of only one stance at a time. Unlike the previous incarnation of that class, these stances do include things that used to be 1/rage and ragecycling was necessary to keep them up. A good example would be Surprise Acccuracy. You no longer have to do that. Enter that stance and it will keep up the entire rage.

What I do think is, that you want to get an other kind of brutality out of your Unchained barbarian right now and that is one based on managing stances for maximum effect.

[lynxd80]

Alright... With frustration aside and a fresh breath, I dropped everything that i couldn't see as working and revisited the UNchained Barbarian and his stances. Here's what I'm thinking, now...

Rage Powers:

2nd level - Lesser Beast Totem
4th level – Powerful Stance
6th level - Beast Totem
8th level –Unexpected Strike
10th level - Greater Beast Totem
12th level –Intimidating Glare
14th level –Terrifying Howl
16th level - Auspicious Mark
18th level –Increased DR/-
20th level –Increased DR/-
Feats:

Human Bonus – Improved Initiative
1st – Raging Vitality
3rd – Power Attack
5th – Extra Rage
7th – Raging Brutality
9th – Reckless Rage
11th – Extra Rage Power : No Escape
13th –Extra Rage Power: Shove aside
15th – Extra Rage Power: Mighty Swing
17th –Extra Rage
19th – Extra Rage Power: Increased DR/-

Think it's a Right step? Or, is it still disjointed? Note: I tried to make myself a little less of a one trick pony. Not sure if it worked or not. Thoughts?

~Lynx D.

[Florian]

@lynxd80:

Basically, that looks like it could work out. Me personally, I still wouldn't use it. In my opinion, you're still lacking in the defensive department.

Some thoughts:
Pounce is great, the way to reach it isn't. If someone had to play this character up from lvl3, he won't have fun with the beast totem rage powers. Compress them and place them later as a block, so you have a routine of Rage Power - Extra Rage Power - Rage Power going and enter Greater Beast totem quick without being a burden to get there, something that'll be a pain if that campaign ends early.

Maybe I missed it, but you didn't mention what PB value is used. So I assume PB15 as a basic: You have some Cha-based Rage Powers in there, without going the Str-to-Cha route. That doesn't really seem feasible. See feats later on.

Now considering items: You can gain access to (or outright upgrade) certain Rage Powers through items, the Torc of Lionheart Fury and the Helm of Fearsome Mien. Look these up. You'll see that you can gain the Intimidating Glare power that way and Fearless Rahe will improve your mileage a lot, especially in regard to higher level enemies with stuff like fear aura, that can keep your rage fuled.

You seem to base your choices on an Alpha Strike kind of setup, disreagarding upping your number of possible attacks by exploiting AoOs, thereby getting more out of your rage.

For feats, I'd focus on simple, brutal things. Combat Reflexes and Power Attack to start with, Dazing Assault and Strike back later on, maybe throwing an Improved Critical in the mix to have fun with a falchion. Improved Initiative is a waste. Let your wizards win ini and have a go at BFC, then its time for you to act. Consider replacing that with Intimidating Prowess to get the Str-to-Cha routine going. Do remember: Intimidate is good for low-lebel debuffing and an excelent option if you don't know wjat to do in a given combat round.

For an offensive defense, I'd go Superstition/Witch Hunter, maybe even Spell Eater and Disruptive (If you chose a reach weapon). Remember, that stuff works on about three quarters of any critters beyond the lowest levels.

[lynxd80]

Hmm...I've thought about what youve said... I think you might be right about the way I've been going into it. I'm not sure if I like Supersticious alot, but it does have some rather nice benefits. I think I'm going to drop my original concept and go with a different route. Could you tell me what you might think of this outline? Note: I'm not sure what you mean by "PB Value" unless you're talking Point Buy. In which case, the value is 25. My previous stats are above, but I might finagle it a little to improve my charisma over wisdom...

Here's what I re-planned:

Rage Powers:

2nd level – Superstitious
4th level – Witchhunter
6th level – Eater of Magic
8th level – Disruptive
10th level – Terrifying Howl (Have a Helm of Fearsome Mien to meet requirement)
12th level – Fearless Rage (Have a Torc of Lionheart fury)
14th level – Accurate Stance
16th level – Lethal Accuracy
18th level – Taunting Stance
20th level – Powerful Stance

Feats:

Human Bonus – Raging Vitality
1st – Power Attack
3rd – Combat Reflexes
5th –Raging Brutality
7th – Intimidating Prowess
9th – Extra Rage Power - Unexpected Strike
11th – Strike back
13th – Extra Rage Power – Renewed Vitality
15th –Extra Rage power – Deadly Accuracy
17th – Extra Rage
19th – Extra Rage Power - Mighty Swing

Or, (If I keep with trying for pounce) something like this:


Rage Powers:

2nd level – Superstitious
4th level – Witchhunter
6th level – Accurate Stance
8th level –Lesser Beast Totem
10th level – Greater Beast Totem
12th level – Fearless Rage (Have a Torc of Lionheart fury)
14th level –Disruptive
16th level – Lethal Accuracy
18th level – Taunting Stance
20th level – Powerful Stance

Feats:

Human Bonus – Raging Vitality
1st – Power Attack
3rd – Combat Reflexes
5th – Raging Brutality
7th – Extra Rage Power - Mighty Swing
9th – Extra Rage Power - Beast Totem
11th – Extra Rage Power – Deadly Accuracy
13th – Extra Rage
15th – Strike Back
17th – SpellBreaker
19th – Extra Rage

Either build, I'm going to need a Falchion with Keen or a Scabbard of Keen Edges. Thoughts/opinions?