Help with Time Stop

[tim01300]

A monk in the party has recently acquired an item allowing him to stop time for 2 rounds like the spell. He asked me if he is able to make heal checks or use potions on party members while time is stopped. I feel like yes to the heal check but no to the potion. He can't move or affect other creatures and I think that would be needed to pour a potion down someones throat. Does anyone know if there is any more in depth rulings or descriptions for the Time Stop spell and what is allowed or not?

[legomaster00156]

No, he cannot affect other creatures in any way, whether positive or negative.

[elonin]

If the monk has an affect that lasts longer than the time stop then it would still be active.

[A_S]

No, he cannot affect other creatures in any way, whether positive or negative.
Where are you getting this idea from?

The actual text of the spell says "While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell." It doesn't restrict your ability to affect other creatures in any other way.

I believe the monk in the OP's party should be able to use heal checks and potions on party members as normal, since they are neither attacks nor spells. There is some room to argue that giving another creature a potion "targets" them with the spell contained in the potion, but I think that's stretching it.

[Evolved Shrimp]

The actual text of the spell says "While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell." It doesn't restrict your ability to affect other creatures in any other way.

But the spell description also says:

all other creatures seem frozen
And:

You cannot move […] items held, carried, or worn by creatures stuck in normal time

This strongly suggests to me that other creatures are completely immobile. So while you might technically be able to give them a potion, in practice there is no way to get it into their stomachs. (Even if they happen to have their mouths open and tilted enough, pouring it down their throat would just get it into the lung.)

Ointments and similar externally applied substances might work, though.

[Segev]

Potions are spell effects, so are prohibited under that clause.

[atemu1234]

But the spell description also says:

all other creatures seem frozen
And:

You cannot move […] items held, carried, or worn by creatures stuck in normal time

This strongly suggests to me that other creatures are completely immobile. So while you might technically be able to give them a potion, in practice there is no way to get it into their stomachs. (Even if they happen to have their mouths open and tilted enough, pouring it down their throat would just get it into the lung.)

Ointments and similar externally applied substances might work, though.

'Implied' means next to nothing in a RAW discussion.

[DarkSoul]

I did some looking and didn't find much to elaborate on Time Stop beyond the Epic Level Handbook. That being said, strictly by the rules there's a strong case to disallow both actions.

Giving potions to your allies isn't strictly prohibited because it only bans attacking and casting spells on them, but if you look at the 3.5 DMG, it says this about potions and oils:


Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn’t get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. For example, a potion of protection from energy is always designed to protect against a specific energy type chosen by the creator, not the drinker. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect, such as with levitate).

The person applying an oil is the effective caster, but the object is the target.

Therefore, I wouldn't allow you to feed a potion to someone else because it's causing a spell to take effect on them. Yes, they are the caster of the effect when they drink a potion so it's not technically your spell, but that means they'd have to be able to actually drink said potion to have it take effect and unless they can act during your time stop, it's impossible for anyone but you to drink something. Oils are a little more self explanatory: you're effectively trying to cast something on whatever you're applying the oil to. If that something is another being, you can't do it.

Regarding the Heal skill, Time Stop says this:


You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession.

So how do you dress a wound when you can't move or harm anything they're wearing? You can't use a tourniquet because neither their extremity nor the clothes they're wearing compress to close off blood vessels. You can't move their clothing, or cut it away, to bandage a wound, and you can't even pull out an arrow because the wound has likely started to close around it, or the armor gets in the way.

Strictly by RAW, and with a healthy dose of hair-splitting, potions and Heal checks are out. Logically, you could use oils because they're topical, and they just wouldn't take effect until the Time Stop wears off.

[Tvtyrant]

'Implied' means next to nothing in a RAW discussion.

What purpose does a RAW discussion have at this point? By raw Pun Pun functions, and the game doesn't.

I would suggest that the effect of healing people with a skill check is really freaking minor at the power level of time stop, so I would allow it.

[atemu1234]

What purpose does a RAW discussion have at this point? By raw Pun Pun functions, and the game doesn't.

All RAW is not Pun-Pun. Don't be ridiculous.

We're talking about something that is fundamental to the game - the rules.

[Eisfalken]

Regarding the legality of using potions this way during time stop, since there is no actual RAW covering this, it seems left up to DM fiat.

First off... how in the gods' names are you making sure that their mouths are open AND their heads are tilted back to allow it to slide into their stomachs once normal time resumes? Even being generous and giving a 50/50 chance of both those things being true, you still only have about a 25% chance overall. And stingy DMs can easily justify lowering that chance even more; I'd probably give it 20% at best, 5% at worst.

Secondly, while I might agree that time stop doesn't stop you from pouring a potion down someone's gullet, I definitely would say that the potion doesn't take any effect until normal time resumes. That only makes sense: either the potion itself is still in stopped time, or it enters normal time when unattended. Either way, the effects aren't taken until after the character using said potions reenters normal time.

As for Heal, I'd have to say negatory to that flat-out. If we're going to ride the RAW Bandwagon, then nothing actually says you can't use a Heal check to look at a target through a crystal ball and stabilize them. Yet... on PHB pg. 65 there is a section that says "Practically Impossible Tasks" that actually covers this kind of thing.

The DM decides what is actually impossible and what is merely practically impossible. Characters with very high skill modifiers are capable of accomplishing incredible, almost unbelievable tasks, just as characters with very high combat bonuses are.
Sensible DMs will quickly realize that Heal can't be used through a crystal ball as stated above, and simply shrug and say, "Nope, you can't do that." Same general logic applies to time stop, since it requires interacting and potentially moving or otherwise altering a target, their clothes, and even their very flesh (all of which is off-limits specifically via RAW in the spell description).

Though I suppose if a DM did rule you can use Heal via remote divination sensors, then all logic is off the table and you can certainly perform first aid on someone frozen in time. Forget about Pun-Pun; I'll just break the game economy with the ladder/10-ft.-pole trick and call it a night, done and done.

[Hiro Quester]

the clear purpose of Time stop[ is to enable you to buff yourself, cast BC spells, etc to prepare the area.

But no spell or action can affect another player or NPC. Though if it has lingering effects those continue to operate. A wall of fire does not burn them until the TS ends.

So if you drop the ceiling on a group, they take no damage from the falling rocks, but are perhaps trapped in the rubble when the time stop ends.

So they could not drink a potion (they cannot act and cannot be affected by tour actions). But perhaps --DM's call-- you could put the potion in your party member's mouth. But there's a chance that they spit out the liquid, rather than swallow it, when the time stop ends.

[Tvtyrant]

All RAW is not Pun-Pun. Don't be ridiculous.

We're talking about something that is fundamental to the game - the rules.

They are fundamental as far as they facilitate fairness and fun.

[A_S]

They are fundamental as far as they facilitate fairness and fun.
Seems like context is important here. This is a thread tagged "Rules Q&A." Thus, seems to me that RAW-literalist responses are appropriate.

If somebody wants to run Time Stop with some house rules to make it act more intuitively, that's fine...but it seems silly to call people out for not assuming house rules in a "Rules Q&A" thread.

[Segev]

Regarding the legality of using potions this way during time stop, since there is no actual RAW covering this, it seems left up to DM fiat.I disagree. Time stop explicitly says you cannot use spells on other creatures. Potions are spell effects used on the imbiber. They therefore cannot be used (successfully) on creatures other than yourself while you are time stopped.

[torrasque666]

Funny thing, with all this talk about using potions on other people... AFAIK, there are no rules for doing so. At best, you get the rules for using them on unconscious people. But those not effected by a Time Stop aren't exactly unconscious now are they? Just really, really slow.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Funny thing, with all this talk about using potions on other people... AFAIK, there are no rules for doing so. At best, you get the rules for using them on unconscious people. But those not effected by a Time Stop aren't exactly unconscious now are they? Just really, really slow.
Maybe you need to start a grapple first, before you can pour a potion into someone's mouth. That would be impossible inside a time stop, since grappling is an attack.

[Quertus]

If you throw a fireball, it won't damage anyone while you have time stop running. If you use delayed blast fireball, however, it can damage people if it explodes after the time stop has ended. Whether it (a delayed-blast fireball you cast while under the effects of time stop) should even count down or not during the time stop is questionable.

Applying this to potions... you cannot affect anyone with a potion while under the effects of a time stop. But, if you dump the potion in their mouth while under the effects of time stop... if their mouth is open, if the contents of the potion will fit in their mouth, if they don't drown from the sudden influx of liquid... then there's no reason why the potion shouldn't have its normal affects once time resumes.

Although how gravity (or magnetism or breathing or vision - or any other force/action that should inherently involve affecting not just you but other objects) works while within time stop defies modern science and most reason, so expect things to break down at some point if you look at them too closely.

[Red Fel]

A monk in the party has recently acquired an item allowing him to stop time for 2 rounds like the spell.

Does the item look like this?

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/8/86/Stone_Mask.png

And does the Monk look like this?

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/profiles/icons/big/000/241/135/5cf.gif

Because if he does this...

https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/e/e0/Za_warudo.gif

Then your campaign might just get cracked open like an eggshell.

Or, at least, it would, if he weren't playing a Monk.

Point is, you can't affect any targets directly, in any meaningful way, during a Time Stop. For example:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/525/424/d36.gif

But replace far too many knives with potions. You'd have to wait until after the Time Stop ended.