Viva la Revolución (How to Start a Revolution)

[LordOfCain]

Setting: Largish town with a few hundred residents. No other towns for a couple days travel.
Goal: Start a revolution and take over.
Supplies: 300 gold, two carts, quite a few horses.
Leader: Fighter 2/Cleric 1 (Destruction and Magic Domains) (Same as in the other thread that has me asking about my build's future levels FYI)
How would I take over this town??? Three skill points for leveling.

[FocusWolf413]

Find people who share your opinions.
Make sure you trust them.
Give them weapons.
Assassinate the members of the guard and political leaders simultaneously.
Enjoy your newfound power.

I'd say it's a lot of diplomacy and gather info checks to determine who is on your side, sense motive to see if you trust them, and a small amount of money to arm them. You only really need a few weapons. Use quarterstaves and daggers. Arm them with the killed guards' weapons.

This should be a quiet coup.

[LordOfCain]

How to best utilize current supplies. (i.e. the carts/horses) and what to buy with the gold specifically.

[ylvathrall]

You really have to say more about the goal before I could provide any relevant advice. What methods are and are not permissible? What are you rebelling against? What forces do they have in place to maintain order? Do you have allies, or is it literally just the one guy trying to start a revolution? Are there conditions that would make your stated victory condition unacceptable (e.g., everyone in town is dead)?

[LordOfCain]

You really have to say more about the goal before I could provide any relevant advice. What methods are and are not permissible? What are you rebelling against? What forces do they have in place to maintain order? Do you have allies, or is it literally just the one guy trying to start a revolution? Are there conditions that would make your stated victory condition unacceptable (e.g., everyone in town is dead)?
Methods that are permissible: Any that would not completely shock the populace.
Reason of Rebellion: (Publicly: Corruption of the government Privately: Power for the leader)
Forces: Town guard/may or may not have walls
Allies: Rogue 3 would help but no killing for him.
Conditions: No killing of the entire town. At least 60% should survive and be loyal to me.

[LordOfCain]

FYI It is a core only game. What core gear would be best. Hire mercenaries or no? Etc. I want to be prepared for everything (very hard DM|typically CRs 2 or 3 above our level, e.g. 2 Minotaurs at level 2.)

[Tvtyrant]

The easiest way to do it is become part of the government in some way, arrest the leader and his too followers for treason and claim they died resisting arrest. Think Shojo's death but if Miko had been the head of the Paladins.

It works best if you follow up by expelling a minorty who was "working with" the former leader. If it is a human town throwing out the Elves, for instance, and claimibg that they were working with the former leader to make the town a protectorate of the Elven kingdoms.

[stanprollyright]

Find a bard to incite the spirit of revolution into the populous.
Find rogues to assassinate the government leaders and steal supplies.
Stage jailbreaks and/or slave-freeing events to gain loyal allies.
Find a powerful patron with dubious motives to secretly fund your rebellion. This can be a nation that is not on good terms with the current regime, or a power-hungry noble within the existing power structure, or the head of a criminal empire. Anyone with resources and an axe to grind against the government.

[LordOfCain]

Well, my party and I are like 86% elves/half-elves, but I see your point. But assume there is no way for me to get into the government.

[Flickerdart]

Setting: Largish town with a few hundred residents. No other towns for a couple days travel.
Goal: Start a revolution and take over.
Supplies: 300 gold, two carts, quite a few horses.
Leader: Fighter 2/Cleric 1 (Destruction and Magic Domains) (Same as in the other thread that has me asking about my build's future levels FYI)
How would I take over this town??? Three skill points for leveling.

A town with "a few hundred residents" is not "large-ish," it is a village. Everyone is going to know each other, and the only way you're going to be able to rule is to prop up one of the most well-liked locals and control him from behind the scenes.

[LordOfCain]

By few I mean 6-7. It was a very loose use of the word few.

[Th3N3xtGuy]

Step 1: Start a riot and when guards/police intervene find a way to initiate a massacre with the government looking like they started it
Step 2: Propaganda use that as a selling point, get influential people on your side(Never hurts to have some noble/merchant guild leader supply you with money and weapons)
Step 3: Manufacture other "incidents" that will drive more people to your cause
Step 4: Raid military armories and arm the people
Step 5: Profit?

[stanprollyright]

By few I mean 6-7. It was a very loose use of the word few.

That's still a small village. A "town" would have at least a few thousand.

[ylvathrall]

Methods that are permissible: Any that would not completely shock the populace.
Reason of Rebellion: (Publicly: Corruption of the government Privately: Power for the leader)
Forces: Town guard/may or may not have walls
Allies: Rogue 3 would help but no killing for him.
Conditions: No killing of the entire town. At least 60% should survive and be loyal to me.

Okay, with just two guys the walls don't matter. With the resources that you've got, you aren't exactly bringing an army.

The town guard may be a problem, but it's hard to say without knowing more about them. Are they competent? And more importantly, are they loyal? If they can be bribed, or if there are some of them that aren't in favor of the corrupt government, swaying them is probably going to be the fastest way to get things done.

If you can't kill people (and you can't afford to upset your sole ally, so you can't kill people), this is going to be primarily political rather than military. Keep things as bloodless as possible. You primarily need to sway the public opinion against the current government and in favor of the revolution. Based on how people think, it's probably easier to discredit the current government than to build up your own revolution. As to how you do that, framing people for heinous crimes is my favorite approach. Even with just one level of cleric, you can probably come up with ways to get people to do crazy things in public, and if the rogue can't plant false evidence he isn't worth the bother. If you can get someone else to act as the public figurehead of the revolution, build up some revolutionary sentiment, and then have the leader be martyred, that will sway people to your side and stir up violent feelings faster than just about anything else.

As far as using your resources, I'm sure there's something clever you could do with the carts and horses, but it's probably better to keep it simple. Sell them for extra cash that you can spend on bribes or equipment. You don't really need to worry too much about arming your minions with this plan, since the whole point is that you seize power peacefully by subverting the enemy's military to help you.

Also, 700 people is still pretty tiny. I grew up in a town of about 1000, and pretty much everybody knew everybody else, or at least knew of them. You're going to have a hard time coming in as a stranger and getting them to like you. Much, much easier to prop one of the locals and use them as a figurehead. If necessary you can always arrange for this person to be martyred like I mentioned above, and present yourself as their successor. Boom, instant reputation. But for the early stages, you'd have to work through a local to get public opinion on your side.

[Flickerdart]

700 people places you squarely in the "village" bracket (400-900 people). A large town will have 2000-5000 residents. Check out DMG p135 for the relevant table.

[LordOfCain]

Assume the main leader has already done something incredibly corrupt using his opulent wealth please.

[LordOfCain]

FYI I lived in the village for ~50 years (elf). Sorry for the lack of information.

[Flickerdart]

What sort of leader is he? Because if he's a feudal lord (such as a baron) or a feudal lord's representative (such as a magistrate) then the tithes he collects from the village are his to do with as he sees fit and the people generally accept it as the way things are.

[LordOfCain]

My ally is fine with his allies killing people but just will not kill people himself. (That is why this is my second character in the campaign I am playing in.)

[stanprollyright]

Well, my party and I are like 86% elves/half-elves, but I see your point. But assume there is no way for me to get into the government.

Is there a smuggling ring? Thieves' Guild? Local gang? Neighboring town on bad terms? Rich local merchant that could be persuaded? Arming a revolution costs money, as do bribes.

[LordOfCain]

Wearing a robe of useful items I could potentially sell. (7,000 gp.) Rather opposed to selling my adamantium breastplate though.

[Tvtyrant]

Well, my party and I are like 86% elves/half-elves, but I see your point. But assume there is no way for me to get into the government.

Can you become the local drug dealer/influential rich guy? Buy the only tavern, sell the villages supply of drugs, alcohol, allow gambling, be a loan shark. If everyone comes to you for their money they will do what you say, and you simply make the guy in charge listen to you. He gets rich, you become powerful, everyone wins.

You could also simply force all trade to go through you by violence, so everyone is reliant on you and your bullies to survive. Takes a lot less time to set up, but people will dislike you.

[LordOfCain]

Slings are cheap (AKA free) and so are rocks (AKA free). Thusly, it would be cheap to arm the peasants with a ranged weapon. Minor penalties may apply though.

[LordOfCain]

I do not really want to control through money. I want to control through military force. I was thinking starting a "Communist" revolution, inflating tales or starting rumors of the rulers (I think they are dukes/duchesses but am not sure) doing something with their money that is a blatant waste and tell them that it is unfair, the class system is rigged, there should be a revolution. Lots of bluff/sense motiving later, arm them with slings. That is my basic idea.

[Tvtyrant]

That might take a few centuries. Class conciousness is famously hard to instill in a population, and peasant revolts in the old sense were put down hard.

[ylvathrall]

The issue is that a military coup only works if you have, you know, a military. Peasants with slings will lose against armed and trained enemies. Your people aren't that passionate, so their morale will break pretty quickly once the first few of them are killed. Or captured and publicly executed.

Also, that still assumes you can get the people solidly on your side, which I see being difficult here. Your rhetoric just isn't going to have an easy time in a society where the aristocracy is firmly entrenched, and the people just sort of assume that they won't have much wealth or power. I don't know whether that describes your setting, but the default assumption for D&D is typically that there isn't a whole lot of equality going around. It takes a long, long time to establish the political attitudes that would make your target audience receptive to this line of rhetoric.

Oh, and is this town part of a larger political entity? Because while your peasants might be able to take over the town, they won't last long if the king sends an army to put the revolution down.

[LordOfCain]

It is part of a really loose group of towns. However, I am fairly sure that if I took over, most of the other towns wouldn't want to waste their military/gold. Most are smaller than the one I am discussing. And the town guard is really small. I was thinking about perhaps catching the guards by surprise, such as dousing the guardhouse with oil and burning it to the ground, with guards in it :smallamused:. Things like that, or using caltrops, acid, etc. to deal small amounts of damage to all of them.

[LordOfCain]

I am thinking about having a core group of 5 mercenaries to help the peasants/start the riot. Probably 4 lv. 1 warriors and 1 lv. 2 warrior.

[FocusWolf413]

Stealthily set the town and it's food reserves on fire. Blame the government when they don't help enough. People get pissed when they have no homes and no food.

[ylvathrall]

Stealthily set the town and it's food reserves on fire. Blame the government when they don't help enough. People get pissed when they have no homes and no food.

They also have a hard time fighting when they have no homes and no food. This is, at best, a very temporary solution. You're destroying the productive capacity of a town that you're planning to take over. That doesn't seem like a good way to ensure your own long-term prosperity.

[daremetoidareyo]

Go to a town over. Hire some people.

Have auditions for the best actors. Take those best actors and have them run into the town that you want to conquer. They are bedraggled. Disguise checks with as many people aiding as possible. They have stories of a hyper powerful band of unassuming warriors who rode into town, killed all of the men, took almost everyone as a wife, and are heading this way. Have them explain that it was "just x persons of intense power and evil." PC's in the town immediately criticize the town, "what is your leader going to do? Where we are from, they would at least do this or that"

Set a big big fire that night. Hire local laborers to cut you the wood to do so. You want it to reak of smoke downwind.

A second batch of slightly worse actors is sent in the next morning. Fleeing, Mad with fear they warn everyone that they can see, but just keep running. These actors throw a few alchemists fire around on their way out of town.

Town is in a panic. Now your PCs have some options. If the panic is big enough, just go kill the leadership and take over. You may need to violently kill someone in public, defile the corpse, and rub his family's faces in it. Another option is to valiantly volunteer to go take care of it. Ride away for a few days, come back battered and beaten up looking, claim to have killed them all. During your celebration ceremony, kill the leader at the apex of the evening, put your foot on his body, pick up whatever official hat he wears, and "declare this town under occupation." If the townsfolks want everything to return to normal, they just need to help you do one thing, be an army for you against XXXX. They either die for their freedom, or your characters will just start killing children and anyone else that comes against them.

Now you are hated outsiders, choose the people who hate you most to investigate the town that the refugees came from. Only to find that the town is still there. Angry, they defect and complain. Possibly try to rally some military with stories about your brutality.

Congratulations, you now have to immediately use everything from this town to violently kill the heck out of the other town. Collect all of the children and make them into soldiers. You may need to force them to make their first kills, that way they are traumatized and loyal to you. But it works like hotcakes.

What was your cause again?

[Malroth]

Buy a scroll of Illusionary script. UMD to cast it on a sign that you carry at the front of your mob. Have it's Outward appearance be of a list of greviances against the people, It's secret hidden message be "this function of the spell is useless" and it's Suggestion on viewing it be "Hey Cleric Mc Revolutionist is right lets Kick the Mayor out of town". With the will saves the population will be sporting you'll have over 70% of the town up in arms in a single round of rabble rousing.

[Evolved Shrimp]

A town with "a few hundred residents" is not "large-ish," it is a village. Everyone is going to know each other

Not to rain on your parade, but I second Flickerdart: You describe a village (or a very small town, the difference being that a village is mainly concerned with food production and a town, with trades or crafts).

Revolutions do not happen in villages, absent unusual conditions (see below) that you didn’t mention.

There are no media, there is not enough social stratification (but see below), there is no real government, just a ruler (perhaps) and a handful of guards.

You could have a coup (in which you – not “the people” – overthrow the ruler commando-style and make yourself the new ruler), if the old ruler is sufficiently disliked and you are either sufficiently liked or credibly promise to solve a longstanding problem (“As your new ruler, I will make sure that the goblin raids on your cattle stop once and for all!”) or open up new opportunities (“I’ll ensure that everybody will learn how to do magic!”).

Now for unusual conditions: You could have something like a revolution, if there is a split in the village between a small suppressing group and a large suppressed group – think Robin Hood.

In that case, you would want to simultaneously strengthen and agitate the oppressed group and weaken and/or demoralize the oppressors. Stealing from the oppressors and giving to the oppressed is a good way to do both. (But don’t overdo the giving, or the motivation to rise up will disappear… :smallwink:.)

At the right time, you would need to put yourself at the head of the mob and storm the manor (castle, garrison, …). Letting somebody else do the storming would invite the question, why you should rule after all… This would only work if you have a strong handle on whomever lead the actual overthrow.

[Yahzi]

Supplies: 300 gold, two carts, quite a few horses.

Do you have a holocaust cloak? :smallbiggrin:

As others have said, you cannot have a "revolution." At best you can have a coup, where you replace the current leaders. You can then change the government to suit yourself (which in your case sounds a lot like despotism) but it's still not a revolution.

You haven't explained how the leader of this town holds his power, so we can't tell you how to unseat him. Not that it matters; you've basically already committed yourself to violence.

In other words you're going to murder the village leader and then frighten everyone else into obedience. You can talk about how you're doing it for some noble purpose, but that will only frighten them more, since they will know you are delusional on top of being power-mad. On the plus side that describes your average medieval noble, so if you are frightening enough, and don't ask too much of them, they may let it slide. Their options are picking up weapons and killing you on the spot (but not if you're scary), or poisoning your food/hacking you to death in the middle of the night (but not if they think it won't work and you're really scary).

The other villages will most certainly care. First off half their wives are probably from your village. They have business deals there. And the other rulers are going to want to preserve their position. A two-bit thug rolling over the village authority sets a bad precedent.

Also, who does the village pay taxes to? In any kind of feudal system they will have a lord in a castle. He will view your acts as a declaration of war, and a none-honorable one at that. He will then summon his allies and bondsmen and curb-stomp you. If you're lucky you'll die in the fighting; if not, you might want to look up what "drawn and quartered" means, because it's your likely fate as a murderer, rebel, and usurper.

If you in fact kill 40% of the town, you won't have a town left. The survivors will either sneak away to live in other villages, or be so traumatized that they will become catatonic or homicidal. That amount of violent death simply shreds social contracts. No one will bother to show up for work anymore.

Assuming your elves are like humans. If they are like orcs or goblins, just straight up murder the mayor while everyone is watching. And do a lot of show-boating while you do it; let him get in the first hit and laugh, toy with him instead of finishing him off, etc. That's how you show your supreme power and convince everyone else to not challenge you.

[LordOfCain]

EDIT: I was wrong about the number of people. There are enough people to place it relatively high in the hierarchy. There is a spell caster with at least craft wondrous item, and probably 5th level, and will he might be the most powerful wizard, he sells alchemical items and magic items that people are able to buy. The rogue has studded leather armor with +5 to hide and move silently. Illusory script could work if the rogue donates a couple hundred. :smallcool:

[LordOfCain]

Just wondering, what should I put on illusory script to make it seem reasonable????

[LordOfCain]

Maybe suggesting that they go tell their friends the leaders have been squandering their wealth and the class system must fall or something of that sort???

[HunterOfJello]

Decrease the food supply so that people worry about tomorrow, blame the upper class, then assist the middle class in replacing the upper class.

[daremetoidareyo]

Decrease the food supply so that people worry about tomorrow, blame the upper class, then assist the middle class in replacing the upper class.

Found the anarchist. Get em, boys.