Rogue/Druid Prestige Class

[ComaVision]

Disclaimer: I'm not currently making a character, it just occurred to me that I didn't know any prestige classes for this.

Are there any prestige classes that progress divine casting and sneak attack, with an intended rogue & druid entry? I'm aware of most/all of the rogue/cleric ones but wasn't able to google up any rogue/druid ones. I play 3.5 but would be interested to hear if Pathfinder has any as well.

[Troacctid]

Daggerspell Shaper.

[Rebel7284]

Daggerspell Shaper.

While this is true, I will point out that there aren't any GOOD prestige classes for this.

[Troacctid]

You could use the Gestalt Theurge prestige class from my signature. :smallcool:

Dragon Magazine also has the Swift Avenger feat for combining Druid and Scout, which is pretty close.

[Palanan]

Fochlucan Lyrist is partway there, with intended rogue and druid entry and the progression of druid spellcasting. The feat Shaping Focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/shaping-focus) from Ultimate Magic would help advance wildshape, so it's just sneak attack that lags behind.

[Theodred theOld]

I've always thought that rogues and druids don't really mix that well. Most Druids love wild shape and spells, both of which require levels to use. Rogues love d6. Can't get enough of them. These also(mostly) require levels, either in rogue or some other class or PrC to get. I have not yet found a class that grants any good combination of SA, casting progression and/or wild shape although I admit I haven't read much PF stuff. There's also the issue of metal gear. Not the game but rather the stuff you carry. I suppose a rogue could operate without metal but I would miss cheap throwing daggers and masterwork tools to boost disable checks and I'm not sure having a few low to mid level druid spells and a disposable wolf would be a consolation.

[ComaVision]

I've always thought that rogues and druids don't really mix that well. Most Druids love wild shape and spells, both of which require levels to use. Rogues love d6. Can't get enough of them. These also(mostly) require levels, either in rogue or some other class or PrC to get. I have not yet found a class that grants any good combination of SA, casting progression and/or wild shape although I admit I haven't read much PF stuff. There's also the issue of metal gear. Not the game but rather the stuff you carry. I suppose a rogue could operate without metal but I would miss cheap throwing daggers and masterwork tools to boost disable checks and I'm not sure having a few low to mid level druid spells and a disposable wolf would be a consolation.

Druids are proficient with daggers so that's not an issue.

It's definitely an odd match up but practically everything has some support in 3.5e so I didn't think this would be an exception. I might give the Daggerspell Shaper a shot at some point, as my group is usually not that optimized.

[Drynwyn]

I've always thought that rogues and druids don't really mix that well. Most Druids love wild shape and spells, both of which require levels to use. Rogues love d6. Can't get enough of them. These also(mostly) require levels, either in rogue or some other class or PrC to get. I have not yet found a class that grants any good combination of SA, casting progression and/or wild shape although I admit I haven't read much PF stuff. There's also the issue of metal gear. Not the game but rather the stuff you carry. I suppose a rogue could operate without metal but I would miss cheap throwing daggers and masterwork tools to boost disable checks and I'm not sure having a few low to mid level druid spells and a disposable wolf would be a consolation.

Druids can use metal weapons, though. The only restriction is that they can't use metal armor, which most rogues won't be using anyway.

Hell, there's no actual rule against a druid wearing 50 bazillion pieces of metal jewelry or carrying around his max light load in metal stuff. So long as he's not actually wearing metal that counts as armor, his casting will work juuuuuuuuuuust fine.

[Theodred theOld]

So I guess my only real problem with the combo is giving up levels of druid to get skill points and SA.:D

[Nifft]

So I guess my only real problem with the combo is giving up levels of druid to get skill points and SA.:D

Swordsage 2 might qualify via Assassin's Stance. That's only 2 levels lost, and you get Wis to AC in Light armor as a perk. (Plus free Weapon Focus, 2 Stances and 7 Maneuvers.)

Something like... Sworsage 1 / Druid 8 / Swordsage 2 / Daggerspell Shaper 10

[Rebel7284]

You can get Assasin's Stance with two feats instead of losing levels to Swordsage.

[Zombulian]

You could use the Gestalt Theurge prestige class from my signature. :smallcool:

Dragon Magazine also has the Swift Avenger feat for combining Druid and Scout, which is pretty close.

Holy crap. Swift Hunter looks like garbage compared to this, and the worst part is, you could be a Deadly Hunter Druid with this feat and then pick up Swift Hunter as well to get around creatures with immunity to precision damage.

[Warrnan]

So it's not really a prestige class but here's what I typically do if I want to hybrid rogue or scout with anything. I take able learner and one level of those classes in order to keep the skill monkey function with a class like druid.

Sure it sets you back one caster level and sets a feat on fire but now your standard adventuring party can be rogue1/druidX, cleric, crusader, wizard; or rogue1/wizardX, warblade, cleric, druid.

If you like to stab people in the back, grab the feat craven to go along with your 1d6. It scales with your levels. Perhaps grab martial study (whatever) and martial stance (assasin's stance) for 2d6 more along with bracers of murder and many other rogue magic items.

Lots of stealthy wildshape forms have many attacks. This works nicely with sneak attack.

[nedz]

Spellwarp Sniper.
I have quite a nice build based around this.

Also, consider the spell Sandblast: ordinarily meh, Spellwarped this becomes Stun no save.

[Nifft]

You can get Assasin's Stance with two feats instead of losing levels to Swordsage.
... at level 12.

So you can't finish the 10-level prestige class.

At that point, why bother? Just be a Druid with one or two Martial Stances.


Spellwarp Sniper.
Interesting idea.

This could be brutal, if you don't mind throwing away Wild Shape.

[Rebel7284]

... at level 12.

So you can't finish the 10-level prestige class.

At that point, why bother? Just be a Druid with one or two Martial Stances.


You qualify at level 10, so if you can get a feat then (trivial at high optimization, more difficult at lower optimization) you can finish the PrC. :)

[nedz]

... at level 12.


Spellwarp Sniper.

Interesting idea.

This could be brutal, if you don't mind throwing away Wild Shape.

The obvious build is Rogue 1 / Druid 5 / Spellwarp Sniper 5 / ...

Spellwarp Sniper is only a 5 level PrC, and you could then back into Druid.
If you wanted Wildshape earlier you could delay entry a level instead.

Rogue 1 / Druid 6 / Spellwarp Sniper 5 / Daggerspell Shaper 8
or
Rogue 1 / Druid 5 / Spellwarp Sniper 5 / Druid +1 / Daggerspell Shaper 8

Unfortunately you can't use the Scout trick with Spellwarp Sniper, though you can with Daggerspell Shaper

Of course you could just swap Wildshape for an ACF and not worry about it.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Per the PHB class selection comes before feat selection in the level up process, so no even if you can get a feat at level 10 (which short of DFCS isn't that easy AFAIK). Even then you are a freaking druid, you can take the CL hit and it won't matter that much in the long run, that is of course assuming low to mid OP level, because if you are playing in a high OP campaign, why are you even considering loosing CLs?

[ngilop]

I made this rogue/druid PrC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?233504-Deadly-Claw-of-The-Hunt-PrC-Please-Critique) and its heavily more rogue than druid and most will hate due to the low spell progression it gains.

[eggynack]

I made this rogue/druid PrC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?233504-Deadly-Claw-of-The-Hunt-PrC-Please-Critique) and its heavily more rogue than druid and most will hate due to the low spell progression it gains.
It is a pretty big problem. Casting progression is pretty much the first thing I look at when evaluating a druid PrC, coming even over such critical factors as prerequisites or special abilities. You can, of course, always pull off three levels of whatever progression you want after level 17, because every piece of druid progression becomes much less relevant at that point, but even there the competition is rather harsh.

Honestly, my biggest critique is probably the prerequisites. Because of the massive caster level loss, it's hard to think of this as a druid prestige class, where it would probably be fine as a rogue prestige class. Like it or not, the pain of ditching phenomenal cosmic power creates a feeling of badness that transcends any objective assessment of class power level. Thus, you may do well to get rid of the wild shape prerequisite, and instead use some lower level druid things, like woodland stride or nature sense, and then set up the class to give wild shape on its own. The overall setup becomes rogue with cool druid powers rather than crappy druid that gets mediocre rogue powers, which is a better offering.

As for the main topic at hand, I think I agree that spellwarp sniper is better than daggerspell shaper. Beyond ditching extra casting, daggerspell shaper suffers from being really boring. You get a couple of abilities that let you use daggers while doing whatever, but that just doesn't seem all that useful when massive claws are right there, and the other abilities, fast and enhanced wild shape, are just lame versions of things you can already do trivially with items.

With spellwarp sniper, meanwhile, I can't tell what you're actually getting out of ray conversions, cause I've never looked at the druid spell list with an eye to that kinda thing, but at least it's halfway interesting. And, honestly, the loss of wild shape isn't that big of a deal. There's a variety of items that can boost your effective wild shape level, if you need it, but your druid can easily live a happy and fulfilling life while only being able to turn into a fleshraker without also being able to go polar bear. The real ultimate goal for a druid, where wild shape is concerned, is 15 levels, cause that's where huge comes online. With items in hand, such a goal is quite reachable even with some advancement lost to sneak attack goals. I'm not entirely convinced that this class is a good thing for druids, because the main ability of the class might not be especially compatible with the list, but you're losing one less caster level and at least doing something cool.

[nedz]

I did some analysis of useful Druid spells for this concept. I've only looked at spell levels 1-5 so far.
Not all of these are Warpable, but enough are. Some are also quite strange when warped.
There are some useful scouting/utility spells also.

# Air $ Sonic £ Electric ! Fire @ Cold ^ Force
1st Magic Stone, Eyes of the Avoral, Vine Strike, Sandblast
2nd Saltray, Listening Lorecall, Splinterbolt
3rd $Thunderous Roar, Forestfold, #Haboob, Junglerazer
4th !Flame Strike, Essence of the Raptor, £Arc of Lightning, @Boreal Wind, ^Vortex of Teeth, Hurtling Stone
5th Sirine's Grace, Quill Blast

As previously noted Sandblast is quite broken when warped.

[atemu1234]

I'm going to homebrew one of these now... because it is fun.