Side Initiative: Alert and Other Potential Issues

[DersitePhantom]

I'm a big fan of the Side Initiative variant (see page 270 of the DMG for details), in theory at least. I have yet to use for more than a one-shot at this point, but I'm going to be DMing a game that seems like it could last for quite a while and I intend to use side initiative for it. I've got the OK from the players, but I have some concerns.

Some parts of the game clearly weren't designed with such a variant in mind, and I'd like to be aware of as many as possible before they come up in-game. The most obvious one to me is the Alert feat; among other benefits, it gives a permanent +5 to initiative. Given the added value of going first under this variant, I don't want to allow this bonus to apply, so I've tentatively decided to replace that part of the feat with a +1 to Wisdom.

Are there any other features that affect or are affected by initiative in such a way that they require modification to work with side initiative?

[pwykersotz]

Suggestion: Use a halfway version. Let the players roll initiative as normal. Roll as one for the enemies. Players who roll above the enemies get the first turn. Enemies go next. Then all players go next.

[Sigreid]

Suggestion: Use a halfway version. Let the players roll initiative as normal. Roll as one for the enemies. Players who roll above the enemies get the first turn. Enemies go next. Then all players go next.

This is pretty much how my group does it.

In response to the OP, you could have Alertness simply give advantage on the initiative roll so it increases their odds, but doesn't set it in stone.

[DersitePhantom]

Suggestion: Use a halfway version. Let the players roll initiative as normal. Roll as one for the enemies. Players who roll above the enemies get the first turn. Enemies go next. Then all players go next.

The best part of side initiative for me, and the part that seemed to get my prospective players excited about it, was the ability for the PCs to work together and coordinate better. So while this is a perfectly reasonable suggestion, it would defeat the point in this situation. I probably should have specified what I liked about side initiative in the OP.

[Rhaegar14]

The best part of side initiative for me, and the part that seemed to get my prospective players excited about it, was the ability for the PCs to work together and coordinate better. So while this is a perfectly reasonable suggestion, it would defeat the point in this situation. I probably should have specified what I liked about side initiative in the OP.

As someone who has used side initiative and run into this same issue, I have to disagree, unless (maybe) half your party acting independent of the other half (not even of each other, just the half that didn't beat monster initiative) at the very beginning of the combat ruins cooperation and coordination somehow. Say you have four players. Players A and B both roll 20, the monsters roll 15, and Players C and D roll 10.

In normal initiative, it'd look like this:

Player A
Player B
Monsters
Player C
Player D
Player A
Player B
Monsters
...

All doing it that way does is let players with characters who benefit from going first -- Rogues and the like -- invest in and reap the rewards of winning initiative without that investment applying to the whole party and being disproportionately valuable. The characters that beat the monster team initiative get to go before them on turn 1, and can all act at the same time, coordinating as usual. Then the monsters go. Then from then on in the initiative cycle, all PCs act on the same turn, then all monsters act on the same turn, as normal for the side initiative variant. It's exactly the same thing except for those first few turns of round one.

[DersitePhantom]

Player A
Player B
Monsters
Player C
Player D
Player A
Player B
Monsters
...

Oh, I guess I didn't really think through what you were saying properly. Now that I understand it, I think that makes a lot of sense, and will use this method. That solves quite a number of issues, so thank you!

[JellyPooga]

Another alternative is to use the average Initiative mod of the Party. Add 'em up, divide by No. of Players and roll. That +5 from Alert will skew that average a fair bit without breaking the bank (+1.25 to party initiative for a party of 4). Obviously it has diminishing returns for larger parties, but a big group of people is harder to co-ordinate than a small one after all...

[gullveig]

I also do this in addition to the above.

- The surprising side always acts first.
- Roll the monster initiative using the best modifier and with advantage if some monster has advantage.