Summoner build advice

[Rofltrollcopter]

Hi everyone, I've been invited to join a Pathfinder game and I'm interested in building a Summoner. I have experience with 3.5, but none with Pathfinder, so I would appreciate some advice.

For my character concept, I want to play as a 'Feral Child', someone who has fallen trough the cracks of society in a large city and spent the formative years of their life interacting with otherworldly beings. As a result, they don't quite 'get' regular people, and as a result their behavior seems strange by the standards of others. Think River Tam from Firefly or Rachel from Worm.

Due to concerns about game balance, the GM has requested that I use either the Unchained Summoner or the Synthesist. I want to use the Synthesist for an RP perspective, because it blurs the line between the Eidolon and the summoner, implying that there is something 'other' about the summoner. I really want to like the Synthesist, but it seems to be substantially weaker then the base summoner, just due to the fact that it loses Eidilon feats, skill points, and action economy advantage from having the summoner and eidolon be distinct entities. I also want to build an eidolon that can function as a sneak, and I don't see a way to do that with the synthesist since they don't get stealth as a class skill.

My question for the Playground is, is there a way that I can build a synthesist such that it can function as effectively in combat as a regular eidolon and serve as a party sneak?

[Spore]

Personal opinion first:


For my character concept, I want to play as a 'Feral Child', someone who has fallen trough the cracks of society in a large city and spent the formative years of their life interacting with otherworldly beings. As a result, they don't quite 'get' regular people, and as a result their behavior seems strange by the standards of others.

This honestly sounds more like a Feral Hunter ( http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedClassGuide/classOptions/hunter.html ) to me, because some of your skill utility comes explicitly from social skills whereas your character probably has more survival skills (aka more skill points) and is wisdom based (noticing your enemy first!). This blurs the line between man and beast until you gain the ability to shapechange. Why no druid? Because I feel full casting warrants training and your backstory feels like he stumbled into his primal side.

Other than that:


Due to concerns about game balance, the GM has requested that I use either the Unchained Summoner or the Synthesist.

Sadly the Unchained version doesn't give you any nature themed eidolon short of Agathions and Elementals. This would more or less by a very mystical and philosophical approach to the topic. That's why I would prefer the Naturalist Summoner from Advanced Class Guide.

She changes Summon Monster for Nature's Ally and gives you Animal Focus (although these are probably even more powerful than the baseline summoner).

Other than that:


My question for the Playground is, is there a way that I can build a synthesist such that it can function as effectively in combat as a regular eidolon and serve as a party sneak?

The problem with the balancing lies in the flight evolution and the size increase as well as the ridiculous amount of natural attacks an Eidolon can have. I feel if you keep your Eidolon medium-sized (with the occasional Enlarge Person spell) and give it the Fly spell instead of wings, a good chunk of abuse is cut out.

As far as party sneak goes, just give it max ranks, class skill, the skilled (Stealth) evolution and have yourself a rogue substitute that has Rank + 11 (+ Dex) in Stealth. Most prominent on 1st level when the Eidolon has +12 on Stealth where a Goblin Rogue should have +9.

[Snowbluff]

Yes.

First off, getting the class skill is easily for the +3. Just look up traits that give the skill. There's a trait for trap finding too.

Second, take the skilled evolution for stealth, and maybe one for perception.

Third, take a couple points of int for a few more skill points.

Probably build a quadruped or serpent based eidolon for better fed. Grow some arms, take weapon finesse and a fez to damage feat maybe.

[avr]

A synthesist + fused eidolon is weaker than a summoner + standard eidolon for the reasons you give, but the standard variant can sometimes run into the problem where the eidolon goes into the thick of the melee and the summoner hangs back, then the summoner gets massacred by an ambush. That won't happen to you.

Plus, the summoner gets more feats than any eidolon; sometimes it's more valuable to have 5 feats on the guy in combat than 3 on the guy in combat, 5 on the one in the back rank. Especially true if you're going for dex to damage as snowbluff suggests.

[stanprollyright]

It's pretty reasonable to build your eidolon as more skillmonkey than fighter, relying on Summon Monster for fights. The Skilled evolution is great, Scent is great. Flight is amazing (note: it's cheaper to spend 2 points on wings and 1 point on Skilled (fly) than it is to spend 4 points on supernatural flight). Eventually you can get Blindsense and Blindsight, but these are really expensive. If you use weapons rather than natural attacks you can still be a good fused combatant and have plenty of points for skills and utility abilities. I would not recommend the Dex route simply because you don't have that many feats. You need Augment Summoning and Superior Summoning if summons are to be your go-to for combat.

[Rofltrollcopter]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I wasn't aware that there were traits that granted skill proficiency, or that in Pathfinder you got feats at every odd level. This does alleviate my concerns significantly.

I still have a few questions, the way I read it right now, The Synthesate Summoner wouldn't be able to get feats that a normal Eidiolon would be able to qualify for (e.g. Improved natural attack), is there a way to get around the prerequisites?

Also @ Snowbluff, what do you mean by 'fed' and 'fez'?

[Iceheart2112]

I think he got hit with autocorrect and meant "Dex" with both of them.

[Mindtour]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I wasn't aware that there were traits that granted skill proficiency, or that in Pathfinder you got feats at every odd level. This does alleviate my concerns significantly.

I still have a few questions, the way I read it right now, The Synthesate Summoner wouldn't be able to get feats that a normal Eidiolon would be able to qualify for (e.g. Improved natural attack), is there a way to get around the prerequisites?

Also @ Snowbluff, what do you mean by 'fed' and 'fez'?

The way that I've seen qualifying for feats worked is that the Summoner qualifies for the feats while fused. Of course, she no longer qualifies for them in base form, which means that she will not be able to use them in base form. When she "suits up"? Fair game.

[Snowbluff]

Also @ Snowbluff, what do you mean by 'fed' and 'fez'?


I think he got hit with autocorrect and meant "Dex" with both of them.

No, I mean federal and fez. Corrupt government structures and useless hats are vital to high GPS.
http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b630/Snowbluff/ezgif.com-resize_zps5ffsqirj.gif
Don't you know anything about the game?! Jees!

[grarrrg]

...fez to damage...

Someone please make this a thing.

[Snowbluff]

Someone please make this a thing.

I'm making a gif for you.