Psi-caster learns all powers through erudite level?

[achapiro]

Just wanted to run a simple idea through you guys.

Let's say I start a character with a level in a psionic class that isn't Psion (e.g. Wilder/Ardent/). I then take 2 levels of Erudite.

According to the text of Erudite:
"If a character with erudite levels gains at least as many levels in another psionic class as he has in his erudite class, he permanently loses the ability to add additional powers"

I continue to take a number of PRCs that give +1 casting per level until level 20, applying the progression to the other (non-erudite) class. Given the level requirements, one could take 3 levels of something like human paragon and lose another CL.
The final sheet would be (for example):
Wilder 1
Erudite 2
PRCs 17 (added CL >15)

Now as far as I can tell, no psionic casting class has >= levels as erudite, so I should still be able to learn any spell or power using the erudite mechanics.

Some advantages:
- can cast off of any stat, not just INT;
- can cast spontaneously, without having to limit yourself to only 11 distinct spells per day max;
- get psicrystal affinity and extra feats or ACFs from both erudite and whatever other class you picked.

Some disadvantages:
- lose at least 2 CL (up front, so bad at low levels);

If optimized in a way that no more than one CL is lost from level 3 onward, one could end up with a CL17 caster that can spontaneously cast any psionic/arcane spell he managed to learn from other casters.

Of course I realize one could have just gone straight wizard/sorcerer without losing the CL, but then you may lose the versatility of spontaneous spellcasting/knowing a bunch of spells :)

Any thoughts on this idea or how to improve it?

[Flickerdart]

This doesn't really give you any advantage over straight Erudite. They learn the same amount of powers that Psions to, which is over twice as much as anyone else gets.

The UPD limit is bypassed easily by using Metaconcert anyway.

[achapiro]

This doesn't really give you any advantage over straight Erudite. They learn the same amount of powers that Psions to, which is over twice as much as anyone else gets.
I guess they can learn as many powers as they want (more than straight psion), which is the advantage. The ACF also allows you to learn arcane spells, which is neat.



The UPD limit is bypassed easily by using Metaconcert anyway.
How does this work? Do I metaconcert with another psionic in the group?
If there is no other psionic member in the group, what can be done?

[Flickerdart]

I guess they can learn as many powers as they want (more than straight psion), which is the advantage. The ACF also allows you to learn arcane spells, which is neat.

Advantage over Erudite, I mean.



How does this work? Do I metaconcert with another psionic in the group?
If there is no other psionic member in the group, what can be done?
Have your psicrystal take Hidden Talent. It now has a PP reserve and is a psionic creature. Every time you use metaconcert, you create a new gestalt entity that manifests the powers from your mind. You merely direct the entity, and are not the actual manifester. The entity is undone when the power ends.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The manifesting is seperate, so you won't be able to learn any powers because the highest level you can manifest as an Erudite is 1.

[achapiro]

Have your psicrystal take Hidden Talent. It now has a PP reserve and is a psionic creature. Every time you use metaconcert, you create a new gestalt entity that manifests the powers from your mind. You merely direct the entity, and are not the actual manifester. The entity is undone when the power ends.

Hmm, makes sense... You still need to expend 9PP every CL minutes though :D

There's also the other (smaller) advantages like casting off of WIS/CHA, getting overchannel or mantles or some such...

[achapiro]

The manifesting is seperate, so you won't be able to learn any powers because the highest level you can manifest as an Erudite is 1.

What's the source for it being separate? I thought this would always work, same as with the power points...

[Flickerdart]

There's also the other (smaller) advantages like casting off of WIS/CHA, getting overchannel or mantles or some such...
"Waste XP on powers you could learn for free" isn't an advantage. INT is the best casting stat anyway, Overchannel is a feat (which is better than Wild Surge, or you can go Anarchic Initiate to get Wild Surge for free), and mantle abilities are all weaker than Cleric domain powers.

[Rubik]

"Waste XP on powers you could learn for free" isn't an advantage. INT is the best casting stat anyway, Overchannel is a feat (which is better than Wild Surge, or you can go Anarchic Initiate to get Wild Surge for free), and mantle abilities are all weaker than Cleric domain powers.Well, it's far easier to boost Wis, given a certain spell that druids get, and ardent has two ridiculously powerful ACFs, one of which is especially abusable. And it's fully possible to abuse the ardent's manifesting mechanic beyond nearly any other mechanic in the game. Combine a level in ardent with Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) with a friendly StP erudite and Psychic Chirurgery, and you can have All The Things with only a single level. Of course, those extra nine levels are rather worth it, if you abuse dominant ideal to its fullest.

Normally, I despise ardent, but it has the highest abuse potential out of any psionic class, which are, themselves, top of the line for class abuse, making ardent the most abusable class in the game.

[sleepyphoenixx]

What's the source for it being separate? I thought this would always work, same as with the power points...


While you maintain a single reserve of power points from your class, race, and feat selections, you are still limited by the manifester level you have achieved with each power you know.

The wording is a little unclear, but the XPH has an example that removes any doubt (the SRD doesn't).