Wizard Spells

[glitterbaby]

Hey all I'm looking for some good suggestions on Wizard spells for a level 15 wizard. No banned schools but the biggest issue I've been running into is our enemies having ridiculous saves. Our DM has resorted to taking higher CR monsters to challenge the party so all their saves are too high for me to not be laughed at throwing save-or-sucks around.

Thanks in advance!

[Inevitability]

Forcecage is useful as a no-save, just suck spell. It basically takes one enemy out of the fight entirely. That is, unless they can teleport.

Buffing your allies is always a good tactic, especially when facing strong opponents.

Also, try summoning. A summon might go down in one hit, but it can still act as a disposable barrier between you and your enemies.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Check out the God Wizard Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1146876), particularly the sample prepared spell lists.

Get a note card, write on it each creature type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm), which knowledge skill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm) is used to identify it, which base saves are good/poor for racial HD of that type, what immunities all creatures of that type automatically get (mind-affecting, critical hits/stunning, Fort saves that don't affect objects, etc.), any special vulnerabilities creatures may have (dismissal), and anything else you think would be important. Put at least one rank in every one of those Knowledge skills, so you're automatically entitled to a knowledge check to recognize every creature you encounter. Remember that most D&D Wizards are exponentially smarter than any actual person who's ever existed, and would have definitely studied up on various types of living things and what their strengths and vulnerabilities are. Something that you would need to look at on this card is something that your character would easily be able to recall from memory. Have spells that target each different save (Wall of Smoke, Grease, Color Spray at 1st, Cloud of Bewilderment, Web, Glitterdust at 2nd, etc.) and use the one that most opponents will have a weak base save against.

For NPCs, if they have heavy armor they have a poor Reflex save. If they have martial weapons they have a good Fort save and probably a poor Will save. If they're wearing light armor they probably have a good Reflex save but either Fort or Will or both is poor. If they have any kind of spell component pouch or divine focus they have a good Will save. If they're unarmored and not using spells they're a Monk and you shouldn't let them start their turn adjacent to anyone.

If you're up against a whole lot of Dragons and Outsiders and other opponents with no poor saves, spells that don't allow a saving throw like Solid Fog and Freezing Fog, Reverse Gravity, Wall of Force, etc. can be useful. Buffing your party is always a great option, depending on the characters. Metamagic feats like Fell Drain and Fell Frighten with damage spells that don't miss like Kelgore's Grave Miss and Magic Missile can be extremely effective as long as the opponent isn't outright immune to the effects. Have your party use Spell Storing weapons, get a pile of +1 Spell Storing Arrows (they can't be found as random loot but there's nothing prohibiting their creation), and put (Lesser Rod of) Maximized Shivering Touch in Frostburn in those, which deals 18 Dex damage with no saving throw. Anything with Dex 0 is incapacitated and incapable of moving, and can be easily finished off at your leisure.

[Flickerdart]

Hey all I'm looking for some good suggestions on Wizard spells for a level 15 wizard. No banned schools but the biggest issue I've been running into is our enemies having ridiculous saves. Our DM has resorted to taking higher CR monsters to challenge the party so all their saves are too high for me to not be laughed at throwing save-or-sucks around.

Thanks in advance!
What's your party like? There are basically three things for a caster to do in combat.


Cast spells upon your allies. If you have many meat-type allies, buffing them is an excellent use of your time. Opening with quickened haste is a cheap way to make your guys more effective.
Make allies. Summon monster is all right if you're optimized for it, but you generally want something more intimidating than vrocks at your level. Remember that chained polymorph any object is a great way to turn your 1d4+1 summoned rhinos into dragons.
Make enemies into corpses. Debuffs typically get shut down by saves or immunities, but no immunity will stop a split ray spellwarped cyclonic blast from wrecking faces. Speaking of spellwarping, quickened spellwarped frost breath is a great no-save daze lock.

[glitterbaby]

What's your party like? There are basically three things for a caster to do in combat.


Cast spells upon your allies. If you have many meat-type allies, buffing them is an excellent use of your time. Opening with quickened haste is a cheap way to make your guys more effective.
Make allies. Summon monster is all right if you're optimized for it, but you generally want something more intimidating than vrocks at your level. Remember that chained polymorph any object is a great way to turn your 1d4+1 summoned rhinos into dragons.
Make enemies into corpses. Debuffs typically get shut down by saves or immunities, but no immunity will stop a split ray spellwarped cyclonic blast from wrecking faces. Speaking of spellwarping, quickened spellwarped frost breath is a great no-save daze lock.


Party is my wizard, an arctic orc half-clay-golem (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/halfgolem.shtml) dawnblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?190289-3-5-Dawnblade-the-duskblade-s-paladin), a VoP Cleric, and an Exalted Druid. The cleric started as a healbot, is not a Radiant Servant that'll occasionally throw down a Flame Strike and the Druid wild shapes into a blink dog and tries to enter melee without self-buffing. The party largely relies on my character for all it's magical support. We use to have another wizard that leaned towards offense before he left for law school (the player that is).

I'm not super keen on Forcecage or anything like that I'd spam due to the costly material component. It's doable but we're actually really low on WBL in the party and my character owes the dwarf king a ton of money (needed a loan to make the Dawnblade a half-golem).

Edit: Is NOW a Radiant Servant

[Beheld]

If you DM is committed to using single monsters of higher level spells, consider Wrathful Castigation, which forces a Fort save or die, and then even if they succeed, a Will save or Dazed for 15+ rounds. Daze means no actions. It is mind affecting and a compulsion, but not a death effect, so it might help against some high level enemies.

Otto's Irressitable Dance offers no save. Maze offers no save but is based on Int, depending on opposition those can help.

Avasculate does half their HP, so if you go first, you can do more HP damage than anyone else by default against a single foe. Also has a save versus stun. Combo with Power Word Stun next round, and while it uses up some high level slots, anyone under 300Hp is now stunned for a long time.

Banishment doesn't care what their saves are, because it says "You can improve the spell’s chance of success by presenting at least one object or substance that the target hates, fears, or otherwise opposes. For each such object or substance, you gain a +1 bonus on your caster level check to overcome the target’s spell resistance (if any), the saving throw DC increases by 2." But no limit on one such item, so carry around a prayer string with every holy symbol of every god in the setting and add to it dead pieces of demons and devils and angels, and get +30 to the DC, and banish away anything without planeshift for a free "win" against outsiders. No loot, but you won the fight. Though better from a Cleric.

Grasping Hand is an underrated Grappler against a lot of Medium to Huge monsters, because it will win those grapple checks, and unlike something like Forcecage, if they spend a standard action teleporting out, it just flies over and grapples again.

Fleshshiver is a great spell if you have some serious CL juice going on and fight mostly monsters with HD around your actual level instead of giant piles of HD. No save stun, and damage and a save versus nausea.

Glass Strike undead and contstructs, since they will have low fort saves, and this is basically just flesh to stone that works on all constructs and undead.

Stun Ray is a no save stun for at least one round, and Stun causes people to drop what they are holding, so this can be really handy when the fighter picks up the balor's vorpal sword and whip.

Freezing Fog is Solid Fog + Penalties + Grease + Cold damage, consider invisible (+0 Metamagic) Freezing Fog to let your Rogue SA then while they are trapped and balancing.

Acid Fog is a staple.

[glitterbaby]

If you DM is committed to using single monsters of higher level spells, consider Wrathful Castigation, which forces a Fort save or die, and then even if they succeed, a Will save or Dazed for 15+ rounds. Daze means no actions. It is mind affecting and a compulsion, but not a death effect, so it might help against some high level enemies.

Otto's Irressitable Dance offers no save. Maze offers no save but is based on Int, depending on opposition those can help.

Avasculate does half their HP, so if you go first, you can do more HP damage than anyone else by default against a single foe. Also has a save versus stun. Combo with Power Word Stun next round, and while it uses up some high level slots, anyone under 300Hp is now stunned for a long time.

Banishment doesn't care what their saves are, because it says "You can improve the spell’s chance of success by presenting at least one object or substance that the target hates, fears, or otherwise opposes. For each such object or substance, you gain a +1 bonus on your caster level check to overcome the target’s spell resistance (if any), the saving throw DC increases by 2." But no limit on one such item, so carry around a prayer string with every holy symbol of every god in the setting and add to it dead pieces of demons and devils and angels, and get +30 to the DC, and banish away anything without planeshift for a free "win" against outsiders. No loot, but you won the fight. Though better from a Cleric.

Grasping Hand is an underrated Grappler against a lot of Medium to Huge monsters, because it will win those grapple checks, and unlike something like Forcecage, if they spend a standard action teleporting out, it just flies over and grapples again.

Fleshshiver is a great spell if you have some serious CL juice going on and fight mostly monsters with HD around your actual level instead of giant piles of HD. No save stun, and damage and a save versus nausea.

Glass Strike undead and contstructs, since they will have low fort saves, and this is basically just flesh to stone that works on all constructs and undead.

Stun Ray is a no save stun for at least one round, and Stun causes people to drop what they are holding, so this can be really handy when the fighter picks up the balor's vorpal sword and whip.

Freezing Fog is Solid Fog + Penalties + Grease + Cold damage, consider invisible (+0 Metamagic) Freezing Fog to let your Rogue SA then while they are trapped and balancing.

Acid Fog is a staple.

Acid Fog is going directly into the rotation.

A quick question on Glass Strike: why is it allowed to be used on undead/constructs? I was under the impression they had a blanket immunity to fort saves unless otherwise specified.

I've looked at Avasculate before but I'm Good and in a party with two Exalted so I decided against it.

I'd jump on Fleshshiver but we're actually caught in that exact situation. Monsters thrown at us are higher CR so they usually have a ton of HD. The only way we get around Blasphemy and such is by flying like 70 feet away from our half-golem (magic immunity) Dawnblade.

The Cleric actually does occasionally prepare a Banishment if we're expecting Outsiders. Due to story reasons she's actually a walking relic of Pelor so she presents her right hand (Vecna rules the multiverse so its like she's the Hand of Pelor)

I'd like Grasping Hand more if not for the existence of Freedom of Movement. We don't see it too much so it'll probably go into the rotation if I have enough spell slots at 7th. The existence of Spiritjaws as a 3rd level Druid spell is also a bit of a punch to the gut of the 7th level Grasping Hand, even if it doesn't scale as well.

Irresistable Dance is great but I only get three 8th slots. One is Mind Blank and one has to be a transmutation. I've been going with Horrid Wilting lately but I might change it out.

[Flickerdart]

A quick question on Glass Strike: why is it allowed to be used on undead/constructs? I was under the impression they had a blanket immunity to fort saves unless otherwise specified.
Undead and Constructs are vulnerable to all Fort-save spells that can be used on objects.

[ComaVision]

A quick question on Glass Strike: why is it allowed to be used on undead/constructs? I was under the impression they had a blanket immunity to fort saves unless otherwise specified.


Immunity to fort saves unless the spell also effects objects, which Glass Strike does.

[glitterbaby]

Undead and Constructs are vulnerable to all Fort-save spells that can be used on objects.

Neato. So it's a Flesh-to-Stone that can be used on Undead and constructs?

Edit: Oh that's exactly what Beheld said.

[Ellowryn]

In addition to Treantmonk's guide, i also highly recommend Logic Ninja's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?104002-3-5e-The-Logic-Ninja-s-Guide-to-Wizards-Being-Batman) guide as well. It gives you a good breakdown on what spells to take along with other ways to build your character and ways to be useful in combat.

[glitterbaby]

Make enemies into corpses. Debuffs typically get shut down by saves or immunities, but no immunity will stop a split ray spellwarped cyclonic blast from wrecking faces. Speaking of spellwarping, quickened spellwarped frost breath is a great no-save daze lock.

Sorry for the split posts, I haven't yet figured out how to quote multiple things in the same post. Is spellwarped a metamagic feat? I'm unfamiliar with it completely unless you're referring to the template, which doesn't make sense in the context unless I'm misinterpreting.

[Flickerdart]

Sorry for the split posts, I haven't yet figured out how to quote multiple things in the same post. Is spellwarped a metamagic feat? I'm unfamiliar with it completely unless you're referring to the template, which doesn't make sense in the context unless I'm misinterpreting.
Spellwarping is an ability of the Spellwarp Sniper PrC, which turns AoEs into rays.

[prufock]

Can you take the Irresistible Spell feat from Kingdoms of Kalamar? It increases your save DCs by 10.

[glitterbaby]

Can you take the Irresistible Spell feat from Kingdoms of Kalamar? It increases your save DCs by 10.

Out of respect for my other friends at the gaming table I'm not going to ask my DM if I can take Irresistable Spell.

[Auron3991]

Well, if you feel like being silly, you could always shrink sections of a wall of iron, then use a crossbow to shoot them through an anti-magic field.

On a more serious note, any spell that doesn't directly affect the target. Transmutation an Conjuration are your friends here.

Transmute rock to mud (and if you feel like being cheeky, follow it up with it's reverse), stone shape, control water, and the previously mentioned wall of iron (or wall of stone) should prove useful.

And you could always resort to arcane thesis on magic missile cheese, but my DMs tend to throw books at me when I start that, so use with caution.

[glitterbaby]

Well, if you feel like being silly, you could always shrink sections of a wall of iron, then use a crossbow to shoot them through an anti-magic field.


As hilarious as it would be, I'm looking for things I could actually play. I've been leaning towards those types of spells as of late but anything I throw out that offers a save or SR, if I don't use Assay SR, is basically a wasted turn.

[Segev]

As hilarious as it would be, I'm looking for things I could actually play. I've been leaning towards those types of spells as of late but anything I throw out that offers a save or SR, if I don't use Assay SR, is basically a wasted turn.

Shrink doesn't offer SR when the spell ENDS. If the iron walls are suddenly de-magicked and at full size, there's no spell to resist on the part of those unfortunates who are catching them to the face.

Still might be an attack roll, though.

Consider solid fog, because it will let you entrap enemies in a space for a while as they can only move five ft. per round. This could hold them still long enough for you to drop a few walls of force in order to make a more permanent enclosure.

Black tentacles is also good for helping restrict enemy movement.

One thing melee types are really, really good at is dishing out damage in forms that are hard to resist. Their weaknesses tend to be in terms of GETTING to their targets, and in terms of being one-at-a-time focused. Help them. Keep the enemies coming in a virtual funnel by slowing and obstructing all but one at a time so your melee types can focus them down one by one. Buff your allies to maximize their damage and minimize their own vulnerabilities. Don't try to do the damage yourself if you don't have to; bind, restrict, and inconvenience so that the damage dealers can take their time and do their jobs right.

[glitterbaby]

Shrink doesn't offer SR when the spell ENDS. If the iron walls are suddenly de-magicked and at full size, there's no spell to resist on the part of those unfortunates who are catching them to the face.

Yeah I didn't think there would be a problem with the combo itself offering SR just that I think I'd get a few books thrown towards my head if I tried shooting people with massive walls of iron.

Edit: The other advice is useful though, thanks. I actually had Black Tentacles in my rotation but I've been running into enemies with too high numbers for opposed grapple checks to be useful.

[Auron3991]

Yeah I didn't think there would be a problem with the combo itself offering SR just that I think I'd get a few books thrown towards my head if I tried shooting people with massive walls of iron.

Eh, you're fine until you start wondering who replaced your DM's head with a beet.

In other news, power word spells might be useful if you can get the enemy in the hp range, finger of death does damage even if they save (admittedly, a small amount), and wall of fire doesn't offer a save (although it does allow SR)

Actually, if the spell has wall or fog in it's name, it'll probably be helpful.

[Rubik]

I'm not super keen on Forcecage or anything like that I'd spam due to the costly material component. It's doable but we're actually really low on WBL in the party and my character owes the dwarf king a ton of money (needed a loan to make the Dawnblade a half-golem).Planar Bind an efreeti, buff the hell out of your Cha or Diplomacy, talk it into giving you two Wishes in exchange for one made on its behalf with the explicit understanding that A.) neither of you screws the other one on Wishes, both the granting and making thereof, and B.) either you leave the option open for future similar contracts, or you agree to never Planar Bind that particular genie again so it won't be subject to being bothered on your behalf. Then use one of your Wishes to get a scroll of arcane Genesis. Plane Shift to the Astral, use the scroll to make a demiplane made of solid platinum, summon a few earth elementals to start excavating for you, and pay off your debt in pure platinum.

By your level, money ain't even a thang.

[edit] Consider Wraithstrike and Telekinesis on Shrink Item'd boulders?